Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 08:36 AM	Wood Elf Ranger of the Vesve Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1 Rng: Weapon Focus (Longsword) 2 Rng: Two Weapon Fighting 3 Fgt: Weapon Familiarity, True Believer 4 Fgt: [Int Bump], Combat Expertise 5 Swa: Weapon Finesse 6 Piost Temp: Improved Two Weapon Fighting 7 Piost Temp: 8 Piost Temp: [Dex Bump], Weapon Specilization (Lightblade) 9 Piost Temp: Mounted Combat, Leadership 10 Champion CL: Greater Two Weapon Fighting 11 Champion CL: 12 Piost Temp: [Dex Bump], (Random Feat) 13 Piost Temp: 14 Piost Temp: 15 Piost Temp: (Random Feat) So far, I have access to the two favorite things an AC cork could want: mithral access and an animated shield. My AC, with those two things, is a 24 normally and I can get it up to around 33 with full defense. My attacks go something like 12/12/7/7. Fun times...but I need to make sure I'm not making a serious mistake somewhere here. I'm level 6 right now, and when I get my Shadowdark ARs, I'll be 7th. I don't know what that arc is going to give me, but so far I have a dark templated rogue cohort (hence the leadership).
UMiskatonic 08-02-07, 09:51 AM	It's a fine build. Are you having a particular problem with it? Seems like the big, built-in question is when to fight defensively, and when to fight offensively. If you're looking for more general advice, I'd steer clear of greater TWF. Getting an attack at -10 isn't that useful, and if you're using expertise and fighting defensively a lot, it's really not going to hit all that often. I'd take melee weapon mastery instead. It would apply to ALL your attacks, and significantly boost your damage output.
Mommy was an Orc 08-02-07, 09:58 AM	Wood Elf Ranger of the Vesve Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1 Rng: Weapon Focus (Longsword) 2 Rng: Two Weapon Fighting 3 Fgt: Weapon Familiarity, True Believer 4 Fgt: [Int Bump], Combat Expertise 5 Swa: Weapon Finesse 6 Piost Temp: Improved Two Weapon Fighting 7 Piost Temp: 8 Piost Temp: [Dex Bump], Weapon Specilization (Lightblade) 9 Piost Temp: Mounted Combat, Leadership 10 Champion CL: Greater Two Weapon Fighting 11 Champion CL: 12 Piost Temp: [Dex Bump], (Random Feat) 13 Piost Temp: 14 Piost Temp: 15 Piost Temp: (Random Feat) You can't get Greater TWF with your Champion CL level as you won't have a +11 BAB and it isn't one of the legal feats. You might want to consider a level of Ranger for Endurance, then pick up 2 levels of Wildrunner for the Frenzy(+2 Str, +6 Dex) Champion CL isn't that bad either - 2 more levels gives you a bonus feat and a solid boost to your Fort/Will Save - it wouldn't be hard to make your level 12 feat Elusive Target. Are you really attached to Leadership? Melee Weapon Mastery is a feat you should be considering - +2 to hit/damage that stacks on Weapon Specialization...
bitznarf 08-02-07, 11:22 AM	And with only an 8 Charisma, unless you have AR notes that bump your effective leadership score, your cohort will be lagging behind a fair bit. For example with an 8 Charisma you will have a level 5 cohort when you are level 9.
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 12:40 PM	It's just that I got access to a dark templated rogue cohort...it just seemed REALLY yummy. :( I guess I'll nix it for mastery...I just don't know what it does. I see everyone and their grandma take the feat but still have yet to look up the prerequisites and bonuses and where those bonuses land. And I do really want to stay away from Wild Runner. While it looks really nice, the frenzy just seems a little...cheap to me. Granted, it'll add a total of +4 damage to all my attacks, +3 to hit, and bump up my AC something fierce...mrow...I don't know. I just didn't want to be one of those guys that 'takes two levels of Wildrunner for Frenzy'. They make my griffon, Aero, sad... :( Seriously, though, if you can sell me on the Wild Runner, do so. I was leery about taking the Piost Templare and Champion levels cause I thought that was breaking me too much. :P I'd also like to know where to put it into the build I have right now.
bitznarf 08-02-07, 12:45 PM	It's just that I got access to a dark templated rogue cohort...it just seemed REALLY yummy. :( I guess I'll nix it for mastery...I just don't know what it does. I see everyone and their grandma take the feat but still have yet to look up the prerequisites and bonuses and where those bonuses land. You may want to look through your ARs and see if you can find anything that bumps your leadership score. As for the Melee/Ranged Weapon Mastery, you need Weapon Specialization and BAB +8. When you pick the feat, you select one damage type that your Weapon Spec applies to. For example of you had Weapon Specialization (Longsword) you would pick Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing). If you had WS with a rapier you would choose MWM(Piercing). What it does is give you a +2 to hit, +2 to damage with weapons that deal that type of damage. So MWM(Slashing) gives you a +2 to hit and damage will all melee slashing weapons. And it stacks with Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec.
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 01:00 PM	Ick...that might not work. I use Lightblade and thinblade, and I think at least one of those is piercing, if not both. Well...that WOULD have been a good idea...unless I pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and duel the lightblades...eeehhhh...
DuctShuiTengu 08-02-07, 01:53 PM	Ick...that might not work. I use Lightblade and thinblade, and I think at least one of those is piercing, if not both. Well...that WOULD have been a good idea...unless I pick up Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and duel the lightblades...eeehhhh... Both are piercing, actually. Given that, you could retrain your earlier WF over to the Lightblade as well, then take MWM piercing.
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 03:49 PM	Now that I thought about that...would oversized be a good deat to take for this? That way my weapon specialization would work. And, based on the rules for lightblades, it says it works for everything down from longsword...but now I'm confused. My specilization will work for both a longsword and lightblade, as will my weapon focus. And I need weapon focus in my god's favored weapon, which is a longsword. Given that...will Weapon Focus lightblade allow me to fill that requirement? If not, will Weapon Focus longsword do anything bad for when I go to Weapon Mastery?
bitznarf 08-02-07, 03:58 PM	As I understand it after re-reading the weapon descriptions involved, you will actually have Weapon Focus/Spec (longsword) (not thinblade as your first post suggests) and as such would have to take MWM (slashing) which doesn't do you much good as both the thinblade and lightblade are peircing weapons. So it appears that MWM won't do you much good. The text of the thinblade and lightblade unfortunately doesn't give you virtual feats, it simply lets you to apply feats to it in a way you normally couldn't.
TWG_Prometheus 08-02-07, 03:58 PM	You do have a problem there. Corellon Larethian's longsword favored weapon kinda-sorta works out with Pious Templar. You can't get Weapon Specialization(Thanblade) or Weapon Specialization(Lightblade) with that, but it mostly works out because the Weapon Specialization(Longsword) you get will help your damage when you're using a Thinblade at least. The tricky part comes when you attempt to take Melee Weapon Mastery. When you take that feat, you have to select a damage type that a weapon you have Weapon Specialization with uses. Your Weapon Specialization(Longsword) only has Slashing as an option, so your only option with Melee Weapon Mastery is MWM(Slashing). That's all legal and stuff, but none of it will help you when you're swinging your Thinblade or your Lightblade around. Ironically, it would help you if you swing a Courtblade, but you wouldn't get the benefit of Weapon Specialization with that. It's sorta weird. Edit: *Sigh* Bitznarf beat me to it.
bitznarf 08-02-07, 04:01 PM	Edit: *Sigh* Bitznarf beat me to it. Yeah, but yours is more legible.
wangka 08-02-07, 04:44 PM	Doesn't weapon focus/specialization (rapier) work for both the lightblade and thin blade? Then you could take weapon mastery piercing. I also like deadly defense (PHB 2 maybe?) which, when fighting defensively or taking at least a -2 to attacks with combat expertise gives you +1d6 damage with each attack. I'm not sure, but I think the damage is good against all foes, even construct/elemental/undead. Edit: I think using a shield may preclude deadly defense, not sure if animated avoids that. Edit 2: Oops! Ignore that then; I didn't account for the PrC requirements for weapon focus...
bitznarf 08-02-07, 04:49 PM	Both Champion of Corellon and Pious Templar require WF(longsword) wangka. And Pious Templar gives WS(longsword) only, with this god anyway.
TWG_Prometheus 08-02-07, 04:54 PM	Doesn't weapon focus/specialization (rapier) work for both the lightblade and thin blade? Then you could take weapon mastery piercing. I also like deadly defense (PHB 2 maybe?) which, when fighting defensively or taking at least a -2 to attacks with combat expertise gives you +1d6 damage with each attack. I'm not sure, but I think the damage is good against all foes, even construct/elemental/undead. Edit: I think using a shield may preclude deadly defense, not sure if animated avoids that. Using a shield does not preclude deadly defense. You have to be in light armor or no armor though. It's a good way for fighting types that have gone away from the Power Attack path to boost their damage. Good ideas overall, but they don't work for this character so much. Champions of Corellon are feat-starved.
jstorrie 08-02-07, 05:04 PM	The solution to that problem is to cut Pious Templar from the build. You have an 8 Wisdom–why were you taking PT levels anyway? Replace them with Fighter levels and your feats line up nicely. Weapon Spec from Fighter 4 is less restricted than from PT, so you can get around most of the CoCL problem.
CrystalBlue 08-02-07, 10:00 PM	I wanted the Pious Templare to get away from the exp penalty I'm going to take if I continue. More fighter would have done it...but it wouldn't get me what I want soon enough.
clannagh 08-02-07, 10:22 PM	I wanted the Pious Templare to get away from the exp penalty I'm going to take if I continue. More fighter would have done it...but it wouldn't get me what I want soon enough. What about swash 3 / fighter 4 and a head band of int ? Unfortunately if it wasnt for the table variation issues retraining the WF to improved weapon familiarity would ahve solved a lot of issues.
Timlagor 08-03-07, 02:36 AM	You coudl swap Weapon familiarity to EWP(Lightblade) and the put the WF etc into Lightblade so you can go to MWM. Lightblades are light weapons so you don't need OTWF (you're not power attacking so that's not a problem). It's worth taking 14 int at the start for extra skills and reducing something else (probably Dex) to bein the same place at 4th level but with 7 extra skillpoints.
bitznarf 08-03-07, 03:15 AM	You coudl swap Weapon familiarity to EWP(Lightblade) and the put the WF etc into Lightblade so you can go to MWM. Lightblades are light weapons so you don't need OTWF (you're not power attacking so that's not a problem). He needs WF(Longsword) for the Pious Templar he already has. And would still need a way to get WS(Lightblade) as Pious Templar is actually giving WS(Longsword). It's worth taking 14 int at the start for extra skills and reducing something else (probably Dex) to bein the same place at 4th level but with 7 extra skillpoints. The PC in question is already level 6.
CrystalBlue 08-03-07, 08:04 AM	Which is why I think I made a huge mistake. :( I didn't count on Melee Weapon Mastery. But...the way the feats are worded, Lightblade can be counted as having all the feats associated to Longsword. Theoretically, that should be enough for me to just take the MWM with piercing, as I'm considered to have Weapon Specilization with lightbalde. I have to check this, but if MWM doesn't specifically say you have to the the specific feat for lightblade, just Weapon Specilization with it, then it works and I'm ok. :D I'll post this on the rules board and be hopeful. :D
bitznarf 08-03-07, 10:27 AM	.. Taken to the other thread Crystal Blue started.
TWG_Prometheus 08-03-07, 11:15 AM	I'd note that this doesn't actually break the build. Weapon Specialization(Longsword) will still add +2 damage to your Thinblade attacks, which will be your most damaging in any case. You won't be able to make any effective use out of Melee Weapon Mastery(Slashing) so I'd recommend just...not getting it. It's not optimal but it still works, and there are plenty of other good feats to look at. Alternately, you could jump back into Fighter to get Weapon Specialization(Rapier) and just choke the XP penalty. Pious Templar 1 is hardly a waste. You might even get some judges who'd allow Weapon Focus(Longsword) and Weapon Focus(Rapier) to stack for your Thinblade...scary thought. ----- I don't actually like suggesting it, but from a mechanical standpoint, this character could seriously use either: * A change in Deity to someone that offers Rapier as a favored weapon. (giving up Champion of Corellon Larethian) * A character death to get them out of Pious Templar. If characters can suicide to get a different Reincarnate, I wonder if this suicide to escape a bad class choice would be acceptable?
Zanzibax 08-03-07, 11:32 AM	Both are piercing, actually. Given that, you could retrain your earlier WF over to the Lightblade as well, then take MWM piercing. He can't retrain the 1st level weapon focus to an exotic weapon.
Mommy was an Orc 08-03-07, 12:23 PM	I know this might sound kind of radical, but why not just bump Strength with your level 8 and 12 bumps and go with Longsword? The difference between your Str and Dex is pretty insignificant. Something like this: 7 Piost Temp: (retrain weapon familiarity into OTWF and pick up 2 longswords) 8 Piost Temp: [Str Bump], Weapon Specilization (Longsword) 9 Piost Temp: Mounted Combat, MWM(Slashing) 10 Champion CL: Mobility 11 Champion CL: 12 Champion CL: [Str Bump], Power Attack 13 Champion CL: Spring Attack 14 Champion CL: 15 Champion CL: Elusive Target By the end of your build, Mithral Breastplate will give you +5 Armor(before enchantment), +7 Dex bonus. Which is pretty nice.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 09:36 AM	The real answer? Flavor. I don't think elves should be using longswords. Too clunky. I like dexterous fighter types. The only reason my strength was up that high was to get more damage. I just feel sad now. :(
Banor 08-06-07, 09:56 AM	The real answer? Flavor. I don't think elves should be using longswords. Too clunky. I like dexterous fighter types. The only reason my strength was up that high was to get more damage. I just feel sad now. :( Well Longswords are Elves favored weapon as well as their Deity one's. I see no reason why they should not be using them...
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-07, 11:32 AM	The real answer? Flavor. I don't think elves should be using longswords. Too clunky. I like dexterous fighter types. The only reason my strength was up that high was to get more damage. I just feel sad now. :( Okay, let's take a look at my beguiler who calls himself "Favored of Pelor" - he fully believes that Pelor has granted him all his various abilities, including trapfinding. He casts a selection of Cleric spells once per day from Arcane Disciple. He'll likely get Commune as a spell known at some point. He's not completely optimal by any means, but he's fun to play, both for me and everyone else at the table. I make clear to the players and DM that he's a Beguiler. My character might be confused; I'm not. But people who in the slightest metagame obviously make the connection that he thinks he's taken the class 'Favored Soul' and this provokes a variety of laughter and head-shaking, especially when I cast spells and say things. Just this past week, someone asked if I could cast Glitterdust and I responded that "Pelor has not yet granted me that spell." No one has told me, "You should be a Favored Soul if you're calling yourself Favored of Pelor." i.e. you, the player, don't like longsword for flavor. Fine. So call your longsword an elfblade or something similar. At the beginning of the mod, just tell the players and DM that you call your longsword an elfblade for roleplay reasons, but mechanically, it is a longsword. No one should be telling you that you can't call it an elfblade. Not to mention, instead of looking like someone trying to get the best of both worlds from an exotic weapon, you'll be having this cool flavor effect.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 01:01 PM	Ok. Fine. :P Second thing I have a problem with. I just wasted a level on swashbuckler. I took it for two reasons. 1.) To get Tumble 2.) To get Weapon Finesse. Sure, one of those is still met. But now I have a useless feat if I start focusing on strength to hit everything. Sure, it's not the worst thing in the world. I can still wield and fight with light weapons very well. But for the focus of this character, swashbuckler is now downplayed. I'd say if they allowed retraining that this wouldn't be so bad. But they don't...and now it just seems the character class is hanging out there for no reason. I can still finesse a courtblade or thinblade, sure, but if I retrain out of weapon familiarity, it's really pointless then.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 01:28 PM	*sighs and rubs his eyes* Well...reading evreything I've seen so far...I can safely say a few things... Screw the animated shield, screw AC, screw thinblades and lightblades entirely, and let's see if a woodelf that's wasted all of his money, time, and life on a useless build can somehow become semi-usable. I've turned from an elegant, deadly, and hard to hit elven warrior to being a clunkly, slow paper wall with less AC then the wizard...without mage armor up. ...yay... This started off as a build where I could get up and hold off an enemy by cranking up my AC or taking a full attack and completly anihalting something. Now, I can do niether. At least not effectively enough to be a useful 6th level character anymore. And the retraining of everything that is now useless isn't even possible without making this character seriously illegal. So...let's pretend that I never wanted this and someone help me figure out what could possibly be effective.
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-07, 02:46 PM	*sighs and rubs his eyes* Well...reading evreything I've seen so far...I can safely say a few things... Screw the animated shield, screw AC, screw thinblades and lightblades entirely, and let's see if a woodelf that's wasted all of his money, time, and life on a useless build can somehow become semi-usable. I've turned from an elegant, deadly, and hard to hit elven warrior to being a clunkly, slow paper wall with less AC then the wizard...without mage armor up. All your mechanical problems are solved by retraining Improved Weapon Familiarity into Oversized Two Weapon Fighting and dual-wielding Longswords. You're not 100% optimized, but you're just as functional as you were before you figured out you couldn't be 100% optimized. Perhaps even more so(as you have a free feat for Power Attack for your feat starved build) Ah, but now you've just condradicted yourself. I get ALL the penalties of having a shield on as if I was really equipping it. That means no dex bonus, no lower skill checks, and definately no two weapons...because that's a straight out rule. You CAN NOT have two weapons when fighting with a shield, unless that thing is a buckler. Period. That is a penalty and it falls in with the ruling you just gave me. I can't hold two weapons and 'use' a shield. A penalty is negative bonus in D&D terms. As an elf with 2 hands, you don't have enough hands to hold two weapons and use a hide shield. That's not a penalty. You can use an Animated Shield with two longswords at the same time.
CrystalBlue 08-06-07, 04:21 PM	Just so we don't turn this into an argument...I'm not mad at you. I'm frustrated that my character just got ruined this weekend when I found out that half his stuff doesn't work. So...I appologise if I sound angry...I'm not. I'm just tired of never making a good character build... Anyways...so if I use the animated shield, I get the shield bonus...but then my dex bonus to AC drops, which is what I wanted. So it's either keep pumping up the dex for AC, or get an animated shield that'll interfere with my AC, tumbling, and full attacking. At least, I'm sure I can't full attack with that thing still around. And another problem I have is that swashbuckler level that's still hanging around and not being used properly. I had this built so I would be doing all of my attacking with my dex. Now I'm down to being a strength character...which I just never wanted to be.
rutrow424 08-06-07, 04:40 PM	I'm frustrated that my character just got ruined this weekend when I found out that half his stuff doesn't work. So...I appologise if I sound angry...I'm not. I'm just tired of never making a good character build... And another problem I have is that swashbuckler level that's still hanging around and not being used properly. I had this built so I would be doing all of my attacking with my dex. Now I'm down to being a strength character...which I just never wanted to be. Relax - it happens sometimes. I went out and scribed a bunch of scrolls for my spellsword PC so he could wear armor (having dropped conjuration - d'oh), then learned scrolls still suffer from ASF (I still have all those scrolls of magic missile, chill touch, and MW at 8th level). Retraining to OTWF is the most direct route to salvaging this PC - don't get hung up on what stat he uses to hit with and just have fun! There is no rule that a PC must be perfectly built or synergize all his abilities; the swashbuckler level adds flavor and skills to help your original concept.
Mommy was an Orc 08-06-07, 04:49 PM	Just so we don't turn this into an argument...I'm not mad at you. I'm frustrated that my character just got ruined this weekend when I found out that half his stuff doesn't work. So...I appologise if I sound angry...I'm not. I'm just tired of never making a good character build... I know you've had issues with character builds, but there's really nothing wrong with the build. It is with your perception of the build and what you think has to belong in it. He works. You don't like that he works in a way different than what you thought would work. Anyways...so if I use the animated shield, I get the shield bonus...but then my dex bonus to AC drops, which is what I wanted. So it's either keep pumping up the dex for AC, or get an animated shield that'll interfere with my AC, tumbling, and full attacking. At least, I'm sure I can't full attack with that thing still around. So don't get an Animated Hide Shield, get an Animated Heavy Shield. You lose 1 AC, don't get penalized on your attack roll, and if it is Mithral, you don't even get penalized to your Dex checks. Obviously, I don't know the exact wording of your access, but for a TWFer, they want the Animated Mithril Heavy Shield, because they don't want an additional penalty to hit and they probably have significant Dexterity related abilities. And another problem I have is that swashbuckler level that's still hanging around and not being used properly. I had this built so I would be doing all of my attacking with my dex. Now I'm down to being a strength character...which I just never wanted to be. How are you a Strength character? At high level, where you'd likely have a 24 Str and 24 Dex, you get an additional +7 damage from both Str/Dex. Your offhand would get +3 from Str/+7 from Dex. i.e. in general, you're still doing more damage on average from your Dex than you are from your Str. You could look at it as being that you're now a Strength character, or you could look at it as being that you're the elven ideal of a warrior - the perfect merging of both Strength and Dexterity in combat. You're not afraid to put some muscle into your swing as elves are not weak, but at the same time, you do it with a lethal elegance in a way that no human can possibly match.
TWG_Prometheus 08-07-07, 10:29 AM	So don't get an Animated Hide Shield, get an Animated Heavy Shield. You lose 1 AC, don't get penalized on your attack roll, and if it is Mithral, you don't even get penalized to your Dex checks. Obviously, I don't know the exact wording of your access, but for a TWFer, they want the Animated Mithril Heavy Shield, because they don't want an additional penalty to hit and they probably have significant Dexterity related abilities. I was under the impression that the character already had the Animated Hide Shield. If not, the Mithral Heavy Shield is definitely the way to go. If so...that's kinda harsh...those things aren't cheap. I still think this character should come out fine in the end, though. At 15th level, they're doing something like +23/+18/+13 for (1d8+18) and +23/+18 for (1d8+15) *IF* they only use non-masterwork longswords. That's pretty solid. They're getting somewhere between +5 and +7 Armor Class from Dexterity alone as well and there's nothing at all wrong with that. Don't give up on it.
CrystalBlue 08-07-07, 01:04 PM	No. I was about to buy it. It was either that or the ring of protection +2 at 20% off. Which, I guess, is now going to be the ring. So I need to find access to animated? That should be little more than impossible, I guess. I have the mithral access. I have it up to my eyeballs. @_@ Let's look at what I should be doing with the build now... Wood Elf Ranger of the Vesve Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1 Rng: Weapon Focus (Longsword) 2 Rng: Two Weapon Fighting 3 Fgt: Weapon Familiarity, True Believer 4 Fgt: [Int Bump], Combat Expertise 5 Swa: Weapon Finesse 6 Piost Temp: Improved Two Weapon Fighting 7 Piost Temp: (RETRAIN) Weapon Familiarity --> Power Attack 8 Piost Temp: [Str Bump], Weapon Specilization (Longsword) 9 Piost Temp: Mounted Combat, Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 10 Champion CL: Oversized TWF 11 Champion CL: 12 Piost Temp: [Str Bump], (Random Feat) 13 Piost Temp: 14 Piost Temp: 15 Piost Temp: (Random Feat) There's the changes that you've suggested. I put power attack first because it's going to be more useful right away then OTWF. I just still really hate the waste of my swashbuckler level, but there's nothing I can do about it. Now I just have to hope for the right type of access to get this character a little more decent.
Iswald 08-07-07, 10:17 PM	I just still really hate the waste of my swashbuckler level, but there's nothing I can do about it. Only if you don't want your PC to die or be level drained. ;)
clannagh 08-07-07, 11:06 PM	No. I was about to buy it. It was either that or the ring of protection +2 at 20% off. Which, I guess, is now going to be the ring. So I need to find access to animated? That should be little more than impossible, I guess. I have the mithral access. I have it up to my eyeballs. @_@ Let's look at what I should be doing with the build now... Wood Elf Ranger of the Vesve Str: 16 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 8 Cha: 8 1 Rng: Weapon Focus (Longsword) 2 Rng: Two Weapon Fighting 3 Fgt: Weapon Familiarity, True Believer 4 Fgt: [Int Bump], Combat Expertise 5 Swa: Weapon Finesse 6 Piost Temp: Improved Two Weapon Fighting 7 Piost Temp: (RETRAIN) Weapon Familiarity --> Power Attack 8 Piost Temp: [Str Bump], Weapon Specilization (Longsword) 9 Piost Temp: Mounted Combat, Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 10 Champion CL: Oversized TWF 11 Champion CL: 12 Piost Temp: [Str Bump], (Random Feat) 13 Piost Temp: 14 Piost Temp: 15 Piost Temp: (Random Feat) There's the changes that you've suggested. I put power attack first because it's going to be more useful right away then OTWF. I just still really hate the waste of my swashbuckler level, but there's nothing I can do about it. Now I just have to hope for the right type of access to get this character a little more decent. If i understand correctly you have access to an animated hide shield but not animated on any other shield ? You are not going to have the caster levels to craft one. Specific animated access is a wee bit scarce .. but favors offering "any +2 enhancement" do come up on occasions. As far as an animated hide shield .. its masterwork automatically so the check penalty is only -2 and it has no dex limit to AC. So basically you are trading a -2 check penalty for the ability to get full cover on one facing (ETV on how that works while animated) and +1 AC over a normal shield.
CrystalBlue 08-08-07, 08:05 AM	Wait...I was told that the shield imposed a Max Dex of +4...now you're saying that it only has a -2 check? If that's all, I'd take it in a heartbeat.
Banor 08-08-07, 08:58 AM	According to KenJenks open item list, it does have a Max Dex of +4 as well as a -1 penality to attack rolls.
Iswald 08-08-07, 12:14 PM	According to the source book, Sandstorm (page 99), it has a max dex bonus of +4, -3 armor check penalty, -1 to attacks, +3 shield bonus, etc. This doesn't include changes for being masterwork or enhanced.
CrystalBlue 08-08-07, 08:58 PM	Then that answers my question. It's a useless item and I won't buy it. Thank you.
Timlagor 08-08-07, 09:10 PM	Then that answers my question. It's a useless item and I won't buy it. Thank you. Doesn't mean you shouldn't get a different animated shield though.