Net and Trident Stormlord [Archive] - Wizards Community

Net and Trident Stormlord [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 01:32 PM Hey guys, it's me again with another wacky character. I was reading the stormlord thread in the rules and saw MWaO's Stormlord and was inspired, so here he is.

Race: Wood Elf
STR 16
DEX 16
CON 12
INT 8
WIS 10
CHA 15

Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Hexblade 2/Marshal 1/Divine Crusader 3/Stormlord 4

1 Ranger 1: Track, Weapon Focus: Trident, Favored Enemy: Humanoid(Human)
2 Ranger 2: Two-Weapon Fighting
3 Hexblade 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Net
4 Hexblade 2: CHA 16
5 Marshal 1: Motivate Strength, Skill Focus: Diplomacy
6 Fighter 1: Power Attack, Quick Draw
7 Fighter 2: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
8 Ranger 3: Endurance, CHA 17
9 Divine Crusader 1: Great Fortitude
10 Divine Crusader 2
11 Divine Crusader 3
12 Stormlord 1: Improved Buckler Defense, CHA 18
13 Stormlord 2
14 Stormlord 3
15 Stormlord 4: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting

BAB: +12
Fort: +15
Ref: +5
Will: +13
7th Level spells from a Domain, most likely Travel
+7 to Saves and Strength checks, assuming a +6 Cloak

I'd like to hear your opinions on the build and any experience with, positive or negative, with the Net and Trident combat style.
Mommy was an Orc
11-17-06, 02:41 PM I'm not really enthralled with actual proficiency in the Net. At a certain point, unless you're facing something with a really high touch AC, you're hitting them anyway. And it happens pretty quickly for you.

I'd do your progression in the following way:
1: Ranger: Track, Weapon Focus: Trident, Favored Enemy: Humanoid(Human)
2: Fighter: Power Attack
3: Ranger: Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized TWF
4: Marshal: Motivate Strength, Skill Focus: Diplomacy
5: Hexblade
6: Hexblade: Quick Draw
7: Fighter: ITWF
8: Ranger: Endurance
9 Divine Crusader: Great Fortitude

That way you get to max out your skill points in the most effective way - you also get the ability to wield two electrified tridents simultaneously...
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 03:07 PM The reason I took the net proficiency is that because it's a ranged attack, I'l very likely have a -4 to hit because the monster is in melee with another opponent so a total for -8 including non-proficiency would be too big in my opinion. If this isn't the case for some reason though, oversized twf is a good choice, although I wouldn't be able to hold the rope if I pulled out a second trident. I agree with you on the whole spread out ranger and marshal levels, I need to iron out the order I take the classes in once I actually start working on the skills.
Britt
11-17-06, 05:09 PM I'd like to hear your opinions on the build and any experience with, positive or negative, with the Net and Trident combat style.
Worst feat ever! Seriously, how often will you be able to use a feat where you MUST start exactly 10' from the monster at the beginning of the round?
Mommy was an Orc
11-17-06, 05:26 PM Worst feat ever! Seriously, how often will you be able to use a feat where you MUST start exactly 10' from the monster at the beginning of the round?

That's actually not quite true - you're allowed to take a 5' step before taking your full-round action. That it grants you a 5' step doesn't mean you're not allowed to take the 1st one, you're just not allowed to take a 5' step afterwards.

So it ends up having two uses:
You take a 5' step back, throw your net without provoking an AoO or throwing at a target in melee, then 5' step back in.

Or

If you position yourself just right and a DM interprets toward an opponent as not meaning directly toward an opponent, you do something like this:
O
1 3
2

So you start off at 1, step to 2, throw your net, then step to 3. If you've got levels in Scout, you moved 10' and still have a full attack to use with your Trident...

Still kind of a lousy feat, though.
Britt
11-17-06, 05:58 PM Wait, are you saying that because the feat lets you take a 5' step, you can take two 5' steps in one round? That's not possible. That would be like saying when you cannot attack because you failed a save against sanctuary or some such, you could still attack because the feat said so.

"You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement...You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance."

Even if you ignore that Net and Trident specifically says "a 5-foot step", not move 5 feet, you still couldn't do it. It doesn't matter what order you take them in; if you move you can't 5' step and if you 5' step you can't move.
Alpha_Nerd
11-17-06, 05:59 PM Ok, so the Net and Trident feat lets you do all of this while not considered two-weapon fighting. But if you two-weapon fight, you can take multiple chances with the net, making it better. Ugh, they need to remake this feat.
Mommy was an Orc
11-17-06, 06:46 PM Wait, are you saying that because the feat lets you take a 5' step, you can take two 5' steps in one round? That's not possible. That would be like saying when you cannot attack because you failed a save against sanctuary or some such, you could still attack because the feat said so.

Yup, I'm wrong on it. Thought it might have potential, but clearly illegal. Lousy flavor feat.
Britt
11-17-06, 07:15 PM Yeah, I was building some gladiatorial type NPCs for a metaorg and built one of these and he sucked! It was cool for flavor, but just not worth it. Plus, you can do all the same flavor stuff without the feat. *shrug*
Jay_Ibero_911
11-18-06, 09:31 PM My original bright sands character was going to go for Net and Trident Style, but went for a slightly different build once I finally created him. Still keeping net proficiency, just cause I think it's fun, and it goes with his flavor of being a hunter, who will eventually be a hunter of men as a Justiciar.
_m_
11-20-06, 08:06 PM My original bright sands character was going to go for Net and Trident Style, but went for a slightly different build once I finally created him. Still keeping net proficiency, just cause I think it's fun, and it goes with his flavor of being a hunter, who will eventually be a hunter of men as a Justiciar.

personally i think the bloodhound is far superior to to the justicar for that sort of thing.

incidentally, if flavourfull hunters is your thing:
human: Str 15, dex 13, con 12, int 14, cha 10, wis 13, LN

1: 1 ranger: track, power attack, dodge.
2: 1 monk: improved unarmed strike, flurry of blows, stunning fist
3: 1 fighter: mobility, endurance
4: 2 monk: evasion, combat reflexes (+Str = 16)
5: 2 fighter: spring attack
6: 1 bloodhound: whirlwind attack, mark 1, swift tracker
7: 2 bloodhound: nonlethal force, ready and waiting
8: 3 bloodhound: bring em back alive, + 10 move speed (+1 dex= 14)
9: 4 bloodhound: hunters dedication. rapid stunning
10: 1 wolflord: animal bond, wild empathy, detect animals
11: 2 wolflord: first totem, lowlight vision
12: 3 wolflord: wild aspect (scent) / 1 day. extra stunning (+1 wis= 14)
13: 5 bloodhound: cripling strike, track the traceless
14: 6 bloodhound: see invisible, shileded mind, + 20 move

not totally optomised, but makes a damn cool hunter, with kind of an unbelievable number of things it can do... whirlwind attaack is, of course, always nice.
Mommy was an Orc
11-20-06, 08:27 PM personally i think the bloodhound is far superior to to the justicar for that sort of thing.

The only thing that Bloodhound really has going for it is that it is theorectically possible to enter it before 5th level and d10/6 skill points per level and you can deliberately sacrifice XP. But wow, is it ever a case of 'sounds great, until you try to make it work'

The big problem with them is that most of their abilities revolve around the ability to mark 1 target per week. If you catch your mark on the 1st day, you've got to wait 6 days to mark someone else. If there's nothing obvious to mark, no benefits. You mark someone who shouldn't have been marked? Whoops.

Justiciar on the other hand can do a lot of damage to anyone vulnerable to sneak attacks, without giving up hit dice or BAB to do so.
_m_
11-20-06, 09:51 PM The only thing that Bloodhound really has going for it is that it is theorectically possible to enter it before 5th level and d10/6 skill points per level and you can deliberately sacrifice XP. But wow, is it ever a case of 'sounds great, until you try to make it work'

The big problem with them is that most of their abilities revolve around the ability to mark 1 target per week. If you catch your mark on the 1st day, you've got to wait 6 days to mark someone else. If there's nothing obvious to mark, no benefits. You mark someone who shouldn't have been marked? Whoops.

Justiciar on the other hand can do a lot of damage to anyone vulnerable to sneak attacks, without giving up hit dice or BAB to do so.

true, but a wolf based animal lord bloodhound hunter is more flavourfull, which was what jay was going for, i think. otherwise why would anyone go trident style :D
Jay_Ibero_911
11-20-06, 11:00 PM true, but a wolf based animal lord bloodhound hunter is more flavourfull, which was what jay was going for, i think. otherwise why would anyone go trident style :D

Well, to clarify, here's what I'M going for:

Race:Scabland Half-Orc
Alignment:Lawful Neutral (Nazarn)

STR:16 (10) +2
DEX:15 (8)
CON:14 (6)
INT:10 (2)-2
WIS:10 (2)
CHA:8 (0)-2

Lv1(Ranger)Track(b), Heat Endurance(rb), Scorpion's Resolve
Lv2(Fighter)Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Net)(fb)
Lv3(Fighter)Power Attack(fb), Skill Focus (Gather Information)
Lv4(Ranger)Two-Weapon Fighting(b), +1 DEX
Lv5(Ranger)Endurance(b)
Lv6(Bloodhound)Improved Heat Endurance
Lv7(Justiciar)
Lv8(Justiciar)Improved Grapple(b), +1 STR
Lv9(Justiciar)Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Manacles)(b), Improved Initiative
Lv10(Justiciar)
Lv11(Justiciar)
Lv12(Justiciar)Quick Draw, +1 STR
Lv13(Justiciar)
Lv14(Justiciar)
Lv15(Justiciar)Death Blow

Basically just uses bloodhound to access Justiciar at the earliest possible level. I want to hog-tie someone and shove my smelly scabland half-orc socks in their mouth...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 01:32 PM	Hey guys, it's me again with another wacky character. I was reading the stormlord thread in the rules and saw MWaO's Stormlord and was inspired, so here he is. Race: Wood Elf STR 16 DEX 16 CON 12 INT 8 WIS 10 CHA 15 Ranger 3/Fighter 2/Hexblade 2/Marshal 1/Divine Crusader 3/Stormlord 4 1 Ranger 1: Track, Weapon Focus: Trident, Favored Enemy: Humanoid(Human) 2 Ranger 2: Two-Weapon Fighting 3 Hexblade 1: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Net 4 Hexblade 2: CHA 16 5 Marshal 1: Motivate Strength, Skill Focus: Diplomacy 6 Fighter 1: Power Attack, Quick Draw 7 Fighter 2: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting 8 Ranger 3: Endurance, CHA 17 9 Divine Crusader 1: Great Fortitude 10 Divine Crusader 2 11 Divine Crusader 3 12 Stormlord 1: Improved Buckler Defense, CHA 18 13 Stormlord 2 14 Stormlord 3 15 Stormlord 4: Greater Two-Weapon Fighting BAB: +12 Fort: +15 Ref: +5 Will: +13 7th Level spells from a Domain, most likely Travel +7 to Saves and Strength checks, assuming a +6 Cloak I'd like to hear your opinions on the build and any experience with, positive or negative, with the Net and Trident combat style.
Mommy was an Orc 11-17-06, 02:41 PM	I'm not really enthralled with actual proficiency in the Net. At a certain point, unless you're facing something with a really high touch AC, you're hitting them anyway. And it happens pretty quickly for you. I'd do your progression in the following way: 1: Ranger: Track, Weapon Focus: Trident, Favored Enemy: Humanoid(Human) 2: Fighter: Power Attack 3: Ranger: Two-Weapon Fighting, Oversized TWF 4: Marshal: Motivate Strength, Skill Focus: Diplomacy 5: Hexblade 6: Hexblade: Quick Draw 7: Fighter: ITWF 8: Ranger: Endurance 9 Divine Crusader: Great Fortitude That way you get to max out your skill points in the most effective way - you also get the ability to wield two electrified tridents simultaneously...
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 03:07 PM	The reason I took the net proficiency is that because it's a ranged attack, I'l very likely have a -4 to hit because the monster is in melee with another opponent so a total for -8 including non-proficiency would be too big in my opinion. If this isn't the case for some reason though, oversized twf is a good choice, although I wouldn't be able to hold the rope if I pulled out a second trident. I agree with you on the whole spread out ranger and marshal levels, I need to iron out the order I take the classes in once I actually start working on the skills.
Britt 11-17-06, 05:09 PM	I'd like to hear your opinions on the build and any experience with, positive or negative, with the Net and Trident combat style. Worst feat ever! Seriously, how often will you be able to use a feat where you MUST start exactly 10' from the monster at the beginning of the round?
Mommy was an Orc 11-17-06, 05:26 PM	Worst feat ever! Seriously, how often will you be able to use a feat where you MUST start exactly 10' from the monster at the beginning of the round? That's actually not quite true - you're allowed to take a 5' step before taking your full-round action. That it grants you a 5' step doesn't mean you're not allowed to take the 1st one, you're just not allowed to take a 5' step afterwards. So it ends up having two uses: You take a 5' step back, throw your net without provoking an AoO or throwing at a target in melee, then 5' step back in. Or If you position yourself just right and a DM interprets toward an opponent as not meaning directly toward an opponent, you do something like this: O 1 3 2 So you start off at 1, step to 2, throw your net, then step to 3. If you've got levels in Scout, you moved 10' and still have a full attack to use with your Trident... Still kind of a lousy feat, though.
Britt 11-17-06, 05:58 PM	Wait, are you saying that because the feat lets you take a 5' step, you can take two 5' steps in one round? That's not possible. That would be like saying when you cannot attack because you failed a save against sanctuary or some such, you could still attack because the feat said so. "You can move 5 feet in any round when you don’t perform any other kind of movement...You can’t take more than one 5-foot step in a round, and you can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round when you move any distance." Even if you ignore that Net and Trident specifically says "a 5-foot step", not move 5 feet, you still couldn't do it. It doesn't matter what order you take them in; if you move you can't 5' step and if you 5' step you can't move.
Alpha_Nerd 11-17-06, 05:59 PM	Ok, so the Net and Trident feat lets you do all of this while not considered two-weapon fighting. But if you two-weapon fight, you can take multiple chances with the net, making it better. Ugh, they need to remake this feat.
Mommy was an Orc 11-17-06, 06:46 PM	Wait, are you saying that because the feat lets you take a 5' step, you can take two 5' steps in one round? That's not possible. That would be like saying when you cannot attack because you failed a save against sanctuary or some such, you could still attack because the feat said so. Yup, I'm wrong on it. Thought it might have potential, but clearly illegal. Lousy flavor feat.
Britt 11-17-06, 07:15 PM	Yeah, I was building some gladiatorial type NPCs for a metaorg and built one of these and he sucked! It was cool for flavor, but just not worth it. Plus, you can do all the same flavor stuff without the feat. shrug
Jay_Ibero_911 11-18-06, 09:31 PM	My original bright sands character was going to go for Net and Trident Style, but went for a slightly different build once I finally created him. Still keeping net proficiency, just cause I think it's fun, and it goes with his flavor of being a hunter, who will eventually be a hunter of men as a Justiciar.
_m_ 11-20-06, 08:06 PM	My original bright sands character was going to go for Net and Trident Style, but went for a slightly different build once I finally created him. Still keeping net proficiency, just cause I think it's fun, and it goes with his flavor of being a hunter, who will eventually be a hunter of men as a Justiciar. personally i think the bloodhound is far superior to to the justicar for that sort of thing. incidentally, if flavourfull hunters is your thing: human: Str 15, dex 13, con 12, int 14, cha 10, wis 13, LN 1: 1 ranger: track, power attack, dodge. 2: 1 monk: improved unarmed strike, flurry of blows, stunning fist 3: 1 fighter: mobility, endurance 4: 2 monk: evasion, combat reflexes (+Str = 16) 5: 2 fighter: spring attack 6: 1 bloodhound: whirlwind attack, mark 1, swift tracker 7: 2 bloodhound: nonlethal force, ready and waiting 8: 3 bloodhound: bring em back alive, + 10 move speed (+1 dex= 14) 9: 4 bloodhound: hunters dedication. rapid stunning 10: 1 wolflord: animal bond, wild empathy, detect animals 11: 2 wolflord: first totem, lowlight vision 12: 3 wolflord: wild aspect (scent) / 1 day. extra stunning (+1 wis= 14) 13: 5 bloodhound: cripling strike, track the traceless 14: 6 bloodhound: see invisible, shileded mind, + 20 move not totally optomised, but makes a damn cool hunter, with kind of an unbelievable number of things it can do... whirlwind attaack is, of course, always nice.
Mommy was an Orc 11-20-06, 08:27 PM	personally i think the bloodhound is far superior to to the justicar for that sort of thing. The only thing that Bloodhound really has going for it is that it is theorectically possible to enter it before 5th level and d10/6 skill points per level and you can deliberately sacrifice XP. But wow, is it ever a case of 'sounds great, until you try to make it work' The big problem with them is that most of their abilities revolve around the ability to mark 1 target per week. If you catch your mark on the 1st day, you've got to wait 6 days to mark someone else. If there's nothing obvious to mark, no benefits. You mark someone who shouldn't have been marked? Whoops. Justiciar on the other hand can do a lot of damage to anyone vulnerable to sneak attacks, without giving up hit dice or BAB to do so.
_m_ 11-20-06, 09:51 PM	The only thing that Bloodhound really has going for it is that it is theorectically possible to enter it before 5th level and d10/6 skill points per level and you can deliberately sacrifice XP. But wow, is it ever a case of 'sounds great, until you try to make it work' The big problem with them is that most of their abilities revolve around the ability to mark 1 target per week. If you catch your mark on the 1st day, you've got to wait 6 days to mark someone else. If there's nothing obvious to mark, no benefits. You mark someone who shouldn't have been marked? Whoops. Justiciar on the other hand can do a lot of damage to anyone vulnerable to sneak attacks, without giving up hit dice or BAB to do so. true, but a wolf based animal lord bloodhound hunter is more flavourfull, which was what jay was going for, i think. otherwise why would anyone go trident style :D
Jay_Ibero_911 11-20-06, 11:00 PM	true, but a wolf based animal lord bloodhound hunter is more flavourfull, which was what jay was going for, i think. otherwise why would anyone go trident style :D Well, to clarify, here's what I'M going for: Race:Scabland Half-Orc Alignment:Lawful Neutral (Nazarn) STR:16 (10) +2 DEX:15 (8) CON:14 (6) INT:10 (2)-2 WIS:10 (2) CHA:8 (0)-2 Lv1(Ranger)Track(b), Heat Endurance(rb), Scorpion's Resolve Lv2(Fighter)Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Net)(fb) Lv3(Fighter)Power Attack(fb), Skill Focus (Gather Information) Lv4(Ranger)Two-Weapon Fighting(b), +1 DEX Lv5(Ranger)Endurance(b) Lv6(Bloodhound)Improved Heat Endurance Lv7(Justiciar) Lv8(Justiciar)Improved Grapple(b), +1 STR Lv9(Justiciar)Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Manacles)(b), Improved Initiative Lv10(Justiciar) Lv11(Justiciar) Lv12(Justiciar)Quick Draw, +1 STR Lv13(Justiciar) Lv14(Justiciar) Lv15(Justiciar)Death Blow Basically just uses bloodhound to access Justiciar at the earliest possible level. I want to hog-tie someone and shove my smelly scabland half-orc socks in their mouth...