Post/Author/DateTime	Post
AffableDoomwalker 03-13-07, 10:54 PM	...need your assistance! Please read over this, and feel free to critique, comment, and advise on the setup. The Build: Archerogue CG Human Rogue8/Fighter6/Shadowdancer2 Ability Scores: Strength: 8 Dexterity: 16 Constitution: 12 Intelligence: 16 Wisdom: 10 Charisma: 10 Starting Stuff: Hit Points: 1d6+1 = 7 Skill Points: (8+3)x4+4 = 48 Feats: 2 Gold: 200 Languages Known: Common, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome Class Progression 1-16: R, F, R, F, F, F, SD, SD, F, F, R, R, R, R, R, R BAB 1-16: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 6/1, 7/2, 8/3, 9/4, 10/5, 10/5, 11/6/1, 12/7/2, 12/7/2 Feat & Ability Progression 1-16: 1(R): Dodge, Mobility 2(F): Weapon Focus (Shortbow) 3(R): Point Blank Shot 4(F): Precise Shot, +1 Dexterity 6(F): Weapon Specialization (Shortbow), Combat Reflexes 8(SD): +1 Dexterity 9(F): Rapid Shot 10(F): Improved Critical (Shortbow) 12(R): Manyshot, +1 Dexterity 15(R): Improved Precise Shot 16(R): +1 Dexterity Skill Ranks: Balance:4, Climb:2, Disable Device:4, Escape Artist:4, Hide:4, Jump:2, Listen:2, Move Silently:4, Open Lock:4, Perform (Dance):2, Search:4, Sleight of Hand:4, Spot:2, Swim:2, Tumble:4, Use Rope:2 The Thoughts Behind It: I was aiming for a generalist skill-monkey, a workable ranged combatant, and a strong sneak attacker for support action. I'm not so sure if I want 6 levels of Fighter or 4; the 11 feats (in total), 14 HP, 12 SP - V.S. - 10 (feats in total), 10 HP, 24 Skill Points... well, its a hard decision for me. One more feat or a Skill Point hit? Different feat selection? I think what I have here is solid enough, but I'd love to see some different thoughts/ideas concerning feats. Maybe a different weapon? I like the idea of a shortbow, but I'm open to other ranged weapons (Bear in mind: I don't have access to PHB2 and it's wondrous Crossbow related feats). I realize the build is useless against Undead, Crit-Immune, and Unflankable enemies. I understand and accept that. What do you think?
Japangirl 03-14-07, 02:26 AM	Beware of flanking, or actually being in combat at all, with 12 Con. Honestly, I'd take two points out of Charisma and stick them into Con to get the 14, but that's just me. Drop Int to 14 and put those 4 points somewhere else. Strength is a good place, a 12 will let a composite longbow (+1 Str) and you don't have to worry about carrying capacity or shadows nearly as much. Or you could make Str 9 and get a 17 Dex, bumped three times. With a 17 Dex, you need use a Crossbow and get Rapid Reload ---> Crossbow Sniper to add 1/2 Dex to damage. Shadow Dancer gives you hide in plain sight, so you can snipe to your heart's content. Drop Weapon Focus and Weapon Spec, the Crossbow Sniper feat gives you a lot more damage. Crossbow Sniper also extends your sneak attack range from 30 to 60 feet, a huge improvement. Far Shot is pointless, you will never need it. This build that you have is a skills rogue only, for the most part. You're not very good in combat, you're doing like one arrow a round. It's not good. If you want to be a skills rogue, drop the fighter levels. If you want to be a ranged combat rogue, see the build below for a stronger combatant. I'd rebuild into Rog 10/Ftr 4/SD 1, probably. STR 9 DEX 17 CON 14 INT 14 WIS 10 CHA 8. Then you get another 1d6 sneak attack, still get HiPS, get a special rogue ability for being 10, and you only give up darkvision. Still use the Crossbow Sniper build above.
Timlagor 03-14-07, 08:35 PM	You definitely want more Strength and a Composite Longbow. Unless there is a very strong reason you should spend 6 points on Constitution. If you had PHB2 you'd want Weapon Mastery. Drop Dodge and Mobility: You have tumble. This will let you take your PB+PBS at 1st and be vaguely competent. You'll also get rapid shot much earlier (3rd) . Your Second level Feat should be Improved Initiative. You can also drop Far Shot. Consider Woodland Archer and look seriously at reducing Fighter to 4 levels (they really kill your skills)
Japangirl 03-14-07, 09:31 PM	Dodge and Mobility for Shadowdancer if he wants to do that. I still think Crossbow Sniper is much much better than a composite longbow.
AffableDoomwalker 03-15-07, 01:16 AM	Alrighty, I've made an edit concerning my stats, fixed a few errors, and added my total BAB from 1-16. Again - I do not have access to the PHB2 (I won't be able to get one until about a week from yesterday, and the LG game I'm attending is 3 days off), so if using a crossbow to full effect requires Crossbow Sniper I'm out on crossbows. Where I stand right now, with my current build, I'd get 3 good shots in (2 nearly guaranteed, 2 without near-guaranteed success but still at a "plus" to hit) a round at level 16, plus my rapid shot, which at level 16 with 20 DEX amounts to 15/10/5/3, before any magical gear/weapon specialization comes into play. I'm currently crunching numbers on a build with 4 levels in fighter, a higher strength, and a higher constitution, but the ultimate goal is to be an effective out of combat agent, and an excellent ambush/support combat character.
AffableDoomwalker 03-16-07, 04:20 AM	Not quite 4 levels in Fighter, but it seems a bit more adjusted - and re-focuses the character on skills primarily/combat secondarily. Abilities STR:10, DEX:16, CON:12, INT:16, WIS:10, CHA:8 Level/Feat/Ability Progression 1: Rogue 1: Dodge, Mobility 2: Fighter 1: Weapon Focus - Shortbow 3: Rogue 2: Alertness* 4: Fighter 2: Dexterity 17, Combat Reflexes 5: Shadow Dancer 1: 6: Shadow Dancer 2: Point Blank Shot 7: Fighter 3: 8: Fighter 4: Dexterity 18, Weapon Specialization - Shortbow 9: Rogue 3: Precise Shot 10: Fighter 5: 11: Rogue 4: 12: Fighter 6: Dexterity 19, Rapid Shot, Weapon Finesse* 13: Rogue 5: 14: Rogue 6: 15: Rogue 7: Improved Precise Shot 16: Rogue 8: Dexterity 20 *=Negotiable feats, no positive/negative impact Does this seem more focused/specialized?
Timlagor 03-16-07, 08:28 AM	I see no justification at all for using a Shortbow over a Longbow. If you're an Archer then you should take the key Archery Feats first. 1) PBS+PS 2) Rapid Shot (Combat REflexes if required for SD) 3) WFocus (Dodge is you need MObility for Shadow Dancer) 4) Dodge (I wouldn't but it sort of make sense ..ahh needed for Shadow D?) 8) Weapon Spec 9) ManyShot? Weapon Mastery? Woodland Archer? I assume Shadow Dancer is giving you HiPS? (not convinced it's a good idea anyway) I wouldnt' take Alertness. SF(Hide) might be worthwhile if you want a skill Feat.
Mommy was an Orc 03-16-07, 09:53 AM	Ouch... I think you need to look at what you're doing in combat. You're sacrificing Rogue skill progression/sneak damage for your Fighter levels, yet you're not getting a whole lot for it. At 8th level, as an example, when you're attacking from surprise, you do 1d6+2+1d6 damage when a Rogue 8 would be doing 1d6+4d6. Also, you can't possibly enter Shadow Dancer until 8th level - you need 10 ranks in Hide. If I *had* to enter Shadow Dancer and be an archer, I'd do the build this way: 1: Rogue 1: PBS, Precise Shot 2: Fighter 1: Rapid Shot 3: Swashbuckler 1: Dodge, Weapon Finesse 4: Swashbuckler 2 5: Rogue 2 6: Fighter 2: Combat Reflexes, Mobility 7: Rogue 3 8: Shadow Dancer 1 9: Shadow Dancer 2: Daring Outlaw 10: Swashbuckler 3 11: Rogue 4 12: Rogue 5: Woodland Archer 13: Rogue 6 14: Rogue 7 15: Rogue 8: Improved Precise Shot Okay, so what's going on here...I've given you the feats necessary in the order which is necessary to be effective - you'll fire twice a round starting at 2nd - if you get concealment, you'll do 1d8(composite longbow)+1d6 for two shots. That's not bad. The Swashbuckler levels are to take advantage of all those melee feats you're taking - it gets you Weapon Finesse quickly and at 10th, you're actually a reasonable threat in melee against a sneakable opponent. I went with what you were saying about not caring about opponents that you can't sneak - weapon specialization doesn't really help you anywhere near as ensuring that you hit and hit often. With Daring Outlaw, you end up with +6d6 Sneak Attack and the Grace/Dodge of a 11th level Swashbuckler.