Post/Author/DateTime	Post
beyowulf 09-24-06, 04:47 PM	I wanted to be a straight monk, but I figured starting out as Fighter would be beneficial for the feat. Str: 14 Dex: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 14 Con: 14 (16) Cha: 10 (8) Dwarf Fighter 1/Monk X 1)FIghter: Power Attack, Cleave 2)Monk(Improved Grapple) 3)Monk(Combat Reflexes), Combat Brute? Improved Toughness? 4)Monk(Str +1) 5)Monk 6)Monk: Leadership? 7)Monk 8)Monk(Str +1) I was thinking of mostly power attacking/flurrying with my unarmed strikes, but I'd also have a some Monk Weapons with various Banes on them(Evil Outsider, Undead, etc) I also plan to buy a few whips so that I could do trip attacks when I can't do anything else. I want to take leadership at some point, I'll definetly need a Cloak of Charisma. Amulet of Health and Periapt of Wisdom take up the same slot, but I'am inclined to go with the Amulet of Health, and maybe pick of a Bracers of Armor. Or, I could get the Periapt of Wisdom and get a Gauntlets of Ogre Power. Not sure what I want to do for feats at 3rd level and past. Any suggestions?
Mommy was an Orc 09-24-06, 05:37 PM	Starting with Fighter is a pretty good build move with a Monk - one of the great weaknesses of a Monk build is the lack of Reach weapons to take advantage of Combat Reflexes/Improved Trip/Improved Disarm options. Not to mention, there are points in time where carting along a set of Full Plate and Heavy Shield for emergancies isn't necessarily a bad idea. Jumping from 14 to 20 AC at the loss of Flurry isn't necessarily a bad one when you're in a party without a frontline tank or a caster capable of Mage Armor. The most important thing is what exactly are you planning to do as a Monk - you look like a Strength based Monk, but you only have a 14 Str. I'd start with a 16 or 15 Str - it will give you a lot more options.
beyowulf 09-24-06, 06:00 PM	Not to mention, there are points in time where carting along a set of Full Plate and Heavy Shield for emergancies isn't necessarily a bad idea. Jumping from 14 to 20 AC at the loss of Flurry isn't necessarily a bad one when you're in a party without a frontline tank or a caster capable of Mage Armor. I actually didn't think of that. Need to get a pack mule for that. The most important thing is what exactly are you planning to do as a Monk - you look like a Strength based Monk, but you only have a 14 Str. I'd start with a 16 or 15 Str - it will give you a lot more options. Yeah, Strength based monk. I'd put more into strength, but I'd really not sure from where I'd take it. I could take two points from Dex or Wisdom, but that'll drop my AC. Two points from Con, but that'll drop my HP. Two points from Int, will hurt my Skill points(Speaking of which, whats good skills? I was thinking Tumble and Spot, definetly, and then alternating between Jump, Climb & Swim). Two points from Charisma, well thats going to definetly kill any chance at a Henchman.
UMiskatonic 09-24-06, 10:59 PM	You don't have a chance at a henchman anyway. Dump Charisma, possible INT as well. Three or four good skills should do ya. If you want to spend a feat on leadership, you can get a cohort. However, cohorts can only come along if there are 4 or 5 people at the table. With 6 people, it's not allowed. If you mostly play at conventions, using your cohort will be very rare. Also, you have access to potions of 1-3rd level. I'd forget about climb, and buy a potion of spider climb instead. That will allow you to focus on balance, tumble and jump, which are often needed right away.
beyowulf 09-25-06, 08:38 PM	So instead... Str: 15 Dex: 14 Int: 8 Wis: 14 Con: 14 (16) Cha: 10 (8)
Timlagor 09-27-06, 01:24 PM	I'd drop Cleave myself -you really won't get a lot of use from it. Combat Brute requires Imp Sunder (or is it Bull Rush..) Int depends on whether you want Combat Expertise or not. I'd probably go for Elusive Target but there are other good options. Rogue 1 at first level is another popular option (opening Staggering Strike later) Attributes are usually listed in the following order: Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha
beyowulf 09-27-06, 06:41 PM	I'd drop Cleave myself -you really won't get a lot of use from it. Okay, what do you suggest as a replacement? Combat Brute requires Imp Sunder (or is it Bull Rush..) Int depends on whether you want Combat Expertise or not. I'd probably go for Elusive Target but there are other good options. Rogue 1 at first level is another popular option (opening Staggering Strike later) I'am just going by memory here, but I thought Power Attack was the sole pre-requesite. I maybe wrong. Elusive Target would be cool too, but I am not sure what it does off hand(except, somehow counter Power Attack), or what its prerequesites are. I wouldn't mind a level of Rogue, but it'd also give multi-class penalties.
Lupo 09-28-06, 03:03 AM	I'd drop Cleave myself -you really won't get a lot of use from it. Combat Brute requires Imp Sunder (or is it Bull Rush..) Int depends on whether you want Combat Expertise or not. I'd probably go for Elusive Target but there are other good options. Rogue 1 at first level is another popular option (opening Staggering Strike later) Attributes are usually listed in the following order: Str Dex Con Int Wis Cha "cleave" isn't to bad, for a "high-damage-dealer", some of the war-axe dwarven frontliners around get a free "cleave" attack once or twice per fight. it depends on timing and combat tactics. the damage dealer sometimes has to wait a moment for the blaster mage to "soften them up". then his chances to get a foe down and a free swing on a second one increases dramatically. just depends on good coordination between blaster and frontliner. with cleave a frontliner is better off when the foes come to him, for him getting a full attack sequence. or put cleave as icing on a mounted charger ;) ciao martin m.
Jay_Ibero_911 10-01-06, 12:03 AM	On a side note...power attacking with unarmed strikes is sub-optimal, since you only get the 1 for 1 trade. It's even worse when you flurry. Taking all kinds of penalties for a small increase in damage....
beyowulf 10-01-06, 09:37 AM	On a side note...power attacking with unarmed strikes is sub-optimal, since you only get the 1 for 1 trade. It's even worse when you flurry. Taking all kinds of penalties for a small increase in damage.... Not really. The penalty's for flurrying are actually quite light. At most, I am going to be -2 to my attacks, which decreases to a -1 at 5th, and disappears completely at 9th. Since, I'll have a +1 BAB from my level of Fighter, that'll counter that slightly. Plus, this is a Strength based monk, so that'll offset the penalty as well. Still, 3/4 BAB :(
Jay_Ibero_911 10-01-06, 08:14 PM	Not really. The penalty's for flurrying are actually quite light. At most, I am going to be -2 to my attacks, which decreases to a -1 at 5th, and disappears completely at 9th. Since, I'll have a +1 BAB from my level of Fighter, that'll counter that slightly. Plus, this is a Strength based monk, so that'll offset the penalty as well. Still, 3/4 BAB :( With only 14 starting strength, you hardly qualify as strength based. With only 3/4 bab, you'll have enough trouble hitting stuff without taking more penalties for power attack. For power attack to be used most effectively, you really need 2 handed weapon, and ideally a strength bonus greater than or equal to your BAB so you can power attack for full and still have a good chance of hitting. You should focus on increasing your damage without decreasing your accuracy. If you may want to consider a build like this: Race:Dwarf Alignment:Lawful Neutral or Good STR-15 (8) DEX-14 (6) CON-14 (6)+2 INT-10 (2) WIS-14 (6) CHA-8 (0)-2 Lv1(Monk)Endurance, Improved Grapple Lv2(Monk) Lv3(Monk)Earth Sense Lv4(Monk)+1 STR Lv5(Monk) Lv6(Monk)Earth Adept, Improved Trip Lv7(Tattooed Monk)Tattoo Lv8(Tattooed Monk)+1 STR Lv9(Tattooed Monk)Earth Master, Tattoo Lv10(Tattooed Monk) Lv11(Tattooed Monk)Tattoo Lv12(Tattooed Monk)Earth Fist, +1 STR Lv13(Tattooed Monk)Tattoo Lv14(Tattooed Monk) Lv15(Tattooed Monk)Feat, Tattoo Definite Tattoos: Wasp, Tiger This build will increase both your damage and accuracy, as well as having a VERY dwarven flavor to it (especially if you take the mountain tattoo). With the Earth feats and the Wasp and Tiger Tattoos, you will be able to full attack/Flurry for +10/+10/+10/+5 for 1d10+1d6+4 at 9th level, and that's not taking into account any magic items you may have by that time. Leadership would be a waste for you character, especially at later levels when your leadership score needs to be so much higher than your character level to get a full cohort. This build might me a different direction, than you were planning on going, but I think you might like it.
beyowulf 10-01-06, 09:12 PM	This build will increase both your damage and accuracy, as well as having a VERY dwarven flavor to it (especially if you take the mountain tattoo). With the Earth feats and the Wasp and Tiger Tattoos, you will be able to full attack/Flurry for +10/+10/+10/+5 for 1d10+1d6+4 at 9th level, and that's not taking into account any magic items you may have by that time. Hm...maybe, maybe.. Leadership would be a waste for you character, especially at later levels when your leadership score needs to be so much higher than your character level to get a full cohort. This build might me a different direction, than you were planning on going, but I think you might like it. Why? Unless I am misreading the Leadership feat, I only need to have a Cha of 10 to have a cohort thats not different in alignment from myself, and is two level lower than myself. Am I missing something?
Iswald 10-01-06, 10:49 PM	Why? Unless I am misreading the Leadership feat, I only need to have a Cha of 10 to have a cohort thats not different in alignment from myself, and is two level lower than myself. Am I missing something? When you can first take leadership, a cha of 10 is enough to have a cohort 2 levels lower than your PC. But, at level 15, that 10 cha lets you have a cohort that is 5 levels lower than your character (only 10th level). If you want to keep your cohort effective, you need to improve your charisma or find bonuses to your reputation as a leader, great renown providing the largest bonus of +2. An 18 cha or 14 cha plus great renown will push your leadership score up by 4, so that you can keep your cohort within two levels of your PC's level.
beyowulf 10-01-06, 11:12 PM	When you can first take leadership, a cha of 10 is enough to have a cohort 2 levels lower than your PC. But, at level 15, that 10 cha lets you have a cohort that is 5 levels lower than your character (only 10th level). If you want to keep your cohort effective, you need to improve your charisma or find bonuses to your reputation as a leader, great renown providing the largest bonus of +2. An 18 cha or 14 cha plus great renown will push your leadership score up by 4, so that you can keep your cohort within two levels of your PC's level. Hmm..I see. Darn it.
beyowulf 10-02-06, 07:47 PM	With apologies, I never really like Tattoed Monk, for flavor reasons. Str - 16 Dex - 14 Con - 14(16) Int - 8 Wis - 14 Cha - 8 (6) How about... Lvl 1(Fighter) Dodge, Mobility Lvl 2(Monk) Improved Grapple Lvl 3(Monk) Power Attack, Combat Reflexes Lvl 4(Monk) Str +1 Lvl 5(Monk) Lvl 6(Monk) Spring Attack Lvl 7(Monk) Improved Disarm Lvl 8(Monk) Str +1 Lvl 9(Monk) Combat Brute Lvl 10(Monk) Lvl 11(Monk) Elusive Target Lvl 12(Monk) Str +1 Lvl 13(Monk) Lvl 14(Monk) Lvl 15(Monk) Improved Toughness Lvl 16(Monk) Str +1 I've given up on Leadership completely. I've upped my strength. I am doing a Spring Attack build, but I am still taking Power Attack incase I run into something with DR. Besides, I can still use martial weapons, I just won't be able to flurry with them.
solbergb 10-02-06, 09:25 PM	I would stay the heck away from spring attack. It obviates the main advantage of monks in tactical fighting (flurrying for more attempts to grapple/trip). It's better on a F1/MonkX than it would be on a MonkX, but that's just going from "it totally sucks" to "it sucks less". You aren't strong enough to do real damage with a single attack as your main contribution to the fight. (your reckless raging barbarian peer might have a 8 strength advantage....12 per hit, plus if he can convert his +4 to hit into power attack, that's +20 more on single hit damage than you do...and the reckless rage barbarian STILL doesn't want to be single-striking as his main offense) You can't afford the feat hit either, especially since dodge and mobility do nothing for you. I'm playing a monk12 that's about to take a fighter level as his L13 level, so I'm familiar with the advantages and disadvantages of the choice. Fighter is good - having a bow and a reach weapon you're proficient with makes it less important that you set up the flurry at every opportunity. But the flurry will still be better, most of the time, especially if you've caught a nice buff that adds damage to each hit (inspire courage, righteous wrath faithful, prayer, or if you are really lucky, brambles or fires of purity) The strength seems too low to me on your build. A character that mainly brings melee to the table needs a 16 strength or higher, especially when you can't boost that strength with rage or cheap self-buffs. I have no idea why you want a cloak of charisma - charisma does absolutely nothing on a monk. I recommend spending on offense rather than defense, in particular strength items, a beltfull of consumables (enlarge, shillelegah being most important) and, in the level 10-15 game, specific bane weapons for stuff you have trouble with normally. Also..don't give up stunning fist casually. It's easier to grapple via a feat than it is to recover stunning fist, and both are useful. The only downside of this approach is that if enlarged, you gotta still get that dex13 minimum for imp grapple if you don't take it with a bonus feat. That might push you into a wood elf build, or gloves of dex instead of gaunts of ogre power. Something like (for a dwarf, and assuming you want the 10 intelligence more than a 16 constitution...you don't need charisma for anything, if you want to be a diplomat, put skill ranks into diplomacy and sense motive...skill points are a lot less valuable than attribute points on a monk)) (you could go sunder/combat brute too if you prefer instead of shock trooper. Personally I like the ability to move things around. Quickdraw can also be handy, as can many other feats) str 16 dex 14 con 14 int 10 wis 14 cha 6 Ftr1: power attack, bull rush Mk1: imp unarmed, stun fist Mk2: combat reflexes, imp grapple Mk3: still mind, fast movement Mk4: ki strike, d8 fists Mk5: close quarters combat, +1 AC, immune disease Mk6: imp trip Mk7: wholeness body Mk8: shock trooper, fist = d10 Mk9: imp evasion Mk10: ki strike lawful Mk11: improved flurry, immune poison, sun school martial arts Mk12: abundant step (and +1 to BAB and all saves, and 2d6 fists) ftr2: quickdraw (or some other good feat, whatever you like) Thief Acrobat1: (kick-up, etc) Other comments.... power attacking with the improved flurry can be very effective. With 3 attacks at top BAB, and the fourth at only -5 BAB, you can hit four times and more or less get similar damage from PA to what the 2-h guy gets. But you can only do it when you've got a lot of attack bonuses or the other guy is penalized because you just don't have as high an attack mod as your true-fighter types. Still, the opportunity comes up more than you'd think. For the last couple levels (L11 and L12) my monk has been hitting most APL10-12 enemies on "2"s, and APL14 enemies with about a "5". He started str 18 (half orc) but it won't be that different for your guy if you prioritize a strength belt. Very important though, to making a flurry work, is to get a GMW from a party member starting from level 8 (when you get 3 attacks with a flurry, and it becomes worth a spell) when you can. In my experience, GMW became routine after about APL10, but if you ask, sometimes a wizard, cleric or druid will provide it at APL8. Even the +1 version (usually from druid, in the "all natural weapons" mode is worthwhile. Flurrying without an enhancement bonus to hit usually will mean no power attack for you. Just some rough level 13 numbers for you, to get an idea how the martial weapons stack up on my monk, versus doing his normal unarmed strike thing. The variation depends on buffs, or whether I activate capsule retainers,and doesn't consider DR that I can't beat (I can usually beat most DR) Single attack: vicious guisarme does 25-40, unarmed strike from 15-25, "bane" monk weapon does 21-27, bow does ~10 Full attack: vicious guisarme does 75-120, unarmed strike 80-140, "bane" monk weapon does 100-140 (and can't be power attacked with unless it is a staff), bow does ~35 The unarmed strike in full attack has 4 at top iterative, 1 at lower. The guisarme has 2 at top iterative, 1 at lower, so it's real damage will be less than shown here. If there is DR I can't penetrate, the guisarme is just better. The bow just plain sucks...unless I can't get at the enemy. Then it's as good as doing "charge+single strike" (or similar to what you get with spring attack) If the bottom iterative hits, the guisarme gets 6 points of damage per point of power attack, vs 5 for the flurry. If it doesn't hit, the guisarme gets 4 points, the flurry gets 4. So power attack considerations are similar for both attack modes. Note that my best spring attack option does less than 1/3 my unarmed strike flurry damage. I don't consider 35ish damage enough of a contribution at APL12-14, but I have found that a typical full attack performance of 100/round is enough to make a solid contribution. Missing is a big deal...when you do 30 a hit, power attacking has a fairly high opportunity cost, so you want to be sure you aren't robbing yourself of hits. Making up for one missed 30 damage attack requires power attacking for about 7 on the remaining hits...with flurry or guisarme. There is a reason I have gloves of fortunate striking, not gloves of dexterity, on my hands.
beyowulf 10-02-06, 10:14 PM	I would stay the heck away from spring attack. It obviates the main advantage of monks in tactical fighting (flurrying for more attempts to grapple/trip). It's better on a F1/MonkX than it would be on a MonkX, but that's just going from "it totally sucks" to "it sucks less". Okay I'm playing a monk12 that's about to take a fighter level as his L13 level, so I'm familiar with the advantages and disadvantages of the choice. Fighter is good - having a bow and a reach weapon you're proficient with makes it less important that you set up the flurry at every opportunity. But the flurry will still be better, most of the time, especially if you've caught a nice buff that adds damage to each hit (inspire courage, righteous wrath faithful, prayer, or if you are really lucky, brambles or fires of purity) What about a sling? It seems to be better suited to high strength characters, and can be enchanted also. Sure there's a composite bow, but it seems you have to plan in advance how high your strength will go to fully take advantage of it. The strength seems too low to me on your build. A character that mainly brings melee to the table needs a 16 strength or higher, especially when you can't boost that strength with rage or cheap self-buffs. I have no idea why you want a cloak of charisma - charisma does absolutely nothing on a monk. I recommend spending on offense rather than defense, in particular strength items, a beltfull of consumables (enlarge, shillelegah being most important) and, in the level 10-15 game, specific bane weapons for stuff you have trouble with normally. The Cloak of Charisma was for Leadership, I've since given up on that. Otherwise, I see what you mean. Also..don't give up stunning fist casually. It's easier to grapple via a feat than it is to recover stunning fist, and both are useful. The only downside of this approach is that if enlarged, you gotta still get that dex13 minimum for imp grapple if you don't take it with a bonus feat. That might push you into a wood elf build, or gloves of dex instead of gaunts of ogre power. The Imp. Grapple was more to prevent myself from being grappled by something of large++ size and appetite. Have you used Stunning Fist alot? Something like (for a dwarf, and assuming you want the 10 intelligence more than a 16 constitution...you don't need charisma for anything, if you want to be a diplomat, put skill ranks into diplomacy and sense motive...skill points are a lot less valuable than attribute points on a monk)) I worry about being forced to tank. Thats why I wanted the Con reasonably high, though. str 16 dex 14 con 14 int 10 wis 14 cha 6 Ftr1: power attack, bull rush Mk1: imp unarmed, stun fist Mk2: combat reflexes, imp grapple Mk3: still mind, fast movement Mk4: ki strike, d8 fists Mk5: close quarters combat, +1 AC, immune disease Mk6: imp trip Any particular reason for Imp Trip over Imp Disarm? A kama offers free Imp. Trip, and a sai, free improved disarm. Very important though, to making a flurry work, is to get a GMW from a party member starting from level 8 (when you get 3 attacks with a flurry, and it becomes worth a spell) when you can. GMW for attack bonus, or for ability to bypass DR? Just some rough level 13 numbers for you, to get an idea how the martial weapons stack up on my monk, versus doing his normal unarmed strike thing. The variation depends on buffs, or whether I activate capsule retainers,and doesn't consider DR that I can't beat (I can usually beat most DR) Capsule retainers? Single attack: vicious guisarme does 25-40, unarmed strike from 15-25, "bane" monk weapon does 21-27, bow does ~10 Full attack: vicious guisarme does 75-120, unarmed strike 80-140, "bane" monk weapon does 100-140 (and can't be power attacked with unless it is a staff), bow does ~35 I was thinking of picking up and later enchanting a martial weapon for the 2hand power attack bonus. I was thinking warhammer to fit the image in my head. There is a reason I have gloves of fortunate striking, not gloves of dexterity, on my hands. In what book is Glove of Fortunate Striking found?
Iswald 10-02-06, 11:17 PM	What about a sling? It seems to be better suited to high strength characters, and can be enchanted also. Sure there's a composite bow, but it seems you have to plan in advance how high your strength will go to fully take advantage of it. Slings might be good if your name is David. In D&D though, they aren't very good since it takes a move action to reload and there is no feat, to my knowledge, that will allow you to reload faster. If you have quickdraw, you can throw weapons or alchemical items. With a crossbow, you could take rapid reload. Bows are just better all around if you are proficient. The Imp. Grapple was more to prevent myself from being grappled by something of large++ size and appetite. Have you used Stunning Fist alot? Close quarters combat was supposed to be the, "Sorry, but I don't want to grapple with you" feat. Improved grapple does help. If you want to go the stunning fist route, then you need to focus on wisdom. Compare the DC of your stunning fist with the expected fort saves of your opponents. Any particular reason for Imp Trip over Imp Disarm? A kama offers free Imp. Trip, and a sai, free improved disarm. Kamas and sais offer bonuses when tripping or disarming, but don't prevent AoOs, free attacks or other benefits the feats do. A guisarme is a tripping weapon, with reach. Capsule retainers? In what book is Glove of Fortunate Striking found? Miniatures Handbook. Weapon capsules are an item from Complete Adventurer. They allow you to add an effect for a short period, one round for 1d6 fire or cold damage, three rounds for ghost touch.
Mommy was an Orc 10-03-06, 12:56 AM	Kamas and sais offer bonuses when tripping or disarming, but don't prevent AoOs, free attacks or other benefits the feats do. A guisarme is a tripping weapon, with reach. Actually, trip weapons prevent AoOs when making Trip attacks. Page 158 of PHB. But the free attack makes tripping more effective.
solbergb 10-03-06, 02:28 PM	Andy covered most of your questions well. My monk doesn't have stunning fist (he's wisdom 8). I wished I had it though - it is a tactical option different from grappling or tripping with its own advantages. It also is a "disarm" maneuver sort-of. With monks, you want a lot of tricks in your bag, because not everyone is vulnerable to the same stuff. Many grapple counters don't really help against trip (free movement, blinking), and stunning fist is especially good on folks you can't grapple or trip due to spells (flying, free movement). The goal with the monk feats is to pin the opponent in place for a round, so you can followup with a flurry (and incidently, reduce the effectiveness of their counterattack). You get a lot of stunning fists, and while the DC's aren't amazing, it is a low opportunity cost maneuver (you're still punching them after all, even if it fails, unlike trip/grapple where if you fail the attack is wasted) but it can only be done once a round (unlike grapple/trip). I've only had two of the three primary tactical feats in my bag, and I have missed having stunning fist. Imp trip is better than improved disarm, because most bad guys don't have weapons, and the +4 for the feat offsets the -4 for them having four legs. The d20 looms large in trip checks, and unlike disarm, your lower BAB doesn't matter at all. A 25% chance to trip somebody combined with four flurry attacks means you actually have a 69% chance of tripping them that round. Furthermore, even if countertripped, your odds of tripping the guy do not decrease. (it doesn't matter if you're on the ground if the bad guy is too...you've now protected squishies from him and set him up for the melee guys to pound on him). Finally..monk weapons aren't especially good for disarm (quarterstaff is best) and disarmed enemies have a distressing tendency to just draw another weapon or pick up the weapon and hit you with it. Tripped enemies you can either stay near for followup AOO's or step back away from and avoid at least their full attack. imp grapple is an offensive feat. It lets you grapple anything grappleable without fuss. Close quarters combat is a defensive feat. There are bad guys out there that you can't beat in a grapple. You don't want them taking away your monk mobility, so you use close quarters combat (and your free combat reflexes feat) to both avoid the grapple and bloody their nose. For CQC to work, you need to do some damage, and a reach weapon is very helpful given the current faq interpretation. For both reasons, the fighter level to get a "Real" reach weapon is a boon and synergizes well with CQC.
solbergb 10-03-06, 02:37 PM	You want GMW for all of these reasons. They are all important 1. Attack bonus. If you miss, you're useless. You are a point behind a normal fighter because you can't have masterwork fists, and more behind because of BAB loss. 2. damage bonus. You will have one-two more attacks than your fellow fighters, and most at top iterative. You also don't have the +1 enh bonus to damage most fighters already have on their weapons. GMW+3 on a hasted monk with improved flurry addts +12-15 damage. GMW+3 on a hasted L12 2H fighter adds +4-8 damage. 3. affecting incorporeals. Sadly, the FAQ ruled that ki strike magic isn't enough to damage incorporeals, it only penetrates DR. So you have a third escuse to bug the party wiz/cleric/druid. Weapon Capsule Retainers and capsules are found in Complete Adventurer and possibly your local friendly warrior-oriented metaorg or possibly via AR. For a swift action, you can add either 1 round of +d6 cold/frost/fire damage or 3 rounds of ghost touch or silversheen. Subject to availability of Capsules (Burke has the triple retainer access, and has all of the above except fire. I have other characters with no access, and a dwarf warchanter with better access) Like most +d6 enhancements, they're better if you get more attacks. So they're terrific on monks. Gloves of Fortunate Striking are in the Miniatures Handbook. Again you need AR access to get them. They're cheap, only about 2k, and if you wear them for 24 hours to attune, after that you get one attack reroll each day. When you get a lot of attacks, those "1"s come up with alarming frequency, usually on a key touch attack for trip/grapple, or on the finishing blow on a bad guy that will eviscerate you if the final attack misses. So I snapped them up and have coped with lower dex than planned for a couple levels now. If you're going to enchant a martial weapon for 2H power attack, I strongly recommend doing a reach weapon. The main reason is that you'll get far more AOO opportunities to use that single-strike damage on, but it also is important for close quarters combat and in controlling distance and space with your character. You likely won't have the cash to do more than one martial weapon (you'll want bane and special material weapons on the stuff you flurry with, most likely, with the 2h weapon for general purpose stuff), and you want your reach weapon to be a potent threat. Sadly there are no warhammer-like reach weapons, but from a practical standpoint, you might want a piercing or slashing reach weapon anyway, since your fists and feet cover blunt pretty well.
SgtHulka 10-03-06, 03:35 PM	I was thinking of picking up and later enchanting a martial weapon for the 2hand power attack bonus. I was thinking warhammer to fit the image in my head. You can wield a quarterstaff two-handed. As a double weapon, it can be weilded as a seperate one-handed and light weapon or as a two-handed weapon. Not that it matters in your case, because you're taking a level of fighter, anyway, but it's worth pointing out since it's the only special monk weapon that is not light. It's my opinion that you could wield a quarterstaff two-handed during a flurry, attacking with knees and headbutts for the follow-up flurry attacks. Normally that would irrelevant, since you still only get x1 strength damage when hitting with it, but if you're factoring in Power Attack it suddenly becomes interesting. Taking your 14 strength guy, even at 4th level when your unarmed strike increases to 1d8 damage, if you're power attacking even 1 it's better to flurry with two-handed quarterstaff and unarmed strike than double unarmed strike: +1 Quarterstaff 1d6+4 damage and +1 Unarmed strike 1d8+2 damage vs. +1/+1 Unarmed Strike 1d8+2 damage. Other DM's may disagree this is a viable tactic, though. Even if the two-handed flurry is ruled illegal, there's no denying that for single strikes it's handy to have a quarterstaff around for that x1.5 str damage and x2 power attack. Especially since they're free.
beyowulf 10-04-06, 07:06 PM	Slings might be good if your name is David. In D&D though, they aren't very good since it takes a move action to reload and there is no feat, to my knowledge, that will allow you to reload faster. If you have quickdraw, you can throw weapons or alchemical items. With a crossbow, you could take rapid reload. Bows are just better all around if you are proficient. How about shurikens? I think getting them in silvered, cold iron, would be good, and I just realized I can flurry with them!! If you're going to enchant a martial weapon for 2H power attack, I strongly recommend doing a reach weapon. The main reason is that you'll get far more AOO opportunities to use that single-strike damage on, but it also is important for close quarters combat and in controlling distance and space with your character. You likely won't have the cash to do more than one martial weapon (you'll want bane and special material weapons on the stuff you flurry with, most likely, with the 2h weapon for general purpose stuff), and you want your reach weapon to be a potent threat. Sadly there are no warhammer-like reach weapons, but from a practical standpoint, you might want a piercing or slashing reach weapon anyway, since your fists and feet cover blunt pretty well. Any particular enchantment? Someone mentioned Vicious earlier, and from what I see Thundering would good also. Many grapple counters don't really help against trip (free movement, blinking), and stunning fist is especially good on folks you can't grapple or trip due to spells (flying, free movement). The goal with the monk feats is to pin the opponent in place for a round, so you can followup with a flurry (and incidently, reduce the effectiveness of their counterattack). You get a lot of stunning fists, and while the DC's aren't amazing, it is a low opportunity cost maneuver (you're still punching them after all, even if it fails, unlike trip/grapple where if you fail the attack is wasted) but it can only be done once a round (unlike grapple/trip). I've only had two of the three primary tactical feats in my bag, and I have missed having stunning fist. From what you're saying, you can make a Stunning Fist as part of an attack? And even if the opponent makes the DC save, the opponent could still take damage if the attack hits? From some reason I always thought you either made an attack or did a stunning fist. You also implied in your next paragraph that you make Trip attacks as part of an attack?
beyowulf 10-04-06, 10:20 PM	Something just occured to me. If I were to gain access to a limited feat, do you think I could take Improved Natural Ability? DnD FAQ mentions its kosher. Anyone have experience with this?
Iswald 10-04-06, 11:10 PM	How about shurikens? I think getting them in silvered, cold iron, would be good, and I just realized I can flurry with them!! You could, but you won't be doing much damage: 1d2+2 with 14 str. That won't get through DR 5. Ammunition, shurikens being treated as ammunition, made with special materials becomes quite expensive. You also lose it fast too. If you hit with your shuriken, it's destroyed. Normal ammunition has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost if it misses. Silver shurikens would cost 101 gold for 5. Cold iron is less at only 2 gold for 5. Adamantine, something like 15,001 for the same 5. Of course, I could be mistaken about the prices. Cold iron doesn't look that bad price wise. But, how often do you need piercing cold iron? Some spells will work well with ammunition, others less so. Magic weapon won't help with shuriken, but greater magic weapon will, for example. Any particular enchantment? Someone mentioned Vicious earlier, and from what I see Thundering would good also. If you have good luck with dice, have plenty of hps or a high AC, then vicious might be good. Otherwise, holy is something most people are looking for. When looking at special abilities, consider the DCs of the saves too. From what you're saying, you can make a Stunning Fist as part of an attack? And even if the opponent makes the DC save, the opponent could still take damage if the attack hits? From some reason I always thought you either made an attack or did a stunning fist. You also implied in your next paragraph that you make Trip attacks as part of an attack? You make stunning fists as parts of a normal attack, declaring before you attack that you'll do so. Trip attempts take the place of an attack. But, you could attack, trip, and then attack again if you had three attacks. Improved natural ability or improved natural attack? The latter is NPC only which means you couldn't take it.
Mommy was an Orc 10-05-06, 12:57 AM	You could, but you won't be doing much damage: 1d2+2 with 14 str. That won't get through DR 5. Ammunition, shurikens being treated as ammunition, made with special materials becomes quite expensive. You also lose it fast too. If you hit with your shuriken, it's destroyed. Normal ammunition has a 50% chance of being destroyed or lost if it misses. Silver shurikens would cost 101 gold for 5. Cold iron is less at only 2 gold for 5. Adamantine, something like 15,001 for the same 5. Of course, I could be mistaken about the prices. Cold iron doesn't look that bad price wise. But, how often do you need piercing cold iron? Ammunition prices aren't that bad - Silver is +2 gp/ammunition. Adamantine is +3K/weapon, which is supposed to be 50 of them, though it isn't 100% clear in DMG or PHB that it is true. But the FAQ specifies that it is +60 gp/ammunition. In any case, where shuriken are often useful is when you kill something and nothing is within a 5' step of you, yet you still have more attacks in your flurry. Have someone cast GMW on them and a decent strength, and it isn't entirely unlikely that you can do some damage with them.
Lupo 10-05-06, 04:53 AM	Ammunition prices aren't that bad - Silver is +2 gp/ammunition. Adamantine is +3K/weapon, which is supposed to be 50 of them, though it isn't 100% clear in DMG or PHB that it is true. But the FAQ specifies that it is +60 gp/ammunition. In any case, where shuriken are often useful is when you kill something and nothing is within a 5' step of you, yet you still have more attacks in your flurry. Have someone cast GMW on them and a decent strength, and it isn't entirely unlikely that you can do some damage with them. my monk with a decent strength finds them quite nice, from time to time, he only fancies cold iron ones anyway. and will buy some silvered ones, just in case (of masterwork quality). they get better when you have a wizard or cleric enhance them with "greater magic weapon" and "flame arrow". otherwise i wouldn't spend a feat on them, unless you are going for a master-thrower with the nasty "power attack" => "brutal throw" => "power throw" => "weak spot" route. a monk may also flurry with a sai (bludgeoning, 1d4), as the sai has a noted range increment (10-ft) you can also do ranged flurries with it. and sais don't get the sometimes nasty "ammunition" label. another tiny nastiness: a master thrower gets to use his "master thrower tricks" with EVERY thrown weapon he spends a weapon focus on. so a monk - fighter - master thrower may spend a feat at level 9 or 12 and gets an additional weapon to which he can apply the special feats. ciao martin m.
Iswald 10-05-06, 09:56 AM	Ammunition prices aren't that bad - Silver is +2 gp/ammunition. Adamantine is +3K/weapon, which is supposed to be 50 of them, though it isn't 100% clear in DMG or PHB that it is true. But the FAQ specifies that it is +60 gp/ammunition. Guess I should have looked at the DMG first, instead of the FAQ when I was in a hurry. Silver is +2 gp. Adamantine is +60 gp. I was thinking of the weapon costs (+20 gp for a light silver weapon and +3K for adamantine) and not the ammunition costs. The FAQ says to apply the cost individually to each piece. Shurikens come in handfuls of 5 for 1 gp. Adamantine shurikens should be 301 gp for 5 and silver should be 11 gp for 5. Although it does seem like they always round the base cost up to the nearest gold piece. Ie, each shuriken would be 1 gp each plus the cost of the material.
Mommy was an Orc 10-05-06, 11:46 AM	my monk with a decent strength finds them quite nice, from time to time, he only fancies cold iron ones anyway. and will buy some silvered ones, just in case (of masterwork quality). Yeah, my Enlightened Fist is eventually going to do 1d2+12+1d6 with them, plus burst damage on a crit. a monk may also flurry with a sai (bludgeoning, 1d4), as the sai has a noted range increment (10-ft) you can also do ranged flurries with it. and sais don't get the sometimes nasty "ammunition" label. I don't think that's quite that useful unless you have Quickdraw - ammunition is nice because you don't need to spend a move action to draw it...
Mommy was an Orc 10-05-06, 11:46 AM	Guess I should have looked at the DMG first, instead of the FAQ when I was in a hurry. Silver is +2 gp. Adamantine is +60 gp. I was thinking of the weapon costs (+20 gp for a light silver weapon and +3K for adamantine) and not the ammunition costs. The FAQ says to apply the cost individually to each piece. Shurikens come in handfuls of 5 for 1 gp. Adamantine shurikens should be 301 gp for 5 and silver should be 11 gp for 5. Although it does seem like they always round the base cost up to the nearest gold piece. Ie, each shuriken would be 1 gp each plus the cost of the material. Check the pricing of Adamantine Arrows in the FAQ - 20 Adamantine Arrows are 1201 gp.
Iswald 10-05-06, 10:53 PM	Check the pricing of Adamantine Arrows in the FAQ - 20 Adamantine Arrows are 1201 gp. Yes. But, the next question says that they should be 1220 and it's not clearly refuted. Also, in the PHB on page 122, it states that masterwork ammunition costs an extra 6 gold per piece. A set of 10 masterwork arrows costs 70 gp. Each arrow has to cost 7 gp each, which is 6 gp for the masterwork and 1 gp for the base arrow (vs 20 for 1 gp normally or 5 copper each). In the FAQ it's hard, at least for me, to determine how much of the second question is written by Jane Random and how much is from editing to fit into the FAQ. Is the correction to the price from the sage or Jane Random?
solbergb 10-06-06, 01:16 PM	Ok, to answer a few questions on my prior post. On your reach martial weapon, pick an enhancement that will work on most enemies. This weapon will be the one out during the surprise round, when you are getting your combat reflexes AOO's, and will also be what you use when you lack a way to beat DR. I chose vicious because I had an open-ended but max 9k enhancement favor and it absolutely works on everything. Plus I'm just not quite crazy enough to want vicious on a monk weapon and do 5d6 to myself while I'm right next to an enemy, but on a reach weapon I can choose whether to hit the guy and take the damage, or try a tactical move like trip or disarm that doesn't set it off (and if tripped from reach, I can usually safely take the d6 damage since they'll have a harder time retaliating) Something like holy is good, or an element or two. But really, it's just gonna be a +1 reach weapon for a long, long time. Until level 8 at least and maybe not till level 10 or higher. So don't sweat it. By the time you get there you'll know. Stunning fist is done as part of an attack, it isn't a std action thing like multishot. you can only do it once a round, and if you miss the attack it's gone, but it doesn't take away from your flurry sequence (except for any hit/damage difference between your bare fist and any weaopn you might be flurrying with) Adamantine ammo is so badly screwed up in the FAQ due to multiple Sages that I just take the most expensive interpretation . It's only a handful of gold difference either way, so why lose sleep over it?