Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boogahwoof 02-19-07, 11:45 PM	Ok i know theres alot of trip builds, but i need help on where to go with the wife's. She is currently 8th level and i know where shes going through 11th but after that i have no clue so help on feats and classes would be appriciated (all stats are after magical and level bumps) human str 18 dex 16 con 14 int 14 wis 9 cha 11 1st fighter ex weap prf spik chain - ex w foc sp ch 2nd fighter iron will 3rd fighter combat exp 4th fighter imp trip 5th fighter 6th fighter monkey grip combat casting 7th suel arcanamach 8th suel arcanamach 9th - 11th knight feat at 9th? (weap spe sp ch)? 11th-16th ? no clue ok heres why the build is the way it is, 1st level arcanamach gave her the ability to enlarge herself 1 day. she wields a large +1 spiked chain. 2nd level of archanamach gives 2 enlarges day and dispelling strike. the levels of knight are to get to level 3 so she has a 140 block of hampered terrain when enlarged. as i said where to go from there i have no clue maybe exotic weapons master but any suggestions i would love to hear
Vanadium 02-20-07, 10:23 AM	You build seems confusing. 1. Monkey Grip is a bad feat, especially bad here seeing as you can't benefit from the extra reach a larger spiked chain would give you. That, and monkey grip is a bad feat by itself. 2. You don't have Combat Reflexes. Combat Reflexes is largely what makes reach builds work. Why bother opening up all that area if you can't use it? Retrain Monkey Grip out for this. 3. You build seems to be illegal as it stands: you need 5 ranks in Spellcraft to get into your class, which a pure figher won't have until its 7th level, with your first Arcanamach level being at 8. As it is, if you have that focus there, you might as well take Exotic Weapon Master. If you don't, train away that focus.
DroidTrooper 02-20-07, 05:58 PM	1st, It doesn't look like you selected all 3 feats that you are due at level 1 as a human fighter. 2nd, Iron will is not a fighter feat (might be what you though you were getting at level 1 in which case you don't have a fighter2 feat.) 3rd, You are planning your build to end with odd numbers in Charisma and Wisdom, I'd recommend bump charisma to the next even (so you get a bonus spell). Tactically, every fighter in LG wants power attack. Not having it in the build till 9th is going to be pretty ugly. Tactically, I do not like monkey grip. But more to the point, unless you somehow know where you are going to get access to a MW large spiked chain I would not plan my build around getting one. Also, (While I have seen debate on this). I am not so sure a large(becoming huge when enlarged) spiked chain gives you any more reach than a regular spiked chain when enlarged. Though for disarming its useful. Tactically, weapon focus is a questionable feat if you don't need it as a pre-req to enter a prestige class. As you don't need monkey grip (and you have the spellcraft problem noted earlier) a level of hexblade is probably worthwhile (to open all those pesky skills up as class). Arcane resistance and mettle are worthwhile especially since you aren't dumping charisma entirely. As you are already a spell caster in this build. Dragon Disciple is a nice way to inflate your strength (and cast more too boot.) A single level of spellsword is probably worthwhile as well (net you +2fort/will and reducing your spell failure by 10% assuming you plan to wear armor. (You would have to get your charisma to 14 to get a bonus spell at level 2, but by level 10+ this should not be an issue.) As is a single level of Exotic Weapon master for the +2 to trip attempts. Lastly (personal peeve): (While I understand why it wasn't included as I can just see enemies falling prone to avoid attack) I personally find it difficult to justify striking an opponent when he's down to be within the 'knight's code of conduct.' I think its downright silly to build a knight designed to strike foes when they are down. Of course, I don't know how'll you play him. But on paper to me it doesn't mesh as well as I'd like and I think of myself is pretty liberal when it comes to multiclassing.
bitznarf 02-20-07, 06:05 PM	Tactically, I do not like monkey grip. But more to the point, unless you somehow know where you are going to get access to a MW large spiked chain I would not plan my build around getting one. I do believe that large size weapons are now open access per the new LGCS (other then those found on AR's). Pg. 26 All items may be of any size from Tiny to Large and of either normal or masterwork quality.
DroidTrooper 02-20-07, 06:19 PM	Nifty, I had not noticed that. I still would not recommend monkey grip though.
Mithreinmaethor 02-20-07, 06:55 PM	I am so glad we can buy large weapons now. Now I can have my Large ******* ******* that does 3d6 with reach and can trip and ready vs a charge. Makes me so happy
Haro 02-20-07, 08:45 PM	Now I can have my Large ******* ******* that does 3d6 with reach and can trip and ready vs a charge. Makes me so happy Is that a ***** joke? :) Joe Edit: I didn't know the male member got ****'d out!
clannagh 02-20-07, 11:46 PM	Minor technical point guys. Reach weapons only provide reach for an appropriately sized creature. Monkey Grip or not .. if you a medium creature ONLY a medium spiked chain provides reach. Sorry no 10' reach TWF with two small chains and no large chains with reach for extra damage. Stupid really but thats the rules.
boogahwoof 02-21-07, 12:14 AM	thx guys i didnt realize that about the build and the spellcraft skills, also the monkey grip ideas are very insightful i did make a mistake on her feats she does have combat reflexes. this was a way to get around the spellcraft req i came up with 1st fighter human imp init crea ex weap pro s.c. f 1st weap pro s.c. 2nd fighter 2nd f combat exp 3rd fighter level iron will 4th fighter 4th f improved trip 5th fighter 6th occult slayer (spellcraft) level combat casting this will allow for pre recs to suel arcanamach by 7th i thank all of you for your imputs and corrections where i failed
Renderer 02-21-07, 01:53 AM	Just a side question? Can you tell me where you are getting access to Suel Arcanamach? (assuming its a meta-org.)
boogahwoof 02-21-07, 03:29 AM	it is not through a meta org, it is on a ar i got in 2006 i do believe it is still playable. grants access to the class for tu,s spent reading the book
Potato Weasel 02-21-07, 08:08 AM	You might as well throw in a improved disarm, I mean, you'll already have an unholy bonus to your disarm through the enlargement, plus two hands, plus spiked chain. (+10) then, level 9 bab plus weapon focus (+20) and then add in your strength bonus or such, and whatever other things you feel like adding (armbands of might or such)and the -4 they have on the opposed attack roll for being prone, and you can easily disarm anything that tries to get near you, including things that have locked gauntlets. If you want to go in another direction, get something that'll help her in different situations where trip doesnt matter so much. (i'd also recomend getting more occult slayer so that you're immune to mind affecting affects.)
boogahwoof 02-21-07, 04:46 PM	thats true and appriciated, but as someone statedwith the whole prone thing and the knight class, it deff says something about not attacking a disarmed opponent in the knights code. i will try to abide by that as best as the build can
Mithreinmaethor 02-21-07, 06:07 PM	Is that a ***** joke? :) Joe Edit: I didn't know the male member got ****'d out! Ha ha. Actually I was just being facetious and didnt want to spell out my favorite tripping weapon.
Munkwunk 02-22-07, 05:48 PM	Minor technical point guys. Reach weapons only provide reach for an appropriately sized creature. Monkey Grip or not .. if you a medium creature ONLY a medium spiked chain provides reach. Sorry no 10' reach TWF with two small chains and no large chains with reach for extra damage. Stupid really but thats the rules. Where are you seeing this? From d20srd.org, I am seeing: Reach Weapons Glaives, guisarmes, lances, longspears, ranseurs, spiked chains, and whips are reach weapons. A reach weapon is a melee weapon that allows its wielder to strike at targets that aren’t adjacent to him or her. Most reach weapons double the wielder’s natural reach, meaning that a typical Small or Medium wielder of such a weapon can attack a creature 10 feet away, but not a creature in an adjacent square. A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away, but not adjacent creatures or creatures up to 10 feet away. and Inappropriately Sized Weapons A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative -2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a -4 nonproficiency penalty also applies. The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all. The only line which suggests you can't use the reach of an innapropriately sized weapon is this: A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size ...but that seems a lot more like an afterthought than a hard rule. Even so, by RAW there's nothing preventing a Small or Medium sized creature from using reach with an inappropriately sized weapon, only Large creatures (yes, this seems stupid and petty, too). It's true that wielding larger weapons (via Monkey Grip or otherwise) doesn't give you a +4 to Disarm/Sunder, nor does it provide you any additional reach, since all of those thigns are based off of your creature size and not the weapon size (though you could wield a Large-sized dagger two-handed and get a +4 two-handed bonus, heh...).
copper_wyrmling 02-22-07, 05:54 PM	Where are you seeing this? From d20srd.org, I am seeing: and The only line which suggests you can't use the reach of an innapropriately sized weapon is this: ...but that seems a lot more like an afterthought than a hard rule. Even so, by RAW there's nothing preventing a Small or Medium sized creature from using reach with an inappropriately sized weapon, only Large creatures (yes, this seems stupid and petty, too). The ruling is in the FAQ: How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the Monkey Grip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for each situation? A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach. An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon). A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further), and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away (as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach from the weapon. The Player’s Handbook isn’t as clear on this as it could be, although an example of reach in action on page 113 in the Player’s Handbook provides pretty strong support: “A typical Large character wielding a reach weapon of the appropriate size can attack a creature 15 or 20 feet away . . .” [italics added]. While this reference doesn’t mention the ability to wield a reach weapon larger than the appropriate size, allowing such a weapon to grant reach to its wielder is a reasonable extension of the spirit and intent of the rule. Incidentally, there's a new FAQ up...
Munkwunk 02-22-07, 06:01 PM	Curse that FAQ! Foiled again! Although it does still suggest a Medium-sized creature still gains reach with a Large-sized weapon. There goes my idea of hiding behind a shield and using Aid Another with a longspear, though...