Naric The Gnomic Knight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Naric The Gnomic Knight [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
cetiken
03-16-07, 08:31 PM So... Here we go:

Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 8, Wis: 8, Cha: 14

Knight 1: Dodge
Knight 2: Mounted Combat
Knight 3: Titan Fighting
Knight 4:
Knight 5: Ride-by-Attack
Knight 6: Power Attack
Knight 7:
Knight 8:
Knight 9: Goad
Knight 10: Spirited Charge
Knight 11:
Fighter 1: Shield Specialization, Armor Specialization (Full Plate)
Fighter 2: Weapon Focus (a one-handed weapon)
Fighter 3:
Fighter 4: Shield Ward, Weapon Spec

This seems like a fun build, going for an AC monkey and making the enemies chase me around the battlefield to make meele attacks.
Eric Anondson
03-16-07, 11:09 PM Knight 6: Power Attack
...
Fighter 2: Power AttackYou got Power Attack in there twice...
jstorrie
03-17-07, 01:37 AM Why be an AC monkey and a ride-by-nuker at the same time? A mounted charger's job is to deal damage and then ride out of the way, not tank.

If you wanted to really do a Gnome high-AC goader/challenger, what about

Gnome
Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 12
1 Knight Weapon Finesse
2 Knight
3 Fighter Combat Expertise, Deadly Defense
4 Fighter Weapon Focus: Rapier
5 Knight
6 Fighter Dodge
7 Fighter Mobility
8 Knight
9 Blade Bravo Goad, Elusive Target
10 Blade Bravo
11 Blade Bravo Improved Disarm
12 Blade Bravo Titan Fighting
13 Blade Bravo
14 Blade Bravo Blind-Fighting
15 Blade Bravo Improved Critical

or something along those lines?
cetiken
03-17-07, 10:07 AM 12 con?!

I wouldn't take a wizard into battle with that little con, yet alone a guy who wanted to get hit. Not to mention that Blade Brovos only have a d8 hit die and thats just asking for trouble.

I did initally try to work it as something similar, but making the stats just don't seem to work for my satisfaction.
dkay807
03-17-07, 11:38 AM I agree about the 12 con. You would be daft to make a gnome without a 16 con.

However, he has a point... you should choose one route and stick with it. There's no reason to invest in AC and tanking ability if you're always be riding away. Goad won't work 80% of the time.
jstorrie
03-17-07, 12:06 PM I think that if you're corking you can get away with 12 Con. Your Knight HDs offset your Blade Bravo ACs, and you'd always be Expertising for at least 2 to keep Deadly Defense Active. By the time your hit dice get to d8s you're immune to Power Attacks as well. You could make it, as long as your item purchases were wise.
cetiken
03-17-07, 12:48 PM Humm...

Well, I see your point. I'm not actually familiar with Deadly Defense (not having CS handy).

Well if we continued to not do things by halves, we could drop strength to 10 and then boost con to 14. It means we'll have a very difficult time doing any kind of damage (though 12 wasn't much), weapon finesse as a feet will mitigate the weak to-hit rolls, so thats something.

Humm...

I like titan fighting more at level 7 than 12.
Japangirl
03-17-07, 02:55 PM Even with lots of AC, YOU WILL STILL GET HIT FOR SH*TTONS OF DAMAGE! Even negating power attack. You will still get critted, you will still see things that have 4 attacks/rd at +35 (you were there, you should remember those evil oozes), you will still get grappled and mauled to death (you weren't there for that, but it wasn't pretty to see a ranger dropped to -15 in a round of munching, also d8 hd).

Get at least a 14 Con. 16 if you can swing it at all.
Timlagor
03-17-07, 11:21 PM You'd be crazy to build a Gnome frontliner without 16 Con... completely barking bonkers :D
(...rather like most gnomes in fact)

There are most definitely tables where you want the ride-by guy to stay there and suck up some counter-attacks for the team so the first idea isn't entirely bad. I wouldn't use a Shield with a Ride-by guy though (despite the fact that ranged-touch spells are going to be one of the most significant threats)
Southernskies
03-18-07, 02:58 AM I have found using a buckler as a lancer is the best option. No rules issues with getting 2:1 Power Attack with a lance if you use a buckler, and if you can't make the "guide with knees" DC, leaves a hand free.
LeeShort
03-18-07, 12:27 PM I've been considering a similar build, and have come up against 2 big weaknesses I can't seem to do a lot about: grappling, and no mount survivability (without which, no mobility). I certainly agree with cetiken that Titan Fighting should be taken as quickly as possible. Use your lance one-handed, a spiked shield, and Bulwark of Defense to control the battlefield with an uber AC (hiding behind your mount, it's *very* good starting at 3rd level). I think this build is best as a battlefield control build.

There are a number of options to help get around the weaknesses: a level of cleric for the travel domain, and general utility (and for Divine Justice and Divine Shield). Perhaps beastmaster to make the mount survivable. Or maybe just 5 levels of Paladin. But I don't see a clean way of getting around the weaknesses while maintaining enough of the strengths. Maybe jstorrie's idea of abandoning the mount is a good one.
Maesto
03-18-07, 12:34 PM Note that the travel domain ability gets you out of magical impediments to movement, but not grapples.
cetiken
03-18-07, 03:06 PM I've been considering a similar build, and have come up against 2 big weaknesses I can't seem to do a lot about: grappling, and no mount survivability (without which, no mobility). I certainly agree with cetiken that Titan Fighting should be taken as quickly as possible. Use your lance one-handed, a spiked shield, and Bulwark of Defense to control the battlefield with an uber AC (hiding behind your mount, it's *very* good starting at 3rd level). I think this build is best as a battlefield control build.

I'm not really seeing the big deal with your complaints. Being bad at grappling is something that every small fighter has to deal with, and the mount will occasionally die. On the other hand, ridding dogs are cheap. And its not like you're useless without the mount. I'll personally be thrilled every time an opponent takes a swing at my dog. Then Mounted Combat won't be a wasted feet.

Taking levels in classes that would A) strain the stat buy further and B) not improve BAB progression seems like a bad plan to me. I personally believe in knowing your flaws and trying to focus your strengths rather than weakening yourself to try and cover every eventuality (imposable).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
cetiken 03-16-07, 08:31 PM	So... Here we go: Str: 14, Dex: 14, Con: 16, Int: 8, Wis: 8, Cha: 14 Knight 1: Dodge Knight 2: Mounted Combat Knight 3: Titan Fighting Knight 4: Knight 5: Ride-by-Attack Knight 6: Power Attack Knight 7: Knight 8: Knight 9: Goad Knight 10: Spirited Charge Knight 11: Fighter 1: Shield Specialization, Armor Specialization (Full Plate) Fighter 2: Weapon Focus (a one-handed weapon) Fighter 3: Fighter 4: Shield Ward, Weapon Spec This seems like a fun build, going for an AC monkey and making the enemies chase me around the battlefield to make meele attacks.
Eric Anondson 03-16-07, 11:09 PM	Knight 6: Power Attack ... Fighter 2: Power AttackYou got Power Attack in there twice...
jstorrie 03-17-07, 01:37 AM	Why be an AC monkey and a ride-by-nuker at the same time? A mounted charger's job is to deal damage and then ride out of the way, not tank. If you wanted to really do a Gnome high-AC goader/challenger, what about Gnome Str 12 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 12 1 Knight Weapon Finesse 2 Knight 3 Fighter Combat Expertise, Deadly Defense 4 Fighter Weapon Focus: Rapier 5 Knight 6 Fighter Dodge 7 Fighter Mobility 8 Knight 9 Blade Bravo Goad, Elusive Target 10 Blade Bravo 11 Blade Bravo Improved Disarm 12 Blade Bravo Titan Fighting 13 Blade Bravo 14 Blade Bravo Blind-Fighting 15 Blade Bravo Improved Critical or something along those lines?
cetiken 03-17-07, 10:07 AM	12 con?! I wouldn't take a wizard into battle with that little con, yet alone a guy who wanted to get hit. Not to mention that Blade Brovos only have a d8 hit die and thats just asking for trouble. I did initally try to work it as something similar, but making the stats just don't seem to work for my satisfaction.
dkay807 03-17-07, 11:38 AM	I agree about the 12 con. You would be daft to make a gnome without a 16 con. However, he has a point... you should choose one route and stick with it. There's no reason to invest in AC and tanking ability if you're always be riding away. Goad won't work 80% of the time.
jstorrie 03-17-07, 12:06 PM	I think that if you're corking you can get away with 12 Con. Your Knight HDs offset your Blade Bravo ACs, and you'd always be Expertising for at least 2 to keep Deadly Defense Active. By the time your hit dice get to d8s you're immune to Power Attacks as well. You could make it, as long as your item purchases were wise.
cetiken 03-17-07, 12:48 PM	Humm... Well, I see your point. I'm not actually familiar with Deadly Defense (not having CS handy). Well if we continued to not do things by halves, we could drop strength to 10 and then boost con to 14. It means we'll have a very difficult time doing any kind of damage (though 12 wasn't much), weapon finesse as a feet will mitigate the weak to-hit rolls, so thats something. Humm... I like titan fighting more at level 7 than 12.
Japangirl 03-17-07, 02:55 PM	Even with lots of AC, YOU WILL STILL GET HIT FOR SH*TTONS OF DAMAGE! Even negating power attack. You will still get critted, you will still see things that have 4 attacks/rd at +35 (you were there, you should remember those evil oozes), you will still get grappled and mauled to death (you weren't there for that, but it wasn't pretty to see a ranger dropped to -15 in a round of munching, also d8 hd). Get at least a 14 Con. 16 if you can swing it at all.
Timlagor 03-17-07, 11:21 PM	You'd be crazy to build a Gnome frontliner without 16 Con... completely barking bonkers :D (...rather like most gnomes in fact) There are most definitely tables where you want the ride-by guy to stay there and suck up some counter-attacks for the team so the first idea isn't entirely bad. I wouldn't use a Shield with a Ride-by guy though (despite the fact that ranged-touch spells are going to be one of the most significant threats)
Southernskies 03-18-07, 02:58 AM	I have found using a buckler as a lancer is the best option. No rules issues with getting 2:1 Power Attack with a lance if you use a buckler, and if you can't make the "guide with knees" DC, leaves a hand free.
LeeShort 03-18-07, 12:27 PM	I've been considering a similar build, and have come up against 2 big weaknesses I can't seem to do a lot about: grappling, and no mount survivability (without which, no mobility). I certainly agree with cetiken that Titan Fighting should be taken as quickly as possible. Use your lance one-handed, a spiked shield, and Bulwark of Defense to control the battlefield with an uber AC (hiding behind your mount, it's very good starting at 3rd level). I think this build is best as a battlefield control build. There are a number of options to help get around the weaknesses: a level of cleric for the travel domain, and general utility (and for Divine Justice and Divine Shield). Perhaps beastmaster to make the mount survivable. Or maybe just 5 levels of Paladin. But I don't see a clean way of getting around the weaknesses while maintaining enough of the strengths. Maybe jstorrie's idea of abandoning the mount is a good one.
Maesto 03-18-07, 12:34 PM	Note that the travel domain ability gets you out of magical impediments to movement, but not grapples.
cetiken 03-18-07, 03:06 PM	I've been considering a similar build, and have come up against 2 big weaknesses I can't seem to do a lot about: grappling, and no mount survivability (without which, no mobility). I certainly agree with cetiken that Titan Fighting should be taken as quickly as possible. Use your lance one-handed, a spiked shield, and Bulwark of Defense to control the battlefield with an uber AC (hiding behind your mount, it's very good starting at 3rd level). I think this build is best as a battlefield control build. I'm not really seeing the big deal with your complaints. Being bad at grappling is something that every small fighter has to deal with, and the mount will occasionally die. On the other hand, ridding dogs are cheap. And its not like you're useless without the mount. I'll personally be thrilled every time an opponent takes a swing at my dog. Then Mounted Combat won't be a wasted feet. Taking levels in classes that would A) strain the stat buy further and B) not improve BAB progression seems like a bad plan to me. I personally believe in knowing your flaws and trying to focus your strengths rather than weakening yourself to try and cover every eventuality (imposable).