Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 02:24 PM	I'm looking through this thing...and y'all seem to hate paladins. Obviously, that makes me want to play one all the more...can you throw out some builds for evaluation? My DM will positively hate you for it! (More fun for me)
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 02:29 PM	Paladin 4/Marshal 3/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Outcast Champion 5 Lots of charisma Synergies. Uses a Bastard Sword or Maul with Uncanny Blow.
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 02:31 PM	Paladin 4/Marshal 3/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Outcast Champion 5 Lots of charisma Synergies. Uses a Bastard Sword or Maul with Uncanny Blow. If you get a chance can you spell it out, stats/levels/feat/bumps ?
kenobi65 03-27-07, 02:31 PM	Hey, I love paladins. I even play one. It seems like a paladin-caster build would have to be a Charisma-based caster (rather than a wizard); paladins already suffer from MAD, and Int is almost always a dump-stat for them. Here's my paladin of Heironeous. I don't think he's particularly powerful, but he holds his own. Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 14 (+1 at 4th) 1: Paladin; Weapon Focus (longsword), Power Attack (recently retrained out for True Believer, to get into Pious Templar) 2: Paladin 3: Paladin; Nymph's Kiss (had AR access; a really nice feat) 4: Paladin; +1 Cha 5: Paladin 6: Paladin; Improved Toughness 7: Pious Templar Primary magic items are a +1 longsword, +2 full plate, +2 heavy steel shield (light fortification), gauntlets of ogre power, amulet of health, cloak of charisma, vest of resistance +1, and a medal (slotless) from a now-retired Verbobonc regional that acts as a Ring of Protection +1. I've got an AC of 26 now, which seems to be reasonably good. Mettle (Pious Templar class ability) has saved my butt once already -- very nice to be able to totally shrug off a Cloudkill. When I hit 8th (another module or two), I'll re-take Power Attack, and bump the Cha up again (which'll help all my saves, as well as add another 6 points to Lay on Hands). Looking forward to 9th for the free Weapon Specialization from Pious Templar; not sure yet what I'll do with the 9th level feat (Divine Vigor, maybe?)
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 02:33 PM	Hey, I love paladins. I even play one. It seems like any such build would have to be a Charisma-based caster (rather than a wizard); paladins already suffer from MAD, and Int is almost always a dump-stat for them. It's wide open...I haven't even decided...if you want to go Gish...if it's to be a Gish buffer or a secondary blaster when physically hitting/damaging a critter is too damned tough...for those tables that seem to be ALL non-casters.
vvincent 03-27-07, 02:36 PM	I personally love paladins. My primary PC (which I've been playing since Year 1) is a paladin. However, I don't have a typical (read: power-gamey) build, so others may not perfer this. He's a paladin of Rao (god of reason and diplomacy) and modelled after the character of Camaris from Tad Williams "Memory, Sorrow, and Thorn" trilogy. Owain Aneirin Llewelyn - Human (Oeridian) Pal 13 STR: 14 (18 w/belt of giant strength +4) DEX: 10 (12 w/gloves of dex +2) CON: 12 INT: 12 WIS: 14 CHA: 17 (21 w/cloak of charisma +4) Primary weapon: +1 cold iron holy sacred longsword Armor: +3 mithral full plate Shield: +1 heavy steel shield w/moderate fortification (Shield of Rockhall, for those from Verbobonc) Feats: Power Attack Mounted Combat Divine Might Extra Turning Leadership (Pal 11 cohort - read: squire) Weapon Focus (longsword) Paladin Mount: Celestial Griffon Various other magic items (+3 vest of resistance, Quaal's Feather Token: Whip, and so forth) He's not built for power-gaming, but for role-playing - and I have a blast with him because of the personality that has developed over the course of his adventures. He's had the Curse of the Voice (from Forgotten Echos), the various Marks (from the Greater Good series), and in general has progressed from a person of self-doubt (due to the annoying Voice in his head) to someone that has overcome obstacles and become a leader. I do not offer him as an example of how to build a paladin - just one take on how to play I'm looking through this thing...and y'all seem to hate paladins. Obviously, that makes me want to play one all the more...can you throw out some builds for evaluation? My DM will positively hate you for it! (More fun for me)
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 02:39 PM	If you get a chance can you spell it out, stats/levels/feat/bumps ? Probably something like this (changed slightly) Paladin 4/Fighter 4/Marshal 1/Exotic Weapon master 1/Outcast Champion 5 Half-Elf STR 16 DEX 12 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 8 CHA 15 1 Marshal Power Attack 2 Fighter: Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Maul/Elven Thinblade/Bastard Sword 3 Paladin: Weapon Focus: Maul/Elven Thinblade/Bastard Sword 4 Paladin: CHA +1 5 Paladin 6 Paladin: Divine Might 7 Fighter: Improved Bullrush 8 Exotic Weapon Master: CHA +1, Uncanny Blow 9 Outcast Champion: Shock Trooper 10 Outcast Champion 11 Outcast Champion 12 Outcast Champion: CHA +1, Extra Turning 13 Outcast Champion 14 Fighter 15 Fighter: Weapon Specialization, Melee Weapon Mastery
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 02:43 PM	I was also working on a Paladin Gish with Sacred Exorcist. It goes something like this. Paladin 2/Sorcerer 6/Spellsword 1/Eldritch Knight 4/Sacred Exorcist 2 You take Dismissal as one of your sorcerer spells to Qualify for Sacred Exorcist. The big reason for it is while you lose a BAB, you gain turn attempts and therefore can pick up Divine Might/Armor/Fortune at 15th.
Efekjek 03-27-07, 02:56 PM	Paladin 4/Marshal 3/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 1/Outcast Champion 5 Lots of charisma Synergies. Uses a Bastard Sword or Maul with Uncanny Blow. What're the pros and cons?
Jay_Ibero_911 03-27-07, 03:08 PM	Race:Human Alignment:Lawful Good (Kundo) STR-15 (8) DEX-10 (2) CON-14 (6) INT-10 (2) WIS-14 (6) CHA-12 (4) Lv1(Bard)Combat Focus, Power Attack(retrain to Skill Focus (Perform) at 6th) Lv2(Paladin) Lv3(Paladin)Devoted Performer Lv4(Paladin)+1 STR Lv5(Paladin) Lv6(Fighter)Divine Vigor, Power Attack Lv7(Fighter)Combat Stability Lv8(Fighter)+1 STR (XP Penalty) Lv9(Bard)Ironskin Chant Lv10(Fighter)Combat Vigor (XP Penalty) Lv11(Bard) Lv12(Seeker of the Song)Extra Music, +1 STR Lv13(Seeker of the Song) Lv14(Seeker of the Song) Lv15(Seeker of the Song)Extra Music This will probably be the "Paladin" build I go with if I ever do a paladin. Divine Vigor, Combat Vigor, and Ironskin Chant combine to make you pretty durable, and Seeker of the Song on the end just increases Versatility. Makes sense to be a devoted performer of Kundo, because Kundo is the god of music and defense. The XP penalties could be avoided, but that would result in delaying some feats by a level, as well as requiring retraining to get the right amount of skills at the right levels to qualify for Ironskin Chant and Seeker of the Song.
Alpha_Nerd 03-27-07, 03:09 PM	What're the pros and cons? Pros: Good Will Save on a fighter, Good Damage, Motivate Dex, Dilpomancer Cons: Poor Reflex Save, not much in combat besides power attacking with a 2-hander.
kenobi65 03-27-07, 03:20 PM	This will probably be the "Paladin" build I go with if I ever do a paladin. You're probably well aware that you'd need to switch alignments twice to make that build work? Start out non-lawful, switch to LG at 2nd level to take paladin, then switch back out somewhere between 6 and 9 to go back to bard. Legal, but definitely cheesy. :)
Qworg 03-27-07, 03:25 PM	I personally love paladins. My primary PC (which I've been playing since Year 1) is a paladin. :snip: He's not built for power-gaming, but for role-playing - and I have a blast with him because of the personality that has developed over the course of his adventures. He's had the Curse of the Voice (from Forgotten Echos), the various Marks (from the Greater Good series), and in general has progressed from a person of self-doubt (due to the annoying Voice in his head) to someone that has overcome obstacles and become a leader. I do not offer him as an example of how to build a paladin - just one take on how to play You forgot his most important title: PeasantSlayer!
Jay_Ibero_911 03-27-07, 03:28 PM	You're probably well aware that you'd need to switch alignments twice to make that build work? Start out non-lawful, switch to LG at 2nd level to take paladin, then switch back out somewhere between 6 and 9 to go back to bard. Legal, but definitely cheesy. :) Nope, only one alignment switch required. Devoted Performer lets you stay Lawful Good and and still take bard levels.
Nutation 03-27-07, 03:32 PM	You're probably well aware that you'd need to switch alignments twice to make that build work? Start out non-lawful, switch to LG at 2nd level to take paladin, then switch back out somewhere between 6 and 9 to go back to bard. Devoted Performer allows the lawful character to take bard at 9th.
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 03:50 PM	Hey, I love paladins. I even play one. It seems like a paladin-caster build would have to be a Charisma-based caster (rather than a wizard); paladins already suffer from MAD, and Int is almost always a dump-stat for them. Here's my paladin of Heironeous. I don't think he's particularly powerful, but he holds his own. Str 16 Dex 12 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 12 Cha 14 (+1 at 4th) 1: Paladin; Weapon Focus (longsword), Power Attack (recently retrained out for True Believer, to get into Pious Templar) 2: Paladin 3: Paladin; Nymph's Kiss (had AR access; a really nice feat) 4: Paladin; +1 Cha 5: Paladin 6: Paladin; Improved Toughness 7: Pious Templar Primary magic items are a +1 longsword, +2 full plate, +2 heavy steel shield (light fortification), gauntlets of ogre power, amulet of health, cloak of charisma, vest of resistance +1, and a medal (slotless) from a now-retired Verbobonc regional that acts as a Ring of Protection +1. I've got an AC of 26 now, which seems to be reasonably good. Mettle (Pious Templar class ability) has saved my butt once already -- very nice to be able to totally shrug off a Cloudkill. When I hit 8th (another module or two), I'll re-take Power Attack, and bump the Cha up again (which'll help all my saves, as well as add another 6 points to Lay on Hands). Looking forward to 9th for the free Weapon Specialization from Pious Templar; not sure yet what I'll do with the 9th level feat (Divine Vigor, maybe?) With power attack...shouldn't you be cleaving...at least a little? And...you needed "True Believer" to get into Pious Templar...if you retrain that feat, how can you still be a Pious Templar??
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 03:56 PM	It looks like a pretty cool build. What are some pros and cons?...and the specific party role it fills? On edit: I think I like XP penalties...more gaming. Race:Human Alignment:Lawful Good (Kundo) STR-15 (8) DEX-10 (2) CON-14 (6) INT-10 (2) WIS-14 (6) CHA-12 (4) Lv1(Bard)Combat Focus, Power Attack(retrain to Skill Focus (Perform) at 6th) Lv2(Paladin) Lv3(Paladin)Devoted Performer Lv4(Paladin)+1 STR Lv5(Paladin) Lv6(Fighter)Divine Vigor, Power Attack Lv7(Fighter)Combat Stability Lv8(Fighter)+1 STR (XP Penalty) Lv9(Bard)Ironskin Chant Lv10(Fighter)Combat Vigor (XP Penalty) Lv11(Bard) Lv12(Seeker of the Song)Extra Music, +1 STR Lv13(Seeker of the Song) Lv14(Seeker of the Song) Lv15(Seeker of the Song)Extra Music This will probably be the "Paladin" build I go with if I ever do a paladin. Divine Vigor, Combat Vigor, and Ironskin Chant combine to make you pretty durable, and Seeker of the Song on the end just increases Versatility. Makes sense to be a devoted performer of Kundo, because Kundo is the god of music and defense. The XP penalties could be avoided, but that would result in delaying some feats by a level, as well as requiring retraining to get the right amount of skills at the right levels to qualify for Ironskin Chant and Seeker of the Song.
Jay_Ibero_911 03-27-07, 04:10 PM	It looks like a pretty cool build. What are some pros and cons?...and the specific party role it fills? In combat, medium infantry is probably the best term. Out of combat, it depends on what skills you invest in at 1st level. The rest of the build, almost all the skill points are devoted to perform, concentration, and knowledge arcana. only gonna have a few bard spells, but Focusing Chant is a good one becuase it has no somatic components, and is a swift action. You could make a decent face, a little bit of a knowledge monkey, up to you. If you want more skills, you could drop str to 14 and up int to 12, which does give much more flexibility, but personally I prefer the strength. And of course, once it hits seeker of the song, you start picking up all kinds of fun tricks, and even though it's not till 15th, I like the idea of picking up the song of life, spend bardic music to heal with a perform check.
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 04:10 PM	These are some cool builds...what do you think of something like... Pally (until access to 3rd level paladin spells) / sorcerer / eldritch knight... could I use eldritch knight to level sorcerer spells even though my qualification is with the paladin levels?
Jay_Ibero_911 03-27-07, 04:12 PM	These are some cool builds...what do you think of something like... Pally (until access to 3rd level paladin spells) / sorcerer / eldritch knight... could I use eldritch knight to level sorcerer spells even though my qualification is with the paladin levels? Eldritch Knight requires 3rd level ARCANE spells....
Zanzibax 03-27-07, 04:15 PM	Eldritch Knight requires 3rd level ARCANE spells.... D'oh! :nonono: There's a reason why I asked for these builds from you guys rather than try to make one on my own!
kenobi65 03-27-07, 04:40 PM	With power attack...shouldn't you be cleaving...at least a little? Yes, ideally; it just hasn't worked out that way. IME, Cleave becomes slightly less effective at higher levels, when you're less likely to be dropping bad guys with a blow or two (esp. when you're not a two-handed fighter), but YMMV. And...you needed "True Believer" to get into Pious Templar...if you retrain that feat, how can you still be a Pious Templar?? Ooops, that was my mistake; I was referring to the feat slot at 9th, which I accidentally stuck there in my comments at 8th level.
cycloptic_squirrel 03-27-07, 07:45 PM	Looking forward to 9th for the free Weapon Specialization from Pious Templar; not sure yet what I'll do with the 9th level feat (Divine Vigor, maybe?) Melee Weapon Mastery? Either at 9 or the Pious Templar bonus feat at 10? Then again I'm a sucker for the big numbers. Especially at times when I should be developing alternative options.
kenobi65 03-27-07, 08:57 PM	Melee Weapon Mastery? Either at 9 or the Pious Templar bonus feat at 10? Oooh, I like that one. :D
clik_ml 03-27-07, 10:03 PM	[removed illegal suggestion] [edit: oh yeah, mine: 4 Bard/2 Paladin/4 Bard/4 SublimeChord/1 Spellsword ... spellsword is simply for +11 BAB at level 15]
clannagh 03-27-07, 10:12 PM	D'oh! :nonono: There's a reason why I asked for these builds from you guys rather than try to make one on my own! heroforge is a good double check for inadvertant prerequisite errors when playing with builds btw.. Ruathar can work out ok in some gish builds
Jay_Ibero_911 03-27-07, 11:38 PM	For what tis worth, Paladin/Bard builds with Devoted Performer can retrain that feat once you're done taking bard levels. It isn't a prereq for any sort of feat, prestige class, and if you don't need it for alignment requirements then you're good to go. It's what mine is gonna do someday anyway. [edit: oh yeah, mine: 4 Bard/2 Paladin/4 Bard/4 SublimeChord/1 Spellsword ... spellsword is simply for +11 BAB at level 15] Well my build also likes the extra uses of bardic music and the extra smite damage...Devoted Performer is like extra music+...And it needs it since with Ironskin Chant I'll be burning a music just about every round I'm in melee...
Morgen 03-28-07, 12:37 AM	Behold! The Honourable Lord of Tehn, Locké No'Tero! Divine Warrior of Bahumat! Paladin 4, Warmage 1, Dragon Diciple 10 (Gold Dragon), Shining Claw of Bahumat 1 (Well that's the plan at least.) Human (Suel) - Level 9 stats Str: 18 (+4 so far from DD) Dex: 10 Con: 13 (12, but got a bump in a mod, should be 16 by 12th level) Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 16 (2 level bumps) Pal 01 -Weapon Focus (Falchion), Power Attack Pal 02 - Pal 03 - Divine Vigor Pal 04 - War 01 DD 01 - Extra Smiting DD 02 DD 03 DD 04 - Sacred Vitality (Yay for access to awesome feats) He's a nobleman and a defender of the innocent, as well as a beleiver in the Great Horde. Honest to a fault, he tries his best not to just randomly see creatures slain unless they're typically evil things (demons, undead, devils, insurrence salesmen, drinkers.) He's decent enough at talking things through (+24 diplomacy) and is oddly a decent Singer. His main weapon of choice is a nonmagical Starmetal Falchion, and presently he's saving up for a suit of Mithral Fullplate to compliment his Glamoured +1 Mithril Breastplate.
clannagh 03-28-07, 02:11 AM	This is a rough build concept for a fairly standard unoriginal Velnian Paladin Gnome that I occasionally play, currently the character is about to hit level 5. To some extent power attack at 3 makes more sense as at low levels damage is pretty much non existant but "ride by attack" is more colorful and in character. 1. Paladin mounted combat 2. Paladin 3. Paladin ride by attack 4. Paladin 5. Paladin 6. hospitaler spirited charge, power attack 7. Paladin 8. Paladin (retrain power attack to weapon focus lance) 9. Cavalier power attack 10. Cavalier 11. Cavalier 12. Cavalier any feat 13. Cavalier 14. Cavalier 15. Cavalier any feat
GenghisBob 03-28-07, 03:54 AM	i Have a Paladin 9 almost 10. I like her, she is of the dumb but strong in a cute girlie kind of way. She relies on the might of her arm and the smite of her god. Out of combat she fumbles around like a big puppy, but her diplomacy helps somewhat and her often direct methods of questioning people in investigative mods....gets results. She has a celestial Dire wolf who is the brains of the party, and his skill set allows the paladin to contribute some more out of combat usefullness. GB
clik_ml 03-28-07, 06:59 AM	I have been tempted by a simple smiting Paladin/PiousTemplar build. Human 5 Paladin/10 Pious Templar of Lendor (any deity will do, I just really want to play a very elderly fighting guy who worships Lendor and whose main strength comes more from divine judgement than from his arms) 14/8/14/8/14/16 (bumps to cha) Feats: 1-WeaponFocus(greatsword) 1H-PowerAttack 3-TrueBeliever 6-DivineMight 8P-WeaponSpec(greatsword) 9P-MeleeWeaponMastery(slashing) 9-ExtraSmiting (5/day) 12-ExtraSmiting (8/day) 13P-ImpCrit(greatsword) 15-ExtraSmiting (11/day) You have plenty of divine might uses/day such that you won't have to be stingy with them and 3 smites/day at level 7, and it just ramps up from there: 5/day at 9, 8/day at 12, capping out at 11/day at level 15. That plus divine might for a sizable amount of damage will make him something of a heavy hitter, especially against evil guys. Feel free to swap out one of the Extra Smiting feats for Divine Vigor if you like.
Lupo 03-28-07, 08:43 AM	For what tis worth, Paladin/Bard builds with Devoted Performer can retrain that feat once you're done taking bard levels. It isn't a prereq for any sort of feat, prestige class, and if you don't need it for alignment requirements then you're good to go. It's what mine is gonna do someday anyway. [edit: oh yeah, mine: 4 Bard/2 Paladin/4 Bard/4 SublimeChord/1 Spellsword ... spellsword is simply for +11 BAB at level 15] training away your "devoted performer" would make all levels taken with it illegal, at least that is my opinion, you needed it to take the levels at all. so better keep it, there might be other DMs out there that have the same opinion :). ciao martin m.
clik_ml 03-28-07, 10:12 AM	training away your "devoted performer" would make all levels taken with it illegal, at least that is my opinion, you needed it to take the levels at all. so better keep it, there might be other DMs out there that have the same opinion Hrm, I don't see it that way, but there is some ambiguity and that is definitely something I don't want table variation on. Seems like a good candidate for the LG Q/A thread. :-)
Reylance 03-28-07, 10:38 AM	Paladin build: Pal15 Alternate more spellcasting paladin build: Rgr1/Pal4/PiousTemplarX Charisma synergy build: Half-elf Mar4/Pal2/OutcastChampion5/whateverX Devoted Performer build: Brd8/Pal2/SublimeChordX Paladin Gish build: Pal2/Sor4/Spellsword3or5/EldritchKnightX High saves Enlightned Fist build: Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3/EnlightenedFistX Any of these can be strong.
Zanzibax 03-28-07, 03:19 PM	Paladin build: Pal15 Alternate more spellcasting paladin build: Rgr1/Pal4/PiousTemplarX Charisma synergy build: Half-elf Mar4/Pal2/OutcastChampion5/whateverX Devoted Performer build: Brd8/Pal2/SublimeChordX Paladin Gish build: Pal2/Sor4/Spellsword3or5/EldritchKnightX High saves Enlightned Fist build: Mnk2/Pal2/Sor3/EnlightenedFistX Any of these can be strong. I'm now looking at building off of your Gish build: Pal3 (want the Bless Weapon spell at the very least...maybe it's a wand?) Sor4 or 6 Spellsword 3 or -- Eldritch Knight X
Lupo 03-28-07, 04:49 PM	For what tis worth, Paladin/Bard builds with Devoted Performer can retrain that feat once you're done taking bard levels. It isn't a prereq for any sort of feat, prestige class, and if you don't need it for alignment requirements then you're good to go. It's what mine is gonna do someday anyway. [edit: oh yeah, mine: 4 Bard/2 Paladin/4 Bard/4 SublimeChord/1 Spellsword ... spellsword is simply for +11 BAB at level 15] Hrm, I don't see it that way, but there is some ambiguity and that is definitely something I don't want table variation on. Seems like a good candidate for the LG Q/A thread. :-) devoted performer (Complete Adventurer p. 107) <snip>In addition, you can multiclass freely between the paladin and bard classes and may even gain additional bard levels regardless of your lawful alignment. You must still remain lawful good in order to retain your paladin abilities and take paladin levels.<snip> simple, if you train it away you no longer can ignore the "non-lawful" part of the bard or the "must be lawful good" of the paladin. so you would at least end up as an ex bard (not so hard) or ex paladin (somehow harder), maybe even both exes. i think all the character's level should be switched to NPC expert [cheesemaster] ;) ciao martin m. ps: take into account that those feats were written way before anyone thought of a concept like "retraining", so maximum exploit of it is at least cheesy. pps: yes, they should have written a paragraph about "devoted" and "ascetic" you-name-it into the "retraining" section, but as usual the poor, innocent and naive authors of WotC products have no idea about the wickedness of players to find flaws, loopholes and ambiguities in their intentionally perfect new features.
jstorrie 03-28-07, 07:23 PM	See if you can get regional access to Suel Arcanamach - that's an excellent multiclass option for Paladins, if you can get it.
clik_ml 03-28-07, 11:53 PM	Britt agrees with you Martin, so I'm in the hole there. No retraining of Devoted Performer. Thankfully my Bard/Pally is only 4/2 so far, so I was a fair bit away from that plan. All isn't lost however, my character shifted gears pretty heavily (was going to be a Bard/Barbarian/Wildrunner) and I will happily retrain Endurance next time I level. i think all the character's level should be switched to NPC expert [cheesemaster] Hrm, not a bad suggestion. I hear those do get gouda saves. [/derail] - Erik
Reylance 03-29-07, 10:43 AM	I'm now looking at building off of your Gish build: Pal3 (want the Bless Weapon spell at the very least...maybe it's a wand?) Sor4 or 6 Spellsword 3 or -- Eldritch Knight X You need Pal4 to cast Bless Weapon, which will slow down your arcane casting even more. If you're willing to spend feats on Weapon Focus (probably useful) and True Believer (minimally useful), you could just take a level of Pious Templar, getting better saves, mettle, and the same spellcasting. You should always take one level of spellsword, as there's zero opportunity cost.
Zanzibax 03-30-07, 09:28 AM	You need Pal4 to cast Bless Weapon, which will slow down your arcane casting even more. If you're willing to spend feats on Weapon Focus (probably useful) and True Believer (minimally useful), you could just take a level of Pious Templar, getting better saves, mettle, and the same spellcasting. You should always take one level of spellsword, as there's zero opportunity cost. Pious Templar is an arcane caster? Hm...and I thought that a Pal 1 could use Bless Weapon from a wand...it's under the 750gp limit for magic items now isn't it? Or is it not allowed for some reason I don't know about?
Reylance 03-30-07, 10:40 AM	A Pal1 can use a wand of bless weapon, but you need to find access first. There are very few (12) wands of 750 gp or less in the DMG; for example, there is no wand of shield. Pious Templar casts spells as a paladin. If you want to cast spells as a paladin, getting one level of that class beats getting two more levels of paladin, unless you seek to use turning-based feats.
Zanzibax 03-31-07, 05:27 PM	A Pal1 can use a wand of bless weapon, but you need to find access first. There are very few (12) wands of 750 gp or less in the DMG; for example, there is no wand of shield. Pious Templar casts spells as a paladin. If you want to cast spells as a paladin, getting one level of that class beats getting two more levels of paladin, unless you seek to use turning-based feats. Human S14 D10 C14 I10 W12 Ch15 Level 1: Paladin Weapon Focus: Greataxe, True Believer Level 2: Sorcerer Level 3: Sorcerer Retributive Spell Level 4: Paladin (Cha bump) Level 5: Sorcerer Level 6: Sorcerer Smiting Spell Level 7: Spellsword Level 8: Pious Templar (Str bump) Level 9: Sorcerer Arcane Strike Level 10: Eldritch Knight Improved Initiative (ALT Level 10: Paladin) Level 11: Eldritch Knight (ALT Level 11: Eldtrich Knight Improved Critical Greataxe)
Reylance 04-02-07, 01:46 PM	Remember you need to take your paladin levels consecutively, absent a feat like Ascetic Knight. And you will need to find a deity with favored weapon Greataxe to use it as your qualification for Pious Templar. (Only Garl Glittergold has paladins and favored weapon greataxe.)
Zanzibax 04-02-07, 04:45 PM	Remember you need to take your paladin levels consecutively, absent a feat like Ascetic Knight. And you will need to find a deity with favored weapon Greataxe to use it as your qualification for Pious Templar. (Only Garl Glittergold has paladins and favored weapon greataxe.) I didn't remember that...and I guess I was confused by Heironeous' description. He uses a "great xxx battleaxe"
kenobi65 04-02-07, 05:05 PM	I didn't remember that...and I guess I was confused by Heironeous' description. He uses a "great xxx battleaxe" Yeah, unfortunately, the "great" in that phrase is just flavor text. His favored weapons are battleaxe and longsword (the latter of which still rankles the Greyhawk grognards, since it's a recent addition).
Zanzibax 04-02-07, 05:10 PM	Yeah, unfortunately, the "great" in that phrase is just flavor text. His favored weapons are battleaxe and longsword (the latter of which still rankles the Greyhawk grognards, since it's a recent addition). yeah...me too...I ignored it. He uses a battleaxe or a greataxe...and the older pictures of him show him clearly using a two-handed greataxe, no ands ifs or butts. Ka-chunk
Zanzibax 04-02-07, 05:12 PM	Yeah, unfortunately, the "great" in that phrase is just flavor text. His favored weapons are battleaxe and longsword (the latter of which still rankles the Greyhawk grognards, since it's a recent addition). Oh...and I'm not sure what you mean by "grognard", but I called TSR and asked how much it would cost me to buy the "Greyhawk" name since they weren't using it anymore and I wanted to play the game still...I don't think I was the only one to call.
kenobi65 04-02-07, 05:58 PM	Oh...and I'm not sure what you mean by "grognard" It's a term that usually gets applied to old-time gamers. The term was originally applied to veterans in Napoleon's army, and was, much later, applied to old-time wargamers (in the 1970s). These days, I hear it often applied to anyone who started playing D&D in the 1E AD&D days (or before). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grognard
Nuddawan 04-03-07, 02:29 AM	(removed)
Zanzibax 04-03-07, 09:20 AM	It's a term that usually gets applied to old-time gamers. The term was originally applied to veterans in Napoleon's army, and was, much later, applied to old-time wargamers (in the 1970s). These days, I hear it often applied to anyone who started playing D&D in the 1E AD&D days (or before). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grognard Ayup...tha'd be me. :cool:
kenobi65 04-03-07, 11:00 AM	Ayup...tha'd be me. :cool: Thee and me both.