Post/Author/DateTime	Post
UMiskatonic 05-27-07, 01:51 PM	Hey all, I really like the idea of luck feats, and the idea of the fortune's friend PrC. Unfortunately, my last Fortune's friend died horribly after failing two disable device checks and failing three saves on a phantasmal killer trap in the World's Largest Dungeon. So I'm hoping to build one for LG, and I'd like to get your thoughts... Fortune's Friend 5-level prestige class, with wizard BAB and good save: reflex 6 skills a level, with a good skill list Advances spellcasting at 2nd and 4th level, and gives two bonus luck feats, in addition to serious luck-related bonuses.
UMiskatonic 05-27-07, 01:52 PM	Overall, I can see that this is going to suffer from a lot of the same problems as the usual arcane trickster builds. By the time you hit level 8 or so, you'll have a Fortitude save of +2, a BAB of +4, and only be able to cast 2nd level spells. In theory, the luck feats you'll be getting should get you around a lot of that...
UMiskatonic 05-27-07, 02:04 PM	Spellcasting So, Fortune's friend advances spellcasting, and it doesn't specify what kind of spellcaster you need to be. Interesting. Bard? Interesting. If you want a lucky bard, this is a great way to go. The skill list includes the social skills and the all important perform, and adds Open Lock, Search and Disable which I think some bards could really use. Still don't have trapfinding, though, unless you walk in with something like Rogue1/Bard 4/Fortune's Friend5/Sublime Chord 5 Beguiler This one has possibilites as well. Beguilers, like warmages, hurt a lot from losing caster levels, but if you want to be more of a rogue, and less of an enchanter, it's an interesting route. Maybe a two level dip? That would trade a caster level for a bonus feat and some special abilities... Cleric? There's been a need for a useful rogue/cleric for a while now, and something like rogue3/cleric 2 might work well. You would be very close, skill-wise to a straight rogue build, and have some cleric mojo to help out. Overall, this is easier to get into than Divine Prankster, but makes you more of a rogue with a few spells than a multi-classed rogue/cleric. Note: This goes very well with Luck Domain, and gives you extra uses of that power. Fortune's friend might be very interesting for clerics of Luck or Fate, if not staggeringly powerful. Druid? I don't see a lot of synergy here. I think Scout 1/Druid 14 has this beat hands-down, and that's if you really want a trapfinding druid. Druids are fine as they are, in my opinion. Sorceror Sorceror offers up some CHA synergy, in that you'll have CHA, and the CHA skills to go with it. Unfortunately, Rogue3/Sorceror 2/FF 5 is only able to cast 2nd level spells. While I like this idea a lot, it's worth mentioning that a bard 10 would have a similar number of skill points, and have 4th level spells. Warmage Other than some measly INT synergy between skills and Warmage Edge, this is really going to make you mediocre at two jobs, instead of good at one. Warmage 15 with a Rogue 12 cohort will get you much farther. Wizard allows for good INT synergy, in that your spell DCs, your total number of skill points, and your trapfinding skills all run off of INT. However, you're sub-par compared to an Arcane Trickster, and AT's were passed up a while ago with the new prestige classes. Hmm, still under construction...I'll have to finish this in a few minutes....
Mommy was an Orc 05-27-07, 02:56 PM	I think Fortune's Friend is one of those PrCs that is very well designed to be subiconic. Give it fair BAB or only lose caster level at 1st level and 4th level, it still feels a little weak, but not as bad as it is. The Luck feats are generally a bit on the weak side, so it isn't benefitting from them as much as it could have. The strongest build with it is probably something along the lines of Bard 1/Wizard 5/Fortune's Friend 4/Sublime Chord 5 or something similar - range of 4th level spells, but enough skill points from FF so as to not have to massively cross-class or retrain. Skill Monkey plus some extras. Of course, could have easily have gone Rogue 1/Wizard 6/Unseen Seer 8 with a lot more effectiveness. Another interesting build would be Rogue 1/Druid 3/Wizard 1/Fortune's Friend 4/Arcane Hierophant 6 - end up with 5th level spells in each, but man would I hate to sit down at a table with one of them at APL 10 - "Yes, I cast 2 sets of 2nd level spells and I have a BAB of +4. But I trapfind!"
Evanta 05-27-07, 11:26 PM	Considered dipping 2 levels into Fortune's Friend for Beguiler previously. (would have been Begulier X/Fortune's Friend 2, with maybe Mindbender 1 added in.) The only main thing to me that makes it for consideration is the Make Your Own Luck feat, which would greatly reduce the chances that wands and scrolls fail in combat when vs. UD/constructs, as well as making you succeed in Tumble / Escape Artist / Disable Device checks, all of which have dire reprecussions if you fail.
ThaiGQ 05-28-07, 05:36 AM	I've actually been toying around with a Fortune's Friend build for a while myself and I figured that it might be best to just go straight Fighter for the extra feats to offset the ones you lose...although admittedly, I did end up wanting to take 4-5 Luck feats. :P But by 6th level or so, I'd have all the luck feats that I want (not including the extra ones gained from the PrC) plus some bonus fighter feats so I wouldn't be useless in combat. The only major problem I see with the build is you lose out on 2-3 points of BAB and you don't fully take advantage of spell advancement, but it looks like it might be a decently fun build to play. Especially if you go for a big crit modifier like a scythe (x4) or something and take Improved Critical and Better Lucky Than Good.
UMiskatonic 05-28-07, 05:19 PM	AAARGGH! I -really- wanted this to work out, but after looking seriously at it, the class just isn't that good. At best, it's a two-level dip class for a bard or a beguiler, or a cleric of trickery/fate. It trades a caster level for some different skills, a bonus luck feat, and some luck feat crunchiness. With the right selection of luck feats, you might get some interesting things going on, but I don't see where those feats are anywhere near as good as, say, Power Attack, Empower Spell, or Rapid Shot.
Mommy was an Orc 05-28-07, 05:26 PM	AAARGGH! I -really- wanted this to work out, but after looking seriously at it, the class just isn't that good. At best, it's a two-level dip class for a bard or a beguiler, or a cleric of trickery/fate. It trades a caster level for some different skills, a bonus luck feat, and some luck feat crunchiness. With the right selection of luck feats, you might get some interesting things going on, but I don't see where those feats are anywhere near as good as, say, Power Attack, Empower Spell, or Rapid Shot. It does have lots of flavor, and a Bard 6/Fortune's Friend 4/Sublime Chord 5 is perfectly viable. Or Rogue 1/Bard 5/Fortune's Friend 4/Sublime Chord 1/Unseen Seer 4. It isn't very good, but there are ways to make it work.
Iswald 06-02-07, 03:33 AM	Although I don't think it would work out very well, you could advance your caster levels in paladin, ranger, hexblade, pious templar or divine crusader. Which is worse, losing three BAB or three caster levels?
UMiskatonic 06-02-07, 11:39 AM	I think they are both bad. I've given up on this class, even though I really wanted it to be cool.
Alpha_Nerd 06-03-07, 08:29 PM	This is what I've come up with for Fortune's Friend Human Barbarian 2/Fighter 4/Pious Templar 4/Fortune's Friend 5 STR 18 DEX 10 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 12 CHA 8 1 Barbarian: Luck Feat, Extra Rage 2 Fighter: Power Attack 3 Fighter: Weapon Focus: Scythe, True Believer 4 Fighter: STR +1 5 Fighter: Weapon Specialization 6 Pious Templar: Luck Feat 7 Fortune's Friend 8 Fortune's Friend: Luck Feat, STR +1 9 Fortune's Friend: Luck Feat 10 Fortune's Friend: Luck Feat 11 Pious Templar 12 Pious Templar: Retrain Weapon Specialization into Luck Feat, Melee Weapon Mastery: Slashing, WIS +1 13 Pious Templar 14 Barbarian 15 Fortune's Friend: Luck Feat He's a standard Power Attacking fighter with a slew of luck feats and rerolls. 12 BAB at 15th, casts as a 6th level Pious Templar, and his base saves should be 12/6/6, allowing you to pick Will for Unbelievable Luck.
Tenfingers 06-11-07, 05:57 PM	Here's my Fortune Freind Build: Elf S 14 D 17 C 10 I 14 W 10 C 10 1: Rogue 1 - Sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, Improved Iniative 2: Fighter 1 - Bonus Feat: Point Blank Shot 3: Rogue 2 - Evasion Rapid Shot 4: Fighter 2 - Bonus Feat: Precise Shot, +1 Dex 5: Rouge 3 - Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1 6: Wizard 1 - Summon Familier, Scribe Scroll, Practiced Spellcaster 7: Fortune's Freind 1 - Easy Luck, Extra fortune, "More luck than skill" 8: Fortune's Freind 2 - Bonus Luck Feat, Fortuitive Strike, +1 Int 9: Wizard 2 - Feat: ? 10: Fortune's Freind 3 - Extra Fotune, "Fortune's Favorite" 11: Fortune's Freind 4 - Bonus Luck Feat, Make your own Luck 12: Wizard 3 - Feat ?, +1 Int. He's basically a Rouge (Maxing out Disable Devise, Open Locks, Search, and Tumble every Rouge and F.F. level). At 9th Level, He'll be casting 2nd level spells as a 7th level caster and at 12th level he'll cast 3rd level spells as a 9th level caster (maxing out his rays and magic missle). He has Sneak Attack and PBS for the ray spells + eventually Acrobatic Backstab. The design: Cause massive amounts of damage right off the bat (Improved Inititative, Lucky Start+Sneak Attack, PBS = 3 x 4d8+2d6+1 Touch Attack), but still act as the groups Rouge... Let me know what you think!
Britt 06-11-07, 06:46 PM	If I was playing LG, I would so play a Cleric of Ralishaz/Fortune's Friend, maybe with bard or rogue thrown into the mix. My last serious character for LG was a bard/cleric of Ralishaz, going mystic theurge. The important thing to remember is that if you are good with tactics, you can be more successful with a crappy character than someone that is poor with tactics with a great character. And this wouldn't be a crappy character; this would be a mediocre character with a lot of flavor. Just find one thing you can do fairly well (I was focusing on debuffs) and make sure you keep that maxed.
ThaiGQ 06-12-07, 07:27 AM	If I was playing LG, I would so play a Cleric of Ralishaz/Fortune's Friend, maybe with bard or rogue thrown into the mix. My last serious character for LG was a bard/cleric of Ralishaz, going mystic theurge. The important thing to remember is that if you are good with tactics, you can be more successful with a crappy character than someone that is poor with tactics with a great character. And this wouldn't be a crappy character; this would be a mediocre character with a lot of flavor. Just find one thing you can do fairly well (I was focusing on debuffs) and make sure you keep that maxed. Sorry if I don't know this...but you don't play LG, Britt? :confused: Does it have to do with being part of the Circle?
Mommy was an Orc 06-12-07, 09:46 AM	Sorry if I don't know this...but you don't play LG, Britt? :confused: Does it have to do with being part of the Circle? Yes, the Circle are not allowed to play LG at all.
Britt 06-12-07, 03:34 PM	Yes, the Circle are not allowed to play LG at all. Conflict of interest.
kenobi65 06-12-07, 04:19 PM	Conflict of interest. And, that's pretty consistent with what I've seen in other campaigns -- the senior leadership isn't allowed to play in the campaign at all, while other staffers have to limit their play to those areas that don't represent a conflict (e.g., you can't play modules you've edited). In LG, the Triads are still allowed to play, though my understanding is that they can't play modules from their region or metaregion, and their PCs can't be residents of their region.
Britt 06-12-07, 04:42 PM	Triad PCs can be residents of their region, but they can't derive any benefits from that region. No playing regional or metaregional mods from their area, no getting benefits from regional certs or metaorgs, etc.
kenobi65 06-12-07, 04:50 PM	Triad PCs can be residents of their region, but they can't derive any benefits from that region. No playing regional or metaregional mods from their area, no getting benefits from regional certs or metaorgs, etc. Ahh...thanks for the clarification, Britt. I suspect that the metaorg thing may explain why I keep seeing current or former Triads with PCs from neighboring regions.
solbergb 06-12-07, 04:59 PM	I tried to get around the problems of the class by trying to do essentially a melee build using divine power to fix up the disasterous BAB. I didn't succeed - at least not in a campaign where you have to play the first 10 levels or so.
Cardinal Teplin 06-13-07, 12:32 PM	Would it make a good add-on to something like Divine crusader? Ie - fighter/paladin with luck domian and luck domain spells...
Timlagor 06-15-07, 07:19 AM	I tried to get around the problems of the class by trying to do essentially a melee build using divine power to fix up the disasterous BAB. I didn't succeed - at least not in a campaign where you have to play the first 10 levels or so. How about if you don't take it until after level 10?
Mommy was an Orc 06-15-07, 11:18 AM	It really isn't that bad with the bard build I've outlined. Something along the lines of: Human Str 8, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 16 Bard 1/Wizard 6/Fortune's Friend 4/Sublime Chord 4 1: Bard 1: Extra Music, Improved Initiative 2: Wizard 1(Transmuter - Ban Enchantment/Evocation): Scribe Scroll 3: Wizard 2: Melodic Casting 4: Wizard 3 5: Wizard 4 6: Wizard 5: CWI, Luck Feat 7: Wizard 6 8: Fortune's Friend 1 9: Fortune's Friend 2: ?, Luck Feat 10: Fortune's Friend 3 11: Sublime Chord 1 12: Sublime Chord 2: ? 13: Fortune's Friend 4: Luck Feat 14: Sublime Chord 3 15: Sublime Chord 4: ? Play the utility wizard - you cast Haste at APL 6-8. Extra Music is nice for the +1/+1 or giving you spare musics for Song of Arcane Power. Bard 7/Fortune's Friend 4/Sublime Chord 4 could work equally well - less casting on the front end, more skill points.
LachlarlanIII 06-15-07, 11:55 AM	This is my melee Fortune's Friend build from my Lucky Outcast thread. Half-Elf Alignment: Chaotic Good Deity: Kord Str 15, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 14 1: Barbarian 1 - Extra Rage 2: Fighter 1 - *Power Attack 3: Fighter 2 - Reckless Rage, *Weapon Focus (Greatsword) 4: Fighter 3 - Str 16 5: Fighter 4 - *Weapon Specialization (Greatsword) 6: Outcast Champion 1 - Victor's Luck 7: Outcast Champion 2 8: Divine Crusader 1 - Str 17 9: Divine Crusader 2 - Melee Weapon Mastery (Slashing) 10: Divine Crusader 3 11: Divine Crusader 4 12: Fortune's Friend 1 - Tempting Fate, Str 18 13: Fortune's Friend 2 - *Better Lucky than Good 14: Fortune's Friend 3 15: Fortune's Friend 4 - Survivor's Luck, *Unbelievable Luck *Bonus Feat Divine Crusader Domain = Competition This build can give me as much as 38 Strength at 15th level. 18 Str + 6 Enhancement (Belt +6) + 6 Rage (Reckless Rage) + 4 Size (Righteous Might) = 34 Strength. This build can around 5d6+23 damage before power attack, and has around a +30 to hit with its primary attack. I really like this build, and I'll probably end up playing it for Greyhawk Ruins.
solbergb 06-15-07, 02:16 PM	How about if you don't take it until after level 10? the problem is my build didn't really work at all as a melee without divine power, and before you muster the levels for it, plus the minimal melee feats and the big wad of luck feats, the build is severely subiconic. It's essentially a mix of 3/4 and 1/2 BAB classes with 1/day feats and attribute distribution issues. That outcast champion build looks half decent.
Timlagor 06-16-07, 11:47 AM	Hard to justify not taking all the OChamp levels though