New PC options [Archive] - Wizards Community

New PC options [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rutrow424
05-24-07, 05:06 PM I have been driving myself crazy trying to come up with some builds for new LG PCs, and can't seem to come up with anything that I like, or that is very different from what I already have (a dwarf spellsword, a dwarf ranger/deepwarden/horizon walker, a half-orc paladin/fighter/drag disciple wannabe). I'm trying to strike the balance between fun to play and effective, but not quite getting there. So I am throwing myself to your opinions on whether these would be effective - here's the contenders:

1) Human Sorcerer - take heritage feats (preferably the Infernal ones) and be a summoner (augment summoning achieved at 6th level). I would love to do this, but the work behind being a summoner seems to me to be something that would bog down the game, even if I have the stats ready-to-go.

S:10 D:14 C:14 I:12 W:8 CH:16; Infernal Heritage and Infernal Howl @ 1st level, take Summon Monster spells with each new spell level.

2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better.

S:16 D:14 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8

3) Human Templar of Kord - something like B1/F1/Cl4/PT9; take PA, MWM, etc to maximize damage. I like the idea, but the low AC scares me; also feel like I am wasting the cleric levels (maybe take more of them and less PT? Strength and Luck domain are pretty good though). Also could wait to see when Complete Champion options are introduced to do something new.

S:17 D:11 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8

4) others - Dwarf Thundertusk Cavalry; Human or Dwarf Tank (w/ Combat Focus and MWM feats); Snow Elf Bear Warrior; Cleric or Favored Soul of Vatun. Not much development here, but if anything here strikes someone's fancy, feel free to chime in.

Obviously #3 will be generally effectiv; I am more concerned whether the first 2 are either sub-par or will be too unwieldy to be fun at a table. Any build advice on any of them is welcome. Thanks in advance for your opinions and help!
UMiskatonic
05-25-07, 11:45 AM I play with a summoning sorceror, and it works fine. It CAN bog down the game, but it doesn't have to, and he's made sure that he doesn't.

Tips:

1) you'll be adding creatures to the battlefield. Be ready for that. You don't have to have anything fancy, take the yellow tokens out of that SORRY game in the basement, but have something, and be able to tell them apart. Numbers work very well.

2) You'll have a limited selection of critters, so there's no excuse not to have all of thier stats on hand, ready to go. If you have Augment Summoning, or whatever else, account for that. Most of that work is already been done, and is available online

3) Be able to talk with the beasts. Learn Infernal, or Ignan, or whatever languages you need, so that you can say "Kill the one on the left" This gets you past a LOT of table variation.

4) Summon Swarm.
Jay_Ibero_911
05-26-07, 10:40 AM I have been driving myself crazy trying to come up with some builds for new LG PCs, and can't seem to come up with anything that I like, or that is very different from what I already have (a dwarf spellsword, a dwarf ranger/deepwarden/horizon walker, a half-orc paladin/fighter/drag disciple wannabe). I'm trying to strike the balance between fun to play and effective, but not quite getting there. So I am throwing myself to your opinions on whether these would be effective - here's the contenders:

1) Human Sorcerer - take heritage feats (preferably the Infernal ones) and be a summoner (augment summoning achieved at 6th level). I would love to do this, but the work behind being a summoner seems to me to be something that would bog down the game, even if I have the stats ready-to-go.

S:10 D:14 C:14 I:12 W:8 CH:16; Infernal Heritage and Infernal Howl @ 1st level, take Summon Monster spells with each new spell level.

2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better.

S:16 D:14 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8

3) Human Templar of Kord - something like B1/F1/Cl4/PT9; take PA, MWM, etc to maximize damage. I like the idea, but the low AC scares me; also feel like I am wasting the cleric levels (maybe take more of them and less PT? Strength and Luck domain are pretty good though). Also could wait to see when Complete Champion options are introduced to do something new.

S:17 D:11 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8

4) others - Dwarf Thundertusk Cavalry; Human or Dwarf Tank (w/ Combat Focus and MWM feats); Snow Elf Bear Warrior; Cleric or Favored Soul of Vatun. Not much development here, but if anything here strikes someone's fancy, feel free to chime in.

Obviously #3 will be generally effectiv; I am more concerned whether the first 2 are either sub-par or will be too unwieldy to be fun at a table. Any build advice on any of them is welcome. Thanks in advance for your opinions and help!

You could try something completely different, like a full druid. Guarunteed to be powerful no matter what race/stats/feats you pic, as long as you got high wisdom.
jstorrie
05-26-07, 04:45 PM Summoner sorcerors aren't bad at all, though you can't use Rapid Spell properly with spontaneously cast spells until you get Rapid Metamagic in the mid-levels. Summoner conjurers probably have the leg up, since you can get Metamagic School Focus and Rapid Spell for much less investment. I also really like summoner clerics–if you start with an alignment domain and the Summoner domain, your summons are actually useful in the low levels.
_metz_
05-27-07, 12:17 AM 2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better.

Monks are better now they can use gauntlets in a flurry, But I would personally build an enlightened fist dragon disciple if I were going monk... Also take Ascetic Mage and focus on str, dex, con and cha.

Monk2 Sorceror3

Stats: (Wood Elf)

Str: 16
Dex: 16
Con: 13
Int: 8
Wis 8
Cha: 14

1. Monk1: Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Casting
2. Monk2: Combat Reflexes
3. Sorceror1: Power Attack
4. Sorceror2: Stat boost Con
5. Sorceror3:
6. Sorceror4: Ascetic Mage
7. DD1:
8. DD2: Stat Boost Str
9. DD3: (Craft Wondrous Item for stat boosters???)
10. DD4:
11. Enlightened Fist1:
12. Enlightened Fist2: Stat Boost Str (Feat???)
13. Enlightened Fist3:
14. Enlightened Fist4:
15. Enlightened Fist5:(???)

In this build you will be an 8th level sorceror, with str 22, 50ft movement, Cha to your AC, be a 7th level monk for most abilities, 11th level for AC purposes, and saves will be ok.

This build is very reliant on you getting con, cha, str and dex boosters, so you can deal damage, have good hitpoints, and a decent AC (from Cha and dex)

Each Claw will be doing 1d10, you will have an AC of 19 without stat boosters of items.

Your BaB won't be fantastic, but you will be doing ok attack wise, and have str 22. Now you will have claws as well so a claw related feat might be ok...

Its not optimal, but monks really aren't that great in LG anyways, and it will be alright.
jstorrie
05-27-07, 03:49 AM Why not take some of the Enlightened Fist levels first, metz? If you went up to EF 3 before starting Dragon Disciple, you could have Ascetic Mage, Fist of Energy, Arcane Fist and Arcane Strike. That'd allow you to do some pretty massive damage a few times per day.
_metz_
05-27-07, 04:40 AM Why not take some of the Enlightened Fist levels first, metz? If you went up to EF 3 before starting Dragon Disciple, you could have Ascetic Mage, Fist of Energy, Arcane Fist and Arcane Strike. That'd allow you to do some pretty massive damage a few times per day.

Yeah I had it that way around first, but changed it to fit in the need for str and claws early, also Ascetic mage is crucial at 6th, otherwise the build suffers massively.

Any tweaking will work well, but I have found getting str early is usually better than later.
lostpike
05-27-07, 01:56 PM Ever consider getting the Nexus Method feat and going the wizard route. It is available from a county of urnst metaorg.
_metz_
05-27-07, 08:58 PM I am not familiar with this feat, but would be wary of wizard as it will prevent you from going Dragon Disciple. (That plus 4 str, and claws is just too good for a monk)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rutrow424 05-24-07, 05:06 PM	I have been driving myself crazy trying to come up with some builds for new LG PCs, and can't seem to come up with anything that I like, or that is very different from what I already have (a dwarf spellsword, a dwarf ranger/deepwarden/horizon walker, a half-orc paladin/fighter/drag disciple wannabe). I'm trying to strike the balance between fun to play and effective, but not quite getting there. So I am throwing myself to your opinions on whether these would be effective - here's the contenders: 1) Human Sorcerer - take heritage feats (preferably the Infernal ones) and be a summoner (augment summoning achieved at 6th level). I would love to do this, but the work behind being a summoner seems to me to be something that would bog down the game, even if I have the stats ready-to-go. S:10 D:14 C:14 I:12 W:8 CH:16; Infernal Heritage and Infernal Howl @ 1st level, take Summon Monster spells with each new spell level. 2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better. S:16 D:14 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8 3) Human Templar of Kord - something like B1/F1/Cl4/PT9; take PA, MWM, etc to maximize damage. I like the idea, but the low AC scares me; also feel like I am wasting the cleric levels (maybe take more of them and less PT? Strength and Luck domain are pretty good though). Also could wait to see when Complete Champion options are introduced to do something new. S:17 D:11 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8 4) others - Dwarf Thundertusk Cavalry; Human or Dwarf Tank (w/ Combat Focus and MWM feats); Snow Elf Bear Warrior; Cleric or Favored Soul of Vatun. Not much development here, but if anything here strikes someone's fancy, feel free to chime in. Obviously #3 will be generally effectiv; I am more concerned whether the first 2 are either sub-par or will be too unwieldy to be fun at a table. Any build advice on any of them is welcome. Thanks in advance for your opinions and help!
UMiskatonic 05-25-07, 11:45 AM	I play with a summoning sorceror, and it works fine. It CAN bog down the game, but it doesn't have to, and he's made sure that he doesn't. Tips: 1) you'll be adding creatures to the battlefield. Be ready for that. You don't have to have anything fancy, take the yellow tokens out of that SORRY game in the basement, but have something, and be able to tell them apart. Numbers work very well. 2) You'll have a limited selection of critters, so there's no excuse not to have all of thier stats on hand, ready to go. If you have Augment Summoning, or whatever else, account for that. Most of that work is already been done, and is available online 3) Be able to talk with the beasts. Learn Infernal, or Ignan, or whatever languages you need, so that you can say "Kill the one on the left" This gets you past a LOT of table variation. 4) Summon Swarm.
Jay_Ibero_911 05-26-07, 10:40 AM	I have been driving myself crazy trying to come up with some builds for new LG PCs, and can't seem to come up with anything that I like, or that is very different from what I already have (a dwarf spellsword, a dwarf ranger/deepwarden/horizon walker, a half-orc paladin/fighter/drag disciple wannabe). I'm trying to strike the balance between fun to play and effective, but not quite getting there. So I am throwing myself to your opinions on whether these would be effective - here's the contenders: 1) Human Sorcerer - take heritage feats (preferably the Infernal ones) and be a summoner (augment summoning achieved at 6th level). I would love to do this, but the work behind being a summoner seems to me to be something that would bog down the game, even if I have the stats ready-to-go. S:10 D:14 C:14 I:12 W:8 CH:16; Infernal Heritage and Infernal Howl @ 1st level, take Summon Monster spells with each new spell level. 2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better. S:16 D:14 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8 3) Human Templar of Kord - something like B1/F1/Cl4/PT9; take PA, MWM, etc to maximize damage. I like the idea, but the low AC scares me; also feel like I am wasting the cleric levels (maybe take more of them and less PT? Strength and Luck domain are pretty good though). Also could wait to see when Complete Champion options are introduced to do something new. S:17 D:11 C:14 I:8 W:14 CH:8 4) others - Dwarf Thundertusk Cavalry; Human or Dwarf Tank (w/ Combat Focus and MWM feats); Snow Elf Bear Warrior; Cleric or Favored Soul of Vatun. Not much development here, but if anything here strikes someone's fancy, feel free to chime in. Obviously #3 will be generally effectiv; I am more concerned whether the first 2 are either sub-par or will be too unwieldy to be fun at a table. Any build advice on any of them is welcome. Thanks in advance for your opinions and help! You could try something completely different, like a full druid. Guarunteed to be powerful no matter what race/stats/feats you pic, as long as you got high wisdom.
jstorrie 05-26-07, 04:45 PM	Summoner sorcerors aren't bad at all, though you can't use Rapid Spell properly with spontaneously cast spells until you get Rapid Metamagic in the mid-levels. Summoner conjurers probably have the leg up, since you can get Metamagic School Focus and Rapid Spell for much less investment. I also really like summoner clerics–if you start with an alignment domain and the Summoner domain, your summons are actually useful in the low levels.
_metz_ 05-27-07, 12:17 AM	2) Human (or Half-orc) monk - take feats (PA, Flying kick, INA, Iron Fist, etc) to pump up damage potential, and be a mobile strike force against opposing squishy types. Low AC and general monk squishiness scares me. I tried a sacred fist build and it doesn't come out much better. Monks are better now they can use gauntlets in a flurry, But I would personally build an enlightened fist dragon disciple if I were going monk... Also take Ascetic Mage and focus on str, dex, con and cha. Monk2 Sorceror3 Stats: (Wood Elf) Str: 16 Dex: 16 Con: 13 Int: 8 Wis 8 Cha: 14 1. Monk1: Stunning Fist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Casting 2. Monk2: Combat Reflexes 3. Sorceror1: Power Attack 4. Sorceror2: Stat boost Con 5. Sorceror3: 6. Sorceror4: Ascetic Mage 7. DD1: 8. DD2: Stat Boost Str 9. DD3: (Craft Wondrous Item for stat boosters???) 10. DD4: 11. Enlightened Fist1: 12. Enlightened Fist2: Stat Boost Str (Feat???) 13. Enlightened Fist3: 14. Enlightened Fist4: 15. Enlightened Fist5:(???) In this build you will be an 8th level sorceror, with str 22, 50ft movement, Cha to your AC, be a 7th level monk for most abilities, 11th level for AC purposes, and saves will be ok. This build is very reliant on you getting con, cha, str and dex boosters, so you can deal damage, have good hitpoints, and a decent AC (from Cha and dex) Each Claw will be doing 1d10, you will have an AC of 19 without stat boosters of items. Your BaB won't be fantastic, but you will be doing ok attack wise, and have str 22. Now you will have claws as well so a claw related feat might be ok... Its not optimal, but monks really aren't that great in LG anyways, and it will be alright.
jstorrie 05-27-07, 03:49 AM	Why not take some of the Enlightened Fist levels first, metz? If you went up to EF 3 before starting Dragon Disciple, you could have Ascetic Mage, Fist of Energy, Arcane Fist and Arcane Strike. That'd allow you to do some pretty massive damage a few times per day.
_metz_ 05-27-07, 04:40 AM	Why not take some of the Enlightened Fist levels first, metz? If you went up to EF 3 before starting Dragon Disciple, you could have Ascetic Mage, Fist of Energy, Arcane Fist and Arcane Strike. That'd allow you to do some pretty massive damage a few times per day. Yeah I had it that way around first, but changed it to fit in the need for str and claws early, also Ascetic mage is crucial at 6th, otherwise the build suffers massively. Any tweaking will work well, but I have found getting str early is usually better than later.
lostpike 05-27-07, 01:56 PM	Ever consider getting the Nexus Method feat and going the wizard route. It is available from a county of urnst metaorg.
_metz_ 05-27-07, 08:58 PM	I am not familiar with this feat, but would be wary of wizard as it will prevent you from going Dragon Disciple. (That plus 4 str, and claws is just too good for a monk)