Knight to Knight of Holy Shielding build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Knight to Knight of Holy Shielding build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eric Anondson
02-16-07, 01:46 AM Just an experiment. Getting a straight class into the Knight of Holy Shielding PrC isn't easy because of the heavy feat and skill requirements. For those who don't have the August 2004 issue of Dungeon magazine, here are the Knight of Holy Shielding requirements.

Entry Requirements
Alignment: Must be LG, LN or NG.
BAB: +6
Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 9 ranks.
Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (battle axe, lance, or longsword).

The skills and feats requirements clearly favor humans. Straight paladins (or rangers) into KoHS are illadvised because of shear number of feats would push a straight paladin up to level 9 by the time it could qualify. Human: Power Attack, 1st: Cleave, 3rd: Weapon Focus (whatever), 6th: Mounted Combat, 9th Great Cleave... or whatever variation one favors. (Which brings up a great big oops in the article on the KoHS... there are two NPC KoHS who actually cannot have qualified to be Knights at the level they are.)

That said, for a character to go straight into KoHS as a fighter, the character would require a minimum Int score of 12 to be able to qualify by level 7, and will have spent 10 extra skill points into cross class skills (Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion)) that could have been put elsewhere such as Jump or Swim or Intimidate. But 10 skill points for an extra four feats, compared to paladin or ranger, by level 7 might be very valuable.

The best route into KoHS seems to be a mix of paladin and fighter.

But with the Knight class newly available I wanted to give it a go to see how it stacked as a straight class for entry. It turns out that even though the Knight class has Knowledge (nobility and religion), a prospective KoHS is going to need a minimum Int score of 12 (or 14 if not human) to fill the KoHS required skill ranks if the character intends on getting there at level 7. Feats are still going to be a problem with a non-human prospective Knight-to-KoHS character though.

Because Knight gives the character Mounted Combat at 2nd level, this allows a straight Knight (with at minimum Int 12) to qualify for for KoHS at 7th level. Here is what I was thinking of:

Str 15, Dex 14 Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14

1st Knight 1 Human feat: Power Attack, Feat: Weapon Focus (lance), knight's challenge (fighting challenge +1), knight's code.
2nd Knight 2 Mounted Combat, shield block +1
3rd Knight 3 Feat: Cleave, bulwark of defense
4th Knight 4 Armor mastery (medium), knight's challenge (test of mettle) [Str +1]
5th Knight 5 Feat: Ride-By Attack, vigilant defender
6th Knight 6 Feat: Great Cleave, shield ally
7th KoHS 1 Holy realm hero +1, spit on the Old One[**] +2
8th KoHS 2 Armor of the Invincible (i.e. 1/day magic vestment @ caster level = KoHS level x2) [Cha +1]
9th KoHS 3 Feat: Spirited Charge, aura of courage (as paladin ability), holy realm hero +2
10th KoHS 4 Righteous advance (5'-move between Cleaves per Dex bonus)
11th KoHS 5 Holy realm hero +3, spit on the Old One +4
12th KoHS 6 Feat: Favored Power Attack, strength of the Shield Lands (i.e. 1/day divine power @ caster level = KoHS level x2) [Cha +1]
13th KoHS 7 Holy realm hero +4, ruinous advance[***]
14th KoHS 8 Shield of the Invincible (i.e. 1/day shield of law @ caster level = KoHS level x2)
15th KoHS 9 Feat: Armor Optimization, holy realm hero +5, spit on the Old One +6

Holy realm hero are bonuses to Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate. Double this bonus against Shield Landers.
[**] Spit on the Old One functions like favored enemy (and treated as favored enemy for qualifying for prestige classes and feats; works against all agents of Iuz, plus all chaotic evil outsiders). Does not stack with bonuses from favored enemy.
[***] Ruinous advance bestows a bonus equal to the Charisma bonus to attacks and damage during a righteous advance, and a bonus equal to the Charisma bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity during the righteous advance.

So that is what I was considering. There may be more optimal feats at higher levels to maximize mounted charging, but I've never played a mounted character before. I stepped back and considered 6 levels of fighter vs. 6 levels in knight. Going fighter I would get 2 more bonus fighter feats and lose 2 skill points and 7 hit points compared to 6 levels in the knight base class. I think I am pleased with the special abilities of 6 levels in the knight base class. This would be pretty fun to play in the Shield Lands and throughout the rest of the Iuz meta-region.
tvknight415
02-16-07, 01:46 PM I like the idea. I'm working on a knight build for my cleric's cohort and was thinking something similar (but going cavalier instead of KoHS, being a Pelorite cleric wanting a Mayaheine knightly cohort and all). You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally.
Jay_Ibero_911
02-16-07, 04:19 PM I like the idea. I'm working on a knight build for my cleric's cohort and was thinking something similar (but going cavalier instead of KoHS, being a Pelorite cleric wanting a Mayaheine knightly cohort and all). You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally.

Well, he might consider adding 1 level of fighter, becase he still gets a feat out of knight 5.
Eric Anondson
02-16-07, 04:21 PM You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally.That might be a really good compromise. Dropping 2 levels of Knight would involve dropping one bonus Knight feat, specifically in this case, Ride-By Attack, which I would have to grab back with one of the fighter bonus feats. So at best, I would only drop one Knight class level, and by extension the shield ally class ability, to get a single Fighter level.

Now, as an aside, it is must be acknowledged that the KoHS could choose paladin special mount divine advancement (see the article) for his KoHS levels, but because I hadn't chosen any paladin levels the character wouldn't get a paladin special mount until the 10th KoHS level... in other words, 16th level. :censored: Pretty much why I didn't bother to call out my choice for divine advancement. But if I took a single level in paladin I could get a paladin special mount at 14th level... Ehh...

Odds are this character would be riding a heavy warhorse until joining the Shield Lands Standing Army Griffon Riders metaorg... then he'd slowly raise his griffon until it is ridable. Is there one really good feat worth taking for a mounted charger who doesn't have any special mount? I dunno. What it might let me do is move the later feats up in levels and be able to take Improved Critical (lance) at level 9... :thinks: Shield ally vs. Improved Critical...
RLWilde
02-17-07, 01:01 AM Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 9 ranks.

(disclaimer... I have neither the Dungeon magazine in question, nor the PH2, so my assumptions may be off)

How many skill points per level does the Knight get? Assuming it's 2, then an Int of 12 (10 for humans) should suffice.

Diplomacy 2 ranks (4 points)
Knowledge (local) 4 ranks (8 points)
Knowledge (nobility) 2 ranks (2 points)
Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks (4 points)
Ride 9 ranks (9 points)

So, a total of 27 skill points, requiring a total of 3 per level (quadrupled at first level).

A straight-classed fighter should also be able to qualify, if he wants to use a feat for Open Minded's 5 skill points.

Unless, of course, I'm missing something obvious, which is certainly possible. :)
Eric Anondson
02-17-07, 01:51 AM (disclaimer... I have neither the Dungeon magazine in question, nor the PH2, so my assumptions may be off)

How many skill points per level does the Knight get? Assuming it's 2, then an Int of 12 (10 for humans) should suffice.You are correct. I found where I did my math incorrectly. I stopped counting at level 5 because I had it in my brain that KoHS would be taken at 6th level. Total brain fart.

Glad to have someone re-check my math on this. I think I'll move two points from Int to Dex.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eric Anondson 02-16-07, 01:46 AM	Just an experiment. Getting a straight class into the Knight of Holy Shielding PrC isn't easy because of the heavy feat and skill requirements. For those who don't have the August 2004 issue of Dungeon magazine, here are the Knight of Holy Shielding requirements. Entry Requirements Alignment: Must be LG, LN or NG. BAB: +6 Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 9 ranks. Feats: Cleave, Great Cleave, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (battle axe, lance, or longsword). The skills and feats requirements clearly favor humans. Straight paladins (or rangers) into KoHS are illadvised because of shear number of feats would push a straight paladin up to level 9 by the time it could qualify. Human: Power Attack, 1st: Cleave, 3rd: Weapon Focus (whatever), 6th: Mounted Combat, 9th Great Cleave... or whatever variation one favors. (Which brings up a great big oops in the article on the KoHS... there are two NPC KoHS who actually cannot have qualified to be Knights at the level they are.) That said, for a character to go straight into KoHS as a fighter, the character would require a minimum Int score of 12 to be able to qualify by level 7, and will have spent 10 extra skill points into cross class skills (Diplomacy, Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion)) that could have been put elsewhere such as Jump or Swim or Intimidate. But 10 skill points for an extra four feats, compared to paladin or ranger, by level 7 might be very valuable. The best route into KoHS seems to be a mix of paladin and fighter. But with the Knight class newly available I wanted to give it a go to see how it stacked as a straight class for entry. It turns out that even though the Knight class has Knowledge (nobility and religion), a prospective KoHS is going to need a minimum Int score of 12 (or 14 if not human) to fill the KoHS required skill ranks if the character intends on getting there at level 7. Feats are still going to be a problem with a non-human prospective Knight-to-KoHS character though. Because Knight gives the character Mounted Combat at 2nd level, this allows a straight Knight (with at minimum Int 12) to qualify for for KoHS at 7th level. Here is what I was thinking of: Str 15, Dex 14 Con 14, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 14 1st Knight 1 Human feat: Power Attack, Feat: Weapon Focus (lance), knight's challenge (fighting challenge +1), knight's code. 2nd Knight 2 Mounted Combat, shield block +1 3rd Knight 3 Feat: Cleave, bulwark of defense 4th Knight 4 Armor mastery (medium), knight's challenge (test of mettle) [Str +1] 5th Knight 5 Feat: Ride-By Attack, vigilant defender 6th Knight 6 Feat: Great Cleave, shield ally 7th KoHS 1 Holy realm hero +1, spit on the Old One[] +2 8th KoHS 2 Armor of the Invincible (i.e. 1/day magic vestment @ caster level = KoHS level x2) [Cha +1] 9th KoHS 3 Feat: Spirited Charge, aura of courage (as paladin ability), holy realm hero +2 10th KoHS 4 Righteous advance (5'-move between Cleaves per Dex bonus) 11th KoHS 5 Holy realm hero +3, spit on the Old One +4 12th KoHS 6 Feat: Favored Power Attack, strength of the Shield Lands (i.e. 1/day divine power @ caster level = KoHS level x2) [Cha +1] 13th KoHS 7 Holy realm hero +4, ruinous advance[] 14th KoHS 8 Shield of the Invincible (i.e. 1/day shield of law @ caster level = KoHS level x2) 15th KoHS 9 Feat: Armor Optimization, holy realm hero +5, spit on the Old One +6 Holy realm hero are bonuses to Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate. Double this bonus against Shield Landers. [] Spit on the Old One functions like favored enemy (and treated as favored enemy for qualifying for prestige classes and feats; works against all agents of Iuz, plus all chaotic evil outsiders). Does not stack with bonuses from favored enemy. [**] Ruinous advance bestows a bonus equal to the Charisma bonus to attacks and damage during a righteous advance, and a bonus equal to the Charisma bonus to AC against attacks of opportunity during the righteous advance. So that is what I was considering. There may be more optimal feats at higher levels to maximize mounted charging, but I've never played a mounted character before. I stepped back and considered 6 levels of fighter vs. 6 levels in knight. Going fighter I would get 2 more bonus fighter feats and lose 2 skill points and 7 hit points compared to 6 levels in the knight base class. I think I am pleased with the special abilities of 6 levels in the knight base class. This would be pretty fun to play in the Shield Lands and throughout the rest of the Iuz meta-region.
tvknight415 02-16-07, 01:46 PM	I like the idea. I'm working on a knight build for my cleric's cohort and was thinking something similar (but going cavalier instead of KoHS, being a Pelorite cleric wanting a Mayaheine knightly cohort and all). You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-16-07, 04:19 PM	I like the idea. I'm working on a knight build for my cleric's cohort and was thinking something similar (but going cavalier instead of KoHS, being a Pelorite cleric wanting a Mayaheine knightly cohort and all). You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally. Well, he might consider adding 1 level of fighter, becase he still gets a feat out of knight 5.
Eric Anondson 02-16-07, 04:21 PM	You might want to consider mixing in two levels of fighter; two extra feats for two less HP if you can live without vigilant defender & shield ally.That might be a really good compromise. Dropping 2 levels of Knight would involve dropping one bonus Knight feat, specifically in this case, Ride-By Attack, which I would have to grab back with one of the fighter bonus feats. So at best, I would only drop one Knight class level, and by extension the shield ally class ability, to get a single Fighter level. Now, as an aside, it is must be acknowledged that the KoHS could choose paladin special mount divine advancement (see the article) for his KoHS levels, but because I hadn't chosen any paladin levels the character wouldn't get a paladin special mount until the 10th KoHS level... in other words, 16th level. :censored: Pretty much why I didn't bother to call out my choice for divine advancement. But if I took a single level in paladin I could get a paladin special mount at 14th level... Ehh... Odds are this character would be riding a heavy warhorse until joining the Shield Lands Standing Army Griffon Riders metaorg... then he'd slowly raise his griffon until it is ridable. Is there one really good feat worth taking for a mounted charger who doesn't have any special mount? I dunno. What it might let me do is move the later feats up in levels and be able to take Improved Critical (lance) at level 9... :thinks: Shield ally vs. Improved Critical...
RLWilde 02-17-07, 01:01 AM	Skills: Diplomacy 2 ranks, Knowledge (local) 4 ranks, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) 2 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks, Ride 9 ranks. (disclaimer... I have neither the Dungeon magazine in question, nor the PH2, so my assumptions may be off) How many skill points per level does the Knight get? Assuming it's 2, then an Int of 12 (10 for humans) should suffice. Diplomacy 2 ranks (4 points) Knowledge (local) 4 ranks (8 points) Knowledge (nobility) 2 ranks (2 points) Knowledge (religion) 2 ranks (4 points) Ride 9 ranks (9 points) So, a total of 27 skill points, requiring a total of 3 per level (quadrupled at first level). A straight-classed fighter should also be able to qualify, if he wants to use a feat for Open Minded's 5 skill points. Unless, of course, I'm missing something obvious, which is certainly possible. :)
Eric Anondson 02-17-07, 01:51 AM	(disclaimer... I have neither the Dungeon magazine in question, nor the PH2, so my assumptions may be off) How many skill points per level does the Knight get? Assuming it's 2, then an Int of 12 (10 for humans) should suffice.You are correct. I found where I did my math incorrectly. I stopped counting at level 5 because I had it in my brain that KoHS would be taken at 6th level. Total brain fart. Glad to have someone re-check my math on this. I think I'll move two points from Int to Dex.