Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MwaO 01-01-08, 12:28 PM	I've gotten some interesting access for my monk caster, and I've been puzzling out which route to go. In combat, she's a high to superhigh AC, great saves, high damage BDF. Her to-hit isn't great, but she has a number of ways of compensating for it(Improved Grapple, Ascetic Mage, GMW and Arcane Strike as of 12th) She's a Monk 2/Sorc 3/Paladin 2/Enlightened Fist 4. Str 24, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 18 Belt of Str +6, Boots of Speed, Cloak +4, Con Amulet +2, Gloves of Dex +2, +1 Sacred Starmetal Kama, Bracers of Armor +1(usually has Greater Mage Armor, but not always), Vest of Resist +1, Lesser Rod of Extend Spell, 2 Memento Magica 1s, Iron Ward Diamond Crystal, Lesser Revelation Crystal, 3 Least Return Crystals Plans to craft Bracers of Armor +5, Vest of Resist +4 some Memento 1s, upgrade Cloak, Amulet, and Gloves. Dusty Rose Ioun stone. Will likely upgrade the Kama at some point - has pretty much any DMG weapon access she'd want. Feats: 1: Combat Casting, Improved Grapple, Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike 2: Combat Reflexes 3: Practiced Spellcaster 6: Craft Wondrous 9: Ascetic Mage (12: Arcane Strike) Spells: 1: Chill Touch, Nerveskitter, Shield, Blades of Flame 2: False Life, Bladeweave 3: Greater Magic Weapon Okay, so here's the particular access she has: Stalwart Sorcerer - more hit points, WF in selected weapon, lose 1 spell known. Practiced Meditation - +2 to saves vs evil opponents - lose Still Mind Holy Strike - all monk weapons become good aligned, do an extra d6 of damage to evil opponents, lose Ki Focus from Monk Able to take Monk levels again from Enlightened Fist Then here are the options: Monk 2 -> 4, Sorcerer 3 -> 4, and Spellsword 1. Retrain into Stalwart Sorcerer. Pros: Pretty cool damage, hit points, and saves. Gets +11 BAB. Cons: Only 1 3rd and 4th level spell known each, only 8th level caster, only 2 more stunning fist attempts. Enlightened Fist 4 -> 8. Pros: Easier to mark on an AR, special burst and can hold ray spells to use with her normal attack. Lots of skill points, which she needs to max out Spot and Tumble. 9th level Sorcerer. Cons: Only +10 BAB. Sorcerer 3 -> 6, Spellsword 1. Retrain into Stalwart Sorcerer. Pros: 5th level spells. Cons: Only +10 BAB, only 1 more stunning fist, poor skills. --------- I'm leaning towards the Enlightened Fist, simply because it would be easier to mark on an AR. But wondered what other people thought?
Lomiat 01-01-08, 01:00 PM	Then here are the options: Monk 2 -> 4, Sorcerer 3 -> 4, and Spellsword 1. Retrain into Stalwart Sorcerer. Pros: Pretty cool damage, hit points, and saves. Gets +11 BAB. Cons: Only 1 3rd and 4th level spell known each, only 8th level caster, only 2 more stunning fist attempts. Enlightened Fist 4 -> 8. Pros: Easier to mark on an AR, special burst and can hold ray spells to use with her normal attack. Lots of skill points, which she needs to max out Spot and Tumble. 9th level Sorcerer. Cons: Only +10 BAB. Sorcerer 3 -> 6, Spellsword 1. Retrain into Stalwart Sorcerer. Pros: 5th level spells. Cons: Only +10 BAB, only 1 more stunning fist, poor skills. --------- I'm leaning towards the Enlightened Fist, simply because it would be easier to mark on an AR. But wondered what other people thought? It depends on the 5th-level spell you think you'd select, but I'd lean toward the first option. The CL difference between 8 and 10 is unlikely to make much difference for you unless you've been burning all your spell slots lately. The extra attack, extra saves and extra HPs should trump the 5th-level spell for your melee-style play unless you've got a really nice synergy in mind for that 5th-level spell.
MwaO 01-01-08, 01:47 PM	She burns spells and stunning fists attempts like there's no tomorrow. She can easily use 2-3 spells and a stunning fist attempt every single round of every single combat. She also self-buffs - in a 3 combat day, it isn't unlikely that she'll cast False Life 3 times, GMW twice. For the 8th level caster, that's a lot of her spells. The other big issue with the 1st option is spells known - as a 9th level caster without stalwart, I'll know 4 2nd, 3 3rd, and 2 4th. The 10th knows the same, except 1 4th and 1 5th. As an 8th, that drops to 3 2nd, 1 3rd, and 1 4th. It isn't just what I might do with the 5th level spell, but the other 3 extra spells known...
Koushiro 01-01-08, 06:54 PM	Where the heck do you play at? I want some of this amazing gold you've been getting.
MwaO 01-01-08, 08:42 PM	You can do the same thing pretty much anywhere - she's a crafter who is 11th level...her belt of str +6 cost 19000 as an example. Most melee types should be able to afford a belt +4 by 10th level and end up paying nearly as much as she did for the +6.
dkay807 01-02-08, 12:16 AM	I would actually go for Monk 4/Sorc 4 and Spellsword 1. It gives you a stronger foundation by increasing your base unarmed damage, giving you better spellcasting, improving your BAB and improving your saves quite a bit (not that you need it). I'm curious - why didn't you ever go for Paladin 4? It seems like Divine Might would give you quite a nice damage boost. Then again, I can see why you wouldn't want to sink 2 levels and spend 2 feats just to get a +5 or +6 damage boost to all of your attacks. At the end of the day, any of the options you outlined work just fine. I personally can't deal with that many BAB hits, but that's just me. As long as you focus on increasing your consistency, you should be fine.
dkay807 01-02-08, 12:22 AM	You can do the same thing pretty much anywhere - she's a crafter who is 11th level...her belt of str +6 cost 19000 as an example. Most melee types should be able to afford a belt +4 by 10th level and end up paying nearly as much as she did for the +6. By the way, how are you crafting all of those stat items? Are you consistently crafting and swapping out spells known each level? That seems like quite a balancing act. If I were your judge and the campaign wasn't ending this year anyway, I'd probably audit you (not to sound like a jerk and not that I've ever audited someone before).
boolean 01-02-08, 12:45 AM	By the way, how are you crafting all of those stat items? Are you consistently crafting and swapping out spells known each level? That seems like quite a balancing act. If I were your judge and the campaign wasn't ending this year anyway, I'd probably audit you (not to sound like a jerk and not that I've ever audited someone before). Probably by using scrolls. For the stat boost items, 150 gp per day of crafting means it works out as a 35% discount instead of 50%, but it's still a significant benefit.
bitznarf 01-02-08, 02:33 AM	Right, hence 19000 for a belt +6 rather than 16000
MwaO 01-02-08, 08:17 AM	By the way, how are you crafting all of those stat items? Are you consistently crafting and swapping out spells known each level? That seems like quite a balancing act. If I were your judge and the campaign wasn't ending this year anyway, I'd probably audit you (not to sound like a jerk and not that I've ever audited someone before). With the exception of the Belt of Strength, just used scrolls. I saved up a bunch of gold prior to 9th level, took Bull's Strength as my spell known, then crafted the +4. Then right before making 10th, did the +6. Retrained Bull's Strength into False Life. I probably could save a little more money by doing it again, but it isn't worth the hassle in general. That I was going from 0 to 36000 made it worth it - 3800 gold at 9th is a big deal. All the MICs are marked up with scrolls used in the special notes area :) Scrolls really aren't that expensive to use. Except for the Boots of Speed. That was a little annoying(10500 for a 12000 item)
MwaO 01-02-08, 10:22 AM	I would actually go for Monk 4/Sorc 4 and Spellsword 1. It gives you a stronger foundation by increasing your base unarmed damage, giving you better spellcasting, improving your BAB and improving your saves quite a bit (not that you need it). I'm curious - why didn't you ever go for Paladin 4? It seems like Divine Might would give you quite a nice damage boost. Then again, I can see why you wouldn't want to sink 2 levels and spend 2 feats just to get a +5 or +6 damage boost to all of your attacks. Paladin 4 - means she's a Monk 2/Sorc 3/Paladin 4 before she can enter Enlightened Fist - which also means not qualifying for Arcane Strike until 15th and Ascetic Mage until 12th. Not to mention, she doesn't have the feats for Power Attack, let alone Divine Might. And without Ascetic Knight, she gets dinged for a monk damage step. Her BAB really isn't that much of an issue, especially past 11th - even with just +7 BAB, her attack sequence might look like this at 12th: +19/19/19/14(+7 BAB, -2 Flurry, +1 Haste, +7 Str, +2 GMW, +1 Ascetic Mage, +3 Arcane Strike) doing 1d8+10+3d4+1d6+1d6(average of 29)(+7 Str, +2 GMW, +1 Ascetic Mage, +3d4 Arcane Strike, +1d6 Electrical or Fire, +1d6 Chill Touch) It isn't amazing, but in the context that she's usually APL+20 AC, has really great saves, False Life for +15 hp, and moves 50'/round even without Haste, she's actually a pretty decent BDF. And some of those things will start to look more like your Spellsword once she gets near 15th.
Hariman 01-02-08, 08:13 PM	I recommend using "Stalwart Sorcerer" Extra BAB/HP is a very good thing for that type of build. Having only a few spells known is a problem, BUT if you're burning a lot of spells via Arcane Strike, then the spells per day is what really matters. Also, you should have two spells of your SECOND highest level spell while your highest level spells are stuck at 1 for an extra level. Stalwart sorcerer only takes one spell known of your highest level spell. And when you get a new level of spells (like 3rd level spells at level 6) you regain those spells known for the prior highest level of spells known. (So when you hit level 6, you go from knowing one level 2 spell to knowing 2, instead of learning your second second level spell at level 5.) Oh, and I'd skip monk levels 3 and 4. I'd just take 2 more levels of sorcerer instead. The extra spellcasting will be a major boost. Greater Blink anyone? +5/5d4 Arcane Strike?