Mastering the monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mastering the monk [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andrewls11
09-27-07, 10:52 PM I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows:
LVL 1 Dwarf Monk
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIZ 14
CHA 10

I am thinking on taking up tattooed monk once I can for the combat and healing (our only healer is a pally) but I would like any advice on making this monk the best he can be.
Mommy was an Orc
09-27-07, 11:24 PM I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows:
LVL 1 Dwarf Monk
STR 12
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 12
WIZ 14
CHA 10

I am thinking on taking up tattooed monk once I can for the combat and healing (our only healer is a pally) but I would like any advice on making this monk the best he can be.

Woof. I'd restart him. If you're going to be a Dwarf Monk, there's really no benefit to having a 10 Charisma. And you desperately need those 4 stat points to boost Str and/or Con. You're going to miss. A lot. And you can't survive missing all the time.

From what I've seen with Monks, the following things are important:
Get Strength or Dexterity up there. Strength is better because it synergizes with Grappling and doesn't require a feat on Weapon Finesse. 10 build points is best. Constitution is important as well - being a Monk means you try to do strange things and when it works, it works. When it doesn't, you will often take a full attack...

Hold a reach weapon, even if you're not proficient. Spiked Chain works pretty well for this. Try to trip incoming opponents.

---

The stats I'd like to see on a Dwarf Monk probably look like this:
Str 15
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 10
Wis 14
Cha 6

And you'd probably be happier with an Int 10/Wis 12 or Int 8/Wis 14 and the 16 Str.
jstorrie
09-28-07, 01:28 PM Monks out of the box are tricky in LG, because you need to spread your stats across four areas. The way to go is specialize. As a monk you have a few key abilities:

• Stunning Fist or Grappling
• Free Improved Unarmed Strike
• Free Combat Reflexes at 2
• Flurry
• Free Improved Trip at 6
• Qualifies for Sun School

If you were playing a Dex-boosting race, I might consider prioritizing Wis, Dex, and playing around with Stunning Fist a lot, but if Tattooed Monk is what you want, mixing Fighter and Monk is the way to go. As advised above, restart with better stats, but in this case, go human:
Str 16
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 8
Cha 6

and then run with a build like
1 Fighter: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge
2 Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
3 Monk: Combat Reflexes, Defensive Throw
4 Fighter: Weapon Focus (Guisarme)
5 Fighter
6 Fighter: Endurance, Weapon Specialization (Guisarme)
7 Tattooed Monk: Crab Tattoo
8 Tattooed Monk
9 Tattooed Monk: Improved Buckler Defense, Lion Tattoo
10 Tattooed Monk
11 Tattooed Monk: Monkey Tattoo
12 Tattooed Monk: Weapon Mastery (Slashing)
13 Tattooed Monk: Unicorn Tattoo
14 Tattooed Monk
15 Tattooed Monk: Versatile Unarmed Strike, Phoenix Tattoo

Tripping isn't that badly impacted by 3/4 bab, so it's a fairly solid way to go with Monk/TM, and being able to wear armor negates the low Wisdom. With DR, fairly high AC, good mobility skills, great saves and a self-reroll, a Fighter/Monk/Tattooed Monk actually makes for a very resilient battlefield controller.
solbergb
09-28-07, 01:40 PM I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows:
LVL 1 Dwarf Monk
STR 12

Two words.

MORE STRENGTH

Monks need strength. Preferably 16 or higher. Minimum 14, and only if you have alternate means to boost damage. They don't need charisma.

You won't hit much with only a 14 strength. You won't hit much of anything with 12 strength. You won't be able to grapple or trip well.

Monks don't need a ton of dexterity - they need enough to power combat reflexes and to take improved grapple (13, 15 if you want to be enlarged) in addition to taking stunning fist.

Usually str and wis are prioritized first, then dex and con. Int is a distant 5th. Charisma should be the minimum for your race.
UMiskatonic
10-01-07, 12:02 PM Yeah, I'm going to have to agree. You're too pretty and too smart for your own good.

Monks are NOT fighters. If you can pound that into your head, you'll be ok. Trading full attacks with a fighter will get you crushed.

Your job is to be the utility guy. Assist everyone else by making a nuisance of yourself. Trip, disarm, stun, grapple are all great choices here.

Or, use your mobility to go after targets you can beat. Crossing the battlefield to grapple the wizard is brilliant. Doing the same thing to grapple the owlbear is suicide.

----------------------------------------------------
Monks have DR issues, and can't power attack through DR the way fighters can. You'll need the right kind of weapon to do damage, or you might as well go home. I recommend an adamantine kama when you can find one, along with a quarterstaff, and a silver kama, and a cold iron kama. Since all the monk weapons are similar, feel free to use sais instead. Oil of magic weapon and oil of bless weapon are must-have items.
solbergb
10-01-07, 01:39 PM Monks are melee and need a strong or at least meaningful melee attack, but yes they are not fighters or barbarians. You can't play them the same way.

But if you lack the strength (or in some unusual builds non-strength ways to boost damage output while retaining decent to-hit mods) to have a meaningful melee attack, there really isn't any way you can play them and have them remain effective after the baby levels.
jstorrie
10-01-07, 09:14 PM In reference to what I posted above - if you swap out Endurance for Improved Initiative, you can do Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Anything 1 / Nightsong Enforcer 7, too, which works well with a guisarme tripper. There are variations on that - for example:

1 Ftr: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Initiative
2 Monk: IUS, IG
3 Monk: Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense
4 Ftr: change to a non-Lawful alignment; Weapon Focus
5 Barbarian
6 Ftr: Extra Rage
7 Ftr: Weapon Spec
8 Nightsong Enforcer
9 Nightsong Enforcer: Weapon Mastery
12 Nightsong Enforcer: Staggering Strike
15 Nightsong Enforcer: Reckless Rage
solbergb
10-04-07, 08:13 PM if "anything1" is a base class and it isn't the favored class for the race, doing monk4/fighter4/anything1 so will take XP penalties. Note that humans and halforcs have to pick their "high level" class as favored, which means they'd take XP penalties. Halforc (barb1) is probably best, although wood elf (ranger1) isn't bad in that slot.
jstorrie
10-04-07, 08:41 PM Sorry, that should read Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Anything 1, above - which is a whole other can of worms. Only humans and dwarves pull that off properly. Half-orc, for Monk 3 / Fighter 4, is pretty decent still.

If you can stomach giving up Weapon Spec/Mastery (and I can't, but in theory you should be able to take other feats that are just as good) Knight 3 / Monk 2 is a great entrance to Tattooed Monk, for a Tattooed Monk tripper. Bulwark of Defense goes great with reach-controller types. Make sure to take Improved Buckler defense so that Shield Block kicks in, and definitely abuse Mounted Combat.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andrewls11 09-27-07, 10:52 PM	I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows: LVL 1 Dwarf Monk STR 12 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 12 WIZ 14 CHA 10 I am thinking on taking up tattooed monk once I can for the combat and healing (our only healer is a pally) but I would like any advice on making this monk the best he can be.
Mommy was an Orc 09-27-07, 11:24 PM	I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows: LVL 1 Dwarf Monk STR 12 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 12 WIZ 14 CHA 10 I am thinking on taking up tattooed monk once I can for the combat and healing (our only healer is a pally) but I would like any advice on making this monk the best he can be. Woof. I'd restart him. If you're going to be a Dwarf Monk, there's really no benefit to having a 10 Charisma. And you desperately need those 4 stat points to boost Str and/or Con. You're going to miss. A lot. And you can't survive missing all the time. From what I've seen with Monks, the following things are important: Get Strength or Dexterity up there. Strength is better because it synergizes with Grappling and doesn't require a feat on Weapon Finesse. 10 build points is best. Constitution is important as well - being a Monk means you try to do strange things and when it works, it works. When it doesn't, you will often take a full attack... Hold a reach weapon, even if you're not proficient. Spiked Chain works pretty well for this. Try to trip incoming opponents. --- The stats I'd like to see on a Dwarf Monk probably look like this: Str 15 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 14 Cha 6 And you'd probably be happier with an Int 10/Wis 12 or Int 8/Wis 14 and the 16 Str.
jstorrie 09-28-07, 01:28 PM	Monks out of the box are tricky in LG, because you need to spread your stats across four areas. The way to go is specialize. As a monk you have a few key abilities: • Stunning Fist or Grappling • Free Improved Unarmed Strike • Free Combat Reflexes at 2 • Flurry • Free Improved Trip at 6 • Qualifies for Sun School If you were playing a Dex-boosting race, I might consider prioritizing Wis, Dex, and playing around with Stunning Fist a lot, but if Tattooed Monk is what you want, mixing Fighter and Monk is the way to go. As advised above, restart with better stats, but in this case, go human: Str 16 Dex 14 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 6 and then run with a build like 1 Fighter: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Dodge 2 Monk: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 3 Monk: Combat Reflexes, Defensive Throw 4 Fighter: Weapon Focus (Guisarme) 5 Fighter 6 Fighter: Endurance, Weapon Specialization (Guisarme) 7 Tattooed Monk: Crab Tattoo 8 Tattooed Monk 9 Tattooed Monk: Improved Buckler Defense, Lion Tattoo 10 Tattooed Monk 11 Tattooed Monk: Monkey Tattoo 12 Tattooed Monk: Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 13 Tattooed Monk: Unicorn Tattoo 14 Tattooed Monk 15 Tattooed Monk: Versatile Unarmed Strike, Phoenix Tattoo Tripping isn't that badly impacted by 3/4 bab, so it's a fairly solid way to go with Monk/TM, and being able to wear armor negates the low Wisdom. With DR, fairly high AC, good mobility skills, great saves and a self-reroll, a Fighter/Monk/Tattooed Monk actually makes for a very resilient battlefield controller.
solbergb 09-28-07, 01:40 PM	I am new the he world of D&D and want to know what kind of stuff I can, can't, should, or shouldn't do. My current stats are as fallows: LVL 1 Dwarf Monk STR 12 Two words. MORE STRENGTH Monks need strength. Preferably 16 or higher. Minimum 14, and only if you have alternate means to boost damage. They don't need charisma. You won't hit much with only a 14 strength. You won't hit much of anything with 12 strength. You won't be able to grapple or trip well. Monks don't need a ton of dexterity - they need enough to power combat reflexes and to take improved grapple (13, 15 if you want to be enlarged) in addition to taking stunning fist. Usually str and wis are prioritized first, then dex and con. Int is a distant 5th. Charisma should be the minimum for your race.
UMiskatonic 10-01-07, 12:02 PM	Yeah, I'm going to have to agree. You're too pretty and too smart for your own good. Monks are NOT fighters. If you can pound that into your head, you'll be ok. Trading full attacks with a fighter will get you crushed. Your job is to be the utility guy. Assist everyone else by making a nuisance of yourself. Trip, disarm, stun, grapple are all great choices here. Or, use your mobility to go after targets you can beat. Crossing the battlefield to grapple the wizard is brilliant. Doing the same thing to grapple the owlbear is suicide. ---------------------------------------------------- Monks have DR issues, and can't power attack through DR the way fighters can. You'll need the right kind of weapon to do damage, or you might as well go home. I recommend an adamantine kama when you can find one, along with a quarterstaff, and a silver kama, and a cold iron kama. Since all the monk weapons are similar, feel free to use sais instead. Oil of magic weapon and oil of bless weapon are must-have items.
solbergb 10-01-07, 01:39 PM	Monks are melee and need a strong or at least meaningful melee attack, but yes they are not fighters or barbarians. You can't play them the same way. But if you lack the strength (or in some unusual builds non-strength ways to boost damage output while retaining decent to-hit mods) to have a meaningful melee attack, there really isn't any way you can play them and have them remain effective after the baby levels.
jstorrie 10-01-07, 09:14 PM	In reference to what I posted above - if you swap out Endurance for Improved Initiative, you can do Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Anything 1 / Nightsong Enforcer 7, too, which works well with a guisarme tripper. There are variations on that - for example: 1 Ftr: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Initiative 2 Monk: IUS, IG 3 Monk: Combat Reflexes, Danger Sense 4 Ftr: change to a non-Lawful alignment; Weapon Focus 5 Barbarian 6 Ftr: Extra Rage 7 Ftr: Weapon Spec 8 Nightsong Enforcer 9 Nightsong Enforcer: Weapon Mastery 12 Nightsong Enforcer: Staggering Strike 15 Nightsong Enforcer: Reckless Rage
solbergb 10-04-07, 08:13 PM	if "anything1" is a base class and it isn't the favored class for the race, doing monk4/fighter4/anything1 so will take XP penalties. Note that humans and halforcs have to pick their "high level" class as favored, which means they'd take XP penalties. Halforc (barb1) is probably best, although wood elf (ranger1) isn't bad in that slot.
jstorrie 10-04-07, 08:41 PM	Sorry, that should read Monk 2 / Fighter 4 / Anything 1, above - which is a whole other can of worms. Only humans and dwarves pull that off properly. Half-orc, for Monk 3 / Fighter 4, is pretty decent still. If you can stomach giving up Weapon Spec/Mastery (and I can't, but in theory you should be able to take other feats that are just as good) Knight 3 / Monk 2 is a great entrance to Tattooed Monk, for a Tattooed Monk tripper. Bulwark of Defense goes great with reach-controller types. Make sure to take Improved Buckler defense so that Shield Block kicks in, and definitely abuse Mounted Combat.