Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 02:23 PM	This build combines the Knight and Champion of Corellon PrCs to get a high AC and movement. Attack bonuses are fairly low. Race: Wood Elf Str 14, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 1: Knight 1 - Weapon Focus (Longsword) 2: Knight 2 - *Mounted Combat 3: Knight 3 - Combat Expertise 4: Knight 4 - Con 14 5: Knight 5 - *Iron Will 6: Knight 6 - Dodge 7: Ranger 1 - Track 8: Champion of Corellon 1 - **Ride-by-Attack, Dex 15 9: Champion of Corellon 2 - Heavy Armor Optimization 10: Champion of Corellon 3 11: Champion of Corellon 4 - **Spirited Charge 12: Champion of Corellon 5 - Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, Dex 16 13: Champion of Corellon 6 14: Champion of Corellon 7 - **Mobility 15: Champion of Corellon 8 - Exotic Armor Proficiency (Mountain Plate) At 15th, this build has a 34 AC while wearing +3 Mithral Mountain Plate and using a +3 Heavy Shield (only includes Armor, Shield, and Dex bonuses), and can move 30 ft. before buffs. As I said earlier, it's attack bonuses are pitiful. At 15th while using a +3 Longsword and with +Str gear, it only has +20/+15/+10 to hit for 1d8+8 damage. Saves are good when buffed. This build could be designated a "cork" and probably not much else.
Mommy was an Orc 03-28-07, 02:58 PM	Hmm. Why are you a Wood Elf - you're essentially a 25 point buy half-elf(or snow elf). Why not Ranger at 1st? With Ranger at 1st and taking Endurance as your Knight bonus feat, it wouldn't be hard to pick up 2 levels of Wildrunner... Also, you might have issues with Champion of Corellon in terms of alignment.
King Kashue 03-28-07, 03:03 PM	Also, you might have issues with Champion of Corellon in terms of alignment. Yeah, hopefully the new Deities document will clarify that completely (It's not that unclear though)...
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 03:48 PM	Hmm. Why are you a Wood Elf - you're essentially a 25 point buy half-elf(or snow elf). Why not Ranger at 1st? With Ranger at 1st and taking Endurance as your Knight bonus feat, it wouldn't be hard to pick up 2 levels of Wildrunner... Also, you might have issues with Champion of Corellon in terms of alignment. Why would I have problems with alignment? The LGCS says only clerics and paladins have to follow alignment restrictions. This build uses neither. If alignment were an issue, the PrC would require one to be Chaotic Good or within one step.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-28-07, 03:57 PM	Why would I have problems with alignment? The LGCS says only clerics and paladins have to follow alignment restrictions. This build uses neither. If alignment were an issue, the PrC would require one to be Chaotic Good or within one step. From the Deities Document: In the following notes, references to cleric/favored soul include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which requires a specific deity, such as... A cleric/favored soul's alignment must be within one step of its deity (either on the law-chaos axis or the good-evil one, but not both). Champion of Corellon Larethian is a prestige class which requires a specific deity. Corellon Larethian is Chaotic Good. Therefore, the only legal allignments for a Champion of Corellon Larethian are CG, CN, or NG. Of course, this is not the case if the document intended it to only mean divine spellcasting prestige classes, but we have no way to tell...
King Kashue 03-28-07, 03:58 PM	Why would I have problems with alignment? The LGCS says only clerics and paladins have to follow alignment restrictions. This build uses neither. If alignment were an issue, the PrC would require one to be Chaotic Good or within one step. The restriction is in the Deities document. However, as discussed the previous time this came up, champion of Corellon is not mentioned, even though Races of the Wild was out by that point, and the passage seems to refer only to spell casting classes.
King Kashue 03-28-07, 03:59 PM	Champion of Corellon Larethian is a prestige class which requires a specific deity. Corellon Larethian is Chaotic Good. Therefore, the only legal allignments for a Champion of Corellon Larethian are CG, CN, or NG. And if Champion of Corellon was a "spellcasting class", you'd be dead on. :D But it's not. And it is possible to tell that it refers only to spell-casting classes because Evangelist They're also not part of the list of examples of spellcasting classes. "In the following notes, references to druid/paladin include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class which DOES NOT requires (sic) a specific deity, but for which the character has chosen to serve a specific deity, such as Divine Oracle, Entropomancer, Holy Liberator, Hospitaler, Ranger, Sacred Fist, Seeker of the Misty Isle, and Warpriest. It also includes Evangelists who choose to represent a specific diety." List of spellcasting classes and Prcs, then a full stop (list over). Then another class which the druid/paladin reference includes that doesn't fit in the previous list (hence the "also", i.e., "in addition").
Jay_Ibero_911 03-28-07, 04:00 PM	And if Champion of Corellon was a "spellcasting class", you'd be dead on. :D But it's not. You see, that's where the document requires clarification. It doesn't specifically limit it to divine spellcasting prestige classes. It just says prestige classes.
King Kashue 03-28-07, 04:01 PM	You see, that's where the document requires clarification. It doesn't specifically limit it to divine spellcasting prestige classes. It just says prestige classes. See the part of the post that wasn't there because you responded too fast and I didn't add it in the first place :D That is "spell-casting" as an adjective distributed to both nouns, i.e., "spellcasting class or spellcasting prestige class"... If it wasn't, the portion regarding the evangelist wouldn't be phrased the way it is (and more importantly, since the list includes every example from books out to that point, and the Champion of Corellon isn't on there, but had been released, it's almost certainly excluded).
Mommy was an Orc 03-28-07, 04:08 PM	Why would I have problems with alignment? The LGCS says only clerics and paladins have to follow alignment restrictions. This build uses neither. If alignment were an issue, the PrC would require one to be Chaotic Good or within one step. LG Deities document says 'references to cleric/favored soul include any other divine spellcasting class or prestige class that requires a specific deity, such as...' It doesn't include Champion of Corellon, but Champion of Corellon is a prestige class that requires a specific deity. The only question is whether or not the Circle meant: "Any other divine spellcasting class or divine spellcasting prestige class that requires a specific deity, such as..." or "Any other divine spellcasting class that requires a specific deity or prestige class that requires a specific deity, such as..." It seems pretty likely to get clarified in Deities 3.0 and not in the way your build needs it to be clarified...
King Kashue 03-28-07, 04:11 PM	It seems pretty likely to get clarified in Deities 3.0 and not in the way your build needs it to be clarified... :rolleyes: The way he needs it clarified is the way both the Evangelist sentence and the omission of the Champ class from the examples suggest. I.e., that Champ of Corellon isn't included (because if it was, it already would be).
Jay_Ibero_911 03-28-07, 04:13 PM	See the part of the post that wasn't there because you responded too fast and I didn't add it in the first place :D That is "spell-casting" as an adjective distributed to both nouns, i.e., "spellcasting class or spellcasting prestige class"... If it wasn't, the portion regarding the evangelist wouldn't be phrased the way it is (and more importantly, since the list includes every example from books out to that point, and the Champion of Corellon isn't on there, but had been released, it's almost certainly excluded). It's certainly a possible interpretation the the divine spellcasting is intended to apply to both classes and prestige classes, but there's no way to know for sure without clarification. It's also an assumption that CoCL was intentionally excluded, as the current deities document was released less than a month after RotW came out, so it's quite possible that it was simply overlooked. Unfortunately, I no longer have a copy of the LGCS 595, and I don't remember if RotW had been implemented then, so I can't check and see if it was even part of the campaign at that time... [Edit] Nevermind...the Sky domain appears in the document, so RotW clearly had been implemented at the time...
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 04:14 PM	It seems pretty likely to get clarified in Deities 3.0 and not in the way your build needs it to be clarified... Meh, that's fine. It'll just have to go from being Lawful Good to Neutral Good, and retain all Knight abilities except it's Challenges. Not a great loss considering it doesn't get many anyway.
Mommy was an Orc 03-28-07, 04:14 PM	:rolleyes: The way he needs it clarified is the way both the Evangelist sentence and the omission of the Champ class from the examples suggest. I.e., that Champ of Corellon isn't included (because if it was, it already would be). You're talking about a document that was supposed to have a 2.1 released in a few days after March 2nd, 2005. If it doesn't pretend it was thorough, staking a claim on a build on that basis is pretty weak...
King Kashue 03-28-07, 04:17 PM	You're talking about a document that was supposed to have a 2.1 released in a few days after March 2nd, 2005. If it doesn't pretend it was thorough, staking a claim on a build on that basis is pretty weak... It includes material from Races of the Wild, and it includes every example of a spellcasting class for materials that had been released to that point. So it either included every possible example, or it included every possible example but left out the Champ class. And the latter interpretation doesn't account for the Evangelist sentence, but the former does. It's not certain, but it is probable.
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 04:25 PM	Hmm. Why are you a Wood Elf - you're essentially a 25 point buy half-elf(or snow elf). Why not Ranger at 1st? With Ranger at 1st and taking Endurance as your Knight bonus feat, it wouldn't be hard to pick up 2 levels of Wildrunner... Also, you might have issues with Champion of Corellon in terms of alignment. Is there any feat similar to Orc-Blooded that make a character that takes it an Elf? Take it as a Human's bonus feat and I would have enough skill points to qualify for Wildrunner at 5th and Champion of Corellon at 8th.
LachlarlanIII 03-28-07, 04:51 PM	Revised Build. Race: Half-Elf Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10 1: Ranger 1 - Weapon Focus (Longsword), *Track 2: Knight 1 3: Knight 2 - Combat Expertise, *Mounted Combat 4: Knight 3 - Str 16 5: Knight 4 6: Knight 5 - Dodge, *Endurance 7: Wildrunner 1 8: Wildrunner 2 - Str 17 9: Champion of Corellon 1 - Heavy Armor Optimization, **Ride-by-Attack 10: Champion of Corellon 2 11: Champion of Corellon 3 12: Champion of Corellon 4 - Greater Heavy Armor Optimization, **Spirited Charge, Str 18 13: Champion of Corellon 5 14: Champion of Corellon 6 15: Champion of Corellon 7 - Exotic Armor Proficiency (Mountain Plate), **Mobility This build gains Primal Scream at the expense of Corellon's Wrath.
Munchausen 03-31-07, 02:34 PM	Hmm well I am always torn between a half-elf and a full elf (be it Grey, Wood ect). Yes point wise with the Wood elf you are kinda not getting the bang per point type thing, BUT the nice thing about being a full elf (depends on what class you take) is that they really only need 4 hr to meditate (which = 8 hrs of rest), and yes you do get some decent built in Proficiencies with it (which the Half elf does not). For me just having the 4 hr rest has saved myself and the party many many times (and the immune to sleep spell too, even thougth half elves do have that.. I have yet really run into people that play Half Elves). So remember.. All hail Pholtus.. (ummm yeah... NOT)