Multipurpose Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Multipurpose Archer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 08:17 AM Half-Orc
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6

1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage
2: Ranger 1: Track
3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack
4: Fighter 1: PBS: Str 19
5: Fighter 2: Precise Shot
6: Ranger 3: Endurance, WF: Trident
7: Master Thrower 1: Quickdraw
8: Fighter 3: Str 20
9: Fighter 4: WS: Trident, Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing
10: Ranger 4
11: Ranger 5
12: Fighter 5: Improved Precise Shot(Gloves +6): Str 21
13: Ranger 6: Manyshot
14: Fighter 6: Brutal Throw
15: Master Thrower 2: Power Throw

This is the guy who serves multiple roles for a party - he can light infantry if necessary, using Power Attack/FullBAB/Str/Rage to cut things to shreds. He can use a Composite Longbow or Javelin very effectively at range, and tosses Tridents at short to set up Prone opponents for him to slam - Guided Shot can make this hilariously effective against multiple opponents at longer range if needed.
JamesMaissen
03-15-07, 08:43 AM Half-Orc
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6

1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage
2: Ranger 1: Track
3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack

I'm curious here what the skills break down is.. you've put points into INT but then you start with Barbarian over Ranger. The Extra Rage could come at 3rd with Power Attack at 1st.

Anyway just curious.

-James
Lupo
03-15-07, 09:21 AM Half-Orc
Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6

1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage
2: Ranger 1: Track
3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack
4: Fighter 1: PBS: Str 19
5: Fighter 2: Precise Shot
6: Ranger 3: Endurance, WF: Trident
7: Master Thrower 1: Quickdraw
8: Fighter 3: Str 20
9: Fighter 4: WS: Trident, Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing
10: Ranger 4
11: Ranger 5
12: Fighter 5: Improved Precise Shot(Gloves +6): Str 21
13: Ranger 6: Manyshot
14: Fighter 6: Brutal Throw
15: Master Thrower 2: Power Throw

This is the guy who serves multiple roles for a party - he can light infantry if necessary, using Power Attack/FullBAB/Str/Rage to cut things to shreds. He can use a Composite Longbow or Javelin very effectively at range, and tosses Tridents at short to set up Prone opponents for him to slam - Guided Shot can make this hilariously effective against multiple opponents at longer range if needed.

if you took ranger 6 for "many shot", just drop it, it doesn't work with thrown weapons.

in total i think you get your "power throw" way to late and with the overall low skill points you really should take the ranger at first to get as many as you can.

here is my master thrower:

A human ranger-fighter-barbarian-master thrower-pious templar of Vogan. This concept is built around the short spear, a weapon that has a reasonable range increment (20-ft) and is also electable for "Power Attack" - even for the somehow more powerful two-hand-wielded-weapon - an essential feat for almost every fighter type. The combination of the unique goodies from "master thrower" with the minor spellcasting powers and feats of a "pious templar" should create a quite versatile and efficient fighter.

str 16 (10) dex 14 (6) con 14 (6) int 8 (0) wis 14 (6) cha 8 (0)
[all stat boost to str]

1: ranger 1: track (b), favoured enemy (b), wild empathy (b), point blank shot (b), weapon focus [shortspear](1)
2: fighter 1: power attack (b)

Planned career:

3: barbarian 1: fast movement (b), rage 1/day (b), precise shot (3)
4: fighter 2: brutal throw (b)
5: ranger 2: rapid shot (b)

prerequisites for master thrower: BAB 5, sleight of hand 4 (cross class, consuming 8 skill points), point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus [thrown weapon]

6: master thrower 1: quick draw (b), thrown weapon trick [defensive throw] (b), true believer (6)

prerequisites for pious templar: BAB 5, knowledge [religion] 4 (cross class, consuming 8 skill points), true believer, weapon focus [deity’s weapon]

7: pious templar 1: mettle (b)
8: master thrower 2: evasion (b)
9: pious templar 2: smite 1/day (b), power throw (9)
10: pious templar 3: damage reduction 1/- (b), weapon specialization [deity’s weapon] (b)
11: master thrower 3: thrown weapon trick [two with one blow] (b)

from here on, I am just not sure, and it is some time to decide, so most probably:

12: master thrower 4: snatch arrows (b), far shot (12) [now with PHB II most probably "ranged weapon mastery (piercing)"]
13: master thrower 5: critical throw (b), thrown weapon trick [weak spot] (b)
14: pious templar 4: UNASSIGNED FEAT [now with PHB II most probably "melee weapon mastery (piercing)"]
15: pious templar 5: extra smite (15)

one can easily switch from short-spear to trident, for a one point more average damage while reducing the range.

pious templar can be switched for any other (prestige-)class, and if done wis can be reduced to 10 and one gets a spare feat and some skill points, might be the way for a character without the human bonus feat and skill point, but i think the goodies of pious templar are worth it.

ciao

martin m.
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 10:31 AM He's not a thrower, he's a tactical options light infantry who can hurt you at range in a variety of ways, but at the same time, he can mix it up close and personal if he has to do that. His primary weapon is a bow as that can be magicked and then do significant damage with every shot. Brutal Thrower/Power Throw is mainly for when he's likely to have someone capable of magicking shurikens for him - yes, he's not proficient, but with Ranged Weapon Mastery+30 Str+Brutal Throw means he might as well be - casts Guided Shot/Extend Spell with a Lesser Extend Spell Rod, then Rages, and hurls shuriken 150 feet without a range penalty for the next 2 rounds for 1d2+12+extras. It isn't amazing damage compared to that of a Trident for 1d8+14, but if we're fighting something with DR Magic and a long encounter distance, it helps.

Putting Ranger at 1st level doesn't particularly help with skill points - he needs the 8 Int so he can keep levelling Spot/Listen, but an extra 6 skill points doesn't make a huge difference unless I decide to retrain him or delay Ranger 2 past 3rd level.

On the other hand, the extra 2 hp do make a difference when he's fighting up close. And at APL 1-2, Extra Rage is worth a lot more than Power Attack.

Ranger 6 isn't just for Manyshot - it is also for the lack of an XP penalty with Fighter 6 and level 6 being a good save breakpoint.
Alpha_Nerd
03-15-07, 10:35 AM Ranger 5 and Fighter 6 won't have an exp penalty, and I'd rather have Master Thower 3.
Alpha_Nerd
03-15-07, 10:39 AM Also, on another completely different topic, Weapon Specialization: Trident does not qualify you for Ranged Weapon Mastery(I think). When I was planning out my Master Thrower I read over the thrown weapon entry many times to make sure I had it right. Pretty much what I figured out is that there are throwing weapons of both Melee and Ranged types. Being a thrown weapons doesn't superseed being Melee or Ranged, it's just a subtype. I think of it like Melee(thrown) and Ranged(thrown). So, in this case you would have to take Melee Weapon mastery since a Trident is a Melee(Thrown) weapon. Please correct me if I'm wrong as a search of the Erratas and FAQs led me to stick with the PHB wording, and that's how it's pretty clearly stated.
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 11:31 AM Also, on another completely different topic, Weapon Specialization: Trident does not qualify you for Ranged Weapon Mastery(I think). When I was planning out my Master Thrower I read over the thrown weapon entry many times to make sure I had it right. Pretty much what I figured out is that there are throwing weapons of both Melee and Ranged types. Being a thrown weapons doesn't superseed being Melee or Ranged, it's just a subtype. I think of it like Melee(thrown) and Ranged(thrown). So, in this case you would have to take Melee Weapon mastery since a Trident is a Melee(Thrown) weapon. Please correct me if I'm wrong as a search of the Erratas and FAQs led me to stick with the PHB wording, and that's how it's pretty clearly stated.

I think that's taking it a bit literally.

A Trident being thrown is a ranged weapon. When it is being used in melee, it isn't. I wouldn't let a melee weapon master gain +2 to hit/damage when throwing a melee weapon nor would I let a Ranged weapon master gain +2 to hit/damage when swinging a thrown weapon that can be used in melee.

It isn't a huge build difference if a DM thinks intent leads otherwise - makes me more of a light infantry, less of an archer.

I'd still much rather have Manyshot than Master Thrower 3. None of the abilities are that amazingly appealing to me compared to Manyshot. Again, bow = no DR problems, lots of thrown weapons = DR problems.
Alpha_Nerd
03-15-07, 11:51 AM I would not say a Trident being thrown is a Ranged weapon. You never change the type of weapon it is, just the kind of attack you make.

Throwing a Trident is making a Ranged attack with a Melee Weapon.

Stabbing with a Javelin is making a Melee attack with a Ranged Weapon.

You could take Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing and get +20 ft on a javelin, but I definately do not think you can take RWM: P for +20 ft on a Trident.

Does someone have a copy of the PHB in front of them? If so could you check the Point Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot feats for me and see if they say attack with a ranged weapon or ranged attack?
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 12:01 PM I would not say a Trident being thrown is a Ranged weapon. You never change the type of weapon it is, just the kind of attack you make.

Actually, it does:
Ranged attack: Any attack made at a distance with a ranged weapon, as opposed to a melee attack

So when you throw a trident, you're making a ranged attack - which means it is a ranged weapon when you do that. PBS and Precise Shot all use that language - I think a lot of dagger wielders would be surprised to not be allowed to use Precise Shot :) Of course, the penalty is only to people using Ranged Weapons - you could throw a dagger into a Grapple without penalty if you use the language in your way.
Alpha_Nerd
03-15-07, 12:08 PM Hmm, it seems contradictory though :( I mean, I'm glad it's a ranged weapon because then I can apply the extra 20ft to my Spears, but I guess I need both Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries to cover all my ground?
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 12:25 PM Hmm, it seems contradictory though :( I mean, I'm glad it's a ranged weapon because then I can apply the extra 20ft to my Spears, but I guess I need both Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries to cover all my ground?

Yup. Makes Ranged Weapon Mastery more useful and Melee Weapon Mastery less useful to a Thrower. Thanks for pointing that out, though. Being able to ask, "So do you mean I get no penalties for throwing a trident through soft cover, because it isn't a ranged weapon?" and similar questions should really knock down table variation.
Lupo
03-15-07, 12:50 PM He's not a thrower, he's a tactical options light infantry who can hurt you at range in a variety of ways, but at the same time, he can mix it up close and personal if he has to do that. His primary weapon is a bow as that can be magicked and then do significant damage with every shot. Brutal Thrower/Power Throw is mainly for when he's likely to have someone capable of magicking shurikens for him - yes, he's not proficient, but with Ranged Weapon Mastery+30 Str+Brutal Throw means he might as well be - casts Guided Shot/Extend Spell with a Lesser Extend Spell Rod, then Rages, and hurls shuriken 150 feet without a range penalty for the next 2 rounds for 1d2+12+extras. It isn't amazing damage compared to that of a Trident for 1d8+14, but if we're fighting something with DR Magic and a long encounter distance, it helps.

Putting Ranger at 1st level doesn't particularly help with skill points - he needs the 8 Int so he can keep levelling Spot/Listen, but an extra 6 skill points doesn't make a huge difference unless I decide to retrain him or delay Ranger 2 past 3rd level.

On the other hand, the extra 2 hp do make a difference when he's fighting up close. And at APL 1-2, Extra Rage is worth a lot more than Power Attack.

Ranger 6 isn't just for Manyshot - it is also for the lack of an XP penalty with Fighter 6 and level 6 being a good save breakpoint.

if the primary weapon is a bow, i would concentrate on it and dump the whole throw weapon thingies apart from carrying some tridents and throwing them when needed.

an archer has the primary role of doing ranged damage round after round, at least hitting twice (APL 4 to 8), three times (APL 10 and 12) or four times (APL 14 and above).

and a main concern of an archer is to pump up damage as high as possible to get through the various DR and like stuff.

it doesn't hurt to have some melee capacity but that should not dilute the archer role to much.

you are putting at least three feats to trident that might go into longbow.

ciao

martin m.
zoinks69
03-15-07, 01:26 PM Nothing particularly bad about the build, though I think I'd echo the other comments about concentrating on one thing (archery, for example) and doing it well. Note that you can have a very similar Wood Elf (same stats but 8 Cha) or bump Dex to 16 with little effort, depending exactly what you want to do. The advantage of course is that it allows for Wildrunner PrC.

Of course I say that because I have that exact build (currently level 2). The concept is to have an archer that can, for the most part, overcome the typical limitations of archers -- DR, no melee. With Rage (possibly Reckless Rage) and Scream, you've got good bonuses to both ranged and melee that are useful for entire combats. With the Strength bow bonus limitations gone, you can be dishing the kind of damage that makes DR 5 and DR 10 (hell, 15 if you start throwing on good enhancements) cry.
Mommy was an Orc
03-15-07, 02:02 PM an archer has the primary role of doing ranged damage round after round, at least hitting twice (APL 4 to 8), three times (APL 10 and 12) or four times (APL 14 and above).

and a main concern of an archer is to pump up damage as high as possible to get through the various DR and like stuff.

And exactly why isn't he doing that? He's fullBAB, he's got +12 damage per arrow from RWM and Strength, his Dex will be 20, and he has effectively no penalty from doing Rapid Shot. He also gets +4 damage against elementals and +2 damage against constructs. Oh, and yeah, he can ignore range/cover/concealment penalties for up to 2 rounds at the start of a combat unless it is full cover/concealment.

Sure, he's not as tweaked in that direction as he could be, but considering most archers right now do around +6 damage from Str+WS and do pretty well, it isn't as if he's going to suck at it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 08:17 AM	Half-Orc Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6 1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage 2: Ranger 1: Track 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack 4: Fighter 1: PBS: Str 19 5: Fighter 2: Precise Shot 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, WF: Trident 7: Master Thrower 1: Quickdraw 8: Fighter 3: Str 20 9: Fighter 4: WS: Trident, Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing 10: Ranger 4 11: Ranger 5 12: Fighter 5: Improved Precise Shot(Gloves +6): Str 21 13: Ranger 6: Manyshot 14: Fighter 6: Brutal Throw 15: Master Thrower 2: Power Throw This is the guy who serves multiple roles for a party - he can light infantry if necessary, using Power Attack/FullBAB/Str/Rage to cut things to shreds. He can use a Composite Longbow or Javelin very effectively at range, and tosses Tridents at short to set up Prone opponents for him to slam - Guided Shot can make this hilariously effective against multiple opponents at longer range if needed.
JamesMaissen 03-15-07, 08:43 AM	Half-Orc Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6 1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage 2: Ranger 1: Track 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack I'm curious here what the skills break down is.. you've put points into INT but then you start with Barbarian over Ranger. The Extra Rage could come at 3rd with Power Attack at 1st. Anyway just curious. -James
Lupo 03-15-07, 09:21 AM	Half-Orc Str 18, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 6 1: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage 2: Ranger 1: Track 3: Ranger 2: Rapid Shot, Power Attack 4: Fighter 1: PBS: Str 19 5: Fighter 2: Precise Shot 6: Ranger 3: Endurance, WF: Trident 7: Master Thrower 1: Quickdraw 8: Fighter 3: Str 20 9: Fighter 4: WS: Trident, Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing 10: Ranger 4 11: Ranger 5 12: Fighter 5: Improved Precise Shot(Gloves +6): Str 21 13: Ranger 6: Manyshot 14: Fighter 6: Brutal Throw 15: Master Thrower 2: Power Throw This is the guy who serves multiple roles for a party - he can light infantry if necessary, using Power Attack/FullBAB/Str/Rage to cut things to shreds. He can use a Composite Longbow or Javelin very effectively at range, and tosses Tridents at short to set up Prone opponents for him to slam - Guided Shot can make this hilariously effective against multiple opponents at longer range if needed. if you took ranger 6 for "many shot", just drop it, it doesn't work with thrown weapons. in total i think you get your "power throw" way to late and with the overall low skill points you really should take the ranger at first to get as many as you can. here is my master thrower: A human ranger-fighter-barbarian-master thrower-pious templar of Vogan. This concept is built around the short spear, a weapon that has a reasonable range increment (20-ft) and is also electable for "Power Attack" - even for the somehow more powerful two-hand-wielded-weapon - an essential feat for almost every fighter type. The combination of the unique goodies from "master thrower" with the minor spellcasting powers and feats of a "pious templar" should create a quite versatile and efficient fighter. str 16 (10) dex 14 (6) con 14 (6) int 8 (0) wis 14 (6) cha 8 (0) [all stat boost to str] 1: ranger 1: track (b), favoured enemy (b), wild empathy (b), point blank shot (b), weapon focus [shortspear](1) 2: fighter 1: power attack (b) Planned career: 3: barbarian 1: fast movement (b), rage 1/day (b), precise shot (3) 4: fighter 2: brutal throw (b) 5: ranger 2: rapid shot (b) prerequisites for master thrower: BAB 5, sleight of hand 4 (cross class, consuming 8 skill points), point blank shot, precise shot, weapon focus [thrown weapon] 6: master thrower 1: quick draw (b), thrown weapon trick [defensive throw] (b), true believer (6) prerequisites for pious templar: BAB 5, knowledge [religion] 4 (cross class, consuming 8 skill points), true believer, weapon focus [deity’s weapon] 7: pious templar 1: mettle (b) 8: master thrower 2: evasion (b) 9: pious templar 2: smite 1/day (b), power throw (9) 10: pious templar 3: damage reduction 1/- (b), weapon specialization [deity’s weapon] (b) 11: master thrower 3: thrown weapon trick [two with one blow] (b) from here on, I am just not sure, and it is some time to decide, so most probably: 12: master thrower 4: snatch arrows (b), far shot (12) [now with PHB II most probably "ranged weapon mastery (piercing)"] 13: master thrower 5: critical throw (b), thrown weapon trick [weak spot] (b) 14: pious templar 4: UNASSIGNED FEAT [now with PHB II most probably "melee weapon mastery (piercing)"] 15: pious templar 5: extra smite (15) one can easily switch from short-spear to trident, for a one point more average damage while reducing the range. pious templar can be switched for any other (prestige-)class, and if done wis can be reduced to 10 and one gets a spare feat and some skill points, might be the way for a character without the human bonus feat and skill point, but i think the goodies of pious templar are worth it. ciao martin m.
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 10:31 AM	He's not a thrower, he's a tactical options light infantry who can hurt you at range in a variety of ways, but at the same time, he can mix it up close and personal if he has to do that. His primary weapon is a bow as that can be magicked and then do significant damage with every shot. Brutal Thrower/Power Throw is mainly for when he's likely to have someone capable of magicking shurikens for him - yes, he's not proficient, but with Ranged Weapon Mastery+30 Str+Brutal Throw means he might as well be - casts Guided Shot/Extend Spell with a Lesser Extend Spell Rod, then Rages, and hurls shuriken 150 feet without a range penalty for the next 2 rounds for 1d2+12+extras. It isn't amazing damage compared to that of a Trident for 1d8+14, but if we're fighting something with DR Magic and a long encounter distance, it helps. Putting Ranger at 1st level doesn't particularly help with skill points - he needs the 8 Int so he can keep levelling Spot/Listen, but an extra 6 skill points doesn't make a huge difference unless I decide to retrain him or delay Ranger 2 past 3rd level. On the other hand, the extra 2 hp do make a difference when he's fighting up close. And at APL 1-2, Extra Rage is worth a lot more than Power Attack. Ranger 6 isn't just for Manyshot - it is also for the lack of an XP penalty with Fighter 6 and level 6 being a good save breakpoint.
Alpha_Nerd 03-15-07, 10:35 AM	Ranger 5 and Fighter 6 won't have an exp penalty, and I'd rather have Master Thower 3.
Alpha_Nerd 03-15-07, 10:39 AM	Also, on another completely different topic, Weapon Specialization: Trident does not qualify you for Ranged Weapon Mastery(I think). When I was planning out my Master Thrower I read over the thrown weapon entry many times to make sure I had it right. Pretty much what I figured out is that there are throwing weapons of both Melee and Ranged types. Being a thrown weapons doesn't superseed being Melee or Ranged, it's just a subtype. I think of it like Melee(thrown) and Ranged(thrown). So, in this case you would have to take Melee Weapon mastery since a Trident is a Melee(Thrown) weapon. Please correct me if I'm wrong as a search of the Erratas and FAQs led me to stick with the PHB wording, and that's how it's pretty clearly stated.
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 11:31 AM	Also, on another completely different topic, Weapon Specialization: Trident does not qualify you for Ranged Weapon Mastery(I think). When I was planning out my Master Thrower I read over the thrown weapon entry many times to make sure I had it right. Pretty much what I figured out is that there are throwing weapons of both Melee and Ranged types. Being a thrown weapons doesn't superseed being Melee or Ranged, it's just a subtype. I think of it like Melee(thrown) and Ranged(thrown). So, in this case you would have to take Melee Weapon mastery since a Trident is a Melee(Thrown) weapon. Please correct me if I'm wrong as a search of the Erratas and FAQs led me to stick with the PHB wording, and that's how it's pretty clearly stated. I think that's taking it a bit literally. A Trident being thrown is a ranged weapon. When it is being used in melee, it isn't. I wouldn't let a melee weapon master gain +2 to hit/damage when throwing a melee weapon nor would I let a Ranged weapon master gain +2 to hit/damage when swinging a thrown weapon that can be used in melee. It isn't a huge build difference if a DM thinks intent leads otherwise - makes me more of a light infantry, less of an archer. I'd still much rather have Manyshot than Master Thrower 3. None of the abilities are that amazingly appealing to me compared to Manyshot. Again, bow = no DR problems, lots of thrown weapons = DR problems.
Alpha_Nerd 03-15-07, 11:51 AM	I would not say a Trident being thrown is a Ranged weapon. You never change the type of weapon it is, just the kind of attack you make. Throwing a Trident is making a Ranged attack with a Melee Weapon. Stabbing with a Javelin is making a Melee attack with a Ranged Weapon. You could take Ranged Weapon Mastery: Piercing and get +20 ft on a javelin, but I definately do not think you can take RWM: P for +20 ft on a Trident. Does someone have a copy of the PHB in front of them? If so could you check the Point Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot feats for me and see if they say attack with a ranged weapon or ranged attack?
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 12:01 PM	I would not say a Trident being thrown is a Ranged weapon. You never change the type of weapon it is, just the kind of attack you make. Actually, it does: Ranged attack: Any attack made at a distance with a ranged weapon, as opposed to a melee attack So when you throw a trident, you're making a ranged attack - which means it is a ranged weapon when you do that. PBS and Precise Shot all use that language - I think a lot of dagger wielders would be surprised to not be allowed to use Precise Shot :) Of course, the penalty is only to people using Ranged Weapons - you could throw a dagger into a Grapple without penalty if you use the language in your way.
Alpha_Nerd 03-15-07, 12:08 PM	Hmm, it seems contradictory though :( I mean, I'm glad it's a ranged weapon because then I can apply the extra 20ft to my Spears, but I guess I need both Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries to cover all my ground?
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 12:25 PM	Hmm, it seems contradictory though :( I mean, I'm glad it's a ranged weapon because then I can apply the extra 20ft to my Spears, but I guess I need both Ranged and Melee Weapon Masteries to cover all my ground? Yup. Makes Ranged Weapon Mastery more useful and Melee Weapon Mastery less useful to a Thrower. Thanks for pointing that out, though. Being able to ask, "So do you mean I get no penalties for throwing a trident through soft cover, because it isn't a ranged weapon?" and similar questions should really knock down table variation.
Lupo 03-15-07, 12:50 PM	He's not a thrower, he's a tactical options light infantry who can hurt you at range in a variety of ways, but at the same time, he can mix it up close and personal if he has to do that. His primary weapon is a bow as that can be magicked and then do significant damage with every shot. Brutal Thrower/Power Throw is mainly for when he's likely to have someone capable of magicking shurikens for him - yes, he's not proficient, but with Ranged Weapon Mastery+30 Str+Brutal Throw means he might as well be - casts Guided Shot/Extend Spell with a Lesser Extend Spell Rod, then Rages, and hurls shuriken 150 feet without a range penalty for the next 2 rounds for 1d2+12+extras. It isn't amazing damage compared to that of a Trident for 1d8+14, but if we're fighting something with DR Magic and a long encounter distance, it helps. Putting Ranger at 1st level doesn't particularly help with skill points - he needs the 8 Int so he can keep levelling Spot/Listen, but an extra 6 skill points doesn't make a huge difference unless I decide to retrain him or delay Ranger 2 past 3rd level. On the other hand, the extra 2 hp do make a difference when he's fighting up close. And at APL 1-2, Extra Rage is worth a lot more than Power Attack. Ranger 6 isn't just for Manyshot - it is also for the lack of an XP penalty with Fighter 6 and level 6 being a good save breakpoint. if the primary weapon is a bow, i would concentrate on it and dump the whole throw weapon thingies apart from carrying some tridents and throwing them when needed. an archer has the primary role of doing ranged damage round after round, at least hitting twice (APL 4 to 8), three times (APL 10 and 12) or four times (APL 14 and above). and a main concern of an archer is to pump up damage as high as possible to get through the various DR and like stuff. it doesn't hurt to have some melee capacity but that should not dilute the archer role to much. you are putting at least three feats to trident that might go into longbow. ciao martin m.
zoinks69 03-15-07, 01:26 PM	Nothing particularly bad about the build, though I think I'd echo the other comments about concentrating on one thing (archery, for example) and doing it well. Note that you can have a very similar Wood Elf (same stats but 8 Cha) or bump Dex to 16 with little effort, depending exactly what you want to do. The advantage of course is that it allows for Wildrunner PrC. Of course I say that because I have that exact build (currently level 2). The concept is to have an archer that can, for the most part, overcome the typical limitations of archers -- DR, no melee. With Rage (possibly Reckless Rage) and Scream, you've got good bonuses to both ranged and melee that are useful for entire combats. With the Strength bow bonus limitations gone, you can be dishing the kind of damage that makes DR 5 and DR 10 (hell, 15 if you start throwing on good enhancements) cry.
Mommy was an Orc 03-15-07, 02:02 PM	an archer has the primary role of doing ranged damage round after round, at least hitting twice (APL 4 to 8), three times (APL 10 and 12) or four times (APL 14 and above). and a main concern of an archer is to pump up damage as high as possible to get through the various DR and like stuff. And exactly why isn't he doing that? He's fullBAB, he's got +12 damage per arrow from RWM and Strength, his Dex will be 20, and he has effectively no penalty from doing Rapid Shot. He also gets +4 damage against elementals and +2 damage against constructs. Oh, and yeah, he can ignore range/cover/concealment penalties for up to 2 rounds at the start of a combat unless it is full cover/concealment. Sure, he's not as tweaked in that direction as he could be, but considering most archers right now do around +6 damage from Str+WS and do pretty well, it isn't as if he's going to suck at it.