Mounted Scout [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mounted Scout [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alpha_Nerd
02-23-07, 02:17 PM Ok, I'm a Scout 3 that owns a heavy warhorse. My first move action is moving around the horse 20 ft, as shown in the diagram.

0 = Starting point
8 = Ending Point
X = Mount
- = empty square
> = movement path

-XX-
0XX8
->>-

Next, I quick mount(assuming I make the DC20 ride check), and then my Mount Charges the opponent.

Would I get skirmish? Also, say I was Wild Plains Outrider 3, if my mount did a single move after I got on it, could I Full Attack after it moves?

Wild Plains Offensive (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a wild plains outrider can make a full attack with a melee weapon as long as his mount takes only a single move.

It makes me sad that I don't get skirmish for movement done while on a mount, so I'm trying to stick it to the man by doing stupid stuff like this :)
Gwumph
02-23-07, 02:53 PM LOL nice try Alpha

NO :)

For the wild plains outrider. Your mount gets a move action after your full attack. Not you
So no you can't run around your horse and still get a full attack.

But that ability makes no sense for a archer type. Since you don't even need mounted combat feat to have your mount move- you do a full attack action- then your mount moves again.

you can do that with no feats at all. you can do that on a light horse (although a warhorse would be better)

Second one, yes and no. Yes you can move around and jump on and then yes your mount can do a charge action. You can't since you have already moved and Charging is a full round action.
Alpha_Nerd
02-23-07, 02:58 PM Well, when your mount charges you aren't charging yourself, you just get the bonuses and penalties of charging. It's weird, but that's how it's worded.

"If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance. "
jstorrie
02-24-07, 03:54 AM Scouts don't get skirmish bonuses on mount movement. They also (according to Infinite Monkeys) don't get skirmish bonuses after teleportation.
Alpha_Nerd
02-24-07, 04:23 PM right, the scout moved 20 ft before mounting up though, which should give him his skirmish bonus.
LachlarlanIII
02-26-07, 12:44 PM Yes, but he still only gets one attack.
Howie23
02-26-07, 02:33 PM right, the scout moved 20 ft before mounting up though, which should give him his skirmish bonus.

You will often find that judges are opposed to permitting movement on foot in addition to movement mounted, or at least in such a way that uses more that a single set of actions. The reasoning is that the actions permitted in a round are limited by the amount of time in a round. The full round action of the mount to charge takes the full round. Adding additional activity to that essentially uses more time than is available in the round.

Extreme example: A mounted ranger on a light horse is being chased by a mounted fighter on a light horse. The ranger's horse runs at maximum speed (a full round action), 250 ft w/run. At the end of that time, the ranger quick dismounts and runs at his full speed (a full round action), 120 ft. Both the ranger and his mount have each used a full round action, but they are sequential. The ranger has moved 370ft in 6 seconds, faster than the pursuing horse.

David
Timlagor
02-27-07, 09:04 PM IF the judge wants to stop you he'll just require you to take a move action to Handle your mount to charge :)
Howie23
02-27-07, 11:08 PM IF the judge wants to stop you he'll just require you to take a move action to Handle your mount to charge :)

Tim, I've merely come to the conclusion that the mounted rules are inconsistent piles of manure, particularly after customer service answered that question in a multitude of different ways, including the above.

Thanks for the trip down memory lane, though. :)

David
Britt
02-27-07, 11:28 PM Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend.
copper_wyrmling
02-27-07, 11:53 PM Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend.

But you can make full attacks with a ranged weapon (or cast spells) while your mount moves or double-moves - that's explicit. So the "mount move = your move" isn't true for all purposes, you can still do move + fast mount + standard action + mount moves if the standard action is one that can be taken from the back of a moving horse. At least, that's my understanding.
Britt
02-27-07, 11:55 PM But you can make full attacks with a ranged weapon (or cast spells) while your mount moves or double-moves - that's explicit. So the "mount move = your move" isn't true for all purposes, you can still do move + fast mount + standard action + mount moves if the standard action is one that can be taken from the back of a moving horse. At least, that's my understanding.
Yes, if it explicitly tells you you can, but not otherwise.
Gwumph
02-28-07, 03:28 AM I don't know Britt.

I gotta disagree with you. The PHB explicitly says it uses it's actions to move, not yours.

The rules only say you are not allowed to make more than a single melee attack if your mount moves more than 5ft.

Your are allowed to make a full range attack, even if your mount moves double or quadruple speed.

Ditto for spellcasting as long as the spell is a standard action or less.

I would say if your mount moves double or less
you are allowed to:

- draw a potion and drink it
- draw a alchemical weapon and throw it
- any 2 move or move equvilent actions
- a move/eq action and a standard action
- a full round action (that does not include a charge, multiple attacks, a full ranged attack, or spellcasting "see special rules")

What you would not be allowed to do:
- a move then full attack action
- a move then charge
- a move then full round action

The books mentions several points where a mounted character in conjuction with his mounts move action, the PC gets his full 2 actions.

So a PC moves 20 feet {move action}, leaps onto the back of his horse (fast mount/free action) spurs the horse onwards with his knees (guide mount/free action), horse does a double move forward not a charge (horses 2 move actions) and PC swings a sword at the orc (standard action).

Hey it works in the movies!!!:D

Cheers
Gwumph
Timlagor
02-28-07, 12:58 PM Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend.

It does explicitly say that you can take a full ranged attack. That you didn't know that implies that you don't really know the relevant rules here and your comments (quoted) don't match well with what the rules do say.

Moving before mounting is more problematic than if you spend the whole round mounted.
Britt
02-28-07, 01:01 PM It does explicitly say that you can take a full ranged attack. That you didn't know that implies that you don't really know the relevant rules here and your comments (quoted) don't match well with what the rules do say.
Who said I didn't read that or that I didn't know that rule? That is an explicit exception. If it were the norm, it wouldn't need to be stated. Sorry, in the future I'll be sure to explicitly list every single exception to a rule when I talk about it, so that every post I make is the length of the FAQ.
Timlagor
03-01-07, 09:27 AM Yes, if it explicitly tells you you can, but not otherwise.

I misunderstood this to mean that you weren't sure that it said you could. Sorry about that.
Jay_Ibero_911
03-01-07, 12:31 PM Personally I don't think mounted combat and determining actions isn't as complicated as everyone is making it out to be. A round of actions is approximately 6 seconds. In those 6 seconds, a character can take any combination of standard and move actions available to them. In the example with the scout moving, quick mounting, then having the mount charge and attack, it's not valid because the PC has already used their move action, so that means the mount had to wait for the PC to move, so it wouldn't have time to charge by the time the PC mounted. The mount could take a move or standard action, and the PC would still have his standard action, but the PC wouldn't be able to take any action that required the mount to finish it's action first because the 6 seconds of their turn are consumed by moving to the mount and the mount then taking it's action. It requires a little though on a case by case basis, but it's pretty straightforward matter of timing. For instance, a PC could move to a mount, quick mount, have the mount move, and while the mount is moving drink a potion (assuming the potion was already in hand), because drinking the potion is not dependant on the mount finishing it's move. Drinking the potion and the mount moving are simultaneous actions all able to occur in the 6 second window of the round. This may not be completely RAW, but I think most people would agree it is a sensible interpretation...Another example of simultaneous mounted actions is spellcasting while your mount takes a double move, assuming you don't need your mount to finish moving in order to target your spell.
Britt
03-01-07, 01:55 PM I misunderstood this to mean that you weren't sure that it said you could. Sorry about that.
No worries.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 02:17 PM	Ok, I'm a Scout 3 that owns a heavy warhorse. My first move action is moving around the horse 20 ft, as shown in the diagram. 0 = Starting point 8 = Ending Point X = Mount - = empty square > = movement path -XX- 0XX8 ->>- Next, I quick mount(assuming I make the DC20 ride check), and then my Mount Charges the opponent. Would I get skirmish? Also, say I was Wild Plains Outrider 3, if my mount did a single move after I got on it, could I Full Attack after it moves? Wild Plains Offensive (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, a wild plains outrider can make a full attack with a melee weapon as long as his mount takes only a single move. It makes me sad that I don't get skirmish for movement done while on a mount, so I'm trying to stick it to the man by doing stupid stuff like this :)
Gwumph 02-23-07, 02:53 PM	LOL nice try Alpha NO :) For the wild plains outrider. Your mount gets a move action after your full attack. Not you So no you can't run around your horse and still get a full attack. But that ability makes no sense for a archer type. Since you don't even need mounted combat feat to have your mount move- you do a full attack action- then your mount moves again. you can do that with no feats at all. you can do that on a light horse (although a warhorse would be better) Second one, yes and no. Yes you can move around and jump on and then yes your mount can do a charge action. You can't since you have already moved and Charging is a full round action.
Alpha_Nerd 02-23-07, 02:58 PM	Well, when your mount charges you aren't charging yourself, you just get the bonuses and penalties of charging. It's weird, but that's how it's worded. "If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you make an attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance. "
jstorrie 02-24-07, 03:54 AM	Scouts don't get skirmish bonuses on mount movement. They also (according to Infinite Monkeys) don't get skirmish bonuses after teleportation.
Alpha_Nerd 02-24-07, 04:23 PM	right, the scout moved 20 ft before mounting up though, which should give him his skirmish bonus.
LachlarlanIII 02-26-07, 12:44 PM	Yes, but he still only gets one attack.
Howie23 02-26-07, 02:33 PM	right, the scout moved 20 ft before mounting up though, which should give him his skirmish bonus. You will often find that judges are opposed to permitting movement on foot in addition to movement mounted, or at least in such a way that uses more that a single set of actions. The reasoning is that the actions permitted in a round are limited by the amount of time in a round. The full round action of the mount to charge takes the full round. Adding additional activity to that essentially uses more time than is available in the round. Extreme example: A mounted ranger on a light horse is being chased by a mounted fighter on a light horse. The ranger's horse runs at maximum speed (a full round action), 250 ft w/run. At the end of that time, the ranger quick dismounts and runs at his full speed (a full round action), 120 ft. Both the ranger and his mount have each used a full round action, but they are sequential. The ranger has moved 370ft in 6 seconds, faster than the pursuing horse. David
Timlagor 02-27-07, 09:04 PM	IF the judge wants to stop you he'll just require you to take a move action to Handle your mount to charge :)
Howie23 02-27-07, 11:08 PM	IF the judge wants to stop you he'll just require you to take a move action to Handle your mount to charge :) Tim, I've merely come to the conclusion that the mounted rules are inconsistent piles of manure, particularly after customer service answered that question in a multitude of different ways, including the above. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, though. :) David
Britt 02-27-07, 11:28 PM	Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend.
copper_wyrmling 02-27-07, 11:53 PM	Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend. But you can make full attacks with a ranged weapon (or cast spells) while your mount moves or double-moves - that's explicit. So the "mount move = your move" isn't true for all purposes, you can still do move + fast mount + standard action + mount moves if the standard action is one that can be taken from the back of a moving horse. At least, that's my understanding.
Britt 02-27-07, 11:55 PM	But you can make full attacks with a ranged weapon (or cast spells) while your mount moves or double-moves - that's explicit. So the "mount move = your move" isn't true for all purposes, you can still do move + fast mount + standard action + mount moves if the standard action is one that can be taken from the back of a moving horse. At least, that's my understanding. Yes, if it explicitly tells you you can, but not otherwise.
Gwumph 02-28-07, 03:28 AM	I don't know Britt. I gotta disagree with you. The PHB explicitly says it uses it's actions to move, not yours. The rules only say you are not allowed to make more than a single melee attack if your mount moves more than 5ft. Your are allowed to make a full range attack, even if your mount moves double or quadruple speed. Ditto for spellcasting as long as the spell is a standard action or less. I would say if your mount moves double or less you are allowed to: - draw a potion and drink it - draw a alchemical weapon and throw it - any 2 move or move equvilent actions - a move/eq action and a standard action - a full round action (that does not include a charge, multiple attacks, a full ranged attack, or spellcasting "see special rules") What you would not be allowed to do: - a move then full attack action - a move then charge - a move then full round action The books mentions several points where a mounted character in conjuction with his mounts move action, the PC gets his full 2 actions. So a PC moves 20 feet {move action}, leaps onto the back of his horse (fast mount/free action) spurs the horse onwards with his knees (guide mount/free action), horse does a double move forward not a charge (horses 2 move actions) and PC swings a sword at the orc (standard action). Hey it works in the movies!!!:D Cheers Gwumph
Timlagor 02-28-07, 12:58 PM	Your mount's movement is considered your movement. If your mount makes a single move action, it sucks a move action off your actions. You can't make a full attack after your mount moves. If you move, then quick mount, then the mount makes a single move, you're done for the round, as that's two move actions. If you move, quick mount, and attack, the mount can't move, as you don't have a move action to spend. It does explicitly say that you can take a full ranged attack. That you didn't know that implies that you don't really know the relevant rules here and your comments (quoted) don't match well with what the rules do say. Moving before mounting is more problematic than if you spend the whole round mounted.
Britt 02-28-07, 01:01 PM	It does explicitly say that you can take a full ranged attack. That you didn't know that implies that you don't really know the relevant rules here and your comments (quoted) don't match well with what the rules do say. Who said I didn't read that or that I didn't know that rule? That is an explicit exception. If it were the norm, it wouldn't need to be stated. Sorry, in the future I'll be sure to explicitly list every single exception to a rule when I talk about it, so that every post I make is the length of the FAQ.
Timlagor 03-01-07, 09:27 AM	Yes, if it explicitly tells you you can, but not otherwise. I misunderstood this to mean that you weren't sure that it said you could. Sorry about that.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-01-07, 12:31 PM	Personally I don't think mounted combat and determining actions isn't as complicated as everyone is making it out to be. A round of actions is approximately 6 seconds. In those 6 seconds, a character can take any combination of standard and move actions available to them. In the example with the scout moving, quick mounting, then having the mount charge and attack, it's not valid because the PC has already used their move action, so that means the mount had to wait for the PC to move, so it wouldn't have time to charge by the time the PC mounted. The mount could take a move or standard action, and the PC would still have his standard action, but the PC wouldn't be able to take any action that required the mount to finish it's action first because the 6 seconds of their turn are consumed by moving to the mount and the mount then taking it's action. It requires a little though on a case by case basis, but it's pretty straightforward matter of timing. For instance, a PC could move to a mount, quick mount, have the mount move, and while the mount is moving drink a potion (assuming the potion was already in hand), because drinking the potion is not dependant on the mount finishing it's move. Drinking the potion and the mount moving are simultaneous actions all able to occur in the 6 second window of the round. This may not be completely RAW, but I think most people would agree it is a sensible interpretation...Another example of simultaneous mounted actions is spellcasting while your mount takes a double move, assuming you don't need your mount to finish moving in order to target your spell.
Britt 03-01-07, 01:55 PM	I misunderstood this to mean that you weren't sure that it said you could. Sorry about that. No worries.