LG Bard to Fochlucan Lyrist [Archive] - Wizards Community

LG Bard to Fochlucan Lyrist [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Asaris
09-28-06, 01:58 AM So, I have a bard I'm interested in taking to FL. I have an idea for the build, but I was looking for input. Here's what I have so far, but none of this is set in stone. And, yes, I have the skill points to do this, but, AFAIK, only with the int that I have. The point of having the negotiator feat is to help his diplomacy, which gives him some way to contribute. The reason I took his secondary classes early is 1) an animal companion can help contribute and 2) evasion will help keep him alive. Also, any ideas for good feats would be helpful.

Human Bard, S 8, D 14, C10, I 14, W 12, C16. All stat bumps into Cha. Level 1 feats: Negotiator, Skill Focus (Perform).

1.Bard
2. Bard
3.Druid
4. Rogue
5. Rogue
6. Bard
7. Bard
8. Bard
9. Bard
10. Bard
11. Sublime Chord
12. Foch. Lyr.
13. FL
14. FL
15. FL
Sieylianna
09-28-06, 07:47 AM I would start off with the two rogue levels for the skill points and evasion. Then take the druid level and finish your career as a bard.

While FL is a good class, I think you're going to spend 90% of your p;lay time being weak and underpowered. IMO, waiting until 12th level to get where you want to be is too long in a campaign that caps at 16th,

Ed
serow_#R
09-28-06, 08:58 AM is the FL even a viable choice in LG ?
any opinions from anyone who've seen a FL in play ? or anyone who's on the way to becoming a FL ?
Lightblade
09-28-06, 10:06 AM I'm a couple levels away from Fochlucan Lyrist. However, i went the opposite route, with an intended breakdown of Druid 6 / Bard 2 / Rogue 2. I'm adding the rogue levels last, since i'm a gnome. I've had a good time thus far, but that's probably more a function of all the fact that i've been a druid that could buff my Dire Badger and inspire courage in it to boot.

If you want to go the bard route: Why not just go sublime chord? Will you really care about low level druid spells at that APL? At 15th level on the doorstep of retirement, you'll get: 3rd level druid spells. Sure, your bardic music will increase quicker as a lyracist, but you could always take Extra Music for those. Also, a 1st list animal companion is something that will not be combat viable for very long at all. You'll get a bird for scouting, but that's about it. Don't forget about the restriction against metal armor, as well.
amnuxoll
09-28-06, 11:49 AM We have a Fochlucan Lyrist in our region who got there by virtue of the conversion so he missed out on some of the pain of getting there. The big appeal of the class (to me) is that there are almost none of them in the campaign. There's no doubt that it's not a pclass for powergamers. But it takes so *long* to get there that I just can't seem to talk myself into it.

FYI, if you're considering it, there was a thread on EnWorld where it was pointed out you could take two levels of Shadowdancer instead of rogue and still get into the pclass. Hide in Plain Sight seems like it would be useful to an FL.

:AMN:
UMiskatonic
09-28-06, 02:09 PM You can also get evasion from master thrower, or combat medic (need access for CM).

Overall, while druid/bard/sublime chord/Fochlucan lyrist is a possible LG build, it's a tough road. The one in our region is clearly less effective than most other characters.

At 5th level, the above build will only have 1st level spells, compared to the 3rd level spells of the wizards and clerics.

At 6th level, fighters get two attacks a round, and two more bonus feats, rangers and monks pick up a combat style, and you'll still only have 1st level spells. Against CR 9 opponents, that produce flame isn't going to do much, and a badger isn't going to slow down a stone giant.
Mommy was an Orc
09-28-06, 05:39 PM I'd seriously try to minimize the pain - try to take as many of your primary class levels as you can early on. A Rogue 1/Druid 1-6 is still pretty much a Druid. A Bard 7 is actually a pure Bard build.

That way you're not actually too far behind the curve until level 8 rolls around - and at least you've got 3rd level spells at APL 8(and possibly some APL 6 games)
Asaris
10-01-06, 01:17 PM Thanks for the help. I know he's not going to be a 'power character', but it seems like a fun build. I like the idea of taking the primary class levels first. Having Evasion would help my characters survivability, but at the cost of his usefulness.
solbergb
10-04-06, 02:27 PM I'd seriously try to minimize the pain - try to take as many of your primary class levels as you can early on. A Rogue 1/Druid 1-6 is still pretty much a Druid. A Bard 7 is actually a pure Bard build.

Yeah. And I can speak from my cohort's experience...a bard7 can still add quite a bit to an APL10 party, which means even if your next three class levels do little or nothing for your overall capability, you'll not be a drag on the party.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Asaris 09-28-06, 01:58 AM	So, I have a bard I'm interested in taking to FL. I have an idea for the build, but I was looking for input. Here's what I have so far, but none of this is set in stone. And, yes, I have the skill points to do this, but, AFAIK, only with the int that I have. The point of having the negotiator feat is to help his diplomacy, which gives him some way to contribute. The reason I took his secondary classes early is 1) an animal companion can help contribute and 2) evasion will help keep him alive. Also, any ideas for good feats would be helpful. Human Bard, S 8, D 14, C10, I 14, W 12, C16. All stat bumps into Cha. Level 1 feats: Negotiator, Skill Focus (Perform). 1.Bard 2. Bard 3.Druid 4. Rogue 5. Rogue 6. Bard 7. Bard 8. Bard 9. Bard 10. Bard 11. Sublime Chord 12. Foch. Lyr. 13. FL 14. FL 15. FL
Sieylianna 09-28-06, 07:47 AM	I would start off with the two rogue levels for the skill points and evasion. Then take the druid level and finish your career as a bard. While FL is a good class, I think you're going to spend 90% of your p;lay time being weak and underpowered. IMO, waiting until 12th level to get where you want to be is too long in a campaign that caps at 16th, Ed
serow_#R 09-28-06, 08:58 AM	is the FL even a viable choice in LG ? any opinions from anyone who've seen a FL in play ? or anyone who's on the way to becoming a FL ?
Lightblade 09-28-06, 10:06 AM	I'm a couple levels away from Fochlucan Lyrist. However, i went the opposite route, with an intended breakdown of Druid 6 / Bard 2 / Rogue 2. I'm adding the rogue levels last, since i'm a gnome. I've had a good time thus far, but that's probably more a function of all the fact that i've been a druid that could buff my Dire Badger and inspire courage in it to boot. If you want to go the bard route: Why not just go sublime chord? Will you really care about low level druid spells at that APL? At 15th level on the doorstep of retirement, you'll get: 3rd level druid spells. Sure, your bardic music will increase quicker as a lyracist, but you could always take Extra Music for those. Also, a 1st list animal companion is something that will not be combat viable for very long at all. You'll get a bird for scouting, but that's about it. Don't forget about the restriction against metal armor, as well.
amnuxoll 09-28-06, 11:49 AM	We have a Fochlucan Lyrist in our region who got there by virtue of the conversion so he missed out on some of the pain of getting there. The big appeal of the class (to me) is that there are almost none of them in the campaign. There's no doubt that it's not a pclass for powergamers. But it takes so long to get there that I just can't seem to talk myself into it. FYI, if you're considering it, there was a thread on EnWorld where it was pointed out you could take two levels of Shadowdancer instead of rogue and still get into the pclass. Hide in Plain Sight seems like it would be useful to an FL. :AMN:
UMiskatonic 09-28-06, 02:09 PM	You can also get evasion from master thrower, or combat medic (need access for CM). Overall, while druid/bard/sublime chord/Fochlucan lyrist is a possible LG build, it's a tough road. The one in our region is clearly less effective than most other characters. At 5th level, the above build will only have 1st level spells, compared to the 3rd level spells of the wizards and clerics. At 6th level, fighters get two attacks a round, and two more bonus feats, rangers and monks pick up a combat style, and you'll still only have 1st level spells. Against CR 9 opponents, that produce flame isn't going to do much, and a badger isn't going to slow down a stone giant.
Mommy was an Orc 09-28-06, 05:39 PM	I'd seriously try to minimize the pain - try to take as many of your primary class levels as you can early on. A Rogue 1/Druid 1-6 is still pretty much a Druid. A Bard 7 is actually a pure Bard build. That way you're not actually too far behind the curve until level 8 rolls around - and at least you've got 3rd level spells at APL 8(and possibly some APL 6 games)
Asaris 10-01-06, 01:17 PM	Thanks for the help. I know he's not going to be a 'power character', but it seems like a fun build. I like the idea of taking the primary class levels first. Having Evasion would help my characters survivability, but at the cost of his usefulness.
solbergb 10-04-06, 02:27 PM	I'd seriously try to minimize the pain - try to take as many of your primary class levels as you can early on. A Rogue 1/Druid 1-6 is still pretty much a Druid. A Bard 7 is actually a pure Bard build. Yeah. And I can speak from my cohort's experience...a bard7 can still add quite a bit to an APL10 party, which means even if your next three class levels do little or nothing for your overall capability, you'll not be a drag on the party.