Nightsong Enforcer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Nightsong Enforcer [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
myshkingfh
07-09-07, 12:22 PM To become a NSE (which is NONC, right?) must one have specific access, or may one take the level if one is a member of any thieves guild meta-org?
mregecko
07-09-07, 01:43 PM Must have specific access.

It's in the LGCS if I remember correctly.

I've seen I think 3 mods that give access to it, I played at least one of them with the right character. :-P

It's a really nice dip for +1d6 sneak at first level...

-- Gecko
myshkingfh
07-09-07, 05:13 PM And full BAB no less. But as far as you know, no meta-org grants access? I was considering joining a thieves guild, but if its not going to get me NSE access, well, I think it doesn't make a lot of economic sense in character.
bitznarf
07-09-07, 05:20 PM There are some that grant access. The Dusk Lash in Zeif offer it but require residency if I recall correctly.
awroe
07-09-07, 05:21 PM And full BAB no less. But as far as you know, no meta-org grants access? I was considering joining a thieves guild, but if its not going to get me NSE access, well, I think it doesn't make a lot of economic sense in character.

Many thieves guilds do offer access (e.g. the Wrecker's Guild in Onnwal), but it has to specifically say in the Meta-Org book.
myshkingfh
07-09-07, 06:32 PM my prospective guild won't tell me anything until I join. There's is no info in the metaorg book!
Mommy was an Orc
07-09-07, 07:03 PM Just as a point - in many ways, with retraining and Daring Outlaw, Swashbuckler can have many of the same general qualities as a Nightsong Enforcer, but without the access troubles.
myshkingfh
07-09-07, 07:43 PM That's a pretty good point. Daring outlaw picks up the extra d6 I'd get at Rogue 5 and iirc, provides weapon, er, whepon finesse for free, allowing me to retrain into spiked chain focus and take EWM.

Here I am now:
rogue - improved init
diviner - scribe scroll
rogue - EWP Spiked Chain +d6
fighter - Whepon Finesse
rogue
rogue - dodge +d6
fighter - mobility

then I could...
Swash - whepon finesse, retrain whepon finesse to whepon focus, BAB+6/+1
EWM - Flurry of strikes, retrain mobility to daring outlaw?
Swash X?
Mommy was an Orc
07-09-07, 07:45 PM Well, if you have Diviner 1, you probably also want to strongly consider adding 4 levels of Unseen Seer into the mix for False Life, Blink, Grave Strike, etc...
bitznarf
07-09-07, 07:46 PM You wouldn't have qualified for Daring Outlaw at the time you took mobility, so that is a no go.
myshkingfh
07-09-07, 10:15 PM Well, if you have Diviner 1, you probably also want to strongly consider adding 4 levels of Unseen Seer into the mix for False Life, Blink, Grave Strike, etc...

At this point it didn't seem worth punting on the BAB, since I'll never be a good spell caster. If USS were available when I started the character, that would have been the goal the whole time :(

You wouldn't have qualified for Daring Outlaw at the time you took mobility, so that is a no go.

I was listing the order and timing from memory at work, I'll have to revisit the feat timing and reread the feat.
Mommy was an Orc
07-09-07, 11:48 PM At this point it didn't seem worth punting on the BAB, since I'll never be a good spell caster. If USS were available when I started the character, that would have been the goal the whole time :(

The goal isn't to be a great spell caster. It is to be able to cast Blink on round 1, then go sneak attack your opponents.
myshkingfh
07-10-07, 09:59 AM The goal isn't to be a great spell caster. It is to be able to cast Blink on round 1, then go sneak attack your opponents.

But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above?
Mommy was an Orc
07-10-07, 10:50 AM But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above?

You're not just casting Blink, you're casting False Life(+10 on average means your 5 levels of Wizard/Unseen Seer are really d8 hit dice, not d4 - add practiced spellcaster and they turn into d9 hit dice) and Grave Strike also. You can pick up Arcane Strike as a feat choice.

Also, a lot of people miss this, but Unseen Seer is a +3/4 BAB, not a +2/4 BAB move.

Finally, Blink from a Wand tends to be expensive, assuming you get access in the first place. Do you really want to be spending 220 gp per combat to do this?
Potmos
07-10-07, 11:10 AM The Duchy of Urnst has a metaorg that gives access, though it requires spending influence points to get into the metaorg. Said influence points usually come about from playing DoU mods.

Here in Ket, we have slightly modified access to NE through one of our military metaorgs. The modification is that you must not be chaotic. (In Ket we don't mind if you're evil -- just be Lawful about it.)

Eventually, after a session or two of Red Hand, my thug/goon rogue should have enough XP to be able to finally pick up his first level in Nightsong Enforcer.

Potmos
(aka: Kailen, devout follower of Kuroth, who hopes to one day get his hands on the Quill of Kuroth and then it's payback time. There's a really long list of names and things that need to be crossed out, and the Quill is the perfect tool for the job.)
bitznarf
07-10-07, 11:51 AM But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above?
Unseen Seer also gives some sneak attack progression.
jstorrie
07-10-07, 12:58 PM Nightsong Enforcer does grant Opportunist, which I think is its biggest draw (though it comes in late.) More useful, in my opinion, for a Fighter/Monk tripper than a Fighter/Rogue; Fighter/Rogue types ought to be going either Unseen Seer or Daring Outlaw.
myshkingfh
07-10-07, 01:04 PM The Duchy of Urnst has a metaorg that gives access, though it requires spending influence points to get into the metaorg. Said influence points usually come about from playing DoU mods.

Sweet! I'm moving there in September. I have no idea, though, if anyone plays anywhere near Ashland or Medford OR.

In regard to the USS levels, would you guys suggest taking them before, after, during or instead of the whole Swash, EWM, NSE, Ranger (?) route? I would think that the next two levels should be Swash and EWM for the two extra attacks and extra d6 of sneak. Then you'd do 5 levels of USS?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
myshkingfh 07-09-07, 12:22 PM	To become a NSE (which is NONC, right?) must one have specific access, or may one take the level if one is a member of any thieves guild meta-org?
mregecko 07-09-07, 01:43 PM	Must have specific access. It's in the LGCS if I remember correctly. I've seen I think 3 mods that give access to it, I played at least one of them with the right character. :-P It's a really nice dip for +1d6 sneak at first level... -- Gecko
myshkingfh 07-09-07, 05:13 PM	And full BAB no less. But as far as you know, no meta-org grants access? I was considering joining a thieves guild, but if its not going to get me NSE access, well, I think it doesn't make a lot of economic sense in character.
bitznarf 07-09-07, 05:20 PM	There are some that grant access. The Dusk Lash in Zeif offer it but require residency if I recall correctly.
awroe 07-09-07, 05:21 PM	And full BAB no less. But as far as you know, no meta-org grants access? I was considering joining a thieves guild, but if its not going to get me NSE access, well, I think it doesn't make a lot of economic sense in character. Many thieves guilds do offer access (e.g. the Wrecker's Guild in Onnwal), but it has to specifically say in the Meta-Org book.
myshkingfh 07-09-07, 06:32 PM	my prospective guild won't tell me anything until I join. There's is no info in the metaorg book!
Mommy was an Orc 07-09-07, 07:03 PM	Just as a point - in many ways, with retraining and Daring Outlaw, Swashbuckler can have many of the same general qualities as a Nightsong Enforcer, but without the access troubles.
myshkingfh 07-09-07, 07:43 PM	That's a pretty good point. Daring outlaw picks up the extra d6 I'd get at Rogue 5 and iirc, provides weapon, er, whepon finesse for free, allowing me to retrain into spiked chain focus and take EWM. Here I am now: rogue - improved init diviner - scribe scroll rogue - EWP Spiked Chain +d6 fighter - Whepon Finesse rogue rogue - dodge +d6 fighter - mobility then I could... Swash - whepon finesse, retrain whepon finesse to whepon focus, BAB+6/+1 EWM - Flurry of strikes, retrain mobility to daring outlaw? Swash X?
Mommy was an Orc 07-09-07, 07:45 PM	Well, if you have Diviner 1, you probably also want to strongly consider adding 4 levels of Unseen Seer into the mix for False Life, Blink, Grave Strike, etc...
bitznarf 07-09-07, 07:46 PM	You wouldn't have qualified for Daring Outlaw at the time you took mobility, so that is a no go.
myshkingfh 07-09-07, 10:15 PM	Well, if you have Diviner 1, you probably also want to strongly consider adding 4 levels of Unseen Seer into the mix for False Life, Blink, Grave Strike, etc... At this point it didn't seem worth punting on the BAB, since I'll never be a good spell caster. If USS were available when I started the character, that would have been the goal the whole time :( You wouldn't have qualified for Daring Outlaw at the time you took mobility, so that is a no go. I was listing the order and timing from memory at work, I'll have to revisit the feat timing and reread the feat.
Mommy was an Orc 07-09-07, 11:48 PM	At this point it didn't seem worth punting on the BAB, since I'll never be a good spell caster. If USS were available when I started the character, that would have been the goal the whole time :( The goal isn't to be a great spell caster. It is to be able to cast Blink on round 1, then go sneak attack your opponents.
myshkingfh 07-10-07, 09:59 AM	The goal isn't to be a great spell caster. It is to be able to cast Blink on round 1, then go sneak attack your opponents. But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above?
Mommy was an Orc 07-10-07, 10:50 AM	But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above? You're not just casting Blink, you're casting False Life(+10 on average means your 5 levels of Wizard/Unseen Seer are really d8 hit dice, not d4 - add practiced spellcaster and they turn into d9 hit dice) and Grave Strike also. You can pick up Arcane Strike as a feat choice. Also, a lot of people miss this, but Unseen Seer is a +3/4 BAB, not a +2/4 BAB move. Finally, Blink from a Wand tends to be expensive, assuming you get access in the first place. Do you really want to be spending 220 gp per combat to do this?
Potmos 07-10-07, 11:10 AM	The Duchy of Urnst has a metaorg that gives access, though it requires spending influence points to get into the metaorg. Said influence points usually come about from playing DoU mods. Here in Ket, we have slightly modified access to NE through one of our military metaorgs. The modification is that you must not be chaotic. (In Ket we don't mind if you're evil -- just be Lawful about it.) Eventually, after a session or two of Red Hand, my thug/goon rogue should have enough XP to be able to finally pick up his first level in Nightsong Enforcer. Potmos (aka: Kailen, devout follower of Kuroth, who hopes to one day get his hands on the Quill of Kuroth and then it's payback time. There's a really long list of names and things that need to be crossed out, and the Quill is the perfect tool for the job.)
bitznarf 07-10-07, 11:51 AM	But I want to take four levels of USS just to do that? It seems to me that it's more valuable to get the two extra attacks per round from getting bab6 and Flurry of Strikes, and then get the extra sneak attack damage from Swashbuckler and/or NSE. I also like the idea of taking a ranger level for the normal ranger benefits, but also to use wands and scrolls of ranger spells. Also, couldn't I buy a wand of Blink and do all of the above? Unseen Seer also gives some sneak attack progression.
jstorrie 07-10-07, 12:58 PM	Nightsong Enforcer does grant Opportunist, which I think is its biggest draw (though it comes in late.) More useful, in my opinion, for a Fighter/Monk tripper than a Fighter/Rogue; Fighter/Rogue types ought to be going either Unseen Seer or Daring Outlaw.
myshkingfh 07-10-07, 01:04 PM	The Duchy of Urnst has a metaorg that gives access, though it requires spending influence points to get into the metaorg. Said influence points usually come about from playing DoU mods. Sweet! I'm moving there in September. I have no idea, though, if anyone plays anywhere near Ashland or Medford OR. In regard to the USS levels, would you guys suggest taking them before, after, during or instead of the whole Swash, EWM, NSE, Ranger (?) route? I would think that the next two levels should be Swash and EWM for the two extra attacks and extra d6 of sneak. Then you'd do 5 levels of USS?