new tro LG making First Char want some help [Archive] - Wizards Community

new tro LG making First Char want some help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
yobtar
11-14-07, 05:24 PM I was planning on making a halfling monk that will eventually be a drunken master
I was going to start my stats at(maybe)
16 str
14 dex
14 con
10 int
12 wis
8 cha

is that a good start?
bitznarf
11-14-07, 05:47 PM What is your design goal? Ie. what do you want your PC to be able to do? What sort of a character concept do you want to work with? Note that small sized PCs make poor trippers and grapplers.
yobtar
11-14-07, 06:25 PM like i said i thought about eventually a drunken master prestige kind of a support damage dealer of sorts. how come the halflings don't make good monks? i would think the size they can get the low center of gravity
If not a halfling what would you suggest?
Hariman
11-14-07, 07:06 PM like i said i thought about eventually a drunken master prestige kind of a support damage dealer of sorts. how come the halflings don't make good monks? i would think the size they can get the low center of gravity
If not a halfling what would you suggest?

Forget any realism with a "low center of gravity". D&D mechanics replace reality.

The greatest flaw of a small monk is that it becomes even harder to do damage and you take penalties to grapples and trip checks. For non halflings:

Half orc, Dwarf, Wood Elf or Human.

Half Orcs and Wood Elves gain strength bonuses. So they make better damage dealers.

Dwarves gain a Con boost, which is always a good thing. Fast movement offsets dwarven slowness.

Humans gain a bonus feat.

For a Halfling Monk, I would recommend making a "Flanking buddy/Can't Touch Me" type. A High Dex score, High Wisdom, and decent con/strength scores combined with Dodge and Mobility would let you maneuver your way into flanks and other advantageous positions. Just make sure you get a quarterstaff (or another monk weapon) enhanced with damage boosters like flaming and shocking, for extra damage against creatures that your unarmed strikes can't hurt.

Also, consider taking 4 levels of Fighter for Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Weapon Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning) AND Versatile Unarmed Strike. (If you have a Players Handbook 2.) You'll have to waste a feat on improved unarmed strike, but the boost in damage won't hurt your character.
CSHunt68
11-15-07, 09:58 AM That's an illegal stat buy. You have 28 points, to be spent as the DMG specifies. Then factor in the racial mods.
As a halfling, that build would cost you:
Str 18 = 16
Dex 12 = 4
Con 14 = 6
Int 10 = 2
Wis 12 = 4
Cha 8 = 0
32 points.
TWG_Prometheus
11-15-07, 04:59 PM I'm not sure that I'd make a halfling monk either, but there are a number of advantages...

The first thing I'd do is forget about trip attacks and grapple attacks. It just isn't what your character will be trying to do. He's not going to be good at them anyway. For feats, I'd go with the Stunning Fist feat line with the expansion from PHBII that allows you to sacrifice stunning fist attempts for additional fire damage on your punches.

If possible, get Deadly Defense for another 1d6 of damage and then take Improved Natural Attack for a size category boost at level 6.

Even without a Strength modifier, you're looking at 2d6+1d8 damage from each of your punches. A human with a similar build would get 4d6 for the same build path but would likely have a harder time hitting given the larger size.

I'd use something like this as a starting point:

Halfling Monk
Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Monk 1: Stunning Fist, Deadly Defense
Monk 2: Fiery Fist (feat name?)
Monk 3: Weapon Finesse
Monk 4:
Monk 5:
Monk 6: Improved Natural Attack, Ki Blast (feat name?)

The progression until level 3 would be awful since Weapon Finesse has that absurd +1 BAB requirement on it, but as soon as you hit level 3, you'd be up to +5/+5 to hit for 1d6+1d4 damage on the rounds where you have fiery fist going. Use Deadly Defense to go to 2d6+1d4 when you have a significant combat advantage like flanking or are facing easy-to-hit opponents.

I'd note that such a build is still fairly suboptimal, but going this path, or a similar one, is the best I can really see happening with a halfling. Consider skipping Weapon Finesse and the 18 Dex for 12 Strength, 16 Dexterity and Weapon Focus. (Hm...put 2 points into Intelligence to lead into Combat Expertise so Deadly Defense doesn't set you back as bad...that sounds better.)

As others have said, consider jumping out into Fighter for Weapon Specialization. Doing that would require a prestige class in order to evade taking an experience penalty. Monk 3/Fighter 4 is probably workable and would free up feats.
bitznarf
11-15-07, 05:26 PM A Drunken Pious Templar of Zouken? Would this stretch the feats too far?
Sieylianna
11-15-07, 05:46 PM I was planning on making a halfling monk that will eventually be a drunken master

Do you have a known method of access to drunken master? If not, I'd seriously consider a different approach, since the campaign is winding down.

Ed
KarmaInferno
11-15-07, 05:48 PM He probably does not - in his other thread, he indicated he didn't know what access was, what ARs were, or what a meta-org was.

-karma
Hariman
11-16-07, 12:38 AM Personally, I think that Improved Natural Attack isn't all that good.

You really only gain a point or two of damage out of it for a small character.

Deadly Defense and Combat Expertise would be good, BUT you'd have to get a 13 INT. That would likely stretch the ability points too far.

I think that there is a feat in the PHB 2 that cuts the penalty for attacking defensively in half. (-2 instead of -4)

Also, you can't alternate levels of monk and fighter due to the multiclassing restrictions on monks. You'd have to go fighter 4 then monk3 or monk3 then fighter 4.
paigeoliver
11-18-07, 05:07 PM I would skip the halfling monk. I would really skip the halfling monk as a drunken master. It just really isn't very good. It is one of those things that leaps out at players because of the name. But it isn't good, and you would probably never find access anyway.

You can get a similar but far more effective halfling by going with a Daring Outlaw build (Rogue/Swashbuckler, two weapon fighting with the Daring Outlaw feat). It has more armor class, a lot more damage, better attack rolls, and more skill points. All while filling that same role that the halfling monk would.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
yobtar 11-14-07, 05:24 PM	I was planning on making a halfling monk that will eventually be a drunken master I was going to start my stats at(maybe) 16 str 14 dex 14 con 10 int 12 wis 8 cha is that a good start?
bitznarf 11-14-07, 05:47 PM	What is your design goal? Ie. what do you want your PC to be able to do? What sort of a character concept do you want to work with? Note that small sized PCs make poor trippers and grapplers.
yobtar 11-14-07, 06:25 PM	like i said i thought about eventually a drunken master prestige kind of a support damage dealer of sorts. how come the halflings don't make good monks? i would think the size they can get the low center of gravity If not a halfling what would you suggest?
Hariman 11-14-07, 07:06 PM	like i said i thought about eventually a drunken master prestige kind of a support damage dealer of sorts. how come the halflings don't make good monks? i would think the size they can get the low center of gravity If not a halfling what would you suggest? Forget any realism with a "low center of gravity". D&D mechanics replace reality. The greatest flaw of a small monk is that it becomes even harder to do damage and you take penalties to grapples and trip checks. For non halflings: Half orc, Dwarf, Wood Elf or Human. Half Orcs and Wood Elves gain strength bonuses. So they make better damage dealers. Dwarves gain a Con boost, which is always a good thing. Fast movement offsets dwarven slowness. Humans gain a bonus feat. For a Halfling Monk, I would recommend making a "Flanking buddy/Can't Touch Me" type. A High Dex score, High Wisdom, and decent con/strength scores combined with Dodge and Mobility would let you maneuver your way into flanks and other advantageous positions. Just make sure you get a quarterstaff (or another monk weapon) enhanced with damage boosters like flaming and shocking, for extra damage against creatures that your unarmed strikes can't hurt. Also, consider taking 4 levels of Fighter for Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike), Weapon Specialization and Melee Weapon Mastery (Bludgeoning) AND Versatile Unarmed Strike. (If you have a Players Handbook 2.) You'll have to waste a feat on improved unarmed strike, but the boost in damage won't hurt your character.
CSHunt68 11-15-07, 09:58 AM	That's an illegal stat buy. You have 28 points, to be spent as the DMG specifies. Then factor in the racial mods. As a halfling, that build would cost you: Str 18 = 16 Dex 12 = 4 Con 14 = 6 Int 10 = 2 Wis 12 = 4 Cha 8 = 0 32 points.
TWG_Prometheus 11-15-07, 04:59 PM	I'm not sure that I'd make a halfling monk either, but there are a number of advantages... The first thing I'd do is forget about trip attacks and grapple attacks. It just isn't what your character will be trying to do. He's not going to be good at them anyway. For feats, I'd go with the Stunning Fist feat line with the expansion from PHBII that allows you to sacrifice stunning fist attempts for additional fire damage on your punches. If possible, get Deadly Defense for another 1d6 of damage and then take Improved Natural Attack for a size category boost at level 6. Even without a Strength modifier, you're looking at 2d6+1d8 damage from each of your punches. A human with a similar build would get 4d6 for the same build path but would likely have a harder time hitting given the larger size. I'd use something like this as a starting point: Halfling Monk Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 Monk 1: Stunning Fist, Deadly Defense Monk 2: Fiery Fist (feat name?) Monk 3: Weapon Finesse Monk 4: Monk 5: Monk 6: Improved Natural Attack, Ki Blast (feat name?) The progression until level 3 would be awful since Weapon Finesse has that absurd +1 BAB requirement on it, but as soon as you hit level 3, you'd be up to +5/+5 to hit for 1d6+1d4 damage on the rounds where you have fiery fist going. Use Deadly Defense to go to 2d6+1d4 when you have a significant combat advantage like flanking or are facing easy-to-hit opponents. I'd note that such a build is still fairly suboptimal, but going this path, or a similar one, is the best I can really see happening with a halfling. Consider skipping Weapon Finesse and the 18 Dex for 12 Strength, 16 Dexterity and Weapon Focus. (Hm...put 2 points into Intelligence to lead into Combat Expertise so Deadly Defense doesn't set you back as bad...that sounds better.) As others have said, consider jumping out into Fighter for Weapon Specialization. Doing that would require a prestige class in order to evade taking an experience penalty. Monk 3/Fighter 4 is probably workable and would free up feats.
bitznarf 11-15-07, 05:26 PM	A Drunken Pious Templar of Zouken? Would this stretch the feats too far?
Sieylianna 11-15-07, 05:46 PM	I was planning on making a halfling monk that will eventually be a drunken master Do you have a known method of access to drunken master? If not, I'd seriously consider a different approach, since the campaign is winding down. Ed
KarmaInferno 11-15-07, 05:48 PM	He probably does not - in his other thread, he indicated he didn't know what access was, what ARs were, or what a meta-org was. -karma
Hariman 11-16-07, 12:38 AM	Personally, I think that Improved Natural Attack isn't all that good. You really only gain a point or two of damage out of it for a small character. Deadly Defense and Combat Expertise would be good, BUT you'd have to get a 13 INT. That would likely stretch the ability points too far. I think that there is a feat in the PHB 2 that cuts the penalty for attacking defensively in half. (-2 instead of -4) Also, you can't alternate levels of monk and fighter due to the multiclassing restrictions on monks. You'd have to go fighter 4 then monk3 or monk3 then fighter 4.
paigeoliver 11-18-07, 05:07 PM	I would skip the halfling monk. I would really skip the halfling monk as a drunken master. It just really isn't very good. It is one of those things that leaps out at players because of the name. But it isn't good, and you would probably never find access anyway. You can get a similar but far more effective halfling by going with a Daring Outlaw build (Rogue/Swashbuckler, two weapon fighting with the Daring Outlaw feat). It has more armor class, a lot more damage, better attack rolls, and more skill points. All while filling that same role that the halfling monk would.