Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MFLabias 07-06-07, 12:50 AM	I've noticed in my annual trips to both Gen-Con and Origins that the characters that I'd rigged up for melee ownage haven't gotten a chance to do anything. The last Eberron game I played (Gen-Con '05 maybe) consisted of me silently adjusting myself in my seat and snacking on Oreos for three hours as I watched our party's Bards and Rogue's sneak around and bluff. I think that the last LG game I played (two or so years ago) went pretty similarly. Using the LG rules I was hoping to start up a new level 1 character along the same less talk more killing theme I generally use in D&D (that's arguabely lame - I know) - only this time, I'm SORT OF considering making my character capable of more than clearing waves of enemies and give him a few tricks that could prove essential in an adventure or two. What I have planned: -Two Weapon Fighting -Ranger or Fighter -> Tempest (Perhaps) -> Pious Templar (Perhaps) -Two Rapiers (getting to apply things like WF and WS to both hands, getting the benefit of Weapon Finesse [which I feel okay about taking due to maxing multiple stats being near impossible with the LG point system, and Light Armor will require a decent Dex if I plan on being missed by Kobolds {Pun Pun excluded from that racist statement} ], and having a nice threat range which can be amplified even further at level 8 via Improved Critical + multiple attacks per round make the Rapier a solid weapon choice) -Oversized Two Weapon Fighting (Rapiers are medium) Some things I've noticed: -Rangers (up to 6 - the Tempest level) get very nice skill points, get useful things like Track, Animal Companion, free TWF and ITWF (which could just be taken as a fighter), Favored Enemies, Spells, etc (you know what a Ranger is) -Fighters (up to 6 - the Tempest level) get low skill points, nothing useful other than combat feats, lots of feats, same BAB as Rangers, less Reflex and Will, etc -Pious Templar gives free WS, Mettle (I LOVE METTLE), DR 1/-, whatever, spells -Tempest gives higher attack, higher AC, nothing else really and Tempests have Spring Attack as a requirement (dunno yet if I'm comfortable spending 3 early feats on such things) I'm pretty much not sure what to do... would it be a waste for me to build this sort of character? Have you seen much action in LG and can you vouche for a character along this line having his glory moments? Do you have any tips on the build order or build plan? I'm pretty much open to anything you'd have to say - I'm just looking for a sense of direction.
bitznarf 07-06-07, 01:09 AM	You may want to look at dervish, it seems to be right up your alley. Yes, such a character could often have glory moments. There are even complaints of LG being too combat based.
LGMoses 07-06-07, 02:30 AM	but rangers have a d8 hit die also so they're softer than a fighter. Not too much softer but I bet its noticeable. The extra feats fighters get makes them VERY versatile on what you want to do. But I'm like you, a fan of those skill points that rangers get. Also, while Bright Sands is on its way out, with mods like it around noone is going to complain about characters competent in survival. I'm personally a fan of the two weapon fighting using a shield and bashing when needed. Remember that you don't ALWAYS have to fight with two weapons if you have the feat. Stay versatile and put those skills to use! Lead the party in overland movement. don't be afraid to scout (you're more likely to come back than the rogue after all), and try to get the jump on people whenever you can so you can bring them down quickly. You won't be able to survive the protracted fights that a fighter could. But you'll be able to scout and keep the party alive in most PvE mods. ...and rangers are awesome! :D
jstorrie 07-06-07, 11:42 AM	Don't use two rapiers–while you can Weapon Finesse a rapier, it's not a light weapon, which is bad for TWF.
ShinAkuma2 07-06-07, 12:30 PM	Don't use two rapiers–while you can Weapon Finesse a rapier, it's not a light weapon, which is bad for TWF. He's already planning for Oversized TWF.
UMiskatonic 07-06-07, 07:01 PM	It will help to be an elf here. Take racial weapon familiarity, and then grab the sweet elven weapons, like courtblades and thinblades. Fight with a long and a short weapon until you have the Oversize TWF feats. Fight with a weapon and a buckler until you have TWF.
Banor 07-06-07, 08:51 PM	Its a viable option if he goes tempest, otherwise he is better to stick with the same weapon x2 especially if he is going Fighter way (which is superior for plain combat imo)
copper_wyrmling 07-06-07, 10:01 PM	There are some things you have to understand when playing a two-weapon-fighter. First is that the fighting style is almost invariably inferior to swinging a two-handed weapon, unless you have LOTS of bonus damage that applies to every attack (the classic example being sneak attack). Even then, high Str + two-handed weapon + power attack is still the best melee-damage-dealing strategy in the game against the majority of opponents: you can do similar damage with oversized two-weapon-fighting, but it costs you a lot of feats, requires high Dex and imposes an attack penalty that usually just about cancels out the small gains in damage from doubling your weapon damage dice and weapon spec / mastery. If you want to play a two-weapon-fighter, that's fine, but if you want to slaughter things in melee and the TWF feats are just a means to that end then I would really suggest ditching the TWF plan and going with a raging barbarian two-handed-power-attack brute. If you do want to stick with TWF, though, the second thing you have to realize is that the full attack is paramount, because you only get your extra attacks when you have a chance to full attack. Your tactics need to be based around getting as many full attacks as possible (this isn't a bad idea even for a two-handed-power-attacker, but they're less reliant on it) - as others have said, the Dervish prestige class is good there, most other ways of getting lots of full attacks rely on friendly party casters. I know MwaO has a scout / ranger / dervish build that has a lot of skills (and trapfinding) and eventually (around L10-12 iirc) gets very scary in melee, but it's rather complex and takes a while to become very powerful. The gist is scout 4 / ranger 2 / fighter 1-2 / dervish X, I think, with the feats Improved Skirmish and Swift Hunter from Complete Scoundrel, using dervish to get full attacks with improved skirmish and two-weapon-fighting. If I was going to play another TWF'er in LG, I'd probably do something close to that.
MFLabias 07-07-07, 01:26 AM	Thank you all very much for your input. I had hoped to do something fancy with TWF Rapiers - but I really don't feel so hot about it anymore when I thought about the charging, powerattacking, combat brute, with two handed weapons and their domination of melee. So Instead I've decided to go with a Gish - really standard, but hopefully effective Gish. Because of the low point by system in Greyhawk, I plan on going the Fighter -> Wizard -> Spellsword -> Eldritch Knight route. I've heard great things about Abjurant Champions, but I noticed them on the banned class list. Basically I plan on buffing myself as much as possible before entering combat, casting some utility spells like Tasha's Hideous Laughter and Knock, and then Knowing a lot about arcana and religion. Think that'll be worthwhile. SIDE NOTE: I played a Greyhawk adventure today that was room by room combats - a sign that melee monsters do have their place.