Knight Tank Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Knight Tank Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nobodez
04-12-07, 01:56 AM This is my first pre-built build, all my others have been either organic builds or rebuilds (and rebuilds of rebuilds of rebuilds).

The Knight Tank
Human Knight 16

S 15, D 12, C 14, I 12, W 8, C 14

Bump Str 3

Knight 1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Shield Specialization
(Heavy), Knight's Challenge, Fighting Challenge +1, Knight's Code
Knight 2 - Mounted Combat, Shield Block +1
Knight 3 - Exotic Armor Proficiency (Battle Plate), Bulwark of Defense
Knight 4 - Armor Mastery (Medium), Test of Mettle
Knight 5 - Ride-by Attack, Vigilant Defender
Knight 6 - Shield Ward, Shield Ally
Knight 7 - Fighting Challenge +2
Knight 8 - Call to Battle
Knight 9 - Retrain EAP to Mountain Plate, Heavy Armor Optimization, Armor
Mastery (Heavy)
Knight 10 - Spirited Charge
Knight 11 - Shield Block +2
Knight 12 - Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, Daunting Challenge
Knight 13 - Fighting Challenge +3
Knight 14 - Improved Shield Ally
Knight 15 - Armor Specialization (Mountain Plate), Trample

I'm confident in the build up through 9th level, when hopefully Mithral access is granted. As soon as Mithral Access is granted, retrain EAP to Mountain Plate, or 9th level, whichever is sooner.

so, what do y'all think?

Skills are: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Ride. Once 5 ranks are in N&R, switch to Locals for Core and Metaregion.
Timlagor
04-12-07, 04:24 AM Why the Bastard Sword?
magebeast
04-12-07, 10:23 AM My question is how this thread ended up rated? It's the only such thread I've ever seen.

Woah, just saw the thread rating tool. Fascinating.
Reska
04-12-07, 11:03 AM One problem I see, is what might be showing up in the FAQ about Heavy Armor Optimization and Mithral. rather, the Sage in the latest Dragon claims tha it HAO doesn't apply to heavy armor made of mithral.
Evanta
04-12-07, 11:20 AM You probably will want power attack somewhere, even if you're 1-handed, there are some circumstances in battle where you will find it advantageous to use it. Out of battle you will have occassional need of it to break stuff.

Not much point having the bastardsword proficiency around. And I agree that knight 9 is decent, you might seriously want to consider multi-classing/prcing out after that though.
mlund
04-12-07, 01:14 PM One problem I see, is what might be showing up in the FAQ about Heavy Armor Optimization and Mithral. rather, the Sage in the latest Dragon claims tha it HAO doesn't apply to heavy armor made of mithral.

Yes, because Heavy Armor made of Mithral counts as Medium Armor.

Which is why the Knight needs Mountain Plate - which when made out of Mithral counts as Heavy Armor by its own rules text. Mountain Plate, from Races of Stone, is like a Super-heavy Armor, weighing in at over 200 lbs. when constructed from steel.

- Marty Lund
Jay_Ibero_911
04-12-07, 04:00 PM Yes, because Heavy Armor made of Mithral counts as Medium Armor.

Which is why the Knight needs Mountain Plate - which when made out of Mithral counts as Heavy Armor by its own rules text. Mountain Plate, from Races of Stone, is like a Super-heavy Armor, weighing in at over 200 lbs. when constructed from steel.

- Marty Lund

Not only that, but asside from 9th level Knights or 5th level Champions of Correlon Larethian, it slows movement even more than normal medium/heavy armors...it's pretty damn impressive to be running around at full movement and almost no armor check penalty in mountain plate, even if it is mithral...
nobodez
04-14-07, 01:03 PM That's the shtick. Oh, and I saw the thread rating thing, and rated my own thread. Never saw it before, but now it's there. Cool.

Okay, well, Unless I go with some levels in Fighter, there's no room for PA. Aside from not having the requisite feats (Spirited Charge/WF (lance)) quickly enough, Cavalier seems like a perfect extension if you want to stay the Mounted route. Perhaps Knt 9/Ftr 2/Cav 4?

Also, a Dwarf build with a Dwarven Waraxe would also work. Just lose the EWP (BS) and gain Weapon Familiarity with the Dwarven Waraxe. Only problem there is that the Armor Mastery doesn't actually do anything anymore, since Dwarves aren't slowed by armor.

I really don't see any good PrC to jump out to.
Ancillary
04-14-07, 02:48 PM With knights the problem is offence. The build you have listed is only doing D10 plus 6ish plus D6 with a frosting bastard sword at level 9. That is peanuts. You will do decent damage if you get a lance charge off, but with only a normal warhorse under you that is not a very consistant thing. With your MAD you cannot get that great a strength and the bonus to using a shield makes going two-handed undesirable. Knights are cool concepts but they just do not have what it takes to be effective in an LG enviroment, if you take nothing but knight levels.

I would suggest taking 3 levels of knight (Their 3rd level ability is powerful, although it is best with reach which means no shield, except improved buckler defense or a cheesy flying one). After that take Charisma synergy classes and mutt youself out. Paladin, Hexblade, Marshal, or even Sorcerer all bring something to the table. At 6th I suggest Outcast Champion, since it is that good if you have a charisma anyway. If you do not wish to be half elf or half orc, just continue to mutt yourself with fighter, etc or choose the old standbys (Occult Slayer, Pious Templar, etc). The key is to increase your damage with class abilities. It doesn't matter what classes you take, you can play a Knight-y character with straight cleric levels if you want.

A final thought is if your region has a knighty PrC (Knights of the Watch, Shielding, etc) being one of them would be kind of the ultimate thing for a knight character, IMO, and they tend to have strict behavioral and entry requiremants that often fit what the knight base class does perfectly. I am not sure what they do mechanically, but as long as they give straight Base Attack it would most likely be worth it just for the role-playing opportunities.
boolean
04-15-07, 12:50 AM Also, a Dwarf build with a Dwarven Waraxe would also work. Just lose the EWP (BS) and gain Weapon Familiarity with the Dwarven Waraxe. Only problem there is that the Armor Mastery doesn't actually do anything anymore, since Dwarves aren't slowed by armor.

If you do decide to use Mountain Plate, then Armor Mastery might still be useful. Even dwarves have their speed reduced by it.

It is debatable how the two would interact. Armor Mastery says the knight can "ignore the standard speed reduction". Mountain Plate doesn't use the standard speed reduction, it uses an even greater one.

The other problem with Dwarven Knights is the charisma penalty. You're reducing the uses per day, duration, and save DC (where applicable) of your Knight's Challenge abilities.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nobodez 04-12-07, 01:56 AM	This is my first pre-built build, all my others have been either organic builds or rebuilds (and rebuilds of rebuilds of rebuilds). The Knight Tank Human Knight 16 S 15, D 12, C 14, I 12, W 8, C 14 Bump Str 3 Knight 1 - Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Bastard Sword), Shield Specialization (Heavy), Knight's Challenge, Fighting Challenge +1, Knight's Code Knight 2 - Mounted Combat, Shield Block +1 Knight 3 - Exotic Armor Proficiency (Battle Plate), Bulwark of Defense Knight 4 - Armor Mastery (Medium), Test of Mettle Knight 5 - Ride-by Attack, Vigilant Defender Knight 6 - Shield Ward, Shield Ally Knight 7 - Fighting Challenge +2 Knight 8 - Call to Battle Knight 9 - Retrain EAP to Mountain Plate, Heavy Armor Optimization, Armor Mastery (Heavy) Knight 10 - Spirited Charge Knight 11 - Shield Block +2 Knight 12 - Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, Daunting Challenge Knight 13 - Fighting Challenge +3 Knight 14 - Improved Shield Ally Knight 15 - Armor Specialization (Mountain Plate), Trample I'm confident in the build up through 9th level, when hopefully Mithral access is granted. As soon as Mithral Access is granted, retrain EAP to Mountain Plate, or 9th level, whichever is sooner. so, what do y'all think? Skills are: Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty), and Ride. Once 5 ranks are in N&R, switch to Locals for Core and Metaregion.
Timlagor 04-12-07, 04:24 AM	Why the Bastard Sword?
magebeast 04-12-07, 10:23 AM	My question is how this thread ended up rated? It's the only such thread I've ever seen. Woah, just saw the thread rating tool. Fascinating.
Reska 04-12-07, 11:03 AM	One problem I see, is what might be showing up in the FAQ about Heavy Armor Optimization and Mithral. rather, the Sage in the latest Dragon claims tha it HAO doesn't apply to heavy armor made of mithral.
Evanta 04-12-07, 11:20 AM	You probably will want power attack somewhere, even if you're 1-handed, there are some circumstances in battle where you will find it advantageous to use it. Out of battle you will have occassional need of it to break stuff. Not much point having the bastardsword proficiency around. And I agree that knight 9 is decent, you might seriously want to consider multi-classing/prcing out after that though.
mlund 04-12-07, 01:14 PM	One problem I see, is what might be showing up in the FAQ about Heavy Armor Optimization and Mithral. rather, the Sage in the latest Dragon claims tha it HAO doesn't apply to heavy armor made of mithral. Yes, because Heavy Armor made of Mithral counts as Medium Armor. Which is why the Knight needs Mountain Plate - which when made out of Mithral counts as Heavy Armor by its own rules text. Mountain Plate, from Races of Stone, is like a Super-heavy Armor, weighing in at over 200 lbs. when constructed from steel. - Marty Lund
Jay_Ibero_911 04-12-07, 04:00 PM	Yes, because Heavy Armor made of Mithral counts as Medium Armor. Which is why the Knight needs Mountain Plate - which when made out of Mithral counts as Heavy Armor by its own rules text. Mountain Plate, from Races of Stone, is like a Super-heavy Armor, weighing in at over 200 lbs. when constructed from steel. - Marty Lund Not only that, but asside from 9th level Knights or 5th level Champions of Correlon Larethian, it slows movement even more than normal medium/heavy armors...it's pretty damn impressive to be running around at full movement and almost no armor check penalty in mountain plate, even if it is mithral...
nobodez 04-14-07, 01:03 PM	That's the shtick. Oh, and I saw the thread rating thing, and rated my own thread. Never saw it before, but now it's there. Cool. Okay, well, Unless I go with some levels in Fighter, there's no room for PA. Aside from not having the requisite feats (Spirited Charge/WF (lance)) quickly enough, Cavalier seems like a perfect extension if you want to stay the Mounted route. Perhaps Knt 9/Ftr 2/Cav 4? Also, a Dwarf build with a Dwarven Waraxe would also work. Just lose the EWP (BS) and gain Weapon Familiarity with the Dwarven Waraxe. Only problem there is that the Armor Mastery doesn't actually do anything anymore, since Dwarves aren't slowed by armor. I really don't see any good PrC to jump out to.
Ancillary 04-14-07, 02:48 PM	With knights the problem is offence. The build you have listed is only doing D10 plus 6ish plus D6 with a frosting bastard sword at level 9. That is peanuts. You will do decent damage if you get a lance charge off, but with only a normal warhorse under you that is not a very consistant thing. With your MAD you cannot get that great a strength and the bonus to using a shield makes going two-handed undesirable. Knights are cool concepts but they just do not have what it takes to be effective in an LG enviroment, if you take nothing but knight levels. I would suggest taking 3 levels of knight (Their 3rd level ability is powerful, although it is best with reach which means no shield, except improved buckler defense or a cheesy flying one). After that take Charisma synergy classes and mutt youself out. Paladin, Hexblade, Marshal, or even Sorcerer all bring something to the table. At 6th I suggest Outcast Champion, since it is that good if you have a charisma anyway. If you do not wish to be half elf or half orc, just continue to mutt yourself with fighter, etc or choose the old standbys (Occult Slayer, Pious Templar, etc). The key is to increase your damage with class abilities. It doesn't matter what classes you take, you can play a Knight-y character with straight cleric levels if you want. A final thought is if your region has a knighty PrC (Knights of the Watch, Shielding, etc) being one of them would be kind of the ultimate thing for a knight character, IMO, and they tend to have strict behavioral and entry requiremants that often fit what the knight base class does perfectly. I am not sure what they do mechanically, but as long as they give straight Base Attack it would most likely be worth it just for the role-playing opportunities.
boolean 04-15-07, 12:50 AM	Also, a Dwarf build with a Dwarven Waraxe would also work. Just lose the EWP (BS) and gain Weapon Familiarity with the Dwarven Waraxe. Only problem there is that the Armor Mastery doesn't actually do anything anymore, since Dwarves aren't slowed by armor. If you do decide to use Mountain Plate, then Armor Mastery might still be useful. Even dwarves have their speed reduced by it. It is debatable how the two would interact. Armor Mastery says the knight can "ignore the standard speed reduction". Mountain Plate doesn't use the standard speed reduction, it uses an even greater one. The other problem with Dwarven Knights is the charisma penalty. You're reducing the uses per day, duration, and save DC (where applicable) of your Knight's Challenge abilities.