Questions for Paladin Mount [Archive] - Wizards Community

Questions for Paladin Mount [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
BlackNova169
09-02-07, 12:19 AM The rules on advancement of mounts & use of mounts is kind of vague so I have a couple questions & I'd be thankful for any help :)

#1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken?

#2 Is it possible to give a mount the trample feat, or does it require the rider (myself) to take the feat? If I give the mount the Improved Overrun feat I assume he cannot take the trample attacks, just knock people prone. I'd like to be able to trample by giving the mount a feat & not having to take it on my paladin if possible.

#3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones?

#4 What riding skill do I need to fight effectively on a paladin mount? DC5 to guide with knees, but the mount has a link & is intelligent... DC10 to 'fight with warhorse' but again, the mount is linked & is intelligent. What minimum ride skill do I need to fight with my mount?

#5 How far can the mount travel & still allow me an attack. (eg can it run x5 speed, or just a double move).

and finally

#6 If I get an item that gives a feat, namely, Ride by Attack, does it count toward one of the pre-reqs for Spirited Charge? Namely, can I get Mounted Combat as a feat, then get Riding boots, and then get Spirited Charge as a feat? Also, if the boots arn't worn or are in anti-magic then both feats would be disabled I assume.

Thank you for all the help! I just got my mount & I'm pretty excited about the possiblities (& I'm hoping to get a unicorn mount @ lvl6 if all goes well!)
kenobi65
09-02-07, 01:32 AM I don't know all the answers, but...

#1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken?

No. You advance your mount *exactly* as it's described in the "Paladin's Mount" section. And, I don't think you can treat your mount as a cohort.

#2 Is it possible to give a mount the trample feat, or does it require the rider (myself) to take the feat? If I give the mount the Improved Overrun feat I assume he cannot take the trample attacks, just knock people prone. I'd like to be able to trample by giving the mount a feat & not having to take it on my paladin if possible.

Nope. Read the description of Trample closely; it only applies to a mount you're riding / controlling. So, it's the rider who has to take it.

#3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones?

Tactically, I don't think Run will come up that often; at 4x Move, your mount will get from one side of a battlemat to the other.

Improved Natural Weapon is a good one. Your mount can also take feats like Weapon Focus.

#6 If I get an item that gives a feat, namely, Ride by Attack, does it count toward one of the pre-reqs for Spirited Charge? Namely, can I get Mounted Combat as a feat, then get Riding boots, and then get Spirited Charge as a feat? Also, if the boots arn't worn or are in anti-magic then both feats would be disabled I assume.

My understanding is that yes, this would work, and, yes, if you lose use of the "virtual feat", you'd also lose use of Spirited Charge.
clannagh
09-03-07, 01:21 AM The rules on advancement of mounts & use of mounts is kind of vague so I have a couple questions & I'd be thankful for any help :)

#1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken?

If your access is cohort OR special mount you can choose which it will be. I can not see it being possible for it to be both however. It will have either the features of a cohort or be a special mount.

#3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones?

There is a feat (fleet of foot?) that allows you to make a turn while charging.

Thank you for all the help! I just got my mount & I'm pretty excited about the possiblities (& I'm hoping to get a unicorn mount @ lvl6 if all goes well!)

Remember that if you qualify for the mount at level 6 your "effective paladin level" is one less than your actual level for paladin level based improvements to the mount.

This is probably the most common error made when writing up the stats for unusual paladin Special Mounts.
Rerednaw
09-04-07, 11:31 AM Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns.

I also assume that one requires access.
kenobi65
09-04-07, 12:13 PM Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns.

I also assume that one requires access.

In the DMG. I'm not sure if it made it into the SRD.

And, yes, for anything other than a heavy warhorse (or a warpony or riding dog, for a Small PC), you need access.

Also, I just noted this line in the LGCS (p. 13, under "Paladin Mounts"), which addresses the original question:

Advanced paladin mounts gain only what is specifically mentioned in the PH; any such benefits are gained as an animal, not a magical beast.
clannagh
09-04-07, 07:58 PM Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns.

I also assume that one requires access.

DMG pp204-205
The section is entitled "Mounts" and is not overly easy to follow but if you struggle through it all the information is there.
UMiskatonic
09-11-07, 10:26 PM LIghting Reflexes is a good feat, make better use of that evasion. I found that after the first spirited charge, I attracted a lot of attention.

And, of course, Imp. Flight is golden, assuming your mount has wings in the first place.
BlackNova169
10-05-07, 11:16 PM I have another question about advancing mounts, specifically their skills. Say we take the standard heavy warhorse. I don't have my MM with me but with the +2HD advancement I think it has about 9 skillpoints total. Can I put these skillpoints whereever I want, or do I have to use the skills listen in the MM (I think they were listen and spot). More generally, what skills are Class Skills for my mount?

The main reason I'm asking is because I wanted to train my special (now intelligent) mount with 5 ranks of balance to avoid the common grease spell's flatfooted effects. In fact, the very first mod I played with my new horse he was greased, but when I pointed out that I had trained my horse to balance, he said I could only advance skills the horse already had.

I've looked in various books but I havn't seen anything regarding class skills for monsters. I'd like to say that because the mount is intelligent and I personally trained it that I should be able to give it ranks in balance, but without any source its hard to claim anything. Does anyone know anything regarding class skills in monsters?
jstorrie
10-06-07, 04:34 AM Your mount can have whatever skills you want, but it only has Listen and Spot as class skills for its hit dice, and it'd be a bit ridiculous to give it ranks in skills that a horse/whatever would never learn (so no lockpicking mounts.)

As an animal with 8 or less Intelligence, though, your mount will only be getting one skill point per 'level,' and since it doesn't ever really level up you can't have it retrain, either. That means you'll have to dump 10 skill points into Balance, which you can't do until you're character level 8.
BlackNova169
10-06-07, 06:17 PM Ah ok, so balance would be cross-class, and the mount would have to be HD-7 in order to dump 10 skillpoints in to get 5 ranks in balance. An animal being taught how to balance on slick surfaces doesn't seem too extreme (compared to lockpicking ;p)

Your comment on retraining my mount kind of confused me though. When I made my mount I created it 'from scratch' as my own mount from HD-1, giving it skills & feats I thought appropriate. For instance I gave it improved toughness instead of run. Is this the way I was supposed to do it, or was I supposed to take the normal MM heavy warhorse (with its pre-picked feats/skills) and then just add 2 more HD worth of skills? Run & endurance arn't terribly useful, whereas Imp. Toughness and Imp. Natural weapon (the feats I replaced them with) are actually useful.
UMiskatonic
10-06-07, 07:33 PM You're fine.

Jstorrie is referring to a hypothetical situation, and you don't need to worry about it unless you're interested in what the rules -could- do in the set of all possible circumstances.

Which, for the record, I am interested in.
copper_wyrmling
10-06-07, 08:48 PM I actually thought you did have to use the MM feats / skills for the base HD - the PHB paladin mount sidebar says "Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount's kind, as given in the Monster Manual". Do you have a reference otherwise, UMiskatonic? I'd be interested to see it if so.
Mommy was an Orc
10-07-07, 10:01 AM I actually thought you did have to use the MM feats / skills for the base HD - the PHB paladin mount sidebar says "Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount's kind, as given in the Monster Manual". Do you have a reference otherwise, UMiskatonic? I'd be interested to see it if so.

Yeah, that's my take on it too. Unless you've got special access, only the advanced hit dice should get to change. Run's a good feat for a Horse because you've got no choice...
BlackNova169
11-01-07, 09:02 PM There is a feat (fleet of foot?) that allows you to make a turn while charging.

Fleet of foot has the requirement of the Run feat and a dex of 13. Provided my special mount had these pre-reqs, would there be any problem in giving it to my mount as a feat? For a spirited charger, it seems like it would be really good since it's always a pain trying to get a charge lane. I just don't want a GM down the road to tell me that its not allowed if I try to use it, and I don't want to use it if it is, in fact, not allowed.

Also, would there be any sort of ride check to 'stay on' as your mount is going through a turn at charge speed? Although I like to picture it as the feat allowing you to quickly accelerate up to charge speed after a turn.

Thanks!
Qworg
12-15-07, 02:08 AM I have never had anyone disallow it - Fleet of Foot is spectacular for any mount. =)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BlackNova169 09-02-07, 12:19 AM	The rules on advancement of mounts & use of mounts is kind of vague so I have a couple questions & I'd be thankful for any help :) #1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken? #2 Is it possible to give a mount the trample feat, or does it require the rider (myself) to take the feat? If I give the mount the Improved Overrun feat I assume he cannot take the trample attacks, just knock people prone. I'd like to be able to trample by giving the mount a feat & not having to take it on my paladin if possible. #3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones? #4 What riding skill do I need to fight effectively on a paladin mount? DC5 to guide with knees, but the mount has a link & is intelligent... DC10 to 'fight with warhorse' but again, the mount is linked & is intelligent. What minimum ride skill do I need to fight with my mount? #5 How far can the mount travel & still allow me an attack. (eg can it run x5 speed, or just a double move). and finally #6 If I get an item that gives a feat, namely, Ride by Attack, does it count toward one of the pre-reqs for Spirited Charge? Namely, can I get Mounted Combat as a feat, then get Riding boots, and then get Spirited Charge as a feat? Also, if the boots arn't worn or are in anti-magic then both feats would be disabled I assume. Thank you for all the help! I just got my mount & I'm pretty excited about the possiblities (& I'm hoping to get a unicorn mount @ lvl6 if all goes well!)
kenobi65 09-02-07, 01:32 AM	I don't know all the answers, but... #1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken? No. You advance your mount exactly as it's described in the "Paladin's Mount" section. And, I don't think you can treat your mount as a cohort. #2 Is it possible to give a mount the trample feat, or does it require the rider (myself) to take the feat? If I give the mount the Improved Overrun feat I assume he cannot take the trample attacks, just knock people prone. I'd like to be able to trample by giving the mount a feat & not having to take it on my paladin if possible. Nope. Read the description of Trample closely; it only applies to a mount you're riding / controlling. So, it's the rider who has to take it. #3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones? Tactically, I don't think Run will come up that often; at 4x Move, your mount will get from one side of a battlemat to the other. Improved Natural Weapon is a good one. Your mount can also take feats like Weapon Focus. #6 If I get an item that gives a feat, namely, Ride by Attack, does it count toward one of the pre-reqs for Spirited Charge? Namely, can I get Mounted Combat as a feat, then get Riding boots, and then get Spirited Charge as a feat? Also, if the boots arn't worn or are in anti-magic then both feats would be disabled I assume. My understanding is that yes, this would work, and, yes, if you lose use of the "virtual feat", you'd also lose use of Spirited Charge.
clannagh 09-03-07, 01:21 AM	The rules on advancement of mounts & use of mounts is kind of vague so I have a couple questions & I'd be thankful for any help :) #1 My most ridiculous question: Can you advance the paladin mount with character classes instead of HD? For example, the unicorn in MM has cleric levels. I know it is probably beyond the bounds of the paladin mount HD advancement. Would class levels be possible if the leadership/cohort feat was taken? If your access is cohort OR special mount you can choose which it will be. I can not see it being possible for it to be both however. It will have either the features of a cohort or be a special mount. #3 On the subject of feats, what would be the best feats to give a mount? Run is good, and I'm looking at Imp. Toughness & Imp. Natural weapon. Any other good ones? There is a feat (fleet of foot?) that allows you to make a turn while charging. Thank you for all the help! I just got my mount & I'm pretty excited about the possiblities (& I'm hoping to get a unicorn mount @ lvl6 if all goes well!) Remember that if you qualify for the mount at level 6 your "effective paladin level" is one less than your actual level for paladin level based improvements to the mount. This is probably the most common error made when writing up the stats for unusual paladin Special Mounts.
Rerednaw 09-04-07, 11:31 AM	Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns. I also assume that one requires access.
kenobi65 09-04-07, 12:13 PM	Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns. I also assume that one requires access. In the DMG. I'm not sure if it made it into the SRD. And, yes, for anything other than a heavy warhorse (or a warpony or riding dog, for a Small PC), you need access. Also, I just noted this line in the LGCS (p. 13, under "Paladin Mounts"), which addresses the original question: Advanced paladin mounts gain only what is specifically mentioned in the PH; any such benefits are gained as an animal, not a magical beast.
clannagh 09-04-07, 07:58 PM	Where are the rules on special mounts found? I've read the SRD sections on Leadership, the Paladin class, and Unicorns. I also assume that one requires access. DMG pp204-205 The section is entitled "Mounts" and is not overly easy to follow but if you struggle through it all the information is there.
UMiskatonic 09-11-07, 10:26 PM	LIghting Reflexes is a good feat, make better use of that evasion. I found that after the first spirited charge, I attracted a lot of attention. And, of course, Imp. Flight is golden, assuming your mount has wings in the first place.
BlackNova169 10-05-07, 11:16 PM	I have another question about advancing mounts, specifically their skills. Say we take the standard heavy warhorse. I don't have my MM with me but with the +2HD advancement I think it has about 9 skillpoints total. Can I put these skillpoints whereever I want, or do I have to use the skills listen in the MM (I think they were listen and spot). More generally, what skills are Class Skills for my mount? The main reason I'm asking is because I wanted to train my special (now intelligent) mount with 5 ranks of balance to avoid the common grease spell's flatfooted effects. In fact, the very first mod I played with my new horse he was greased, but when I pointed out that I had trained my horse to balance, he said I could only advance skills the horse already had. I've looked in various books but I havn't seen anything regarding class skills for monsters. I'd like to say that because the mount is intelligent and I personally trained it that I should be able to give it ranks in balance, but without any source its hard to claim anything. Does anyone know anything regarding class skills in monsters?
jstorrie 10-06-07, 04:34 AM	Your mount can have whatever skills you want, but it only has Listen and Spot as class skills for its hit dice, and it'd be a bit ridiculous to give it ranks in skills that a horse/whatever would never learn (so no lockpicking mounts.) As an animal with 8 or less Intelligence, though, your mount will only be getting one skill point per 'level,' and since it doesn't ever really level up you can't have it retrain, either. That means you'll have to dump 10 skill points into Balance, which you can't do until you're character level 8.
BlackNova169 10-06-07, 06:17 PM	Ah ok, so balance would be cross-class, and the mount would have to be HD-7 in order to dump 10 skillpoints in to get 5 ranks in balance. An animal being taught how to balance on slick surfaces doesn't seem too extreme (compared to lockpicking ;p) Your comment on retraining my mount kind of confused me though. When I made my mount I created it 'from scratch' as my own mount from HD-1, giving it skills & feats I thought appropriate. For instance I gave it improved toughness instead of run. Is this the way I was supposed to do it, or was I supposed to take the normal MM heavy warhorse (with its pre-picked feats/skills) and then just add 2 more HD worth of skills? Run & endurance arn't terribly useful, whereas Imp. Toughness and Imp. Natural weapon (the feats I replaced them with) are actually useful.
UMiskatonic 10-06-07, 07:33 PM	You're fine. Jstorrie is referring to a hypothetical situation, and you don't need to worry about it unless you're interested in what the rules -could- do in the set of all possible circumstances. Which, for the record, I am interested in.
copper_wyrmling 10-06-07, 08:48 PM	I actually thought you did have to use the MM feats / skills for the base HD - the PHB paladin mount sidebar says "Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount's kind, as given in the Monster Manual". Do you have a reference otherwise, UMiskatonic? I'd be interested to see it if so.
Mommy was an Orc 10-07-07, 10:01 AM	I actually thought you did have to use the MM feats / skills for the base HD - the PHB paladin mount sidebar says "Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount's kind, as given in the Monster Manual". Do you have a reference otherwise, UMiskatonic? I'd be interested to see it if so. Yeah, that's my take on it too. Unless you've got special access, only the advanced hit dice should get to change. Run's a good feat for a Horse because you've got no choice...
BlackNova169 11-01-07, 09:02 PM	There is a feat (fleet of foot?) that allows you to make a turn while charging. Fleet of foot has the requirement of the Run feat and a dex of 13. Provided my special mount had these pre-reqs, would there be any problem in giving it to my mount as a feat? For a spirited charger, it seems like it would be really good since it's always a pain trying to get a charge lane. I just don't want a GM down the road to tell me that its not allowed if I try to use it, and I don't want to use it if it is, in fact, not allowed. Also, would there be any sort of ride check to 'stay on' as your mount is going through a turn at charge speed? Although I like to picture it as the feat allowing you to quickly accelerate up to charge speed after a turn. Thanks!
Qworg 12-15-07, 02:08 AM	I have never had anyone disallow it - Fleet of Foot is spectacular for any mount. =)