Level one Human Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Level one Human Cleric [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DAK10
02-26-08, 11:14 PM any advice on creating a level 1 human cleric for a LG game? If I survive, I'd like to eventually become a Radiant Servant of Pelor. In the beginning I'd like to provide healing and some offense. Any thoughts?
copperwyrmling
02-27-08, 12:55 AM any advice on creating a level 1 human cleric for a LG game? If I survive, I'd like to eventually become a Radiant Servant of Pelor. In the beginning I'd like to provide healing and some offense. Any thoughts?

Put at least 14 in Con, 15 in Wis and 10-12 in Cha (these are minimums, you can go much higher if you want). Increase Wis as you level. Don't lose caster levels. Stick to those and you could take all your feats as non-combat Skill Focuses and still contribute pretty strongly ;) Up to L11, Cleric 6 / Radiant Servant 5 is one of the strongest class+PrC combinations - beyond the fifth level Radiant Servant goes downhill a bit, as Empower Healing is actually better than Maximize Healing, but a character starting now is pretty unlikely to get to L12 by the end of the year.

Given you're playing a cleric / radiant servant, most of your power comes from your spell selection, followed by your feats. Some good feats include:

PHB: Extra Turning (required, but you might even want to take it more than once), metamagic feats - Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, and Extend Spell are probably the best

Complete Divine: Augment Healing, Domain Spontaneity (depending on domains)

PHB2: Divine Ward

When you say "offence", do you mean spell-based or melee-based? Clerics don't get a lot of good offensive spells at L1: Hold Person is nice when you get to L3, and at high levels they have a lot of excellent offensive spells. It's easy to wade into melee and be reasonably effective at low levels, but at high levels it requires a sustained investment in feats and equipment. If you want to be a serious melee cleric you need to reflect that in your initial stats (note the feats above are primarily for a healing/casting cleric, not a meleer).
zoinks69
02-27-08, 10:18 AM If you plan on playing enough this year, Radiant Servant is a great option.

Pelorites tend to be healers, so I would emphasize options to enhance that -- Augment Healing is a nice boost to Cures and amazing for Restoration spells. You'll end up with a bunch of turns that aren't doing much (especially later on) -- so pick up a feat to use them (Divine Ward is incredible, but don't overlook Domain Spontaneity (Healing) to bust out the big Cures).

Other things are more long-term -- Quicken Spell and Chain Spell are great, but only really come into play at later levels that you might not see.
DAK10
02-27-08, 01:17 PM If you plan on playing enough this year, Radiant Servant is a great option.

Pelorites tend to be healers, so I would emphasize options to enhance that -- Augment Healing is a nice boost to Cures and amazing for Restoration spells. You'll end up with a bunch of turns that aren't doing much (especially later on) -- so pick up a feat to use them (Divine Ward is incredible, but don't overlook Domain Spontaneity (Healing) to bust out the big Cures).

Other things are more long-term -- Quicken Spell and Chain Spell are great, but only really come into play at later levels that you might not see.

Thanks guys. I'm going to use the cleric human fast play as a base http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/dndlg/fastplay
Should I get rid of the scibe scroll feat and get Augment Healing?
copperwyrmling
02-27-08, 01:36 PM Thanks guys. I'm going to use the cleric human fast play as a base http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/dndlg/fastplay
Should I get rid of the scibe scroll feat and get Augment Healing?

Yes. In order to do this, you need 4 ranks in Heal: I would recommend moving the 4 ranks in Spellcraft to Heal and the 4 ranks in Knowledge (History) to Knowledge (Religion) (at L2 you can put a fifth rank into Knowledge (Religion) and get a bonus on turning checks). Always keep max ranks in Concentration. Also, seriously consider taking 2 points from another stat to boost Con to 14. (If you're not planning to be a melee cleric, drop Strength; if you're not planning to be casting offensive spells, you can get away with Wis 14; if you want to do both then I would probably lower Cha to 12, although dropping Dex to 8 is also an option.)
DAK10
02-27-08, 05:03 PM Yes. In order to do this, you need 4 ranks in Heal: I would recommend moving the 4 ranks in Spellcraft to Heal and the 4 ranks in Knowledge (History) to Knowledge (Religion) (at L2 you can put a fifth rank into Knowledge (Religion) and get a bonus on turning checks). Always keep max ranks in Concentration. Also, seriously consider taking 2 points from another stat to boost Con to 14. (If you're not planning to be a melee cleric, drop Strength; if you're not planning to be casting offensive spells, you can get away with Wis 14; if you want to do both then I would probably lower Cha to 12, although dropping Dex to 8 is also an option.)

OK great thanks. So I have str: 14, Dex: 10, Con:14. Int: 10, Wis: 15, Cha 12. I now have skills: 4 ranks Con, 4 ranks knowledge (religion), 4 ranks heal. The feats will be extra turning and Augment healing. Should I leave the rest of the fast play the same? Are the spells they picked ok? or any better strategy? Anything else to keep in mind? Thanks again.
DAK10
02-28-08, 11:03 AM OK great thanks. So I have str: 14, Dex: 10, Con:14. Int: 10, Wis: 15, Cha 12. I now have skills: 4 ranks Con, 4 ranks knowledge (religion), 4 ranks heal. The feats will be extra turning and Augment healing. Should I leave the rest of the fast play the same? Are the spells they picked ok? or any better strategy? Anything else to keep in mind? Thanks again.

Would it be better to lower my cha to 10 giving me 2 more ability points so I could raise my wis to 16? How does cha affect clerics? Thanks again.
Maesto
02-28-08, 03:07 PM Charisma effects the turning aspect of being a cleric. As Radiant Servants get a rather large boost to their turning capabilities, most have a decent charisma to go along with it. Higher charisma offers more turning attempts/day, larger bonuses on turning checks, and more turning damage, as well as contributes to social skills. About 12 seems to be decent, although charisma 10 and wisdom 16 also works. Really, it's up to you, and nobody's going to criticise your choice of starting ability scores ;-) If you do have a higher charisma, turning based feats become more enticing also.
Jay_Ibero_911
02-28-08, 04:49 PM There's almost no reason to got with 16 starting wisdom over 15. All it will do is put you at an odd wisdom ammount after the 3 level bumps, unless you are lucky enough to get access to a stat boost book, or other random permanent boost effect.
copperwyrmling
02-28-08, 08:14 PM There's almost no reason to got with 16 starting wisdom over 15. All it will do is put you at an odd wisdom ammount after the 3 level bumps, unless you are lucky enough to get access to a stat boost book, or other random permanent boost effect.

At L12+, there's no point - but at L1-3 and 8-11, it does make a difference, and character effectiveness isn't judged solely by what they can do at L15. That said, at L1-3 it doesn't make much difference, as it's not enough to get an extra spell slot at any level, and L1 spells with saves aren't that impressive - the biggest benefit is probably the +1 Will save. It's better at L8-11, but the 4-7 range might be more important for this PC.

Having Cha 12 instead of 10 means an extra turn attempt/day (can be important) and +1 to turning checks and turning damage (rarely important). As Maesto said, either Cha 12 Wis 15 or Cha 10 Wis 16 should be fine. Your other ability scores, skill choices and feats look good.

As for spells: Bless is great, Prot Evil is situationally great (and pretty much strictly better than Shield of Faith at this level). Given that you're a L1 cleric, you'll probably end up converting them into cures anyway. Cure Light Wounds is the best choice of your two domain spells right now. Cantrip choices are pretty decent too (and again, they'll probably end up getting converted into cure minors). Spell selection is something you should experiment with a bit.
Lomiat
02-28-08, 10:50 PM What? Copper, you're suggesting that 8 CON, 18 WIS and 16 CHA isn't optimized?

Oh.... Aegon's so sad...
copperwyrmling
02-28-08, 11:59 PM What? Copper, you're suggesting that 8 CON, 18 WIS and 16 CHA isn't optimized?

Oh.... Aegon's so sad...

Aegon is wonderful, but I wouldn't recommend his build to a first-time cleric player, no ;) I still think there's something wrong when the L9 cleric is jealous of the L8 sorcerer's hit points :P

Does this mean your laptop is functional again? :plotting:
solbergb
02-29-08, 08:30 PM Yeah, especially as the sorcerer can wear a constitution statbooster and a cleric can't normally. Not to mention false life...

My sorcerer has generally had a hitpoint reserve similar to clerics she's traveled with most of her career, between false life and con items. They NEED that d8 hit die.
copperwyrmling
02-29-08, 09:13 PM Yeah, especially as the sorcerer can wear a constitution statbooster and a cleric can't normally. Not to mention false life...

My sorcerer has generally had a hitpoint reserve similar to clerics she's traveled with most of her career, between false life and con items. They NEED that d8 hit die.

Min had almost twice HP as many as Aegon in that game - she's a gnome sorcerer 6 / ruathar 2 with starting Con 16, a +2 Con-booster and False Life as a known spell. Her HP at L8 are therefore usually 66+1d10 counting temporaries (she has a permanent point of damage from an item), whereas Aegon's at L9 are - at a guess - 39. (Hmm, and I just noticed I have Min's HP slightly wrong on her character sheet: I'd forgotten ruathar was a d6 HP class.) Aegon is a powerful character, but he plays more like a grey elf wizard with banned necromancy than anything else - Travel domain and some lucky NONC access lets him do arcane-like battlefield control and mobility magic pretty well.

I really dislike the slot conflict between the periapt of wisdom and amulet of health, but it's something you need to take into account when making a cleric.
DAK10
03-01-08, 09:49 AM Hi guys in case you are wondering we played on Thursday night a Living Greyhawk mod called A Murder In Elmshire COR6-10. It was great. I played my level one cleric with the 12 cha and it was a blast.

Thanks for all your help copper and the rest!
solbergb
03-01-08, 12:11 PM Glad you enjoyed your session.

That's what it is all about. Welcome to the Living Campaign style of D&D.

I remember when I first started being impressed with the automatic assumption that people will work as a team to overcome challenges at most tables I played, even though the players did not normally play together. It seems you had a similar experience.
clannagh
03-02-08, 09:00 PM As for spells: Bless is great, Prot Evil is situationally great (and pretty much strictly better than Shield of Faith at this level). Given that you're a L1 cleric, you'll probably end up converting them into cures anyway. Cure Light Wounds is the best choice of your two domain spells right now. Cantrip choices are pretty decent too (and again, they'll probably end up getting converted into cure minors). Spell selection is something you should experiment with a bit.

I always liked to pack command and/or cause fear as a low level cleric.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DAK10 02-26-08, 11:14 PM	any advice on creating a level 1 human cleric for a LG game? If I survive, I'd like to eventually become a Radiant Servant of Pelor. In the beginning I'd like to provide healing and some offense. Any thoughts?
copperwyrmling 02-27-08, 12:55 AM	any advice on creating a level 1 human cleric for a LG game? If I survive, I'd like to eventually become a Radiant Servant of Pelor. In the beginning I'd like to provide healing and some offense. Any thoughts? Put at least 14 in Con, 15 in Wis and 10-12 in Cha (these are minimums, you can go much higher if you want). Increase Wis as you level. Don't lose caster levels. Stick to those and you could take all your feats as non-combat Skill Focuses and still contribute pretty strongly ;) Up to L11, Cleric 6 / Radiant Servant 5 is one of the strongest class+PrC combinations - beyond the fifth level Radiant Servant goes downhill a bit, as Empower Healing is actually better than Maximize Healing, but a character starting now is pretty unlikely to get to L12 by the end of the year. Given you're playing a cleric / radiant servant, most of your power comes from your spell selection, followed by your feats. Some good feats include: PHB: Extra Turning (required, but you might even want to take it more than once), metamagic feats - Empower Spell, Quicken Spell, and Extend Spell are probably the best Complete Divine: Augment Healing, Domain Spontaneity (depending on domains) PHB2: Divine Ward When you say "offence", do you mean spell-based or melee-based? Clerics don't get a lot of good offensive spells at L1: Hold Person is nice when you get to L3, and at high levels they have a lot of excellent offensive spells. It's easy to wade into melee and be reasonably effective at low levels, but at high levels it requires a sustained investment in feats and equipment. If you want to be a serious melee cleric you need to reflect that in your initial stats (note the feats above are primarily for a healing/casting cleric, not a meleer).
zoinks69 02-27-08, 10:18 AM	If you plan on playing enough this year, Radiant Servant is a great option. Pelorites tend to be healers, so I would emphasize options to enhance that -- Augment Healing is a nice boost to Cures and amazing for Restoration spells. You'll end up with a bunch of turns that aren't doing much (especially later on) -- so pick up a feat to use them (Divine Ward is incredible, but don't overlook Domain Spontaneity (Healing) to bust out the big Cures). Other things are more long-term -- Quicken Spell and Chain Spell are great, but only really come into play at later levels that you might not see.
DAK10 02-27-08, 01:17 PM	If you plan on playing enough this year, Radiant Servant is a great option. Pelorites tend to be healers, so I would emphasize options to enhance that -- Augment Healing is a nice boost to Cures and amazing for Restoration spells. You'll end up with a bunch of turns that aren't doing much (especially later on) -- so pick up a feat to use them (Divine Ward is incredible, but don't overlook Domain Spontaneity (Healing) to bust out the big Cures). Other things are more long-term -- Quicken Spell and Chain Spell are great, but only really come into play at later levels that you might not see. Thanks guys. I'm going to use the cleric human fast play as a base http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/dndlg/fastplay Should I get rid of the scibe scroll feat and get Augment Healing?
copperwyrmling 02-27-08, 01:36 PM	Thanks guys. I'm going to use the cleric human fast play as a base http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/dndlg/fastplay Should I get rid of the scibe scroll feat and get Augment Healing? Yes. In order to do this, you need 4 ranks in Heal: I would recommend moving the 4 ranks in Spellcraft to Heal and the 4 ranks in Knowledge (History) to Knowledge (Religion) (at L2 you can put a fifth rank into Knowledge (Religion) and get a bonus on turning checks). Always keep max ranks in Concentration. Also, seriously consider taking 2 points from another stat to boost Con to 14. (If you're not planning to be a melee cleric, drop Strength; if you're not planning to be casting offensive spells, you can get away with Wis 14; if you want to do both then I would probably lower Cha to 12, although dropping Dex to 8 is also an option.)
DAK10 02-27-08, 05:03 PM	Yes. In order to do this, you need 4 ranks in Heal: I would recommend moving the 4 ranks in Spellcraft to Heal and the 4 ranks in Knowledge (History) to Knowledge (Religion) (at L2 you can put a fifth rank into Knowledge (Religion) and get a bonus on turning checks). Always keep max ranks in Concentration. Also, seriously consider taking 2 points from another stat to boost Con to 14. (If you're not planning to be a melee cleric, drop Strength; if you're not planning to be casting offensive spells, you can get away with Wis 14; if you want to do both then I would probably lower Cha to 12, although dropping Dex to 8 is also an option.) OK great thanks. So I have str: 14, Dex: 10, Con:14. Int: 10, Wis: 15, Cha 12. I now have skills: 4 ranks Con, 4 ranks knowledge (religion), 4 ranks heal. The feats will be extra turning and Augment healing. Should I leave the rest of the fast play the same? Are the spells they picked ok? or any better strategy? Anything else to keep in mind? Thanks again.
DAK10 02-28-08, 11:03 AM	OK great thanks. So I have str: 14, Dex: 10, Con:14. Int: 10, Wis: 15, Cha 12. I now have skills: 4 ranks Con, 4 ranks knowledge (religion), 4 ranks heal. The feats will be extra turning and Augment healing. Should I leave the rest of the fast play the same? Are the spells they picked ok? or any better strategy? Anything else to keep in mind? Thanks again. Would it be better to lower my cha to 10 giving me 2 more ability points so I could raise my wis to 16? How does cha affect clerics? Thanks again.
Maesto 02-28-08, 03:07 PM	Charisma effects the turning aspect of being a cleric. As Radiant Servants get a rather large boost to their turning capabilities, most have a decent charisma to go along with it. Higher charisma offers more turning attempts/day, larger bonuses on turning checks, and more turning damage, as well as contributes to social skills. About 12 seems to be decent, although charisma 10 and wisdom 16 also works. Really, it's up to you, and nobody's going to criticise your choice of starting ability scores ;-) If you do have a higher charisma, turning based feats become more enticing also.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-28-08, 04:49 PM	There's almost no reason to got with 16 starting wisdom over 15. All it will do is put you at an odd wisdom ammount after the 3 level bumps, unless you are lucky enough to get access to a stat boost book, or other random permanent boost effect.
copperwyrmling 02-28-08, 08:14 PM	There's almost no reason to got with 16 starting wisdom over 15. All it will do is put you at an odd wisdom ammount after the 3 level bumps, unless you are lucky enough to get access to a stat boost book, or other random permanent boost effect. At L12+, there's no point - but at L1-3 and 8-11, it does make a difference, and character effectiveness isn't judged solely by what they can do at L15. That said, at L1-3 it doesn't make much difference, as it's not enough to get an extra spell slot at any level, and L1 spells with saves aren't that impressive - the biggest benefit is probably the +1 Will save. It's better at L8-11, but the 4-7 range might be more important for this PC. Having Cha 12 instead of 10 means an extra turn attempt/day (can be important) and +1 to turning checks and turning damage (rarely important). As Maesto said, either Cha 12 Wis 15 or Cha 10 Wis 16 should be fine. Your other ability scores, skill choices and feats look good. As for spells: Bless is great, Prot Evil is situationally great (and pretty much strictly better than Shield of Faith at this level). Given that you're a L1 cleric, you'll probably end up converting them into cures anyway. Cure Light Wounds is the best choice of your two domain spells right now. Cantrip choices are pretty decent too (and again, they'll probably end up getting converted into cure minors). Spell selection is something you should experiment with a bit.
Lomiat 02-28-08, 10:50 PM	What? Copper, you're suggesting that 8 CON, 18 WIS and 16 CHA isn't optimized? Oh.... Aegon's so sad...
copperwyrmling 02-28-08, 11:59 PM	What? Copper, you're suggesting that 8 CON, 18 WIS and 16 CHA isn't optimized? Oh.... Aegon's so sad... Aegon is wonderful, but I wouldn't recommend his build to a first-time cleric player, no ;) I still think there's something wrong when the L9 cleric is jealous of the L8 sorcerer's hit points :P Does this mean your laptop is functional again? :plotting:
solbergb 02-29-08, 08:30 PM	Yeah, especially as the sorcerer can wear a constitution statbooster and a cleric can't normally. Not to mention false life... My sorcerer has generally had a hitpoint reserve similar to clerics she's traveled with most of her career, between false life and con items. They NEED that d8 hit die.
copperwyrmling 02-29-08, 09:13 PM	Yeah, especially as the sorcerer can wear a constitution statbooster and a cleric can't normally. Not to mention false life... My sorcerer has generally had a hitpoint reserve similar to clerics she's traveled with most of her career, between false life and con items. They NEED that d8 hit die. Min had almost twice HP as many as Aegon in that game - she's a gnome sorcerer 6 / ruathar 2 with starting Con 16, a +2 Con-booster and False Life as a known spell. Her HP at L8 are therefore usually 66+1d10 counting temporaries (she has a permanent point of damage from an item), whereas Aegon's at L9 are - at a guess - 39. (Hmm, and I just noticed I have Min's HP slightly wrong on her character sheet: I'd forgotten ruathar was a d6 HP class.) Aegon is a powerful character, but he plays more like a grey elf wizard with banned necromancy than anything else - Travel domain and some lucky NONC access lets him do arcane-like battlefield control and mobility magic pretty well. I really dislike the slot conflict between the periapt of wisdom and amulet of health, but it's something you need to take into account when making a cleric.
DAK10 03-01-08, 09:49 AM	Hi guys in case you are wondering we played on Thursday night a Living Greyhawk mod called A Murder In Elmshire COR6-10. It was great. I played my level one cleric with the 12 cha and it was a blast. Thanks for all your help copper and the rest!
solbergb 03-01-08, 12:11 PM	Glad you enjoyed your session. That's what it is all about. Welcome to the Living Campaign style of D&D. I remember when I first started being impressed with the automatic assumption that people will work as a team to overcome challenges at most tables I played, even though the players did not normally play together. It seems you had a similar experience.
clannagh 03-02-08, 09:00 PM	As for spells: Bless is great, Prot Evil is situationally great (and pretty much strictly better than Shield of Faith at this level). Given that you're a L1 cleric, you'll probably end up converting them into cures anyway. Cure Light Wounds is the best choice of your two domain spells right now. Cantrip choices are pretty decent too (and again, they'll probably end up getting converted into cure minors). Spell selection is something you should experiment with a bit. I always liked to pack command and/or cause fear as a low level cleric.