Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RanielK 03-05-08, 11:28 AM	Hi folks, I've just made 12th and I'm looking at training out Color Spray as a spell known. I'm a Sorcerer 6/Ruathar 2/War Weaver 2 and a Dark templated (+1 ECL) Aasimar (+1 ECL). I'm looking to trade out Color Spray for possibly a buff or maybe benign transpo. Not sure if there is any other 1st level Core that scales into the 10 to 15 level range. A buff would be useful as a War Weaver being able to "Mass" or "chain" it in effect for free. Go, go, eldritch tapestry! Feats: Empower Spell Enlarge Spell (needed for War Weaver) Rapid Metamagic Extra Spell (Haste) (may be trained out when I can move Haste into my regular stable of spells known) I've also got a lesser rod of sculpt and could buy just about any other rod on the market thanks to favors (just need the gold). Spells known: 1st Magic Missile Protection from Evil Lesser Orb of Sound Color Spray Ray of Enfeeblement 2nd Glitterdust False Life Blur Baleful Transposition 3rd Fireball Fly Haste Greater Mage Armor (cause shadows and wraiths suck) 4th Evard's black tentacles Dimension Door Any suggestions? As for anything not open, I have some favors from the recent spate of Cores and a few regional mods which have given access to some spells (e.g. got access to whelm from a mod). So, if I don't have access now, I may get lucky and see it in the future.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-05-08, 12:17 PM	Hi folks, I've just made 12th and I'm looking at training out Color Spray as a spell known. I'm a Sorcerer 6/Ruathar 2/War Weaver 2 and a Dark templated (+1 ECL) Aasimar (+1 ECL). I'm looking to trade out Color Spray for possibly a buff or maybe benign transpo. Not sure if there is any other 1st level Core that scales into the 10 to 15 level range. A buff would be useful as a War Weaver being able to "Mass" or "chain" it in effect for free. Go, go, eldritch tapestry! Feats: Empower Spell Enlarge Spell (needed for War Weaver) Rapid Metamagic Extra Spell (Haste) (may be trained out when I can move Haste into my regular stable of spells known) I've also got a lesser rod of sculpt and could buy just about any other rod on the market thanks to favors (just need the gold). Spells known: 1st Magic Missile Protection from Evil Lesser Orb of Sound Color Spray Ray of Enfeeblement 2nd Glitterdust False Life Blur Baleful Transposition 3rd Fireball Fly Haste Greater Mage Armor (cause shadows and wraiths suck) 4th Evard's black tentacles Dimension Door Any suggestions? As for anything not open, I have some favors from the recent spate of Cores and a few regional mods which have given access to some spells (e.g. got access to whelm from a mod). So, if I don't have access now, I may get lucky and see it in the future. Grease is a good old versatile standby...Not many enemies will have good balance checks at any APL...Woven Enlarge Person is a fun cheap mass enlarge...not exactly amazing, but woven Jump to turn the whole party into mario...
TetsujinOni 03-05-08, 12:30 PM	Grease is a good old versatile standby...Not many enemies will have good balance checks at any APL...Woven Enlarge Person is a fun cheap mass enlarge...not exactly amazing, but woven Jump to turn the whole party into mario... Enlarge Person is not Save (h). Sadface for my transmuter.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-05-08, 12:45 PM	Enlarge Person is not Save (h). Sadface for my transmuter. Well that's unexpected...really SHOULD either be harmless or require a willing target...reduce animal requires a willing animal.... Another core option would be endure elements...handy for those harsher environment adventures...
Timlagor 03-05-08, 01:15 PM	Mage Armour? (Shield if you can Weave that but I think not)
RanielK 03-05-08, 01:41 PM	Mage Armour? (Shield if you can Weave that but I think not) Yeah, I've got Greater Mage Armor and a little trinket from Furyondy that lets me once per day extend a Greater Mage Armor. So, when I get to War Weaver 4, I'll be casting GMA on the party and it'll last 22 hours. Unfortunatly, Shield is personal, IIRC. So I can't weave it. Though it'd be useful for me personally. But it is a shield bonus, yes? I have an animated twilight mithril heavy shield (0 ACP, 0 ASF) used mostly to hold an armor crystal (lesser Ironward right now) and soon to have some other useful enchantment. However, the Shield itself is only +3 armor bonus. So maybe Shield would help.
JamesMaissen 03-05-08, 02:25 PM	Hi folks, I've just made 12th and I'm looking at training out Color Spray as a spell known. Grease seems the clear alternative to benign transpose. Seeing as you have baleful currently you might make due with that (though there are more limitations on baleful) and pick up grease. That you have access to a sculpt rod (for glitterdust) being able to sculpt grease is wonderful. It's also something that you could elect to cast through the weave if you wanted. Grease is about a 1.5 level spell and scales very well. I'd hazard only ray of enfeeble scales better and that's saying a lot for a save based spell. It also has like 3 different uses, which makes for a nice sorcerer spell in general. I would, however, consider that you might need to use retrains to work on other spells known of higher levels. You are 3 casting levels down from your APL. Loading damage will not work for you. I would look to dump fireball in favor of fly. I would also think through how far you think you're going to take this character. If it's a full 3 more levels then plan out the spells you will want. This will dictate your retrains. You have another 2nd level spell coming.. resist energy is a good bet here for a warweaver, especially a sorcerer. Burn 5 slots and give resistance 30 to all elements for the party. Dropping magic missile and/or lesser orb of sound can be reasonable for you to pick up benign transpose and let you swap baleful transpose for something else. -James
Mr.Black 03-05-08, 02:33 PM	I play a warweaver myself, though he's a wizard. I use Combat Readiness a lot (Drow of the Underdark), and also Nerveskitter.
TWG_Prometheus 03-05-08, 02:36 PM	You have another 2nd level spell coming.. resist energy is a good bet here for a warweaver, especially a sorcerer. Burn 5 slots and give resistance 30 to all elements for the party. It's not the 1st level spell that the OP is asking about but I want to emphasize this. Resist Energy is a fantastic spell for a Sorcerer and other non-prep casters. Any prep caster is taking a chance on needing a different spell. (even a Cleric might want something other than a heal) Any prep caster that does prepare Resist Energy might also find that they don't have enough castings of it available even if they do end up wanting it. (Pearls of Power II can fix this out of combat) A spontaneous caster might not use Resist Energy for several games in a row and then find themselves using all of their 2nd level slots for it in another game. It's not a first-pick spell for 2nd level spells for them, but it definitely is a strong inclusion on the list, simply because of the dynamics of how the spell works, what situations you want it in, and what amounts you want it in when the need arises. My Sorcerer gish turned the heads of an entire table when I just waved my hand one mod and gave them all Resist Cold. To get back on topic, spells that you don't necessarily want to have often but that you want in large amounts when the need arises are good choices for a Sorcerer's 3rd or 4th pick at any given spell level.
copperwyrmling 03-05-08, 04:20 PM	Any suggestions? As for anything not open, I have some favors from the recent spate of Cores and a few regional mods which have given access to some spells (e.g. got access to whelm from a mod). So, if I don't have access now, I may get lucky and see it in the future. From the perspective of weaving spells into the eldritch tapestry, I would check to see if you have access to Nerveskitter (SpC) and/or Combat Readiness (DotU). Initiative is good ;) For general spell choices... Featherfall is a surprisingly good spell. I know the detailed spell lists of three L15 LG sorcerers, and all three have Featherfall (it's the only spell we all have in common, iirc). It's nice to be able to just say No to pit traps and falling boulder traps (provided you have line-of-sight to the people in danger), since those are hard to spot with detect magic. It's also a lot more efficient to cast Featherfall as opposed to six Fly spells when you want to get the party down a cliff or drop-off quickly (just don't try this at the Rift Canyon). And of course, when you fight a combat on top of a tower with bullrushing giants, it's also useful for avoiding 20d6 damage ;) Guided Shot (swift action, ignore concealment/cover) is useful if you use a lot of ranged-touch spells, like your empowered ray of enfeeblement and lesser orb of sound. As others have said, (Sculpted) Grease is very nice. It does have the slight issue that the effect on a failed save is sometimes better for the bad guys than the effect on a passed save (i.e. Sorcerer: "Hey rogue, want me to make him flat-footed for you?" Rogue: "Yes please!" Sorcerer: "Okay, roll a reflex save, DC is only 15." GM: "Fail." Sorcerer: "Oops. I wasn't expecting that. Sorry, rogue... at least he's prone...") There are worse problems to have, though. When sculpted, it's a very nice spell for shutting down golems (they tend to have poor ref saves and balance checks, and it's SR:no). Friendly Face, from Races of Destiny, helps you function as a decent party face - I don't know if your dark aasimar is at all interested in that. (My L15 sorcerer's L1 spells are Featherfall, Benign Transposition, Guided Shot, Friendly Face and Ray of Enfeeblement. She has Quicken, Empower, Sculpt and Split Ray. My L8 sorcerer's L1 spells are Grease, Featherfall, Magic Missile, Mage Armor and Silent Image: she has no metamagic feats but owns lesser rods of Extend and Sculpt.)
JamesMaissen 03-05-08, 05:43 PM	It's also a lot more efficient to cast Featherfall as opposed to six Fly spells when you want to get the party down a cliff or drop-off quickly Well considering he's a warweaver we're just looking at one spell either way. He's paid a casting level for this (after loosing 2 already) so he *has* to make it work for him. -James
kjenks 03-05-08, 06:44 PM	Grease can be a buff spell when facing grapplers and grabbers. "A creature wearing greased armor or clothing gains a +10 circumstance bonus on Escape Artist checks and on grapple checks made to resist or escape a grapple or to escape a pin." Offense and buff in the same spell -- not bad for a warweaver sorc.
RanielK 03-05-08, 06:46 PM	Well considering he's a warweaver we're just looking at one spell either way. He's paid a casting level for this (after loosing 2 already) so he *has* to make it work for him. -James Yeah, pretty much. Since I was 2 down anyway, I felt I had to get war weaver when I got access because it would make me more efficient by buffing the entire party (+5 Charisma bonus now and it is soon to go up) with one spell. Now that I have quiescent weaving so I can now do so as a move action (which is a free action thanks to the Belt of Broken, um, Battle). I'll only make 5th level in time for Origins and the end of the campaign. I'll be dropping 4 spells on the party at close range as a free action followed by either a battlefield control spell (evards), an AOE or one last spell. As for my future spell list: 2nd not sure 3rd not sure but will probably keep Haste and train out Extra Spell Feat for Sculpt or Silence Spell (good when I hide and move silently) 4th Shadow Conjuration Enervation 5th Draconic Might Shadow Evocation Feeblemind 6th Disintegrate Greater Heroism
kjenks 03-05-08, 08:54 PM	Consider Fires of Purity for a level 6 spell. It's a great buff spell.
copperwyrmling 03-06-08, 02:01 AM	Well considering he's a warweaver we're just looking at one spell either way. He's paid a casting level for this (after loosing 2 already) so he *has* to make it work for him. -James Sure, that's true. I was thinking more from a general perspective when I wrote about that aspect of Featherfall. It's not as relatively good for a warweaver as it is for most casters, but it's still a nice immediate-action safeguard. I just mention it because I took it as an afterthought with my sorcerer ("gah, need a new L1 spell, can't think of anything really good, oh well I'll take featherfall and swap it back out next level") and then it turned out to be much more useful than I'd anticipated, so I imagine others may also underestimate it. (Oh, and just a pedantic note: belt of battle effectively converts a move action to a swift action, not a free action, since it takes a swift action to activate. This can be important if you're opening with woven nerveskitter or something, as it means you don't have a swift action free in the first round - but given you have Rapid Metamagic, unless you REALLY need to move and cast and release your quiescent weaving in the first round I can't see this causing many problems.)
Koushiro 03-09-08, 01:38 PM	I hate to take this posting off topic, but where the heck are you getting access to all of this stuff?! Twilight? Aasimar? Ruthar? I mean, wow, that's awesome and all but dang that's way more then my 13th level Sorcerer and 10th level Pally have access too combined! Erm, anyway I'd put a vote in for Grease, it is honestly one of the best spells in the game. It gets more broken with sculpt spell, but that doens't stop just plain old level 1 Grease from being awesome. Even if the monster makes the balance check, if they don't have 5 actual ranks in the balance skill they're still considered flat-footed, which means usually lower ACs and Rogues get to have fun. :)
RanielK 03-09-08, 04:46 PM	I hate to take this posting off topic, but where the heck are you getting access to all of this stuff?! Twilight? Aasimar? Ruthar? Well, for Aasimar, I lost my Wild Mage to a paladin trap in the Core Special Hanging Glacier and I was rewarded for it. It doesn't help that he's technically immortal now. He's still stuck in a glacier. The Dark Template was added when my character touched the wrong thing in another Core Special. Ruathar was from two different sources. A regional and another mod (both still playable so . . .). War Weaver came from playing a mod (still playable). I mean, wow, that's awesome and all but dang that's way more then my 13th level Sorcerer and 10th level Pally have access too combined! Yeah, it is all about luck. It does help that due to circumstances, this is the only character I have played for over a year now. I've taken him from 5th at GenCon last year to 12th now and will have a shot at 16th by Origins. Erm, anyway I'd put a vote in for Grease, it is honestly one of the best spells in the game. It gets more broken with sculpt spell, but that doens't stop just plain old level 1 Grease from being awesome. That's what the consensus seems to be. And to think, I was basically considering between Color Spray and Grease when I first filled the spell slot.
kjenks 03-09-08, 09:34 PM	I hate to take this posting off topic, but where the heck are you getting access to all of this stuff?! Twilight? Aasimar? Ruthar? Ya gotta get out more. Travel to other regions. Play mods in other metaregions. Each region has its own set of extra goodies (feats, spells, items, prestige classes, even races) that it likes to give access to, from mods and metaorgs. Each triad has their own ideas of what should be allowed into the campaign. Traveling to another region gives you much better access than anything you can get in one region alone. So check the Web for cheap air fare and hit the convention circuit. I can almost always find a game going on somewhere in the world, and I can almost always find crash space for sleeping at or near a con. You may think, "I can't afford that!" but $200-300 for airfare is cheaper than a few rounds of golf.
Puggle Halfwine 03-15-08, 11:17 AM	I hate to take this posting off topic, but where the heck are you getting access to all of this stuff?! Twilight? Aasimar? Ruthar? I mean, wow, that's awesome and all but dang that's way more then my 13th level Sorcerer and 10th level Pally have access too combined! I was thinking... exactly the same thing. Aasimar?! What the HELL? And people dare to give me stick about my kobold?! None of my characters (and there are many; I've played every mod available in Oz since about year 4) have any cool toys I didn't either buy out of a splatbook or earn in a core mod. Aasimar?! I DIED and got a tattoo of [ [] ] on my wrist! How does THAT equate?! Just right now I am somewhat GLAD that LFR will allow everyone to play every game from every region... ... AASIMAR?! Edit: Except, apparently, Hanging Glacier. Whatdoyaknow. Ya gotta get out more. Travel to other regions. Play mods in other metaregions. Great solution if you live in the US. If you live in Oz, well... you're kinda screwed.* *Screwed in regard to broken access (and mods with "No matter what you do in-game, you FAIL! Have a curse."). In terms of huge amounts of authors, great stories, great players... woo hoo!! Jackpot! I pray almighty Joe, the Great Shaper Of All, will fix these problems in the upcoming campaign.
Iswald 03-15-08, 09:48 PM	From the perspective of weaving spells into the eldritch tapestry, I would check to see if you have access to Nerveskitter (SpC) and/or Combat Readiness (DotU). Initiative is good ;) Nerveskitter doesn't help much in a tapestry since you've changed an immediate spell into a move action which you can only do on your turn. By then, most of your party will already have rolled init. The only time it will help is when you go in the surprise round while the rest of the party does not. Also, your judge will have to handle init correctly and not have the surprised party members roll until after the surprise round. Feign surprise cards may help. Of course, if you want to use it outside of your tapestry, then it's all peachy. :)
Iswald 03-15-08, 09:57 PM	(Oh, and just a pedantic note: belt of battle effectively converts a move action to a swift action, not a free action, since it takes a swift action to activate. This can be important if you're opening with woven nerveskitter or something, as it means you don't have a swift action free in the first round - but given you have Rapid Metamagic, unless you REALLY need to move and cast and release your quiescent weaving in the first round I can't see this causing many problems.) The Belt of Battle doesn't convert any type of action into any other kind of action. All it does is let you use a swift action to gain an additional move, standard or full round action depending upon how many charges you use. I suppose you could say it lets you convert a swift action into something longer. However, it'll still take a move action to use your tapestry. Perhaps there is some other item that lets you do what you're saying?
Maesto 03-15-08, 11:12 PM	The Belt of Battle doesn't convert any type of action into any other kind of action. All it does is let you use a swift action to gain an additional move, standard or full round action depending upon how many charges you use. I suppose you could say it lets you convert a swift action into something longer. However, it'll still take a move action to use your tapestry. Perhaps there is some other item that lets you do what you're saying? No, I think Copper has it correct, although she said it in a bit of a roundabout way. The Belt of Battle is turning a swift action into something longer; in the case of needing a move action to release a weave, it's turning that move action into a swift action essentially. Note also that by "woven nerveskitter", I think Copper means "Casting Nerveskitter as an immediate action before rolling initiative, and targetting the weave to affect everybody within range," rather than putting it in the quiescent weave (which as you note, doesn't work).
RanielK 03-16-08, 04:55 PM	I was thinking... exactly the same thing. Aasimar?! What the HELL? And people dare to give me stick about my kobold?! But he's all scaley and slimey. I'm Clean and Noble. . . :P In a pig's eye. I'm CN (G)* at best and boy do I play up that 10 WIS. (only staid out of the negatives cause he's an aasimar) None of my characters (and there are many; I've played every mod available in Oz since about year 4) have any cool toys I didn't either buy out of a splatbook or earn in a core mod. Aasimar?! I DIED and got a tattoo of [ [] ] on my wrist! How does THAT equate?! Oh, so you've been to the Pale. Say hi to Lucky for me. He's got 13 of those weird "I died and all I got was a Raise and this Tattoo" tattooes. *Screwed in regard to broken access (and mods with "No matter what you do in-game, you FAIL! Have a curse."). Oh, so you've played in Bissel? "Welcome to Bissel. Here's a curse. Have a nice day!" Jay, I'm lookin' at you, you mean, mean man.** *For rules reasons, he actually has to be CG. But I definitely play him closer to CN(G). **Though that particular mod didn't have a curse, come to think of it.
RanielK 03-16-08, 04:59 PM	No, I think Copper has it correct, although she said it in a bit of a roundabout way. The Belt of Battle is turning a swift action into something longer; in the case of needing a move action to release a weave, it's turning that move action into a swift action essentially. Note also that by "woven nerveskitter", I think Copper means "Casting Nerveskitter as an immediate action before rolling initiative, and targetting the weave to affect everybody within range," rather than putting it in the quiescent weave (which as you note, doesn't work). Yes, Copper had it right. I just goofed and committed the sin of saying free when I meant swift. Both happen lickety split. Only one happens as often as doesn't annoy the GM and the other happens once on your turn during your action. The second there is what was meant. And yes Nerveskitter is very usefull being cast through the tapestry, since at War Weaver 5 the range is extended out and only one casting need affect the entire party. If only I had access. :(
Iswald 03-17-08, 10:50 PM	And yes Nerveskitter is very usefull being cast through the tapestry, since at War Weaver 5 the range is extended out and only one casting need affect the entire party. If only I had access. :( Even with the range extended, you need to cast nerveskitter when you are rolling for init. Since you've put it into a tapestry, you can no longer use it as an immediate action (unless you just want to cast it separately from the tapestry). So, you have to wait until your turn to dump it on everybody else with whatever else you've woven into the tapestry. At that point, it'll only help those who haven't rolled for initiative yet.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-18-08, 12:31 AM	Even with the range extended, you need to cast nerveskitter when you are rolling for init. Since you've put it into a tapestry, you can no longer use it as an immediate action (unless you just want to cast it separately from the tapestry). So, you have to wait until your turn to dump it on everybody else with whatever else you've woven into the tapestry. At that point, it'll only help those who haven't rolled for initiative yet. He casts it as an immediate action through the tapestry when rolling initiative and it affects the whole party. Not as part of the pre-cast move action released buffs, but as a normal spell through the weave. Works fine.
RanielK 03-19-08, 12:16 PM	Even with the range extended, you need to cast nerveskitter when you are rolling for init. Since you've put it into a tapestry, you can no longer use it as an immediate action (unless you just want to cast it separately from the tapestry). So, you have to wait until your turn to dump it on everybody else with whatever else you've woven into the tapestry. At that point, it'll only help those who haven't rolled for initiative yet. No, the Quiescent weaving requires you to cast it at some earlier time as normal, but with the tapestry as the target and then release it and the X other spells as a move action on your turn. Casting through the tapestry just requires you to cast a spell and adhere to two things. A) the range of the spell (Touch, Close, etc) until 5th level (at which time it extends one category) and b) the extraordinary costs (XP cost, GP cost, etc) like the gp cost with Stoneskin, but not the Spell Slot "cost" (ie uses only one spell slot but X costly materials where X is the number of people affected). So Nerveskitter through the tapestry gets casts as usual. If there were a spell that met the criteria but only gets cast outside of combat, it would still function as normal because casting through the tapestry is not a combat only option. For instance, I plan to cast Extended Greater Mage Armor on everyone first thing in the morning so that we're always protected versus the shadow/spectre/ghost ambush.
Huck Pennan 04-06-08, 03:17 PM	My suggestion is to keep Color Spray, no matter how high level you get it's still a 1 round stun. Which in LG (with it's love of single opponent combat), is a shut down spell.
Maesto 04-06-08, 06:11 PM	My suggestion is to keep Color Spray, no matter how high level you get it's still a 1 round stun. Which in LG (with it's love of single opponent combat), is a shut down spell. Are you thinking straight? It's got a will save associated with it, and as it's a first level spell with DCs not increasing nearly as quickly as baddie saving throws, it's an awful choice to retain in the later levels! Furthermore, as a sorceror, you can really afford to be dropping higher level spells than first level in combat. They'll usually be much more effective than a colour spray.
Redfist 04-06-08, 07:06 PM	I would agree COMPLETELY! I haven't even thought of casting color spray in about 10-12 levels.
kjenks 04-06-08, 07:13 PM	Quicken Heighten Metamagic is your friend.
Timlagor 04-06-08, 07:43 PM	While a 1 round stun is always nice, there are usually other better things you can cast than a Heightened CS if you can make them fail a Will Save ..and better things to Quicken too (assuming you haven't already used up that Swift Action on something else)
Redfist 04-06-08, 10:31 PM	Exactly - I'm quite used to heighten and quicken but for a 15th level caster... Color Spray? Really?
JamesMaissen 04-07-08, 09:20 AM	Exactly - I'm quite used to heighten and quicken but for a 15th level caster... Color Spray? Really? Amen. Heighten can be quite useful in two respects.. throwing a mid level spell as a top tier DC save when you can afford the slot, and using one's spells known list a bit more vertically. But color spray has LOTs of limitations.. range is first and foremost here. Beyond that (and other issues) by the time your talking about having a critter fail a will save you want to do nastier things to it. Also let's consider the OP's spells known (the low levels for a second): 1st Magic Missile Protection from Evil Lesser Orb of Sound Color Spray Ray of Enfeeblement 2nd Glitterdust False Life Blur Baleful Transposition So first of all he's got a glitterdust as a low level will save that handles most things fairly well on a failed will save. So it's already suffering from duplication and being out gunned. Secondly he could be using that 1st level spell known for many different spells: benign transpose (though baleful is a poor man's version at times and uses a higher slot.. access is an issue of course) grease (which is wonderful fodder for metamagics) a different lesser orb (for higher damage & energy vulnerabilities) spam spells like friendly face, unseen servant, tenser's floating disc, detect secret doors, or alarm obscuring mist (though its a scroll spell and I'd go with fog cloud/benign transpose over it & baleful) guided shot scholar's touch feather fall. Benign is limited I grant you, but access comes up a decent amount of the time depending on region (and if baleful shows up it's likely benign does as well). There are other limited spells of varying insanity (nerveskitter being fodder for the higher end). Any of those list above is likely more use to him than color spray over the long run. -James
RanielK 04-09-08, 01:13 PM	Amen. benign transpose (though baleful is a poor man's version at times and uses a higher slot.. access is an issue of course) grease (which is wonderful fodder for metamagics) a different lesser orb (for higher damage & energy vulnerabilities) spam spells like friendly face, unseen servant, tenser's floating disc, detect secret doors, or alarm obscuring mist (though its a scroll spell and I'd go with fog cloud/benign transpose over it & baleful) guided shot scholar's touch feather fall. All great choices. I've got a lot to choose from. Benign is limited I grant you, but access comes up a decent amount of the time depending on region (and if baleful shows up it's likely benign does as well). There are other limited spells of varying insanity (nerveskitter being fodder for the higher end). I chose baleful over benign because I figured I'd use it with the Belt of Battle to save a hostage. 1) BoB to get standard, 2) use standard to Baleful (hostage doesn't know its coming or who I am so isn't necessarily willing) to switch places, 3) use standard to Dim Door to safety (behind rest of party), 4) Taunt bad guy for loosing hostage. The nice part is the Dim Door can be used to take along a few other hostages, who should be willing to go after seeing their fellow hostage freed. Benign would work well in that trick for pulling allies out of wicked crazy grapples.
solbergb 04-09-08, 05:27 PM	Just be aware that Baleful has a significant limitation that benign lacks...both folks to be swapped must be touching the same surface. So useless if one or the other is flying or whatever. I've had quite a few uses of benign over the years where baleful would not have worked as a substitute.
ChainLink 04-09-08, 05:46 PM	Well that's unexpected...really SHOULD either be harmless or require a willing target...reduce animal requires a willing animal.... It's not harmless, and can be used offensively, since Enlarging certain characters makes them less effective. Arcane spellcasters and throwing specialists come to mind, since it means -2 to hit and AC, with no real benefits (aside from net +5 to grapple...Whoopee).