Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EberronMoses 10-29-06, 01:12 AM	We're going to start running thru the Bright Sands mods here soon and our party composition seems a little frontliner heavy. The party currently consists of: Ranger(me), ranger(buddy), rogue with a guard dog, paladin. What are our odds. Think we'll make it out of the desert alive?
Japangirl 10-29-06, 01:53 AM	It's a good chance you'll live fairly long and (hopefully) prosperous lives. The paladin, once he hits level 2, can at least do lay on hands healing, and at 4 can start using CLW wands. The lack of arcane and a full healer does hurt you some, but it isn't fatal. I've played several tables that were fighter/frontliner heavy, and we did very well hitting things with pointy objects. Just win initiative and kill them before they kill you :). The only really bad part is you only have four people it looks like. A lot of mods can be pretty rough with only four. A fifth person of whatever class would make things a lot easier for you.
pedr 10-29-06, 07:00 AM	Actually a Paladin can use CLW wands from first level. Spell Trigger Spell trigger activation is similar to spell completion, but it’s even simpler. No gestures or spell finishing is needed, just a special knowledge of spellcasting that an appropriate character would know, and a single word that must be spoken. Anyone with a spell on his or her spell list knows how to use a spell trigger item that stores that spell. (This is the case even for a character who can’t actually cast spells, such as a 3rd-level paladin.) The user must still determine what spell is stored in the item before she can activate it. Activating a spell trigger item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A Paladin 3 cannot use divine scrolls, however, as that requires a caster level, which she doesn't have until level 4.
Iswald 10-29-06, 07:25 AM	If you're starting with the first mod in the series, it's not an intro mod. It's a tough APL 2 adventure. I'd recommend having six players. You could also buy some guard dogs or something to better your odds.
EberronMoses 10-29-06, 07:43 AM	i played through Blood on Bright Sands earlier this year with a barbarian I made. I wanted another character that I could actually do some speaking with. Grugg barely spoke common, 6 int 6 cha but he was great for protecting squishies and finding the way through bright desert. My plan now is ranger and when i finish bright sands we're going to do Fane of Drow and I'll be a ranger with favored enemy humanoid (Drow) :D
SgtHulka 10-29-06, 10:53 AM	I agree with previous posters...there's nothing wrong per se with an all-frontline party. You just have to figure you'll be spending a lot of gold on potions until you gain wand access. However, four characters in Blood on Bright Sands is going to be tough. Also, unlike many mods, guard dogs aren't "automatic" help in BoBS, since the desert has a good chance of killing them. Dogs can't wear desert outfits or carry parasols, and that's several more mouths to feed (or to keep hydrated). On the upside, BoBS is also a very LONG mod (should have been a two-rounder imho) and as a result I've noticed a lot of judges just hand-wave the desert environmental stuff as they realize they're going to run out of time. When BoBS first came out, my friend played it at a table of all centaurs. Since he'd put a skill point in "Heal" he was considered the party cleric. They did fine with a table of six.
Lupo 10-29-06, 05:57 PM	We're going to start running thru the Bright Sands mods here soon and our party composition seems a little frontliner heavy. The party currently consists of: Ranger(me), ranger(buddy), rogue with a guard dog, paladin. What are our odds. Think we'll make it out of the desert alive? the problem is the first mod, where you are guarantied to be able to buy potions of cure light wounds before the module, so you have to be very effective in killing things to get through it. also keep an eye on dealing damage to foes that won't come close to you, for the one or other reason. make sure every "frontliner" has a backup bow, or at least some other means to do ranged damage. (first and second arcanists are basically doing this, doing some ranged damage :) or buffing one of the frontliners) ciao martin m. ps: a party of four first level characters for an "non" intro module is definitely asking for trouble. lately i played another of the bright sand's modules, with a party of four a little "up" (APL 4 with level 2,3,3,4), my wizard burned through a backpack full of scrolls to get us through it, but we survived (ok, our frontliner was silly, and nearly kicked the bucket but he asked for it).
_m_ 10-29-06, 06:33 PM	still, i think that in intros, or low apl mods, combat parties are gonna do better than support / caster parties. we failed to complete an intro yesterday. admitedly, 2 of the players, a fighter and ranger, were useless idiots, but the other 3 of us were a barbarian, who took 4 mobs down then died, a sorcerer, who magic missiled once, then got knocked unconcious, and me, a pacifist diplomat, who picked up the sorcerer and ran away :D and no, i didnt build a useless character, it was a sorcere too, but we just couldnt kill a bunch of level 1 skeletons and zombies. lol.
clannagh 10-29-06, 10:37 PM	you guys played that surprisingly poorly .. basically becasue of a total lack of party cohesion ... the entire party stood in a line and waited to get flanked and mugged with no tactics or attempts to focus on the same enemy at all against critters that could not run and were easily outmanouvered as well there may have been a lot of badguys for an "intro" encounter but nothing i threw at you had an armor class better than 12and they had either a laughable 7 hitpoints or 16 hitpoints depending on who they were .. the best attack any of them had was +1 in melee and that was with D6 scimitars in terms of individual tactics not a single person tried to fight defensively (even when they were surrounded) the mod even stated this was an "easy" encounter designed to knock a few hitpoints off and use up some cures :)
Mommy was an Orc 10-30-06, 12:39 AM	We're going to start running thru the Bright Sands mods here soon and our party composition seems a little frontliner heavy. The party currently consists of: Ranger(me), ranger(buddy), rogue with a guard dog, paladin. What are our odds. Think we'll make it out of the desert alive? I think one of the questions to ask is whether or not you're really all frontliners or not. Rangers and Paladins are often questionable frontliners depending on build at 1st level, and they're very rarely tweaked out in the way that Barbarians are. Rangers = often have very even stats, don't use two-handed weapons Paladins = often have a Dexterity reflecting that they'll eventually get Full Plate and a high Charisma which doesn't count for very much at 1st.
_m_ 10-30-06, 08:08 AM	you guys played that surprisingly poorly .. basically becasue of a total lack of party cohesion ... the entire party stood in a line and waited to get flanked and mugged with no tactics or attempts to focus on the same enemy at all against critters that could not run and were easily outmanouvered as well there may have been a lot of badguys for an "intro" encounter but nothing i threw at you had an armor class better than 12and they had either a laughable 7 hitpoints or 16 hitpoints depending on who they were .. the best attack any of them had was +1 in melee and that was with D6 scimitars in terms of individual tactics not a single person tried to fight defensively (even when they were surrounded) the mod even stated this was an "easy" encounter designed to knock a few hitpoints off and use up some cures :) hey, dont blame me... i didnt even get to fight. first second and third rounds i was stabalising people, 4th and 5th summoning, 6th running :D yeah, the party as a whole played it as a freakin shocker. awfull.
Lomiat 10-31-06, 12:42 AM	I would expect a party of frontliners to die (TPK) 2/3 mods at APL 8+. At APL 6 (when authors can generally expect to start seeing Haste, Fireball, Dimension Door, Freedom of Movement, Dispel Magic, etc.), I would expect a party of frontliners to die 1/4 of the time. At APLs 2-4, I expect a party of frontliners to have some difficulty, but not much, provided they have a way to heal after their combats and that they have magic weapons. Most mean monsters can simply neutralize 1 BDF per round. If the party can't get that PC back on to his/her feet and ready to fight (not just stand at the brink of death), then this means that by the 6th round of a fight, I would expect a party of BDFs to be wiped out. The issue, then, is whether or not the party of frontliners can eliminate the bad guy(s) within that time frame, even as their resources (read: party members) dwindle. It helps if the BDFs have their tricks: Improved Trip, Close Combat Fighting, Mounted Combat, etc. If they spend much time missing or failing to do significant damage, or if they can't hit (all melee vs. fly-by chargers) for significant damage, then the party's not going to to do well.
Morgen 10-31-06, 02:14 AM	Well I've seen a table of dwarven fighters roam about and survive mods reasonably well at I think APL 2 or 4 and it seemed to go quite well. I'd say it'd depend on your tactics more then skill or spells. If you guys work out plans and come up with an effective way to survive without the healing and damage classes there really isn't anything you can't do. Make it work and we'll all be appropriately impressed!
Lupo 10-31-06, 09:04 AM	Well I've seen a table of dwarven fighters roam about and survive mods reasonably well at I think APL 2 or 4 and it seemed to go quite well. I'd say it'd depend on your tactics more then skill or spells. If you guys work out plans and come up with an effective way to survive without the healing and damage classes there really isn't anything you can't do. Make it work and we'll all be appropriately impressed! no potions of healing for "fresh" characters, so you have to have a lot of hit points an awesome AC and smash things really fast. ciao martin m.
DuctShuiTengu 10-31-06, 09:45 AM	I'd say this is going to get progressively harder as you get into higher and higher APLs (though only having 4 people is going to put you at a bit of a disadvantage to begin with). At APL 2 (and possibly 4), about the strongest table you can get (most of the time) consists of a healer, someone to find traps, maybe someone to buff, and the rest of the spots filled with tanks. I've heard plenty of stories about how effective Wizards and Sorcerers can be at low level with spells like grease and sleep, but I've never seen it. As you go up in levels though, the balance shifts until the strongest table you can get is someone to find traps, maybe a tank, and then a bunch of casters, slightly favoring divine over arcane. This isn't to say that it can't be done, but the lack of healing means that you need to be able to consistantly kill off enemies before they can a: inflict much damage on you, or b: cause negative effects that won't heal normally before the next encounter, while the loss of spellcasting means you're going to have to find all sorts of odd work-arounds for situations where what you really need are spells. The good news though is that you can probably get away with having characters focus on mounted combat more than you'd be able to normally (assuming they can put themselves in a position to spirited charge relatively often) due to the relative lack of squishy characters to protect. A bit of a warning though, your rogue is kidding themself if they think they'll be able to tank.
Lomiat 10-31-06, 11:43 AM	At APL 2 (and possibly 4), about the strongest table you can get (most of the time) consists of a healer, someone to find traps, maybe someone to buff, and the rest of the spots filled with tanks. I've heard plenty of stories about how effective Wizards and Sorcerers can be at low level with spells like grease and sleep, but I've never seen it. Color Spray is game-breaking at APL 2 and still often manages to be game-breaking at APL 4 (even from a wand). I made a sorcerer who abuses the *&^% out of that spell after I'd seen it abused a few times. Grease won't break a game, but it will certainly give PCs a big advantage. Sleep is nice at APL 2 because bad guys, especially when there's a few mooks, still tend to have low HD (and Will saves), so they're rather susceptible to the 20 INT / Spell Focus (enchantment) type Grey Elves.
EberronMoses 10-31-06, 12:32 PM	The good news though is that you can probably get away with having characters focus on mounted combat more than you'd be able to normally (assuming they can put themselves in a position to spirited charge relatively often) due to the relative lack of squishy characters to protect. A bit of a warning though, your rogue is kidding themself if they think they'll be able to tank. No, the rogue wasn't meant to tank, he's the only non frontliner really. I'm going archer actually. My plan is to make a Yeomanry giant-killer with focus on getting out damage, not necessarily hitting hi ac. I still haven't decided on the Mounted combat thing but If i do MC i'm not going for spirited charge, i'm going for mounted archery so I can ride around shooting with my bow, rapid shotting constantly My big question far as my choice for Mounted Combat is going to be my animal companion. I have an 8 cha so handle animal will suffer. Which will be better for me: having a horse as my companion so i can ride and shoot, or having an eagle that could fly hi and warn of approaching danger. I just worry about the eagle cuz that would require some sort of HA check and I'm wondering how that awesome eagle scouting would be adjudicated in Living Greyhawk RPGA play. Any help?
Lomiat 10-31-06, 02:36 PM	Unless you start preparing enough Speak with Animals to account for every encounter, your PC won't be able to use an eagle to scout effectively. It has no way to communicate to you, nor have you any way to give it fine-tuned instructions. Thus, the horse is a better animal companion.
EberronMoses 10-31-06, 04:02 PM	true, but i could teach it to seek and if it sees nething let out a big eagle squawk or whatever and now I know enemies are about. Hadn't worked out the kinks of it. I'll probly go mounted neways. I'll make Link for Greyhawk, and Epona
clannagh 10-31-06, 07:03 PM	No, the rogue wasn't meant to tank, he's the only non frontliner really. I'm going archer actually. My plan is to make a Yeomanry giant-killer with focus on getting out damage, not necessarily hitting hi ac. I still haven't decided on the Mounted combat thing but If i do MC i'm not going for spirited charge, i'm going for mounted archery so I can ride around shooting with my bow, rapid shotting constantly My big question far as my choice for Mounted Combat is going to be my animal companion. I have an 8 cha so handle animal will suffer. Which will be better for me: having a horse as my companion so i can ride and shoot, or having an eagle that could fly hi and warn of approaching danger. I just worry about the eagle cuz that would require some sort of HA check and I'm wondering how that awesome eagle scouting would be adjudicated in Living Greyhawk RPGA play. Any help? Best animal depends on the mod for example neither of your choice work well in a dungeon crawl. In LG classes with animal companions can change them every mod so collect a few different animals .. you may have to double up on magic items for your companains but you will be much more versatile.
Cynric 10-31-06, 07:15 PM	As someone who plays a druid, Animal companions can be very useful methods of "gaining" a front liner. In the local area there were no front liners or clerics in our APL for a long time. A level of Beastmaster and Spontaneous Healer fixed that problem in most situation. In fact, one local player in the APL who has a two weapon fighting mutt build is quite upset that my animal companion does most of the damge while he stands there looking for someone to hit. Mind you, I have spent a lot of gold making the companion able to take hits and increase its AC. It will not work in all situation and I always have Reduce animal prepped and a pearl for it but it does the job most times.
_m_ 10-31-06, 07:26 PM	keep in mind, familiars can actually be used to tank. i know most people dont like the idea, due to familiars giving fairly serious penalties to the caster if they go down, but a familiar of a character with decent hp, and maybe a fortify and augment familiar, makes for a little montser with damage reduction and a rediculous ac. i concede however, that it may not be all that helpfull at the apl your at, or with no casters (though you could take the feat, in theory), familiar tanks shouldnt be overlooked.
ezreal2001 10-31-06, 08:54 PM	No, the rogue wasn't meant to tank, he's the only non frontliner really. I'm going archer actually. My plan is to make a Yeomanry giant-killer with focus on getting out damage, not necessarily hitting hi ac. I still haven't decided on the Mounted combat thing but If i do MC i'm not going for spirited charge, i'm going for mounted archery so I can ride around shooting with my bow, rapid shotting constantly My big question far as my choice for Mounted Combat is going to be my animal companion. I have an 8 cha so handle animal will suffer. Which will be better for me: having a horse as my companion so i can ride and shoot, or having an eagle that could fly hi and warn of approaching danger. I just worry about the eagle cuz that would require some sort of HA check and I'm wondering how that awesome eagle scouting would be adjudicated in Living Greyhawk RPGA play. Any help? My Rogue/Ranger mutt gets by quite happily without Mounted Archery (or Mounted Combat for that matter). IMHO the penalty for mounted archery with out the feat is simply too small to justify taking the feat, likewise your PC only needs to make a DC 5 Ride check to guide his mount with his knees as a free action - so an archer with dex 18 shouldn't have any difficulty guiding his mount and full attacking with his bow. Your Ranger's animal companion shouldn't require a handle animals check just to move while your Ranger shoots. So don't get too fussed about Cha, dosen't hurt to have a good Handle Animal score if only forThe type of companion is determined by your PC's Airbourne scouting/firesupport/sniping is alot of fun - the alitude provides excellent fields of view, although you're relying on separation for concealment. Make sure you've maxed spot. Take the time understand the Arial Combat rules in the DMG as well as the mounted combat rule from the PHB The biggest problem with out scouting a head on a flying mount, is being on your own and triping box text that was intended for the party. The best way to handle this work out how you gm copes with the unxpected... if you think the gm is incapible of dealing with a situation that the writter hasn't allowed for, stay with the party.
EberronMoses 10-31-06, 09:13 PM	ok, how has this gone all the way to FLYING mounted combat? Who done it? Here, let me just jump yaw on htis. I'm trying to build the ultimate ranger giant fighter. I want him to be HUMAN. and a pure ranger. my stats are: str14, dex14, con14,int12, wis14,cha 8. I'll take some minor suggestions on the stats. I know I want the archery style. My main question is what 2 feats at first level can I take to make me the best giant slayer around? Also, where should I allocate my skills. I've got 4 in: know(nature), know(geography), Hide, Spot, Listen, Survival, Move Silently. I've still got another skill I could max out because I'm not sure If I want to leave that int at 12 and go for mounted or move it over to dex for a 15. I'll leave it as is If I go mounted or come up with a better use for the skill points otherwise, its going to my dex. So what do u guys think I should do?
Lomiat 10-31-06, 09:37 PM	keep in mind, familiars can actually be used to tank. i know most people dont like the idea, due to familiars giving fairly serious penalties to the caster if they go down, but a familiar of a character with decent hp, and maybe a fortify and augment familiar, makes for a little montser with damage reduction and a rediculous ac. i concede however, that it may not be all that helpfull at the apl your at, or with no casters (though you could take the feat, in theory), familiar tanks shouldnt be overlooked. Hmm... I respectfully disagree. At 11th level, my wizard can cast a heap of spells on his familiar (Greater Mage Armor, Shield, Enhance Familiar, Polymorph, Haste, Heroism, Nightstalker's Transformation, False Life, etc.) and, in doing so, can get the familiar to AC 45, but the familiar still caps at 23+1d10+10 HPs (plus, potentially, Vampiric Touch). And, more importantly, the combats never last long enough to kick out those minute/level and round/level spells. If my wizard's casting those spells on his familiar, the fight's probably not important enough to waste the spells anyway. One use of Dragon Breath (shared with the familiar) would be far better than two touch attacks from a Will O' Wisp familiar. The point of the TANK in the party is to sit in front of the bad guys WHILE the casters are doing their thing and making everything go away. Sometimes the tanks make good progress in clearing out the bad guys (and more so at lower levels), but at the higher APLs, tanks are primarily less squishy targets that buy the casters some time. (Though in the last mod I played with my wizard, I enjoyed watching our party buff my friend's monk to a 43 AC with 8 attacks per round. That was good stuff... Nonetheless, the only one of the four elementals that dropped before the DM called the fight--due to the blinded elementals only being able to hit the AC on a nat 20, before the miss chance--was dropped by a Feeblemind / Ray of Stupidity combo.)
Lomiat 10-31-06, 09:45 PM	I'm trying to build the ultimate ranger giant fighter. I want him to be HUMAN. and a pure ranger. my stats are: str14, dex14, con14,int12, wis14,cha 8. I'll take some minor suggestions on the stats. I know I want the archery style. My main question is what 2 feats at first level can I take to make me the best giant slayer around? Also, where should I allocate my skills. I've got 4 in: know(nature), know(geography), Hide, Spot, Listen, Survival, Move Silently. I've still got another skill I could max out because I'm not sure If I want to leave that int at 12 and go for mounted or move it over to dex for a 15. I'll leave it as is If I go mounted or come up with a better use for the skill points otherwise, its going to my dex. So what do u guys think I should do? I'd drop the INT to 10 and bump the DEX to 15. Personally, I'd drop the WIS to 12 and bump the DEX to 16, as I favor a higher DEX and STR for an archer. The first level feats are no-brainers, though. If you're going archery style, your feats are Point-Blank Shot and Precise Shot. Those are the fundamentals of all archery feat trees. At 3rd level, you'll probably want to take Weapon Focus (longbow), but that's also one of the few levels you'll have to spare your feat. At 6th you'll want Manyshot from the Ranger archery style and Woodland Archery from Races of the Wild. The feats you choose won't make you a giant slayer. They'll make you a good archer. If you want to specialize in giant slaying, that's going to be determined by the equipment you purchase.
EberronMoses 10-31-06, 10:18 PM	The feats you choose won't make you a giant slayer. They'll make you a good archer. If you want to specialize in giant slaying, that's going to be determined by the equipment you purchase. explain plz. What equipment could i use to make me a giant slayer. I'm already using a longbow and longspear. I try to keep my weapons some sort of spear cuz thats what the Yeomanry uses in their militia so i get one for free. :D I was thinking it'd be all about feat choice. I know the best tip for fiting giants are: 1. Stay away 2. Deal lots of damage they have low ac so power attack or neting else u can do. Knowing this I was wanting to know if there were some feats I was missing. Yeah, I took pbs and precise shot for my first 2 feats. Just wanting to know if there was nething better I was missing.
_m_ 10-31-06, 10:29 PM	Hmm... I respectfully disagree. At 11th level, my wizard can cast a heap of spells on his familiar (Greater Mage Armor, Shield, Enhance Familiar, Polymorph, Haste, Heroism, Nightstalker's Transformation, False Life, etc.) and, in doing so, can get the familiar to AC 45, but the familiar still caps at 23+1d10+10 HPs (plus, potentially, Vampiric Touch). And, more importantly, the combats never last long enough to kick out those minute/level and round/level spells. If my wizard's casting those spells on his familiar, the fight's probably not important enough to waste the spells anyway. One use of Dragon Breath (shared with the familiar) would be far better than two touch attacks from a Will O' Wisp familiar. The point of the TANK in the party is to sit in front of the bad guys WHILE the casters are doing their thing and making everything go away. Sometimes the tanks make good progress in clearing out the bad guys (and more so at lower levels), but at the higher APLs, tanks are primarily less squishy targets that buy the casters some time. (Though in the last mod I played with my wizard, I enjoyed watching our party buff my friend's monk to a 43 AC with 8 attacks per round. That was good stuff... Nonetheless, the only one of the four elementals that dropped before the DM called the fight--due to the blinded elementals only being able to hit the AC on a nat 20, before the miss chance--was dropped by a Feeblemind / Ray of Stupidity combo.) interesting... my familiar at level 8 manages a respectable 56 hp when buffed. with 4 buffs total, not polymorphed, he gets a nice 38 ac. 38 ac 56 hp with evasion and spell resistance... and the buffs are hour per level buffs bar 1, so i just buff him when i buff me, pre combats, and off we go. plus you can lob fireball style aoes onto the are hes in and not be worried about hurting him. the little guy has insane reflex, and hp around par with the rest of the tanks, and a better ac at his apl than anyone else. obviously his damage is pathetic, but that dosent matter much.
_m_ 10-31-06, 10:31 PM	explain plz. What equipment could i use to make me a giant slayer. I'm already using a longbow and longspear. I try to keep my weapons some sort of spear cuz thats what the Yeomanry uses in their militia so i get one for free. :D I was thinking it'd be all about feat choice. I know the best tip for fiting giants are: 1. Stay away 2. Deal lots of damage they have low ac so power attack or neting else u can do. Knowing this I was wanting to know if there were some feats I was missing. Yeah, I took pbs and precise shot for my first 2 feats. Just wanting to know if there was nething better I was missing. sort of a double post on my part here but... : gnome giant slayer, if you want to slay giants...
Iswald 10-31-06, 11:09 PM	explain plz. What equipment could i use to make me a giant slayer. I'm already using a longbow and longspear. I try to keep my weapons some sort of spear cuz thats what the Yeomanry uses in their militia so i get one for free. :D Bane [giants]? If you were going into melee, there are some feats that would help you fight larger creatures. Staying in ranger will increase your favored enemy bonuses. But, featwise, I can't think of anything for archers that improves their effectiveness vs a particular type of creature. Improved Favored Enemy will let you do more damage against one of your favored enemies, but it works for melee as well.
EberronMoses 10-31-06, 11:48 PM	ofcourse bane weapons. I'm just talking feat/skill development to make me a more effective giant fighter.
_m_ 10-31-06, 11:52 PM	no really, there really is a class with 'giant-slayer' in the title... im not even kidding :D i mean, obviously you're making a giant slaying character for flavour, as to be honest, in 95ish AR's, ive met 1 giant, so y not make a giant slaying giant slayer?
clik_ml 11-01-06, 12:48 AM	in 95ish AR's, ive met 1 giant Dang, that must be a region thing. In about 70 ARs (I haven't counted, so rough guessing) I've seen plenty of giants, and most of those ARs are APL 2-4 since tis spread between a half-dozen characters. If I just went by my APL 6+ mods, the percentage would be much much higher. Number of LG mods containing giants that I've played: stone giants x2 hill giants x2 troll x2 ogre x(a lot!) Of those, a few were Verbobonc or VTF, but most were Core. I think I've fought an ettin as well, but can't recall when/where (might have been a homebrew game).
_m_ 11-01-06, 01:24 AM	Dang, that must be a region thing. In about 70 ARs (I haven't counted, so rough guessing) I've seen plenty of giants, and most of those ARs are APL 2-4 since tis spread between a half-dozen characters. If I just went by my APL 6+ mods, the percentage would be much much higher. Number of LG mods containing giants that I've played: stone giants x2 hill giants x2 troll x2 ogre x(a lot!) Of those, a few were Verbobonc or VTF, but most were Core. I think I've fought an ettin as well, but can't recall when/where (might have been a homebrew game). perenland...home of the small but dead...ly Number of LG mods out of 90ish ive played containing undead. 110 out of 90 :D so yeah, could be regional.
jstorrie 11-02-06, 01:31 PM	All you really need to invest in giant-slaying, if that is your thing, is Gnome or Dwarf race and Titan Fighting.
clik_ml 11-02-06, 04:36 PM	All you really need to invest in giant-slaying, if that is your thing, is Gnome or Dwarf race and Titan Fighting. Ehhh, Titan Fighting lets you use your racial +4 Dodge AC vs. Giants against a Dodge opponent who is at least a size larger than you. That in no way helps be a giant slayer. It sure helps you be better against non-giants, especially if yer a gnome, but does nothing for giant-slaying. [edit: Hrm, upon further consideration, I think the wording may let you net +4 Dodge AC on top of your natural +4 racial Dodge AC bonus, when using the Dodge feat against giants, but you may run into table variation on stacking that, and definitely the difference between +4 AC and +8 AC is not the be-all, end-all of giant slaying for the cost of 2 feats... you still have to actually slay em.]
solbergb 11-07-06, 04:10 PM	Doesn't titan fighting only work on the guy your Dodge feat is pointed at? and it replaces the "Dodge" advantage, so it is essentially +3 vs an opponent you've designated that is larger than you. It should stack with the racial bonus vs giants, since that isn't the bonus being replaced, it is instead the dodge feat bonus. I might be misremembering...
Cynric 11-07-06, 05:03 PM	Thats how I think it works. Considering I have a dwarven fighter planning on taking it it looks really good against giants.
_m_ 11-07-06, 05:35 PM	im still a little weirded out by all this, given that in all my ar's, ive meat maybe 4 giants, and 3 of those were friendly.
Lomiat 11-07-06, 05:55 PM	im still a little weirded out by all this, given that in all my ar's, ive meat maybe 4 giants, and 3 of those were friendly. What? I thought you played in Perrenland. You mean you haven't had a chance to run into What's-His-Name? the Fire Giant, the Irredeemably Damned? At our lowly APL (10 or 12, I forget), he didn't even bother to lift a hand against us; instead, he simply watched us kill his two hench-fire giants and admired how their souls were sucked into his wall of souls. Quite dark and twisted. I take it, too, that you're simply refusing to count Ogres, Ogre Mages, and Trolls as "real" giants, even though they all have the "Giant" type. Basically, we're looking for the ones that say, "Fee fi fo fum," right? P.S. Ah! Oh! I remembered his name: Folcrunar the Irredeemably Damned. Not just damned, mind you, but irredeemably so. That's pretty bad, methinks.
ezreal2001 11-07-06, 06:03 PM	What? I thought you played in Perrenland. You mean you haven't had a chance to run into What's-His-Name? the Fire Giant, the Irredeemably Damned? At our lowly APL (10 or 12, I forget), he didn't even bother to lift a hand against us; instead, he simply watched us kill his two hench-fire giants and admired how their souls were sucked into his wall of souls. Quite dark and twisted. I take it, too, that you're simply refusing to count Ogres, Ogre Mages, and Trolls as "real" giants, even though they all have the "Giant" type. Basically, we're looking for the ones that say, "Fee fi fo fum," right? P.S. Ah! Oh! I remembered his name: Folcrunar the Irredeemably Damned. Not just damned, mind you, but irredeemably so. That's pretty bad, methinks. Yeah but thats not actually a Perrenland mod. And M's not in the Perrenland region anymore. Of course if young M isn't out of TU and can arsed to get himself to Brisbane he still might have the opertunity to play it if wasn't one of the 594 metas.
_m_ 11-07-06, 07:05 PM	Yeah but thats not actually a Perrenland mod. And M's not in the Perrenland region anymore. Of course if young M isn't out of TU and can arsed to get himself to Brisbane he still might have the opertunity to play it if wasn't one of the 594 metas. aye, BUT: m's main still technically lives in perenland, due to alvins coolness there. Also, m isnt hiking to brisbane unless m has a free place to stay, and gets a bunch of games in, to make it worth m's while. and lastly, and most importantly... m is lowercase!!! the sig, evil person, read the sig! and young m has 7 TU's left, and isnt in a position to use them, because m is the only toon at m's level where m lives. man, talking about me in 3rd person is hard :D
Cynric 11-07-06, 07:47 PM	Well maybe m should get hiomself to Canberra. We can always find a game going.
_m_ 11-07-06, 08:05 PM	well maybe m will. :D
Iswald 11-07-06, 10:28 PM	m is lowercase!!! the sig, evil person, read the sig! Profile, not signature. Your signature goes on the bottom of your post.
_m_ 11-07-06, 11:04 PM	wtf happened to my sig!? i had it yesterday! no seriously, both mine, and everyone elses sigs have dissappeared! aint changed anything either! GRRR lol its suddenly back! im confused. (yes, i edited this message 4 times)
EberronMoses 11-08-06, 12:50 AM	I take it, too, that you're simply refusing to count Ogres, Ogre Mages, and Trolls as "real" giants, even though they all have the "Giant" type. Basically, we're looking for the ones that say, "Fee fi fo fum," right?" Omg, that is probably one of the funniest responses I've ever seen. :heehee
Gwumph 11-08-06, 01:42 AM	If m is looking to get some Perrenland games in and have some fun (depends just how "young" young m is?) m can always come up to Bangkok Thailand, now officially Perrenland!! p.s. Cheap food, cheap beer, cheap everything!! :pint: Cheers!!!
KShaver 11-08-06, 08:07 AM	Ehhh, Titan Fighting lets you use your racial +4 Dodge AC vs. Giants against a Dodge opponent who is at least a size larger than you. That in no way helps be a giant slayer. It sure helps you be better against non-giants, especially if yer a gnome, but does nothing for giant-slaying. [edit: Hrm, upon further consideration, I think the wording may let you net +4 Dodge AC on top of your natural +4 racial Dodge AC bonus, when using the Dodge feat against giants, but you may run into table variation on stacking that, and definitely the difference between +4 AC and +8 AC is not the be-all, end-all of giant slaying for the cost of 2 feats... you still have to actually slay em.] All this talk of titan fighting and I had come to my own conclusion on it in my own thread. This is how I read it too, it does seem to stack with racial doge vs giants when fighting giants. Can't say I've seen too many giants, but mostly I've been playing Bright Sands. I have played a couple of Veluna regionals so far and there was one in one of those. I felt bad for that poor lumberjack, lied my tail off telling him we were sending his big blue ox to the village for medical treatment...They had the ox roast of the century instead.
_m_ 11-08-06, 04:56 PM	m is young, but not that young :D m is technically an adult, but to travel to bangkok, m'd want to be able to burn like 50 time units while m was there ;) as for 'not counting' trolls and ogres and the like, if i were to add them to my list... that'd make... 4 hostile, 2 friendly giants... ever. i do know what they are, i just dont find them very often is all :D
solbergb 11-08-06, 09:20 PM	Hey, Thailand is worth a visit even without D&D. Some of the best restaurants I've eaten at in my life, anywhere in the world and not just their own regional food...I've had the best North Italian cusine in my life from a restaurant right across the street from my Hotel. They take their food as seriously as the French do. Plus it's just a cool place. It's an eastern civilization that never lost a war to or was occupied by a western power, and it is really fascinating to see what they've taken from western traditions and adapted to their own use. Any D&D you get to play there is pure bonus :)
echoota 11-13-06, 09:23 AM	Here, let me just jump yaw on htis. I'm trying to build the ultimate ranger giant fighter. I want him to be HUMAN. and a pure ranger. my stats are: str14, dex14, con14,int12, wis14,cha 8. I'll take some minor suggestions on the stats. I know I want the archery style. My main question is what 2 feats at first level can I take to make me the best giant slayer around? You might consider uping that strength to at least 16. The big problem with the archer is that the damage output doesn't ramp up much, nor very quickly and so where ever you can squeeze extra damage in the better. Your BAB will continue to increase and thus help with hitting things, however the damage you deliver with each arrow won't signifigantly increase. So 16 str with a composite longbow with +3 pull will help.