Kobold Build Ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kobold Build Ideas? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
kinevon
03-21-08, 10:28 PM Okay, let's just drop all my current build ideas. I admit to confusion. You don't even want to think about my current human fighter build...

So, instead, how about some kobold build ideas for me. I just recently got access to the card, and may never get to play this character.

Some things about me:

I tend to go for the simple (initially) fighter-types.
I sometimes get confused or just plain forget about spellcasting for gish-types. (warmages and duskblades, for example)
I prefer to get all stats up high enough to at least get no penalties for things like saving throws.
Common will be optional for this kobold, so a high enough Int for additional languages is not required.

So, suggestions for stats and class(es), whether or not (if applicable) the dragonblood or kobold substitution levels are worthwhile, or if some of the levels are and others aren't. Also,any ideas for PrC destination, unlikely as it is. ;)
JamesMaissen
03-22-08, 12:21 AM Why do you want to play a kobold?

-James
kinevon
03-22-08, 12:45 AM Why do you want to play a kobold?

Because it is unusual. I like the idea of running a miniature dragon. And it might be amusing to play a PC who cannot easily communicate with the rest of his party. Without having to play a gigantic furball (aka Wookie in Star Wars).

And I might as well try something totally different than my normal Human Fighter... Hopefully, it will teach me more about running characters with more subtle abilities than "Fighter ... Bash!".
UMiskatonic
03-22-08, 12:56 AM Kobolds are small and quick. This makes me think that a kobold archer could work decently well. You could really be almost any class, three feats and you're there.

For a tiny, not uber-strong guy, I'd go with Scout. You'll want that bonus damage, and you'll be an effective scout with small size and good dex.
magebeast
03-22-08, 02:25 AM I prefer to get all stats up high enough to at least get no penalties for things like saving throws.

I think that this is likely to be your biggest problem. Kobolds have some pretty hefty penalties and high stats is not one of their strong points.
Puggle Halfwine
03-22-08, 07:20 AM Just a little note on the languages thing...

While it can be fun to play a character who doesn't speak Common in a home game, or even in an LG mod not run at a convention, I've found that it can be just something that annoys the other players. Especially if nobody can translate for you, and *especially* if you ask for everything to be manually translated rather than assuming someone is doing it for you.

It can also be seen as a way to hog a great deal of the spotlight/GM's time, something that everyone is guilty of from time to time (especially me) but shouldn't be a recurring thing.
kinevon
03-22-08, 10:59 AM Ehh. It was an amusing idea, more than something likely to happen. After all, any tiime you find you need more skills, you wind up with more Int, and another language...
JamesMaissen
03-22-08, 01:28 PM Because it is unusual. I like the idea of running a miniature dragon. And it might be amusing to play a PC who cannot easily communicate with the rest of his party. Without having to play a gigantic furball (aka Wookie in Star Wars).

And I might as well try something totally different than my normal Human Fighter... Hopefully, it will teach me more about running characters with more subtle abilities than "Fighter ... Bash!".

Well a few things here:

1st be careful of the 'ooh shiny' mentality. If you're going to play the character for more than a few times (3-4) then its going to need to be something that you will really enjoy.

2nd A disclaimer of mine: I've seen too many people go for 'weird' without fully thinking it through. My advice is to give this character serious thought.

3rd the constraints that you want to put on this character I don't think fit a kobold. You will have some negative ability scores.. heck there's nothing wrong with them. A -1 to a check vs a +0 is no more different than having a +1 instead of a +2... it's a linear scale. The context where it matters is where the DCs and what you want to accomplish come into play.

Towards the other constraint: no spellcaster. I would suggest that small races make better casters than other classes in general. For the other noncasters I think you will find that deep halfling will fairly outshine a kobold enough that it might annoy you.

But if you progress beyond the 'it's shiny' and start to solidify what it is you want from the character then you can be able to see how viable and interesting it really will be for you.

I would suggest that you consider a small sized spell caster, but not automatically go with kobold. That should be new enough to you to be interesting and you'd pick up a decent amount just doing so. I would suggest either a fixed list spontaneous caster (warmage, beguiler) or a wizard. A sorcerer requires too many up front choices for you.. get your feet wet first.

-James
Hariman
03-22-08, 07:11 PM I would suggest that you consider a small sized spell caster, but not automatically go with kobold. That should be new enough to you to be interesting and you'd pick up a decent amount just doing so. I would suggest either a fixed list spontaneous caster (warmage, beguiler) or a wizard. A sorcerer requires too many up front choices for you.. get your feet wet first.

-James

I recommend Warmage over Beguiler for an "easy choice" caster. Beguilers are a lot harder to play and have more weaknesses than a warmage.

For a melee class, I recommend either Fighter or Rogue. Fighters can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and weapon mastery to boost to hit rolls and damage.

You will NEED Kobold Fighter Sub Levels 2 and 4, as they remove the worst of Kobold penalties. Also, you will have to take penalties somewhere, as Kobold ability penalties are brutal and you'll need those points for Strength and Con, and preferably INT 12 if you don't want to spend the skill points on Common.

But keep in mind, unless you are a "TWF Blender Rogue", you'll probably not be as effective as other races are in melee. Barbarian levels and the Reckless Rage feat can help with damage, but you'll still lag behind other races.

No matter what, you'll be playing against a Kobold's strengths by trying to make a melee character out of him. I think that you should look through the older Kobold threads on this board to find the melee builds.

Hariman
Koushiro
03-23-08, 08:20 PM While it can be fun to play a character who doesn't speak Common in a home game, or even in an LG mod not run at a convention, I've found that it can be just something that annoys the other players. Especially if nobody can translate for you, and *especially* if you ask for everything to be manually translated rather than assuming someone is doing it for you.

We have someone here in the Shield Lands who runs his barbarian like that and at every table he's at and it's a a lot of fun! Just be creative in how you interact with the others and you'd be fine. Scout sounds like a good build to go with, as it makes you even faster for a small creature.
kinevon
03-26-08, 05:25 PM Okay, I want to play a kobold because I really want to play a kobold character. But I figure, since kobolds make a less-then-optimum fighter, even with sub levels 2 & 4, that I might as well work him in a different style than my norm.

So, just some questions:

What classes make good synergy to multi-class into from, say, Marshal?

How about with Scout?

What would be a "good" set of stats for a Marshal, besides as high a Charisma as possible?

How about a Scout, Dexterity & Wisdom? Is Rogue a good combo with Scout, or is there a lot of redundancy there?
_metz_
03-27-08, 07:35 AM The reason you keep being asked as to why you want to play a kobold, is that a badly thought out 'novelty' character won't work.

You should have a character concept first, and then find something that works for it.

If you are playing a kobold for the sake of playing a kobold, you should either be a sorceror, a cleric/singer of concordance, or potentially a rogue.

Thats if you to take advantage of the card.

I posted build advice once before, and you changed your mind 3-4 times RADICALLY. I won't post again till I am certain of the following:

1. You will not change your mind/create a new thread
2. You will listen to the advice, as long as it is reasonable
3. You can justify to us in a roleplay fashion the inclusion of suboptimal things, saying 'just cos I want to' is not good enough.

We are here to hep you build a character, but you need to have some idea first. If you want just ideas on what to do with your kobold card, may I suggest you look through previous threads (see the search function)
kinevon
03-28-08, 05:02 AM Okay, I think I have my concept, which is going to be heavily toward support/healing, rather than a more active combat role.

Kobold
Healer
Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16
Skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (religion)
Feat: Augment Healing
Armor: None (not planning on going into melee)
Weapon: Longspear (nil damage, but should be good for aid another from reach)
Mount: Warpony (not enough gold for a riding dog, but can scrimp to get a warpony with gear)

Not yet decided: Draconic Rite of Passage spell
Future feat progression.
Prc: Singer of Concordance seems like a good fit, if he lives that long. ;)
Hariman
03-29-08, 10:13 PM Okay, I think I have my concept, which is going to be heavily toward support/healing, rather than a more active combat role.

Kobold
Healer
Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16
Skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (religion)
Feat: Augment Healing
Armor: None (not planning on going into melee)
Weapon: Longspear (nil damage, but should be good for aid another from reach)
Mount: Warpony (not enough gold for a riding dog, but can scrimp to get a warpony with gear)

Not yet decided: Draconic Rite of Passage spell
Future feat progression.
Prc: Singer of Concordance seems like a good fit, if he lives that long. ;)

If you drop charisma to 14 (or maybe even 12), raise strength to 10 or 12, and take a 12 con, you'll be better off as a cleric.

Clerics bring turning, buffing and the ability to defend themselves/self buff when needed.

Healers just heal.

You'll be better off as a cleric. Heck, you'd be better off as a bard/dracolexi.
Timlagor
03-31-08, 12:41 PM Not if you want to be a Healer.
Hariman
04-01-08, 08:14 PM Not if you want to be a Healer.

True.

There's worse classes out there. And worse class combinations. Not to mention that healing IS vital for all parties. I just prefer the versatility of a cleric over the focused nature of the healer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kinevon 03-21-08, 10:28 PM	Okay, let's just drop all my current build ideas. I admit to confusion. You don't even want to think about my current human fighter build... So, instead, how about some kobold build ideas for me. I just recently got access to the card, and may never get to play this character. Some things about me: I tend to go for the simple (initially) fighter-types. I sometimes get confused or just plain forget about spellcasting for gish-types. (warmages and duskblades, for example) I prefer to get all stats up high enough to at least get no penalties for things like saving throws. Common will be optional for this kobold, so a high enough Int for additional languages is not required. So, suggestions for stats and class(es), whether or not (if applicable) the dragonblood or kobold substitution levels are worthwhile, or if some of the levels are and others aren't. Also,any ideas for PrC destination, unlikely as it is. ;)
JamesMaissen 03-22-08, 12:21 AM	Why do you want to play a kobold? -James
kinevon 03-22-08, 12:45 AM	Why do you want to play a kobold? Because it is unusual. I like the idea of running a miniature dragon. And it might be amusing to play a PC who cannot easily communicate with the rest of his party. Without having to play a gigantic furball (aka Wookie in Star Wars). And I might as well try something totally different than my normal Human Fighter... Hopefully, it will teach me more about running characters with more subtle abilities than "Fighter ... Bash!".
UMiskatonic 03-22-08, 12:56 AM	Kobolds are small and quick. This makes me think that a kobold archer could work decently well. You could really be almost any class, three feats and you're there. For a tiny, not uber-strong guy, I'd go with Scout. You'll want that bonus damage, and you'll be an effective scout with small size and good dex.
magebeast 03-22-08, 02:25 AM	I prefer to get all stats up high enough to at least get no penalties for things like saving throws. I think that this is likely to be your biggest problem. Kobolds have some pretty hefty penalties and high stats is not one of their strong points.
Puggle Halfwine 03-22-08, 07:20 AM	Just a little note on the languages thing... While it can be fun to play a character who doesn't speak Common in a home game, or even in an LG mod not run at a convention, I've found that it can be just something that annoys the other players. Especially if nobody can translate for you, and especially if you ask for everything to be manually translated rather than assuming someone is doing it for you. It can also be seen as a way to hog a great deal of the spotlight/GM's time, something that everyone is guilty of from time to time (especially me) but shouldn't be a recurring thing.
kinevon 03-22-08, 10:59 AM	Ehh. It was an amusing idea, more than something likely to happen. After all, any tiime you find you need more skills, you wind up with more Int, and another language...
JamesMaissen 03-22-08, 01:28 PM	Because it is unusual. I like the idea of running a miniature dragon. And it might be amusing to play a PC who cannot easily communicate with the rest of his party. Without having to play a gigantic furball (aka Wookie in Star Wars). And I might as well try something totally different than my normal Human Fighter... Hopefully, it will teach me more about running characters with more subtle abilities than "Fighter ... Bash!". Well a few things here: 1st be careful of the 'ooh shiny' mentality. If you're going to play the character for more than a few times (3-4) then its going to need to be something that you will really enjoy. 2nd A disclaimer of mine: I've seen too many people go for 'weird' without fully thinking it through. My advice is to give this character serious thought. 3rd the constraints that you want to put on this character I don't think fit a kobold. You will have some negative ability scores.. heck there's nothing wrong with them. A -1 to a check vs a +0 is no more different than having a +1 instead of a +2... it's a linear scale. The context where it matters is where the DCs and what you want to accomplish come into play. Towards the other constraint: no spellcaster. I would suggest that small races make better casters than other classes in general. For the other noncasters I think you will find that deep halfling will fairly outshine a kobold enough that it might annoy you. But if you progress beyond the 'it's shiny' and start to solidify what it is you want from the character then you can be able to see how viable and interesting it really will be for you. I would suggest that you consider a small sized spell caster, but not automatically go with kobold. That should be new enough to you to be interesting and you'd pick up a decent amount just doing so. I would suggest either a fixed list spontaneous caster (warmage, beguiler) or a wizard. A sorcerer requires too many up front choices for you.. get your feet wet first. -James
Hariman 03-22-08, 07:11 PM	I would suggest that you consider a small sized spell caster, but not automatically go with kobold. That should be new enough to you to be interesting and you'd pick up a decent amount just doing so. I would suggest either a fixed list spontaneous caster (warmage, beguiler) or a wizard. A sorcerer requires too many up front choices for you.. get your feet wet first. -James I recommend Warmage over Beguiler for an "easy choice" caster. Beguilers are a lot harder to play and have more weaknesses than a warmage. For a melee class, I recommend either Fighter or Rogue. Fighters can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization and weapon mastery to boost to hit rolls and damage. You will NEED Kobold Fighter Sub Levels 2 and 4, as they remove the worst of Kobold penalties. Also, you will have to take penalties somewhere, as Kobold ability penalties are brutal and you'll need those points for Strength and Con, and preferably INT 12 if you don't want to spend the skill points on Common. But keep in mind, unless you are a "TWF Blender Rogue", you'll probably not be as effective as other races are in melee. Barbarian levels and the Reckless Rage feat can help with damage, but you'll still lag behind other races. No matter what, you'll be playing against a Kobold's strengths by trying to make a melee character out of him. I think that you should look through the older Kobold threads on this board to find the melee builds. Hariman
Koushiro 03-23-08, 08:20 PM	While it can be fun to play a character who doesn't speak Common in a home game, or even in an LG mod not run at a convention, I've found that it can be just something that annoys the other players. Especially if nobody can translate for you, and especially if you ask for everything to be manually translated rather than assuming someone is doing it for you. We have someone here in the Shield Lands who runs his barbarian like that and at every table he's at and it's a a lot of fun! Just be creative in how you interact with the others and you'd be fine. Scout sounds like a good build to go with, as it makes you even faster for a small creature.
kinevon 03-26-08, 05:25 PM	Okay, I want to play a kobold because I really want to play a kobold character. But I figure, since kobolds make a less-then-optimum fighter, even with sub levels 2 & 4, that I might as well work him in a different style than my norm. So, just some questions: What classes make good synergy to multi-class into from, say, Marshal? How about with Scout? What would be a "good" set of stats for a Marshal, besides as high a Charisma as possible? How about a Scout, Dexterity & Wisdom? Is Rogue a good combo with Scout, or is there a lot of redundancy there?
_metz_ 03-27-08, 07:35 AM	The reason you keep being asked as to why you want to play a kobold, is that a badly thought out 'novelty' character won't work. You should have a character concept first, and then find something that works for it. If you are playing a kobold for the sake of playing a kobold, you should either be a sorceror, a cleric/singer of concordance, or potentially a rogue. Thats if you to take advantage of the card. I posted build advice once before, and you changed your mind 3-4 times RADICALLY. I won't post again till I am certain of the following: 1. You will not change your mind/create a new thread 2. You will listen to the advice, as long as it is reasonable 3. You can justify to us in a roleplay fashion the inclusion of suboptimal things, saying 'just cos I want to' is not good enough. We are here to hep you build a character, but you need to have some idea first. If you want just ideas on what to do with your kobold card, may I suggest you look through previous threads (see the search function)
kinevon 03-28-08, 05:02 AM	Okay, I think I have my concept, which is going to be heavily toward support/healing, rather than a more active combat role. Kobold Healer Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16 Skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (religion) Feat: Augment Healing Armor: None (not planning on going into melee) Weapon: Longspear (nil damage, but should be good for aid another from reach) Mount: Warpony (not enough gold for a riding dog, but can scrimp to get a warpony with gear) Not yet decided: Draconic Rite of Passage spell Future feat progression. Prc: Singer of Concordance seems like a good fit, if he lives that long. ;)
Hariman 03-29-08, 10:13 PM	Okay, I think I have my concept, which is going to be heavily toward support/healing, rather than a more active combat role. Kobold Healer Str 8, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 16 Skills: Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (religion) Feat: Augment Healing Armor: None (not planning on going into melee) Weapon: Longspear (nil damage, but should be good for aid another from reach) Mount: Warpony (not enough gold for a riding dog, but can scrimp to get a warpony with gear) Not yet decided: Draconic Rite of Passage spell Future feat progression. Prc: Singer of Concordance seems like a good fit, if he lives that long. ;) If you drop charisma to 14 (or maybe even 12), raise strength to 10 or 12, and take a 12 con, you'll be better off as a cleric. Clerics bring turning, buffing and the ability to defend themselves/self buff when needed. Healers just heal. You'll be better off as a cleric. Heck, you'd be better off as a bard/dracolexi.
Timlagor 03-31-08, 12:41 PM	Not if you want to be a Healer.
Hariman 04-01-08, 08:14 PM	Not if you want to be a Healer. True. There's worse classes out there. And worse class combinations. Not to mention that healing IS vital for all parties. I just prefer the versatility of a cleric over the focused nature of the healer.