Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Loignar 01-12-07, 04:59 PM	I am going to try building a Human Mystic Theurge, I am thinking 3 cleric/3 sorcerer/Mystic Theurge??/???? Start stats I was thinking s-10/d-10/c-10/i-10/w-16/c-16 1 cleric combat cast/metamagic-maximize 2 cleric 3 cleric metamagic-still (will likely use some armor) 4 sorc 5 sorc 6 sorc craft wonderous 7 sorc 8 Mystic Theurge ????????? Domains will be war and travel Any suggestions?
Japangirl 01-12-07, 05:25 PM	Well, for one thing, you would have to do 4 sorceror to get 2nd level arcane spells. Why Combat Casting? As a feat, it's really not very impressive. You will still get to auto-make concentration checks, just not quite as early, and feats are very valuable. I'd look at another metamagic feat or just something else. Scribe Scroll, maybe? Why the War domain? Isn't this mostly a casting character? Are you really planning on going up and hitting things? Get more than a 10 Con. 10 Con is going to kill you, especially with mostly d4 HD. Especially if you plan on being near the front at all (as War domain suggests) you need a 14 Con minimum. You could get away with a 12 as an elf. Maybe. If you drop both Cha and Wis to 15, you could get the 14 Con. Or drop Str to 8 and only one mental stat to 15. Or pick which of cleric/sorc is going to be your main saves guy (ie do you cast offensively from the Sorc side or the Cleric side) and drop the other one to 14. If you want to cast fireballs a lot, drop Wis to 14. If you want to kill undead with cure spells or drop flamestrikes and use your sorceror spells for utility, drop Cha to 14 instead.
Lupo 01-12-07, 05:35 PM	I am going to try building a Human Mystic Theurge, I am thinking 3 cleric/3 sorcerer/Mystic Theurge??/???? Start stats I was thinking s-10/d-10/c-10/i-10/w-16/c-16 1 cleric combat cast/metamagic-maximize 2 cleric 3 cleric metamagic-still (will likely use some armor) 4 sorc 5 sorc 6 sorc craft wonderous 7 Mystic Theurge ????????? Domains will be war and travel Any suggestions? mystic theurge is not a good combination with anyone who wants to run around in armor. your strength also prohibits lots of armor. :rolleyes: while travel is always a solid choice, war is a domain mainly for frontliner clerics (and archers). :) IF divine matamagic is still around after the new LGCS a MT with dmm [quicken] might be an option to get off both types of spells in one round (at least once per day). ;) the combat casting gives you not much more than a solid con 14 would give, actually less, as you WANT to have good fort saves. :rolleyes: ciao martin m. ps: for me, mystic theurge is in deed one of the weakest prestige classes around. you are way behind the power curve of highest spell slots, and have a serious HP problem. you are fine with buff spells, but that does not make up for later access to higher spells, especially not in LG.
Loignar 01-12-07, 05:37 PM	Thanks for the advise The domains are a result of RP more than anything. This character will be another member of a family of characters all of whom follow Kelanen. On the abilities, I think I will change them to s-10/d-10/con-14/i-10/w-15/ch-15 On combat-casting, I will be casting defensively 90% of the time and I always appreciated the +4 when it came to concentration checks agianst higher damage, and othe major distractions. On the other hand it would be nice to add a quicken feat-I'll have to think on that some more.
Japangirl 01-12-07, 06:15 PM	Something else. If you are willing to have a really really late game build, you may wish to consider a Warmage/Favored Soul Mystic Theurge. You do have to take four of each, but you can wear light armor, get lots of blastiness, and can focus almost exclusively on Charisma. Your warmage spells are your offensive ones, so a lower Wis score doesn't hurt any because those are the healing/buffing/utility spells. If you want medium armor/mithril full plate, take Battle Caster as a feat at some point. Stats would be Str:10 Dex:10 Con:14 Int:14 Wis:10 Cha:16 or something along those lines. Possibly drop two points of Int and pick up two more Dex or Str or Wis. This is not a terribly powerful character, BTW. Just a possibility for a fun one who does have both blasting and healing. Maximise is still a good metamagic feat, and you can drop Still Spell since you don't have the arcane spell failure chance anymore and pick up either Practiced Spellcaster or something like Empower or Sculpt Spell or something.
Lupo 01-12-07, 06:19 PM	Thanks for the advise The domains are a result of RP more than anything. This character will be another member of a family of characters all of whom follow Kelanen. On the abilities, I think I will change them to s-10/d-10/con-14/i-10/w-15/ch-15 On combat-casting, I will be casting defensively 90% of the time and I always appreciated the +4 when it came to concentration checks agianst higher damage, and othe major distractions. On the other hand it would be nice to add a quicken feat-I'll have to think on that some more. from the SRD: COMBAT CASTING [GENERAL] Benefit: You get a +4 bonus on Concentration checks made to cast a spell or use a spell-like ability while on the defensive or while you are grappling or pinned. "combat casting" ONLY works while casting defensively or while being grappled/pinned (something you do not should encounter to often with the travel domain). it doesn't let you add the +4 on concentration checks due to damage taken while casting or due to a readied attack. :( you are far better off with "skill focus [concentration]" if you really want to spend a precious feat on such a thing ;) ciao martin m.
Mommy was an Orc 01-12-07, 07:09 PM	"combat casting" ONLY works while casting defensively or while being grappled/pinned (something you do not should encounter to often with the travel domain). Travel Domain doesn't prevent you from being grappled or pinned - only works vs magic.
Jay_Ibero_911 01-12-07, 10:01 PM	Could do cleric/wizard, specialized conjurer and summoner domain...divine metamagic rapid...sure it would only work on your cleric summons, but you would have oodles of summons available...even if they are low level...
Morgen 01-13-07, 04:35 AM	Well you've got a number of options available to you for how to do this. Mystic Thurges aren’t entirely weak and useless like most people say. They are in no way able to keep up with anything like a straight wizard or cleric obviously, but if your looking to play a support character whose good at buffing the party nothing is really going to make people appreciate someone who can haste/bless/prayer/etc the party as much as possible. With the application of feats like Practiced Spellcaster or Divine Spellpower your cleric buffs can be just as good as anyone else’s, you just aren’t going to be dropping holy words, casting heal or throwing out massive amounts of damage. No matter how many spells you can cast, it's hard to cast more then one a round all the time. Cleric/Wizard is probably the fastest and hardest way to get into Mystic Thruge. It's easy to enter but it's harder on your stats because you need both a high int and a high wis. That will give you skill points and a really good will save of course, but if you want to go meleeing you'll be short points for that kind of tactic. Favored Soul/Warmage would work well if you want to keep some melee potential. You'd get to keep some of your armor use, a shield and be able to have some decent attack spells while keeping your stats up reasonably well since the only one you need is Charisma. It all works nicely so long as you don't mind not taking cleric spells that require saves or having a ton of extra edge damage. Your stats for combat should look something like a Paladin’s, and you have the advantage of having spells like Accuracy and True strike on the Warmage spell list so hitting things won't be impossible. This practically begs to be made into an archer build. Point blank and Precise Shot working well with your ranged touch spells. Plenty of buffing spells you could get for your bow like Sonic Weapon or Flame Arrow as well as longer lasting Greater Magic Weapon and Blessed Aim. Quite nasty now that I think about it, though you’d probably have to pick up Well Read from the Dragon Magazine Greyhawk feats so you can get your 8 ranks of Knowledge Religion. A Sueloise human or a Gray Elf get you access to that and honestly wouldn’t be a bad choice for an archer. I think I’m just wondering into an idea for a character though, my apologies. Thurges are hard; they need a lot of work and a lot of love. You shouldn’t have a bad time with things if you play down a lot however. That’s the beauty of LG. You might only have the spell casting abilities of a 3rd level wizard and cleric at 6th level, but if you’re playing down to APL 4 then who really cares? Your practically filling two slots at the table all at once. DOnt' forget to look at the other divine/arcane spell classes. Arcane Herophant can be powerful but might not fit the theme of your idea, while Geomancer from the Complete Divine offers some very interesting options with spell versatility. There is always the Fochlucan Lyrist too, don't forget that rediculious 10th leve mininmum class. Cleric/Druid/Wizard/Bard/Rogue/Headache thing.
Mommy was an Orc 01-13-07, 10:13 AM	Mystic Thurges aren’t entirely weak and useless like most people say. Thurges are hard; they need a lot of work and a lot of love. You shouldn’t have a bad time with things if you play down a lot however. That’s the beauty of LG. You might only have the spell casting abilities of a 3rd level wizard and cleric at 6th level, but if you’re playing down to APL 4 then who really cares? A character who has to play down a lot is the definition of a weak build. Look, sure, it is extremely beneficial to have someone be able to be the utility caster of the party. They're not going to be useless if they fill that role. That doesn't actually make them good at that role. A character who is good at that role should be able to routinely play up 1, maybe even 2 if necessary.
Loignar 01-13-07, 11:00 AM	I guess I really just liked the idea of the Theuge enough to have over looked the practicality. I like playing support characters sometimes and this seemed like a perfect support build, but in reality I am begining to see the inherent flaws. I think it would be average for levels 1-3/4, weak for levels 4/5-9, and be very versatile (but not powerful) for the last levels with the Div S.P. and Prac S.C. feats. That is figuring the character to be a buffing/healing support character.
trollbill 01-13-07, 11:20 AM	A character who has to play down a lot is the definition of a weak build. Look, sure, it is extremely beneficial to have someone be able to be the utility caster of the party. They're not going to be useless if they fill that role. That doesn't actually make them good at that role. A character who is good at that role should be able to routinely play up 1, maybe even 2 if necessary. I personally find support characters (especially buffers) to be the easiest to play up with even if they are weak themselves. They have the greatest ability to be useful as even high level characters don't mind being hit by buff spells before going into combat and the buff spells almost always help them even if we are talking a 1st-level casting a buff spell on a 15th-level. The added strength to your party members both makes it easier for them to protect you, and have a greater desire to do so. I recently played a APL 10 mod with my 6th-level sorcerer. My spells are mostly buff and battlefield control type. Absolutley none of the 12th- and 14th-levels I played with thought my character was a non-contributing 5th wheel. If someone told me I would have to create a character that had to play at least 4 APLs above his level, I would create a buffer, and a Mystic Theurge can get quite a nice range of buffing spells. The big thing is you probably don't want to play in 4 member parties very often...which makes me think the Leadership feat might be a good idea.
Mommy was an Orc 01-13-07, 11:26 AM	I guess I really just liked the idea of the Theuge enough to have over looked the practicality. I like playing support characters sometimes and this seemed like a perfect support build, but in reality I am begining to see the inherent flaws. I think it would be average for levels 1-3/4, weak for levels 4/5-9, and be very versatile (but not powerful) for the last levels with the Div S.P. and Prac S.C. feats. That is figuring the character to be a buffing/healing support character. A way to look at Mystic Theurge is to figure out the equivalents: Cleric 6/Divine Oracle 2/Ruather 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 3/Contemplative 1 - replaces the Practiced Spellcaster feats with Extra Turning and Domain Spontaneity(2 or so times) - basically acts something like a sorcerer. Wizard 10/Earth Dreamer 5 who takes Arcane Disciple(Healing) and Magic of the Land. Heal with Haste :)
bhale187 01-13-07, 05:19 PM	Seeing you want hvy armor and want to be a buffer/healer this might work s14/d12/c15/i10/w10/c14 (high str for armor encumbrance/low wis because not casting offensively) 1 Fav Soul mm-still and mm-quicken 2 Fav Soul 3 Fighter Practised Spell Caster/Improved Toughness 4 Fav Soul +1 con 5 Fav Soul 6 Sorcerer Prac Sp Cast-sorc 7 sorc 8 sorc +1 CHA 9 Sorc (choice feat) 10 Mystic Theurge 11 MT 12 MT +1 Cha (choice Feat) 13 MT 14 MT 15 MT (choice feat) You will take a XP hit, but that can be a good thing. Augment Healing could be taken at 9, 12 or 15, but it's viablitly at higher levels is debatable. MM-Reach spell can helpful for staying out of the CQB MM-Transdimensional Spell is a lifesaver in a few circumstances MM-Maximize or Enpower would be helpful for healing MM-Extend is nice for buffing spells
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 11:10 AM	I've got to argue against that last build. I think the level hit for sorceror over wizard is tough, the level hit for favored soul is tough, and the fighter level is just madness. At 9th level, where clerics can raise the dead and wizards can teleport across nations, you'll have two 2nd level spells. Let's say, Cure Moderate Wounds and Scorching Ray. EVEN if you play down to APL 8, you will still see CR 11 opponents, like a hill giant dire wereboar, two vrocks, or four dire bears. Good luck.
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 11:17 AM	The thing about mystic theurge is that you get a LOT of spells. So, whenever anything happens, your answer should always be "with a spell". An 8th level mystic theurge (wiz3/clr3/mth2) will have 3rd levels spells from both sides. Assuming a human with a 10 dex, and several active spells: AC could be 10 (base) + 4 (mage armor) + 4(shield) + 2 (deflection) + 2 (dex) + 1 (haste) + 1 (size) = 24 AC with full plate, tower shield = 22 (and enough ASF to negate arcane spells) With mirror image, aid, invisibility, bear's endurance,... You'll be quite safe.
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 11:52 AM	The thing about mystic theurge is that you get a LOT of spells. So, whenever anything happens, your answer should always be "with a spell". An 8th level mystic theurge (wiz3/clr3/mth2) will have 3rd levels spells from both sides. Assuming a human with a 10 dex, and several active spells: AC could be 10 (base) + 4 (mage armor) + 4(shield) + 2 (deflection) + 2 (dex) + 1 (haste) + 1 (size) = 24 Except they don't actually have the extra spells to pull that off until they're at least 10th, if not 12th level. At 8th level, a Mystic Theurge with a 20 Int and 18 Wisdom will have: Wizard(specialist): 6 4 3 Cleric: 5 4 3 Total of 25 spells A Specialist Wizard 8 with a 22 Int will have: Wizard 7 6 5 4 Total of 22 spells(18 if non-specialist) A Cleric 8 with a 20 Wisdom will have: Cleric 7 5 5 4 Total of 21 spells At 9th level, they all gain 4 spells. The Mystic Theurge gains 2 2nd and 2 3rd. The other two gain 1 2nd and 3 5th level spells. At 7th level, they'll actually have less spells per day than a Specialist Wizard or Cleric. That's the real problem with Mystic Theurge is that they don't actually have a lot of spells until 10th. We're not even considering the quality of the spells, just the number. I assumed, for purposes of this that the Wizard started with 16 build points in Int, the Mystic Theurge started with 10 build points in both Int/Wis, and the Cleric spent 10 build points in Wis. I assumed that they bought +2 stat items for each relevant stat(the Mystic Theurge having bought 2, the others 1)
bhale187 01-15-07, 12:21 PM	The thing about mystic theurge is that you get a LOT of spells. So, whenever anything happens, your answer should always be "with a spell". An 8th level mystic theurge (wiz3/clr3/mth2) will have 3rd levels spells from both sides. Assuming a human with a 10 dex, and several active spells: AC could be 10 (base) + 4 (mage armor) + 4(shield) + 2 (deflection) + 2 (dex) + 1 (haste) + 1 (size) = 24 AC with full plate, tower shield = 22 (and enough ASF to negate arcane spells) With mirror image, aid, invisibility, bear's endurance,... You'll be quite safe. The problem with those ac numbers is that the fight will be over by the time you cast those on yourself. Also the build I suggested would be 23 base ac, and 27 with mage armor up (since it lasts 1hour/levell you can afford to precast it). Taking 1 fighter level gives the tower shield and one bonus feat free, and it loses 1x4th and 1x5th sorc spell or 1x4th and 1x5th favored soul spell. So arguably it would be worth taking the tower shield feat in it's place. He said he was looking for a support build, IMO the best support he can give is to buff the frontline fighter while casting defensively. Obviously the cleric and wizard are going to be casting more powerful spells, but favored soul/sorcerer keeps the casting ability all in one stat as well as offering more spells per day and spontaneous casting. that makes it a personal preference.
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 12:38 PM	Obviously the cleric and wizard are going to be casting more powerful spells, but favored soul/sorcerer keeps the casting ability all in one stat as well as offering more spells per day and spontaneous casting. that makes it a personal preference. Favored Soul/Sorcerer doesn't actually have more spells. That need to go to 4th level in both classes kills 'em. At 8th level, they have: 8 5 8 5 That's with a 22 Charisma. If they have the more likely 20 Charisma(10 build points instead of 16), they drop off to 24 spells per day, less than the Cleric/Wizard Theurge. At the next level, they only gain 2 spells for 26 spells. Yes, that's right, at 9th level, the Specialist Wizard actually has the same number of spells per day. Except instead of only casting 2nd level spells, the Specialist Wizard is casting 5th level ones...
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 12:59 PM	The problem with those ac numbers is that the fight will be over by the time you cast those on yourself. Also the build I suggested would be 23 base ac, and 27 with mage armor up (since it lasts 1hour/levell you can afford to precast it). I'm not sure how you get these numbers, bhale. Full plate with a dex bonus is only a 19 AC, and mage armor doesn't help that any (except vs. incorporeals). With the tower shield, you'll get to AC 23, but there are problems. 1) With a 10 Wisdom, you can only cast zero-level cleric spells. 2) With still spell, you'll be able to cast 1st level stilled spells with your second level slots. At APL 8-10, that's woefully bad. The party would be better off with a 5th level wizard at the table, who would have roughly the same AC, hit points (better CON and false life), and higher level spells than your 9th level character. And, as Mommy's pointed out, more spells per day.
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 01:06 PM	Overall, if you are going to be a theurge, you should know the following: 1) you are not twice as good as a cleric or wizard of your level. 2) You may not even be as good, those top level spells are powerful. 3) Having two casting stats is painful, and means lower DCs. Combined with point two above, this means that your best strategies are buffing/utility and item creation. 4) Theurge builds develop late, like arcane tricksters. Despite an early peak at 2nd level, you'll fall behind until about 10th level. 5) There are other ways to skin this particular cat, like using the arcane disciple feat, or the magic domain. 6) While having one casting stat sounds good, the slower progression for sorceror/favored soul will make you nearly useless as a spellcaster. Since you've sacrificed all other abilities to be a theurge, you won't be good for anything else either.
bhale187 01-15-07, 01:44 PM	"I'm not sure how you get these numbers, bhale. Full plate with a dex bonus is only a 19 AC, and mage armor doesn't help that any (except vs. incorporeals). With the tower shield, you'll get to AC 23, but there are problems." you're right I was confusing magic vestments for mage armor, my mistake :embarrass As you already pointed out, MT is certainly less powerful than a 'pure' arcane or divine caster untill the near epic levels. At the lower levels the MT is at best more versatile. IMO the FS/Sorc is more versatile as a support character, but obviously less powerful than the Wiz/Cleric due to the higher level spells the wiz/cleric will gain.
Mommy was an Orc 01-15-07, 02:04 PM	IMO the FS/Sorc is more versatile as a support character, but obviously less powerful than the Wiz/Cleric due to the higher level spells the wiz/cleric will gain. I really don't see that. A Favored Soul/Sorcerer has very limited spell choice - at 10th level, they know 19 spells of 1st-3rd level and can cast likely about 36 spells. A Cleric/Wizard at that point 37 spells per day of 1st-4th level(see why 10th is considered the breakpoint?) The difference in power between 3rd and 4th is enormous from a support standpoint. Polymorph, Solid Fog, Deathward, Freedom of Movement, Dimension Door, Wall of Ice, Air Walk, Restoration, Evard's, Greater Invisibility, etc...
bhale187 01-15-07, 02:26 PM	Versatile as in only one spell-cast stat allows for more buy points in other spots. Also spontaneous casting because it is often difficult to plan the right spells in the right quantities unless you know exactly what you will encounter that day.
UMiskatonic 01-15-07, 03:04 PM	But the cleric/wizard has the scribe scroll feat. For free. Not having the scrolls you need is like taking weapon focus, and then using a chair. Sure, you could do it, but it's a terrible idea. Furthermore, it's not a defect of the class, it's just a defect of a particular player.
jstorrie 01-15-07, 04:20 PM	Having a few extra points (which would likely just go to Dex, anyway - Mystic Theurges would already 14/14/14 Con/Int/Wis) is not as important as having 3rd level spells on both sides, and wider spell selection makes for more versatility. If you can't choose your spells well enough to play a Clr/Wiz Mystic Theurge, play a Sorceror (or a Bard/Divine Crusader/Sublime Chord/Mystic Theurge, har har.)
Japangirl 01-16-07, 01:00 PM	Fav Soul/Sorc is a little dicey, because your spell lists are so limited. While it may sound odd, a Fav Soul/Warmage (MT at same level) actually allows more versatility because you *know* what your blasty spells are and where they are coming from. The Fav Soul side is all buffs and healing spells. Also, you get armor. Yes, MT is not nearly as good a healer as straight cleric or straight Favored Soul. However, I am biased because I think I've been Heroes Feasted exactly four times in my almost-14 rogue's career (once at a convention interactive, once in one convention's normal slot, once at APL 8 playing at 12 with a 17th level cleric, and once by a cohort) and so I'm used to minimal healing, almost all done out of combat. You can survive like that, it just requires building characters that don't count on healing. When I have a Mystic Theurge at the table, I cheer because now we have lots of healing. The last APL 14 mod I played, our Druid was a bear the whole time (he was the main tank with AC 49 and DR and fast healing) and the 10th level theurge did most of the healing. Without him, our healing was the druid. So do whatever you want, and just make it work.
jstorrie 01-16-07, 05:26 PM	FS/Sorc isn't a little dicey, it's practically suicidal. I'd be very cranky if one came to my table and I had to hold their hand through the entire mod. Cler/Sorc isn't too bad, though, if you're capitalizing on the high Cha with appropriate Divine feats. You can probably sneak in something like Mindbender to eat up that fourth necessary Sorc level, too, which is all right.
trollbill 01-16-07, 06:14 PM	FS/Sorc isn't a little dicey, it's practically suicidal. I'd be very cranky if one came to my table and I had to hold their hand through the entire mod. Interesting sentiment. "You aren't allowed to play LG with me unless you power build." It's not like the guy wants to play a Commoner.
Mommy was an Orc 01-16-07, 06:39 PM	Interesting sentiment. "You aren't allowed to play LG with me unless you power build." It's not like the guy wants to play a Commoner. Actually, it isn't far off. He's not asking for a power build, he's saying he'd rather not play with someone who is weak playing down 2. By the way, everyone does realize that because neither Favored Soul or Sorcerer has Knowledge(Religion) as a class skill, that means they can't be a Mystic Theurge until 10th level... Unless they spend a feat or gain access to Ruathar.
_m_ 01-16-07, 06:45 PM	Interesting sentiment. "You aren't allowed to play LG with me unless you power build." It's not like the guy wants to play a Commoner. well said. dont get we wrong, i get ****** if someone brings a STUPID character to my table (you know the ones, lvl 6's who seem to have no discernable class or feat), but id be fine for a sorc soul theurge to come along :D
jstorrie 01-16-07, 06:46 PM	Interesting sentiment. "You aren't allowed to play LG with me unless you power build." It's not like the guy wants to play a Commoner. No, but it is like the guy wants to play an Adept. You know, Adept, the NPC class? Because a FS/Sorc MT has just slightly less casting power than one of those.
Loignar 01-16-07, 07:32 PM	I really just wanted to make a good support character, and this would have been my first shot a Mystic Theurge. At first glance it seemed to me that the mixing of divine and arcane buffing spells, even if very limited in selection, would be benefitial to the party as a whole. After further thought (obviously inspired by the ideas posted here) it seems like I would be much better off sticking to one of the other.
UMiskatonic 01-16-07, 09:03 PM	FS/Sorc isn't a little dicey, it's practically suicidal. I'd be very cranky if one came to my table and I had to hold their hand through the entire mod. Absolutely. At this point, I've got characters that represent 4 years of work. I expect that when I sit down at a high-APL table, that you be capable of contributing to the group. If you are only as good as an iconic build that's two levels lower, that's not enough. It's not a big deal at low APLs because there's a limit as to how far behind you can actually be. At high levels, it's dramatic. Even worse are the players who, instead of failing to contribute, actually make the mod MORE difficult. i.e., "No, I don't have any spells that bypass SR",
trollbill 01-16-07, 11:12 PM	No, but it is like the guy wants to play an Adept. You know, Adept, the NPC class? Because a FS/Sorc MT has just slightly less casting power than one of those. I find I have to pull the weight more of people who don't know how to play their characters than ones who don't know how to build them.
_m_ 01-16-07, 11:51 PM	I find I have to pull the weight more of people who don't know how to play their characters than ones who don't know how to build them. indeed. i could give a noob / idiot / inatenetive player the best build toon i have, and it still wouldnt be a usefull party member.
clannagh 01-17-07, 12:47 AM	I really just wanted to make a good support character, and this would have been my first shot a Mystic Theurge. At first glance it seemed to me that the mixing of divine and arcane buffing spells, even if very limited in selection, would be benefitial to the party as a whole. After further thought (obviously inspired by the ideas posted here) it seems like I would be much better off sticking to one of the other. well theurge kinda makes sense in a campaign where you regularly run out of spells but that really isnt going to happen in LG
Paul H 01-29-07, 05:36 PM	Hi My main, Clr 3 (Boccob, Magic, Trickery) Warmage 4 is going MT. His stats far from optimised, but designed as a support character. No problems at APL6, but not designed to fulfill roles of main Arcane/Divine spellcaster. Last mod I played, the Warmage spells helped detroy a mob or some such, then my Invis healing helped keep characters alive. It's the flexibility I like. Dwarf Clr/Warmage St 10 De 12 Co 14 In 12 Wi 15 Ch 13 Feats. Combat Casting, Practiced Spellcaster Warmage, Leadership. (Got Dakon Cohort). Leadership was unfortunate - got suckered in because of really good cohort, but haven't used him yet. Should have taken Shielded Caster, or Practiced Spellcaster Cleric instead. But still had a lot of fun with him - which is the whole idea, isn't it? Cheers Paul H
jstorrie 01-29-07, 06:05 PM	I'd debate that Cler 3 / Wmg 4 is any more versatile than Cler 7. I'm not suggesting that your character is unplayable, but you're overestimating how flexible being a dual caster is and how useful that flexibility is.
Paul H 01-29-07, 06:17 PM	Hi It's flexible in that I cast both arcane & divine spells. Also some of the spells are 'limited', exept as Warmages. Originally I was going to play pure cleric - hence the stats, but then Warmage became available, and I multiclassed. Realise I could have started new Grey Elf Warmage char, but already put enough into main char so I continued with him. (My Mark of heroes char is Warmage/Recaster - I just love Blaster Casters wearing armour - but that's just me). Anyway, at end of the day it's all about how you play your char & having fun. :D Cheers Paul H
_m_ 01-29-07, 09:42 PM	my shadowcraft mage: arcane disciple - pelor spontaneous healing. cleric mage with no curve problems. admitedly, ur down on spells, but if the party wants a wizard, ur a wizard, if they want a cleric, ur a cleric.
wagnert 02-02-07, 05:46 PM	My secondary character is an enchantress5/cleric3/MT1 and is obviously limited to 3rd level arcane and 2nd level divine until next level. However, with practised spellcaster twice, I focus on buffing spells from both sides, especially haste, and a dedicated arcane/divine can focus on their higher level spells. I also provide the vigor series of spells and carry other spells that bypass SR and carry plenty of self crafted pearls of power.