Kobold PT build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kobold PT build? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rutrow424
08-14-07, 11:10 AM Trying to avoid the crush of kobold rogues and sorcerers, here is my plan for a kobold PT build. Any thoughts on viability as a front-line fighter, and/or any of my choices would be greatly appreciated.

S:12 D:16 C:12 I:8 W:14 CH:8
Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/PT10 of Aasterinian

Feats:
1) Dragon tail (just to get a little bit of kobold feel, could also take dragonwrought)
F1) WF - scimitar
F2) +2 CON - kobold sub level
3) True Believer
F4) +2 STR - kobold sub level
6) ??? (extra smite does not fit; extra rage/imp nat armor?)
9) MWM-slashing
PT4) Imp Crit
12) Extra smite/imp nat armor/imp toughness
PT8) ????
15) Slashing flurry

All stat bumps to STR; work toward mithral full plate. I don't like the XP/GP penalty, but can only avoid by going Fi5 or Fi6 instead of barb 1. I could also go F4/Cl3 w/ alternating levels and take CWI.

The thought is the high crit chance and bonus damage can eventually overcome the lower STR and dmg die. Combine with a good AC for a (hopefully) well-rounded fighter.

Thanks for your help.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-14-07, 11:45 AM Trying to avoid the crush of kobold rogues and sorcerers, here is my plan for a kobold PT build. Any thoughts on viability as a front-line fighter, and/or any of my choices would be greatly appreciated.

S:12 D:16 C:12 I:8 W:14 CH:8
Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/PT10 of Aasterinian

Feats:
1) Dragon tail (just to get a little bit of kobold feel, could also take dragonwrought)
F1) WF - scimitar
F2) +2 CON - kobold sub level
3) True Believer
F4) +2 STR - kobold sub level
6) ??? (extra smite does not fit; extra rage/imp nat armor?)
9) MWM-slashing
PT4) Imp Crit
12) Extra smite/imp nat armor/imp toughness
PT8) ????
15) Slashing flurry

All stat bumps to STR; work toward mithral full plate. I don't like the XP/GP penalty, but can only avoid by going Fi5 or Fi6 instead of barb 1. I could also go F4/Cl3 w/ alternating levels and take CWI.

The thought is the high crit chance and bonus damage can eventually overcome the lower STR and dmg die. Combine with a good AC for a (hopefully) well-rounded fighter.

Thanks for your help.

Don't forget power attack. With such relatively low str you REALLY need power attack to make up for it. And it always goes nicely with a high crit range.
TWG_Prometheus
08-14-07, 01:04 PM Going with the Fighter 6 route would net you another feat for Power Critical. If you're Power Attacking and hoping for crits at the same time, that feat is a big help. Fighter 6 also gets you a better Reflex/Will save and you can still get Melee Weapon Mastery by 9th.

That 8 intelligence on a Fighter or even Barbarian won't be a big help in getting the Knowledge(Religion) ranks you need for Pious Templar, either. You could probably do it, but you wouldn't have anything else for your skill ranks, and I hate not having anything for skills, myself.

Str 11 / Dex 16 / Con 12 / Int 10 / Wis 14 / Cha 8
1) Fighter 1 - Improved Natural Armor, Weapon Focus(Scimitar)
2) Kobold Sub Fighter 2 - +2 Con
3) Fighter 3 - True Believer
4) Kobold Sub Fighter 4 - +2 Str, +1 Str
5) Fighter 5
6) Fighter 6 - Power Attack, Weapon Specialization(Scimitar)
7) Pious Templar 1
8) Pious Templar 2 - +1 Str
9) Pious Templar 3 - Weapon Specialization(Scimitar), retrain earlier Weapon Specialization(Scimitar) to Power Critical(Scimitar), Melee Weapon Mastery(Slashing)
10) Pious Templar 4 - Improved Critical(Scimitar)
11) Pious Templar 5
12) Pious Templar 6 - Extra Smite, +1 Str

I avoided the Dragon Tail feat because you're stacking a low Strength with a -5 secondary weapon penalty and then you're using Power Attack. You're not tripping or otherwise doing touch attacks...it wouldn't be relevant. Stacking a higher natural armor bonus onto your existing +1 small size and +1 natural armor would be a help, however.

Unfortunately, the basic problems inherent to making a Kolbold Fighter will persist. You're a small size character meaning your base weapon damage is low, and in this case you're wielding a one-handed weapon two-handed which just makes the problem worse. At 4th level, you're doing an unbuffed 1d4+4 damage at best with a +1 weapon.

If you do decide to make such a Kolbold, you might consider doing a Pious Templar of Bahamut instead and try to abuse the x4 critical multiplier on a pick.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-14-07, 01:38 PM Race:Kobold
Alignment: Neutral (Chronepsis)

STR-16 (10)-4
DEX-14 (6)+2
CON-15 (8)-2
INT-8 (0)
WIS-12 (4)
CHA-8 (0)

Lv1(Fighter)Dragon Wings, Weapon Focus (Scythe)
Lv2(Kobold Fighter)+2 CON
Lv3(Fighter)True Believer
Lv4(Kobold Fighter)+2 STR, +1 CON
Lv5(Barbarian)
Lv6(Pious Templar)Power Attack (Retrain to Extra Rage at 9th)
Lv7(Pious Templar)
Lv8(Pious Templar)Weapon Specialization (Scythe), +1 STR
Lv9(Pious Templar)Power Attack, Improved Dragon Wings
Lv10(Fighter)
Lv11(Fighter)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing)
Lv12(Fighter)Improved Flight, +1 STR
Lv13(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush
Lv14(Fighter)
Lv15(Fighter)Extra Smiting, Shock Trooper

Yes, sucks up the XP/GP penalty, but does respectable damage, especialy on a diving charge.
rutrow424
08-14-07, 02:57 PM I avoided the Dragon Tail feat because you're stacking a low Strength with a -5 secondary weapon penalty and then you're using Power Attack. You're not tripping or otherwise doing touch attacks...it wouldn't be relevant. Stacking a higher natural armor bonus onto your existing +1 small size and +1 natural armor would be a help, however.
<snipped passage>
If you do decide to make such a Kolbold, you might consider doing a Pious Templar of Bahamut instead and try to abuse the x4 critical multiplier on a pick.

The dragon tail feat was selected for flavor; if I could be a PT of St. Cuthbert or another diety with a bludgeoning weapon it would make more sense. I could just as easily get the flavor from taking dragonwrought and/or dragon wings (there is really no point in playing a kobold if you are not going to take one of the kobold-specific options). I can't take imp nat armor until I have a 13 Con, but PA could be in order. I could live without the skills (I think), and its not like 1 more fighter class skill will do much for me anyways.

I was really trying to have respectable damage as a sword-&-board fighter. My original build would have an AC in the 30+ range at level 9 (higher if I use an amulet of nat armor instead of a con amulet) and doing d4+7+magic bonus with a 30% crit chance with bless weapon and smite available for boosts. If crits are off the table, I would be in big trouble and have to turtle/cork. You're right that I will always be behind the damage curve, but a pure kobold cork would almost certainly be avoided by any smart enemy. I would likely now go fighter 6, or possibly cl3/fi4 with the travel and luck domains and sub levels. You lose a couple HP, but gain low-level cleric buffs, the domain powers, and CWI @ 6th level for cheap ability boosters.

Jay_Ibero_911 beat me to the other PT option of Chronepsis and Scythe. A 2-H weapon w/ x4 crit that would lead into PA, using shield spell via Rite or an animated shield, w/ bless weapon/imp crit. You lose a bit of the cork/sword&board feel of the original in exchange for better damage potential. Barb/Fighter w/ extra rage would be the way to go.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-14-07, 03:05 PM The dragon tail feat was selected for flavor; if I could be a PT of St. Cuthbert or another diety with a bludgeoning weapon it would make more sense.

Just a note, you could not in fact be a PT of St. Cuthbert as a kobold. You are restricted to the worship of one of the dragon gods.
rutrow424
08-14-07, 03:26 PM Just a note, you could not in fact be a PT of St. Cuthbert as a kobold. You are restricted to the worship of one of the dragon gods.

I know - I was just noting that the tail would be a lot better if you could take MWM (bludgeoning) for the synergy. A fighter/barb using a flail/heavy flail/warmace build w/ multiattack and the tail as an added bonus. Get a bite attack (B/S/P) via DD or somehow to triple your fun!
Jay_Ibero_911
08-14-07, 03:54 PM I know - I was just noting that the tail would be a lot better if you could take MWM (bludgeoning) for the synergy. A fighter/barb using a flail/heavy flail/warmace build w/ multiattack and the tail as an added bonus. Get a bite attack (B/S/P) via DD or somehow to triple your fun!

Ah, that would be quite nice. Could Do Kobold Fighter 4/Sorc1/DD 10, with weapon focus/spec/mastery bludgeoning, and dragon tail, and bite from DD.

Race:Kobold
Alignment:

STR-17 (13)-4
DEX-12 (4)+2
CON-14 (6)-2
INT-10 (2)
WIS-8 (0)
CHA-11 (3)

Lv1(Sorcerer)Dragon Tail
Lv2(Fighter)Weapon Focus (Bludgeoning Weapon)
Lv3(Kobold Fighter)Power Attack, +2 CON
Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR
Lv5(Kobold Fighter)+2 STR
Lv6(Dragon Disciple)Weapon Specialization
Lv7(Dragon Disciple)+2 STR
Lv8(Dragon Disciple)+1 STR
Lv9(Dragon Disciple)Multi-Attack, +2 STR
Lv10(Dragon Disciple)
Lv11(Dragon Disciple)+2 CON
Lv12(Dragon Disciple)Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning), +1 STR
Lv13(Dragon Disciple)
Lv14(Dragon Disciple)Wings
Lv15(Dragon Disciple)Improved Flight
Istaran
08-14-07, 06:12 PM Jay, with your build could you do Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th? I am AFB, but if you could switch them I think +2 att/dam to all 3 attacks will beat out +3 att to 2 of them.
Jay_Ibero_911
08-14-07, 06:52 PM Jay, with your build could you do Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th? I am AFB, but if you could switch them I think +2 att/dam to all 3 attacks will beat out +3 att to 2 of them.

Only have +7 BAB at 9th level, so can't unfortunately.
rutrow424
08-15-07, 12:33 PM Ah, that would be quite nice. Could Do Kobold Fighter 4/Sorc1/DD 10, with weapon focus/spec/mastery bludgeoning, and dragon tail, and bite from DD.

Agreed, but I would like to avoid the DD route, or at best go only 4 levels after something else (I have a 13th level DD and a 4th level future DD already). Maybe Fighter 6/PT4/Sor1/DD4, but you would have problems getting all the skill points in both knowledge skills.

Any comments on the possibility of Cl3/Fi4/PT8 build, either with scimitar&shield or scythe? Would CWI @ level 6 help overcome the size difference more quickly than DD or fighter/barb?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rutrow424 08-14-07, 11:10 AM	Trying to avoid the crush of kobold rogues and sorcerers, here is my plan for a kobold PT build. Any thoughts on viability as a front-line fighter, and/or any of my choices would be greatly appreciated. S:12 D:16 C:12 I:8 W:14 CH:8 Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/PT10 of Aasterinian Feats: 1) Dragon tail (just to get a little bit of kobold feel, could also take dragonwrought) F1) WF - scimitar F2) +2 CON - kobold sub level 3) True Believer F4) +2 STR - kobold sub level 6) ??? (extra smite does not fit; extra rage/imp nat armor?) 9) MWM-slashing PT4) Imp Crit 12) Extra smite/imp nat armor/imp toughness PT8) ???? 15) Slashing flurry All stat bumps to STR; work toward mithral full plate. I don't like the XP/GP penalty, but can only avoid by going Fi5 or Fi6 instead of barb 1. I could also go F4/Cl3 w/ alternating levels and take CWI. The thought is the high crit chance and bonus damage can eventually overcome the lower STR and dmg die. Combine with a good AC for a (hopefully) well-rounded fighter. Thanks for your help.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 11:45 AM	Trying to avoid the crush of kobold rogues and sorcerers, here is my plan for a kobold PT build. Any thoughts on viability as a front-line fighter, and/or any of my choices would be greatly appreciated. S:12 D:16 C:12 I:8 W:14 CH:8 Barbarian 1/Fighter 4/PT10 of Aasterinian Feats: 1) Dragon tail (just to get a little bit of kobold feel, could also take dragonwrought) F1) WF - scimitar F2) +2 CON - kobold sub level 3) True Believer F4) +2 STR - kobold sub level 6) ??? (extra smite does not fit; extra rage/imp nat armor?) 9) MWM-slashing PT4) Imp Crit 12) Extra smite/imp nat armor/imp toughness PT8) ???? 15) Slashing flurry All stat bumps to STR; work toward mithral full plate. I don't like the XP/GP penalty, but can only avoid by going Fi5 or Fi6 instead of barb 1. I could also go F4/Cl3 w/ alternating levels and take CWI. The thought is the high crit chance and bonus damage can eventually overcome the lower STR and dmg die. Combine with a good AC for a (hopefully) well-rounded fighter. Thanks for your help. Don't forget power attack. With such relatively low str you REALLY need power attack to make up for it. And it always goes nicely with a high crit range.
TWG_Prometheus 08-14-07, 01:04 PM	Going with the Fighter 6 route would net you another feat for Power Critical. If you're Power Attacking and hoping for crits at the same time, that feat is a big help. Fighter 6 also gets you a better Reflex/Will save and you can still get Melee Weapon Mastery by 9th. That 8 intelligence on a Fighter or even Barbarian won't be a big help in getting the Knowledge(Religion) ranks you need for Pious Templar, either. You could probably do it, but you wouldn't have anything else for your skill ranks, and I hate not having anything for skills, myself. Str 11 / Dex 16 / Con 12 / Int 10 / Wis 14 / Cha 8 1) Fighter 1 - Improved Natural Armor, Weapon Focus(Scimitar) 2) Kobold Sub Fighter 2 - +2 Con 3) Fighter 3 - True Believer 4) Kobold Sub Fighter 4 - +2 Str, +1 Str 5) Fighter 5 6) Fighter 6 - Power Attack, Weapon Specialization(Scimitar) 7) Pious Templar 1 8) Pious Templar 2 - +1 Str 9) Pious Templar 3 - Weapon Specialization(Scimitar), retrain earlier Weapon Specialization(Scimitar) to Power Critical(Scimitar), Melee Weapon Mastery(Slashing) 10) Pious Templar 4 - Improved Critical(Scimitar) 11) Pious Templar 5 12) Pious Templar 6 - Extra Smite, +1 Str I avoided the Dragon Tail feat because you're stacking a low Strength with a -5 secondary weapon penalty and then you're using Power Attack. You're not tripping or otherwise doing touch attacks...it wouldn't be relevant. Stacking a higher natural armor bonus onto your existing +1 small size and +1 natural armor would be a help, however. Unfortunately, the basic problems inherent to making a Kolbold Fighter will persist. You're a small size character meaning your base weapon damage is low, and in this case you're wielding a one-handed weapon two-handed which just makes the problem worse. At 4th level, you're doing an unbuffed 1d4+4 damage at best with a +1 weapon. If you do decide to make such a Kolbold, you might consider doing a Pious Templar of Bahamut instead and try to abuse the x4 critical multiplier on a pick.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 01:38 PM	Race:Kobold Alignment: Neutral (Chronepsis) STR-16 (10)-4 DEX-14 (6)+2 CON-15 (8)-2 INT-8 (0) WIS-12 (4) CHA-8 (0) Lv1(Fighter)Dragon Wings, Weapon Focus (Scythe) Lv2(Kobold Fighter)+2 CON Lv3(Fighter)True Believer Lv4(Kobold Fighter)+2 STR, +1 CON Lv5(Barbarian) Lv6(Pious Templar)Power Attack (Retrain to Extra Rage at 9th) Lv7(Pious Templar) Lv8(Pious Templar)Weapon Specialization (Scythe), +1 STR Lv9(Pious Templar)Power Attack, Improved Dragon Wings Lv10(Fighter) Lv11(Fighter)Melee Weapon Mastery (Piercing) Lv12(Fighter)Improved Flight, +1 STR Lv13(Fighter)Improved Bull Rush Lv14(Fighter) Lv15(Fighter)Extra Smiting, Shock Trooper Yes, sucks up the XP/GP penalty, but does respectable damage, especialy on a diving charge.
rutrow424 08-14-07, 02:57 PM	I avoided the Dragon Tail feat because you're stacking a low Strength with a -5 secondary weapon penalty and then you're using Power Attack. You're not tripping or otherwise doing touch attacks...it wouldn't be relevant. Stacking a higher natural armor bonus onto your existing +1 small size and +1 natural armor would be a help, however. <snipped passage> If you do decide to make such a Kolbold, you might consider doing a Pious Templar of Bahamut instead and try to abuse the x4 critical multiplier on a pick. The dragon tail feat was selected for flavor; if I could be a PT of St. Cuthbert or another diety with a bludgeoning weapon it would make more sense. I could just as easily get the flavor from taking dragonwrought and/or dragon wings (there is really no point in playing a kobold if you are not going to take one of the kobold-specific options). I can't take imp nat armor until I have a 13 Con, but PA could be in order. I could live without the skills (I think), and its not like 1 more fighter class skill will do much for me anyways. I was really trying to have respectable damage as a sword-&-board fighter. My original build would have an AC in the 30+ range at level 9 (higher if I use an amulet of nat armor instead of a con amulet) and doing d4+7+magic bonus with a 30% crit chance with bless weapon and smite available for boosts. If crits are off the table, I would be in big trouble and have to turtle/cork. You're right that I will always be behind the damage curve, but a pure kobold cork would almost certainly be avoided by any smart enemy. I would likely now go fighter 6, or possibly cl3/fi4 with the travel and luck domains and sub levels. You lose a couple HP, but gain low-level cleric buffs, the domain powers, and CWI @ 6th level for cheap ability boosters. Jay_Ibero_911 beat me to the other PT option of Chronepsis and Scythe. A 2-H weapon w/ x4 crit that would lead into PA, using shield spell via Rite or an animated shield, w/ bless weapon/imp crit. You lose a bit of the cork/sword&board feel of the original in exchange for better damage potential. Barb/Fighter w/ extra rage would be the way to go.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 03:05 PM	The dragon tail feat was selected for flavor; if I could be a PT of St. Cuthbert or another diety with a bludgeoning weapon it would make more sense. Just a note, you could not in fact be a PT of St. Cuthbert as a kobold. You are restricted to the worship of one of the dragon gods.
rutrow424 08-14-07, 03:26 PM	Just a note, you could not in fact be a PT of St. Cuthbert as a kobold. You are restricted to the worship of one of the dragon gods. I know - I was just noting that the tail would be a lot better if you could take MWM (bludgeoning) for the synergy. A fighter/barb using a flail/heavy flail/warmace build w/ multiattack and the tail as an added bonus. Get a bite attack (B/S/P) via DD or somehow to triple your fun!
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 03:54 PM	I know - I was just noting that the tail would be a lot better if you could take MWM (bludgeoning) for the synergy. A fighter/barb using a flail/heavy flail/warmace build w/ multiattack and the tail as an added bonus. Get a bite attack (B/S/P) via DD or somehow to triple your fun! Ah, that would be quite nice. Could Do Kobold Fighter 4/Sorc1/DD 10, with weapon focus/spec/mastery bludgeoning, and dragon tail, and bite from DD. Race:Kobold Alignment: STR-17 (13)-4 DEX-12 (4)+2 CON-14 (6)-2 INT-10 (2) WIS-8 (0) CHA-11 (3) Lv1(Sorcerer)Dragon Tail Lv2(Fighter)Weapon Focus (Bludgeoning Weapon) Lv3(Kobold Fighter)Power Attack, +2 CON Lv4(Fighter)+1 STR Lv5(Kobold Fighter)+2 STR Lv6(Dragon Disciple)Weapon Specialization Lv7(Dragon Disciple)+2 STR Lv8(Dragon Disciple)+1 STR Lv9(Dragon Disciple)Multi-Attack, +2 STR Lv10(Dragon Disciple) Lv11(Dragon Disciple)+2 CON Lv12(Dragon Disciple)Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning), +1 STR Lv13(Dragon Disciple) Lv14(Dragon Disciple)Wings Lv15(Dragon Disciple)Improved Flight
Istaran 08-14-07, 06:12 PM	Jay, with your build could you do Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th? I am AFB, but if you could switch them I think +2 att/dam to all 3 attacks will beat out +3 att to 2 of them.
Jay_Ibero_911 08-14-07, 06:52 PM	Jay, with your build could you do Melee Weapon Mastery at 9th? I am AFB, but if you could switch them I think +2 att/dam to all 3 attacks will beat out +3 att to 2 of them. Only have +7 BAB at 9th level, so can't unfortunately.
rutrow424 08-15-07, 12:33 PM	Ah, that would be quite nice. Could Do Kobold Fighter 4/Sorc1/DD 10, with weapon focus/spec/mastery bludgeoning, and dragon tail, and bite from DD. Agreed, but I would like to avoid the DD route, or at best go only 4 levels after something else (I have a 13th level DD and a 4th level future DD already). Maybe Fighter 6/PT4/Sor1/DD4, but you would have problems getting all the skill points in both knowledge skills. Any comments on the possibility of Cl3/Fi4/PT8 build, either with scimitar&shield or scythe? Would CWI @ level 6 help overcome the size difference more quickly than DD or fighter/barb?