Non Open, Non Close [Archive] - Wizards Community

Non Open, Non Close [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
RavenLoft_Story
06-01-07, 02:21 PM I'm new at LG and trying to make a few caracters but when I look up what I want to do, I often end up with feats, classes or spells that simply aren't listed at all in the Campaign sourcebook. What am I supposed to do if I want a feat/class/spell etc that is not closed nor open?

Exemples I remember :
Disciple of the eye (RDr)
Dracolexi (RDr)
Dragon wings (RDr) (for that one if you are human sorcerer and take Draconic heritage you meet the requisite)
Banor
06-01-07, 02:26 PM I'm pretty sure that you have to work for acces on these PrC or Feats. If the feat is only trainable at 1 (like Dragon Wings) i think that you might be able to retrain your level 1 when you'll get the AR that open it for you. Too bad i'd love to play a Dragonhearth mage but well i'm not too sure i want to go that deep into draconic heritage if im not sure that ill get the PrC :)
amnuxoll
06-01-07, 02:30 PM To get access to NONC feats, pclasses etc. you must petition your triad for a special mission. Some triads are more generous than others. So, you definitely can't count on it.

:AMN:
kenobi65
06-01-07, 03:14 PM To get access to NONC feats, pclasses etc. you must petition your triad for a special mission.

To give a more complete answer: there's fundamentally three ways that you can get access to a "NONC" rules item:

1) Gain access through adventure play (i.e., the AR you receive after playing an adventure specifically allows you to take it)

2) Gain access through membership in a metaorganization

3) Gain access via a special mission

#1 is problematic because it's fundamentally random (though sometimes the module's blurb, or region, may suggest that access to a particular item in that adventure is possible). And, sharing information about what items are on an AR is considered to be cheating.

#2 is far more predictable, but it's very limited -- each region can only give access to a limited number of rules items via metaorgs, and joining a metaorg in a region other than yours may be difficult (some regions require play in their region's modules before you can join certain metaorgs).

#3, in theory, could give access to just about any NONC item, but it's up to your triad to decide (and it may well take some time for them to have a special mission prepared).

In short: it's unwise to plan a PC build around a NONC item, unless you have a fairly certain way to gain that access.
RavenLoft_Story
06-01-07, 04:28 PM Thank you for the precision guys and oh well, I suppose I'll have to create another caracter within the open stuff limit.
JohnduBois
06-04-07, 09:04 AM I'm pretty sure that you have to work for acces on these PrC or Feats. If the feat is only trainable at 1 (like Dragon Wings) i think that you might be able to retrain your level 1 when you'll get the AR that open it for you. Too bad i'd love to play a Dragonhearth mage but well i'm not too sure i want to go that deep into draconic heritage if im not sure that ill get the PrC :)

Dragonheart Mage is available via a metaorg in the County of Urnst.
Mocoso
06-04-07, 03:56 PM You're not allowed to discuss NONC. NONC does not exist. Please do not talk about NONC.

lol
RedKnightofKet
06-04-07, 05:27 PM You're not allowed to discuss NONC. NONC does not exist. Please do not talk about NONC.

lol

Oh, quit complaining. You're allowed to talk about this stuff - I haven't seen the Circle or WOTC come down on anyone and cut off conversation.

However, if you want to have a conversation about what to call things that aren't Open or Closed, don't be surprised if people get annoyed with that. It doesn't accomplish anything.
bitznarf
06-05-07, 12:37 AM I believe Mocoso was making a joke with a reference to Fight Club; which, by the way, doesn't exist.
RedKnightofKet
06-05-07, 01:12 PM I believe Mocoso was making a joke with a reference to Fight Club; which, by the way, doesn't exist.

It might be a reference to something, but he missed the boat if it is a Fight Club reference. It's: "Rule number one: You do not talk about Fight Club. Rule number two: you DO NOT TALK about Fight Club." Its existence isn't denied, just that you don't talk about it... like we are...uh oh....
EvilPenguinKing
06-20-07, 08:19 PM What about the Suel Arcanamach?
kenobi65
06-20-07, 09:23 PM What about the Suel Arcanamach?

Not on either the Open nor Closed list, correct?

Say the answer with me, folks:

"Open for you if you have campaign documentation."
_metz_
06-20-07, 10:36 PM Not on either the Open nor Closed list, correct?

Say the answer with me, folks:

"Open for you if you have campaign documentation."

More you say it, the less they understand apparently.

Maybe we should get a streaming text at the bottom of the forums that can only be disabled if you best a quiz on the LGCS so people have to read it BEFORE asking questions...

(I'm up for it)
JohnduBois
06-20-07, 10:44 PM More you say it, the less they understand apparently.

Maybe we should get a streaming text at the bottom of the forums that can only be disabled if you best a quiz on the LGCS so people have to read it BEFORE asking questions...

(I'm up for it)

I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM...
_metz_
06-20-07, 11:21 PM I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM...

Auto surprise IS the Devil after all.
Frumpkis
06-21-07, 01:24 AM I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM...

To be fair, the encounter distance rules are REALLY thinly sketched out and hard to understand.

("So let's see.....your spot/listen versus their hide/move silently for you to notice them.......then their spot/listen versus your hide/move silently for them to notice you.....and there's a -1 for every 10 ft. of distance.....then you take the f(x) and divide by log 10......*head explodes*)
_metz_
06-21-07, 01:30 AM To be fair, the encounter distance rules are REALLY thinly sketched out and hard to understand.

("So let's see.....your spot/listen versus their hide/move silently for you to notice them.......then their spot/listen versus your hide/move silently for them to notice you.....and there's a -1 for every 10 ft. of distance.....then you take the f(x) and divide by log 10......*head explodes*)

I am sure you gotta factor Pi, or the universal Gravitational Constant in there somewhere...
Britt
06-21-07, 03:43 AM Then multiply by (e^distance in meters) and divide by (derivative of e^(distance in meters)).
pedr
06-21-07, 06:46 AM Then multiply by (e^distance in meters) and divide by (derivative of e^(distance in meters)).This is why law should be an undergraduate subject, like in the UK.

Lawyers shouldn't be able to think about e, or know how to express 'raise to the power of' without a superscript function.

Pedr, academic lawyer with A-levels in Maths and Physics :)
_metz_
06-21-07, 07:03 AM This is why law should be an undergraduate subject, like in the UK.

Lawyers shouldn't be able to think about e, or know how to express 'raise to the power of' without a superscript function.

Pedr, academic lawyer with A-levels in Maths and Physics :)

Lol, Our A-level equivalent in Australia USED to have US 2nd year Physics, Maths, English and Economics. Its been going downhill of late though.
Timlagor
06-21-07, 05:00 PM What I'd like to require is that all lawyers (and politicians, and reporters, and.. everyone else) be required to take a course in probability and statistics.

Britt: are you sure you didn't mean to multiply by (distance-in-meters * e^distance-in-meters)?
Britt
06-21-07, 05:32 PM Britt: are you sure you didn't mean to multiply by (distance-in-meters * e^distance-in-meters)?
What I typed should come out to exactly the same thing as before the operation, if memory of mathematical oddities serves me.
TheBlackFlail
06-21-07, 05:57 PM The natural exponential function e^ax, is a non-trivial eigenfunction of the derivative operator, with eigenvalue a. Therefore multiplication by e^x coupled with division by d/dx e^x is the same as the identity operator for multiplication.
pedr
06-21-07, 06:22 PM The natural exponential function e^ax, is a non-trivial eigenfunction of the derivative operator, with eigenvalue a. Therefore multiplication by e^x coupled with division by d/dx e^x is the same as the identity operator for multiplication.

:whatsthis

:mymy:

:twitch:

:headexplo

Did this thread have a topic, incidentally? :D (Checks... hmm, no, not really)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavenLoft_Story 06-01-07, 02:21 PM	I'm new at LG and trying to make a few caracters but when I look up what I want to do, I often end up with feats, classes or spells that simply aren't listed at all in the Campaign sourcebook. What am I supposed to do if I want a feat/class/spell etc that is not closed nor open? Exemples I remember : Disciple of the eye (RDr) Dracolexi (RDr) Dragon wings (RDr) (for that one if you are human sorcerer and take Draconic heritage you meet the requisite)
Banor 06-01-07, 02:26 PM	I'm pretty sure that you have to work for acces on these PrC or Feats. If the feat is only trainable at 1 (like Dragon Wings) i think that you might be able to retrain your level 1 when you'll get the AR that open it for you. Too bad i'd love to play a Dragonhearth mage but well i'm not too sure i want to go that deep into draconic heritage if im not sure that ill get the PrC :)
amnuxoll 06-01-07, 02:30 PM	To get access to NONC feats, pclasses etc. you must petition your triad for a special mission. Some triads are more generous than others. So, you definitely can't count on it. :AMN:
kenobi65 06-01-07, 03:14 PM	To get access to NONC feats, pclasses etc. you must petition your triad for a special mission. To give a more complete answer: there's fundamentally three ways that you can get access to a "NONC" rules item: 1) Gain access through adventure play (i.e., the AR you receive after playing an adventure specifically allows you to take it) 2) Gain access through membership in a metaorganization 3) Gain access via a special mission #1 is problematic because it's fundamentally random (though sometimes the module's blurb, or region, may suggest that access to a particular item in that adventure is possible). And, sharing information about what items are on an AR is considered to be cheating. #2 is far more predictable, but it's very limited -- each region can only give access to a limited number of rules items via metaorgs, and joining a metaorg in a region other than yours may be difficult (some regions require play in their region's modules before you can join certain metaorgs). #3, in theory, could give access to just about any NONC item, but it's up to your triad to decide (and it may well take some time for them to have a special mission prepared). In short: it's unwise to plan a PC build around a NONC item, unless you have a fairly certain way to gain that access.
RavenLoft_Story 06-01-07, 04:28 PM	Thank you for the precision guys and oh well, I suppose I'll have to create another caracter within the open stuff limit.
JohnduBois 06-04-07, 09:04 AM	I'm pretty sure that you have to work for acces on these PrC or Feats. If the feat is only trainable at 1 (like Dragon Wings) i think that you might be able to retrain your level 1 when you'll get the AR that open it for you. Too bad i'd love to play a Dragonhearth mage but well i'm not too sure i want to go that deep into draconic heritage if im not sure that ill get the PrC :) Dragonheart Mage is available via a metaorg in the County of Urnst.
Mocoso 06-04-07, 03:56 PM	You're not allowed to discuss NONC. NONC does not exist. Please do not talk about NONC. lol
RedKnightofKet 06-04-07, 05:27 PM	You're not allowed to discuss NONC. NONC does not exist. Please do not talk about NONC. lol Oh, quit complaining. You're allowed to talk about this stuff - I haven't seen the Circle or WOTC come down on anyone and cut off conversation. However, if you want to have a conversation about what to call things that aren't Open or Closed, don't be surprised if people get annoyed with that. It doesn't accomplish anything.
bitznarf 06-05-07, 12:37 AM	I believe Mocoso was making a joke with a reference to Fight Club; which, by the way, doesn't exist.
RedKnightofKet 06-05-07, 01:12 PM	I believe Mocoso was making a joke with a reference to Fight Club; which, by the way, doesn't exist. It might be a reference to something, but he missed the boat if it is a Fight Club reference. It's: "Rule number one: You do not talk about Fight Club. Rule number two: you DO NOT TALK about Fight Club." Its existence isn't denied, just that you don't talk about it... like we are...uh oh....
EvilPenguinKing 06-20-07, 08:19 PM	What about the Suel Arcanamach?
kenobi65 06-20-07, 09:23 PM	What about the Suel Arcanamach? Not on either the Open nor Closed list, correct? Say the answer with me, folks: "Open for you if you have campaign documentation."
_metz_ 06-20-07, 10:36 PM	Not on either the Open nor Closed list, correct? Say the answer with me, folks: "Open for you if you have campaign documentation." More you say it, the less they understand apparently. Maybe we should get a streaming text at the bottom of the forums that can only be disabled if you best a quiz on the LGCS so people have to read it BEFORE asking questions... (I'm up for it)
JohnduBois 06-20-07, 10:44 PM	More you say it, the less they understand apparently. Maybe we should get a streaming text at the bottom of the forums that can only be disabled if you best a quiz on the LGCS so people have to read it BEFORE asking questions... (I'm up for it) I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM...
_metz_ 06-20-07, 11:21 PM	I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM... Auto surprise IS the Devil after all.
Frumpkis 06-21-07, 01:24 AM	I'd rather give DMs a test making sure they know about things like how to determine encounter distance when not explicitly told in-mod (e.g. Spot and Listen opposed by Hide and Move Silently, not "they surprise you because the mod didn't say anything different") before they're allowed to DM... To be fair, the encounter distance rules are REALLY thinly sketched out and hard to understand. ("So let's see.....your spot/listen versus their hide/move silently for you to notice them.......then their spot/listen versus your hide/move silently for them to notice you.....and there's a -1 for every 10 ft. of distance.....then you take the f(x) and divide by log 10......head explodes)
_metz_ 06-21-07, 01:30 AM	To be fair, the encounter distance rules are REALLY thinly sketched out and hard to understand. ("So let's see.....your spot/listen versus their hide/move silently for you to notice them.......then their spot/listen versus your hide/move silently for them to notice you.....and there's a -1 for every 10 ft. of distance.....then you take the f(x) and divide by log 10......head explodes) I am sure you gotta factor Pi, or the universal Gravitational Constant in there somewhere...
Britt 06-21-07, 03:43 AM	Then multiply by (e^distance in meters) and divide by (derivative of e^(distance in meters)).
pedr 06-21-07, 06:46 AM	Then multiply by (e^distance in meters) and divide by (derivative of e^(distance in meters)).This is why law should be an undergraduate subject, like in the UK. Lawyers shouldn't be able to think about e, or know how to express 'raise to the power of' without a superscript function. Pedr, academic lawyer with A-levels in Maths and Physics :)
_metz_ 06-21-07, 07:03 AM	This is why law should be an undergraduate subject, like in the UK. Lawyers shouldn't be able to think about e, or know how to express 'raise to the power of' without a superscript function. Pedr, academic lawyer with A-levels in Maths and Physics :) Lol, Our A-level equivalent in Australia USED to have US 2nd year Physics, Maths, English and Economics. Its been going downhill of late though.
Timlagor 06-21-07, 05:00 PM	What I'd like to require is that all lawyers (and politicians, and reporters, and.. everyone else) be required to take a course in probability and statistics. Britt: are you sure you didn't mean to multiply by (distance-in-meters * e^distance-in-meters)?
Britt 06-21-07, 05:32 PM	Britt: are you sure you didn't mean to multiply by (distance-in-meters * e^distance-in-meters)? What I typed should come out to exactly the same thing as before the operation, if memory of mathematical oddities serves me.
TheBlackFlail 06-21-07, 05:57 PM	The natural exponential function e^ax, is a non-trivial eigenfunction of the derivative operator, with eigenvalue a. Therefore multiplication by e^x coupled with division by d/dx e^x is the same as the identity operator for multiplication.
pedr 06-21-07, 06:22 PM	The natural exponential function e^ax, is a non-trivial eigenfunction of the derivative operator, with eigenvalue a. Therefore multiplication by e^x coupled with division by d/dx e^x is the same as the identity operator for multiplication. :whatsthis :mymy: :twitch: :headexplo Did this thread have a topic, incidentally? :D (Checks... hmm, no, not really)