melee spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

melee spellcaster [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
phibrizzow
10-08-06, 11:07 AM I wanted to try to play a melee spellcaster for awhile know so here is my try at it.
wood elf Paladin2/Sorcerer5/Spellsword1/Eldritch KnightX
Str 16
Dex 16
Con 12
Int 10
Wis 8
Cha 14

1. Paladin1 weapon focus(great sword)
2. paladin2
3. Sorcerer1 practiced spellcaster
4. Sorcerer2
5. Sorcerer3
6. Sorcerer4 Leadership
7. Spellsword1
8. Sorcerer5
9. Eldritch Knight1 Arcane Strike Power Attack
10. Eldritch Knight2
11. Eldritch Knight3
12. Eldritch knight4 ( i'm thinking improved toughness for extra hp)
13. Eldritch knight5
14. Eldrithc Knight6
15. Eldrithc knight7 (open feet)
I'm not sure what to put stat bumps at.
i choose to go paladin2 for the divine grace so my saves will not be horrible. i toke sorcerer at 3 level for 2 reasons 1. with practiced spellcaster i have a caster level of 3 at 1 level and 2. i can choose spells that are out of different books right off from the start. i took Leadership because the tables i play at we almost never have a complete table of 6 people.
tell me what you think about it and any tips i could use.
Oogar
10-08-06, 02:22 PM Hmmm, maybe I am being dense... but is your 5th level of sorcerer going to do anything for you in the long run? No Saves, and while you get 3rd level spells at level 8 rather then level 9... I think you might be better off just biting the bullet and starting EK at level 8. You can still take Arcane Strike at level 9, and Power Attack as your bonus feat at level 8.
DuctShuiTengu
10-08-06, 02:44 PM EK requires you to be able to cast 3rd level spells. It could be done with 2 more levels of Spellsword, but that's going to cost you more caster levels, which is hardly ideal.

On the other hand, if you can meet the skill requirements for it, a single level of Bladesinger in that spot gets you the +1 Caster level, a point of BAB, and +2 to Will and Reflex saves (Reflex is looking a bit low). Though from the looks of it, you'd need 3 more skill-points (or 6 since they're all cross-class) by then to cover just the bare minimums required for spellsword and Bladesinger (and that's leaving you with far too few ranks in Concentration and none at all in Spellcraft).

Beyond that... I'm generally not a fan of gish builds (I like the idea and all, but they generally end up losing too much spellcasting for not enough melee ability.) but this looks at least reasonably OK (though I still don't like sacraficing 3 caster levels off of a Sorcerer (already behind 1) since it means that by the time you get into EK, the straight wizards will be casting spells 2 levels higher than yours.)
phibrizzow
10-08-06, 03:58 PM i did not think that far ahead. in the short term run i thought it was a good try. here is another build for a melee spellcaster that has better spell progression.

Dwarf Barbarian1/Wizard5/Eldritch KnightX
Str 14
Dex 14
Con 16
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 6

1. Barbarian1 weapon focus(Great Axe)
2. Wizard1 Scribe Scroll
3. Wizard2 Power Attack
4. Wizard3 Int
5. Wizard4
6. Wizard5 Practiced spellcaster (not sure for wizard feet)
7. Eldritch Knight1
8. Eldritch Knight2 Int
9. Eldritch Knight3 Arcane Strike
10.Eldritch Knight4
11.Eldritch Knight5
12.Eldritch Knight6 Quicken spell Int
13.Eldritch Knight7
14.Eldritch Knight8
15.Eldritch Knight9 (Feet?)

this build i went Barbarian for the extra Hp and if all my spells are gone i can rage and take someone out. and i am sacraficing the least amount as posible for what i can see. any help on this one will be helpful.
Namarus
10-08-06, 06:27 PM A build I was toying with, that was similiar to your original build.

Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Spellsword 1/ Eldritch Knight 6

13 levels of casting.

12 BAB

Evasion
Sieylianna
10-08-06, 08:49 PM 1. Barbarian1 weapon focus(Great Axe)
2. Wizard1 Scribe Scroll
3. Wizard2 Power Attack
4. Wizard3 Int
5. Wizard4
6. Wizard5 Practiced spellcaster (not sure for wizard feet)
7. Eldritch Knight1
8. Eldritch Knight2 Int

I'd recommend power attack at 1st and practiced spellcaster at 3rd. You can always take weapon focus with the eldritch knight bonus feat.

Ed
Timlagor
10-10-06, 08:13 AM Your Wizard Feat is CWI.
Morgen
10-10-06, 04:00 PM You could always hope that Duskblade from the PH2 is made core access?

Otherwise there are a lot of ways to flavor a warrior and another spellcasting class. The only real problem with it is that as you go up in APL your hurling yourself against higher and higher SR.

Though to be fair there are pleanty of spells that stay rather powerful the whole game if you've got the caster level to back them up. That Divine Oracle build looks nice, but you've got to have the feat Skill Focus: Knowledge Relgion which I'd assume you wouldn't want to take.
UMiskatonic
10-10-06, 04:25 PM Hey,

Don't be so tough on yourself. Your first build was fine. It's assumed that you came here to make it better, that's all. The advice is aimed in that direction.

We're not shy. If we meant "rip it up and start over", we'd say so....

So with paladin 2/sorceror 4/spellsword1/sorceror5/eldritch knight 7, you have a pretty good build.

I think I would personally pass on sorceror 5, and take either two levels of spellsword, or one level in a prestige class that advances spellcasting. Luckily, that decision is a year away, so you can think about it.

It's not that sorceror 5 is a horrible choice. It's not. But if we can find something better, than why not? Try Ruathar out of Races of the Wild perhaps...

As for stat bumps, I've got two thoughts. One is "Good god, man, more CON" Another is "How will you fight?" If you're an archer, a 12 CON might be okay for a while. You can balance HP with AC for a while, but eventually (APL 6-8) that stops working.

Either way, I'd look toward spells and magic items that helped Str and Con. False Life would also be a great choice.
phibrizzow
10-10-06, 08:12 PM i know, i was not being tough on my self, just putting another build out that i could look at to see which one was better. i still like to first one better and it goes along with my theme more. i was going twords fight in melee and less ranged but with my con so low that might not be a good idea. improved toughness will improve my hit points more and my 9 level eldritch knight feet takes care of that. if i went with ranged fighting, at what levels should i take when.

i was planing to save up for a a amulet of health after i got my armor or weapon +1. i could buy the amulet of health first and when i reach 3rd level learn magic weapon for one of my sorceror spells.

if i went spellsword to third level i would have a higher base attack and an extra 5% spell failure less and one extra bonus feet, but that would put my spells 4 levels behind and thats realy far behind. if i would take spellsword to 3 level and drop sorceror5 what would i take for the bonus feet.

i have not thought of Ruathar and if i woudld take Ruathar, how many levels, just one or go all the way. also, how would the gift of the elves work.

for my stat bumps i was going to put in ether con,cha or dex,str depends on how i plan on fighting.
Sieylianna
10-10-06, 09:56 PM i have not thought of Ruathar and if i woudld take Ruathar, how many levels, just one or go all the way. also, how would the gift of the elves work.

Ruathar is limited, so you'd need access first. I've never seen it on an AR, but I'm sure the gift of the elves is going to be a minor benefit in LG.

Ed
Japangirl
10-11-06, 01:38 PM Some meta-orgs give access to Ruathar, check your region to see if any of them are in there. Also COR 5-12 Return to the Undercity can give access as well.
copper_wyrmling
10-12-06, 09:39 PM Some meta-orgs give access to Ruathar, check your region to see if any of them are in there. Also COR 5-12 Return to the Undercity can give access as well.

Not on my AR... nor in the version of the module I ran... (is it a spoiler to reveal that something *isn't* in a module?)
_m_
10-20-06, 12:12 AM personaly, i think if you want a melee spellcaster, make a full shaper character (dump stats on str, dex and con, and stay shaped all combats).

either a druid with alot invested in shaping, with nat spell

or what i took was a wizzard with a level of warshaper. you can buff yourself up the ying yang, morph into a large dragon, then give urself +1 size weapons (huge) and your imune to crits. another lvl or 2 and ur getting +reach, and +4 con and str.

it just seems to me that if you want a caster combat class, you should be doing it through shaping, rather than sort of multicalssing.
Lomiat
10-23-06, 01:20 PM If you're looking to make a melee spellcaster of any sort, I'd strongly recommend finding room for Extraordinary Spell Aim at 12th level so that you can shape an Antimagic Field around you. When you get your magic, but nothing fighting you gets its magic, you suddenly have a potent tool in your box that no fighter will ever have. While you'll never be as much a fighter as a straight melee type, nor as much a caster as a straight caster, you'll be able to alter the rules for how both types of characters interact with you and you with them.

(Plus, if any of the Complete Mage's PrCs become legal, the 5-level PrC that adds its PrC level to the AC bonus of each of your Force effects is just **sick**: full fighter BAB and a d10 hit die. By the 5th level of the class, you get 11 AC from your Greater Mage Armor and 9 AC from your Shield spell.)
wooti
10-23-06, 07:51 PM (Plus, if any of the Complete Mage's PrCs become legal, the 5-level PrC that adds its PrC level to the AC bonus of each of your Force effects is just **sick**: full fighter BAB and a d10 hit die. By the 5th level of the class, you get 11 AC from your Greater Mage Armor and 9 AC from your Shield spell.)

I hope they never make this one legal its just too good, its so good that not only every gish will have it but most straight mages as well.
_m_
10-23-06, 08:03 PM yeah, the more overpowered classes they let in, the more the system will suck.
Lomiat
10-23-06, 11:46 PM I hope they never make this one legal its just too good, its so good that not only every gish will have it but most straight mages as well.

I wholeheartedly agree. Despite the fact the PrC requires Combat Casting (aka The Single Most Worthless Feat Known to PCs), the class is so good, my Wiz would pick up Combat Casting in a heartbeat to take even 2 levels of it, and would eagerly pick it up in a rebuild if one came around. It's the sort of PrC that's so good, it would make me regret getting to 11th level before the class became available.

That said, as a player, I stand against allowing classes that are just obviously so much better than others. Once they're allowed, I'll use them, but I'd prefer not to see them allowed.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
phibrizzow 10-08-06, 11:07 AM	I wanted to try to play a melee spellcaster for awhile know so here is my try at it. wood elf Paladin2/Sorcerer5/Spellsword1/Eldritch KnightX Str 16 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 10 Wis 8 Cha 14 1. Paladin1 weapon focus(great sword) 2. paladin2 3. Sorcerer1 practiced spellcaster 4. Sorcerer2 5. Sorcerer3 6. Sorcerer4 Leadership 7. Spellsword1 8. Sorcerer5 9. Eldritch Knight1 Arcane Strike Power Attack 10. Eldritch Knight2 11. Eldritch Knight3 12. Eldritch knight4 ( i'm thinking improved toughness for extra hp) 13. Eldritch knight5 14. Eldrithc Knight6 15. Eldrithc knight7 (open feet) I'm not sure what to put stat bumps at. i choose to go paladin2 for the divine grace so my saves will not be horrible. i toke sorcerer at 3 level for 2 reasons 1. with practiced spellcaster i have a caster level of 3 at 1 level and 2. i can choose spells that are out of different books right off from the start. i took Leadership because the tables i play at we almost never have a complete table of 6 people. tell me what you think about it and any tips i could use.
Oogar 10-08-06, 02:22 PM	Hmmm, maybe I am being dense... but is your 5th level of sorcerer going to do anything for you in the long run? No Saves, and while you get 3rd level spells at level 8 rather then level 9... I think you might be better off just biting the bullet and starting EK at level 8. You can still take Arcane Strike at level 9, and Power Attack as your bonus feat at level 8.
DuctShuiTengu 10-08-06, 02:44 PM	EK requires you to be able to cast 3rd level spells. It could be done with 2 more levels of Spellsword, but that's going to cost you more caster levels, which is hardly ideal. On the other hand, if you can meet the skill requirements for it, a single level of Bladesinger in that spot gets you the +1 Caster level, a point of BAB, and +2 to Will and Reflex saves (Reflex is looking a bit low). Though from the looks of it, you'd need 3 more skill-points (or 6 since they're all cross-class) by then to cover just the bare minimums required for spellsword and Bladesinger (and that's leaving you with far too few ranks in Concentration and none at all in Spellcraft). Beyond that... I'm generally not a fan of gish builds (I like the idea and all, but they generally end up losing too much spellcasting for not enough melee ability.) but this looks at least reasonably OK (though I still don't like sacraficing 3 caster levels off of a Sorcerer (already behind 1) since it means that by the time you get into EK, the straight wizards will be casting spells 2 levels higher than yours.)
phibrizzow 10-08-06, 03:58 PM	i did not think that far ahead. in the short term run i thought it was a good try. here is another build for a melee spellcaster that has better spell progression. Dwarf Barbarian1/Wizard5/Eldritch KnightX Str 14 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 16 Wis 8 Cha 6 1. Barbarian1 weapon focus(Great Axe) 2. Wizard1 Scribe Scroll 3. Wizard2 Power Attack 4. Wizard3 Int 5. Wizard4 6. Wizard5 Practiced spellcaster (not sure for wizard feet) 7. Eldritch Knight1 8. Eldritch Knight2 Int 9. Eldritch Knight3 Arcane Strike 10.Eldritch Knight4 11.Eldritch Knight5 12.Eldritch Knight6 Quicken spell Int 13.Eldritch Knight7 14.Eldritch Knight8 15.Eldritch Knight9 (Feet?) this build i went Barbarian for the extra Hp and if all my spells are gone i can rage and take someone out. and i am sacraficing the least amount as posible for what i can see. any help on this one will be helpful.
Namarus 10-08-06, 06:27 PM	A build I was toying with, that was similiar to your original build. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 4/ Divine Oracle 2/ Spellsword 1/ Eldritch Knight 6 13 levels of casting. 12 BAB Evasion
Sieylianna 10-08-06, 08:49 PM	1. Barbarian1 weapon focus(Great Axe) 2. Wizard1 Scribe Scroll 3. Wizard2 Power Attack 4. Wizard3 Int 5. Wizard4 6. Wizard5 Practiced spellcaster (not sure for wizard feet) 7. Eldritch Knight1 8. Eldritch Knight2 Int I'd recommend power attack at 1st and practiced spellcaster at 3rd. You can always take weapon focus with the eldritch knight bonus feat. Ed
Timlagor 10-10-06, 08:13 AM	Your Wizard Feat is CWI.
Morgen 10-10-06, 04:00 PM	You could always hope that Duskblade from the PH2 is made core access? Otherwise there are a lot of ways to flavor a warrior and another spellcasting class. The only real problem with it is that as you go up in APL your hurling yourself against higher and higher SR. Though to be fair there are pleanty of spells that stay rather powerful the whole game if you've got the caster level to back them up. That Divine Oracle build looks nice, but you've got to have the feat Skill Focus: Knowledge Relgion which I'd assume you wouldn't want to take.
UMiskatonic 10-10-06, 04:25 PM	Hey, Don't be so tough on yourself. Your first build was fine. It's assumed that you came here to make it better, that's all. The advice is aimed in that direction. We're not shy. If we meant "rip it up and start over", we'd say so.... So with paladin 2/sorceror 4/spellsword1/sorceror5/eldritch knight 7, you have a pretty good build. I think I would personally pass on sorceror 5, and take either two levels of spellsword, or one level in a prestige class that advances spellcasting. Luckily, that decision is a year away, so you can think about it. It's not that sorceror 5 is a horrible choice. It's not. But if we can find something better, than why not? Try Ruathar out of Races of the Wild perhaps... As for stat bumps, I've got two thoughts. One is "Good god, man, more CON" Another is "How will you fight?" If you're an archer, a 12 CON might be okay for a while. You can balance HP with AC for a while, but eventually (APL 6-8) that stops working. Either way, I'd look toward spells and magic items that helped Str and Con. False Life would also be a great choice.
phibrizzow 10-10-06, 08:12 PM	i know, i was not being tough on my self, just putting another build out that i could look at to see which one was better. i still like to first one better and it goes along with my theme more. i was going twords fight in melee and less ranged but with my con so low that might not be a good idea. improved toughness will improve my hit points more and my 9 level eldritch knight feet takes care of that. if i went with ranged fighting, at what levels should i take when. i was planing to save up for a a amulet of health after i got my armor or weapon +1. i could buy the amulet of health first and when i reach 3rd level learn magic weapon for one of my sorceror spells. if i went spellsword to third level i would have a higher base attack and an extra 5% spell failure less and one extra bonus feet, but that would put my spells 4 levels behind and thats realy far behind. if i would take spellsword to 3 level and drop sorceror5 what would i take for the bonus feet. i have not thought of Ruathar and if i woudld take Ruathar, how many levels, just one or go all the way. also, how would the gift of the elves work. for my stat bumps i was going to put in ether con,cha or dex,str depends on how i plan on fighting.
Sieylianna 10-10-06, 09:56 PM	i have not thought of Ruathar and if i woudld take Ruathar, how many levels, just one or go all the way. also, how would the gift of the elves work. Ruathar is limited, so you'd need access first. I've never seen it on an AR, but I'm sure the gift of the elves is going to be a minor benefit in LG. Ed
Japangirl 10-11-06, 01:38 PM	Some meta-orgs give access to Ruathar, check your region to see if any of them are in there. Also COR 5-12 Return to the Undercity can give access as well.
copper_wyrmling 10-12-06, 09:39 PM	Some meta-orgs give access to Ruathar, check your region to see if any of them are in there. Also COR 5-12 Return to the Undercity can give access as well. Not on my AR... nor in the version of the module I ran... (is it a spoiler to reveal that something isn't in a module?)
_m_ 10-20-06, 12:12 AM	personaly, i think if you want a melee spellcaster, make a full shaper character (dump stats on str, dex and con, and stay shaped all combats). either a druid with alot invested in shaping, with nat spell or what i took was a wizzard with a level of warshaper. you can buff yourself up the ying yang, morph into a large dragon, then give urself +1 size weapons (huge) and your imune to crits. another lvl or 2 and ur getting +reach, and +4 con and str. it just seems to me that if you want a caster combat class, you should be doing it through shaping, rather than sort of multicalssing.
Lomiat 10-23-06, 01:20 PM	If you're looking to make a melee spellcaster of any sort, I'd strongly recommend finding room for Extraordinary Spell Aim at 12th level so that you can shape an Antimagic Field around you. When you get your magic, but nothing fighting you gets its magic, you suddenly have a potent tool in your box that no fighter will ever have. While you'll never be as much a fighter as a straight melee type, nor as much a caster as a straight caster, you'll be able to alter the rules for how both types of characters interact with you and you with them. (Plus, if any of the Complete Mage's PrCs become legal, the 5-level PrC that adds its PrC level to the AC bonus of each of your Force effects is just sick: full fighter BAB and a d10 hit die. By the 5th level of the class, you get 11 AC from your Greater Mage Armor and 9 AC from your Shield spell.)
wooti 10-23-06, 07:51 PM	(Plus, if any of the Complete Mage's PrCs become legal, the 5-level PrC that adds its PrC level to the AC bonus of each of your Force effects is just sick: full fighter BAB and a d10 hit die. By the 5th level of the class, you get 11 AC from your Greater Mage Armor and 9 AC from your Shield spell.) I hope they never make this one legal its just too good, its so good that not only every gish will have it but most straight mages as well.
_m_ 10-23-06, 08:03 PM	yeah, the more overpowered classes they let in, the more the system will suck.
Lomiat 10-23-06, 11:46 PM	I hope they never make this one legal its just too good, its so good that not only every gish will have it but most straight mages as well. I wholeheartedly agree. Despite the fact the PrC requires Combat Casting (aka The Single Most Worthless Feat Known to PCs), the class is so good, my Wiz would pick up Combat Casting in a heartbeat to take even 2 levels of it, and would eagerly pick it up in a rebuild if one came around. It's the sort of PrC that's so good, it would make me regret getting to 11th level before the class became available. That said, as a player, I stand against allowing classes that are just obviously so much better than others. Once they're allowed, I'll use them, but I'd prefer not to see them allowed.