Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 10:09 AM	I have a few questions regarding Prestige Classes which require a specific Alignment as a prerequisite to joining a church or religious order. First of all, if my character is required to be a patron of a Lawful Good church or religious order, is the Alignment of those institutions determined by the Aligment of the Deity these institutions promote, or are religious institutions only required to have Aligments on at least one axis of the Alignment of the Deity they promote to be considered fulfilling this requirement? More specifically, is a 'church' representative of a single 'Deity' or can it represent a more abstract ideal? So for example if my Alignment was Lawful Neutral and I worshipped a Lawful Good Deity and the requirements for taking a lvl in a Prestige Class were belonging to a Lawful Good church, would I qualify? Secondly, I am in Perrenland and I want to know if there are region specific religious orders and if so, where can I find out what they are and what their membership requirements are.
Arvagor 11-30-06, 11:21 AM	Perrenland: http://perrenland.lythia.com/ Without more specifics on the prestige class or church in question, it's a little difficult to say. What is the prestige class? IMO, a church's "alignment" is determined by the deity's alignment. If the particular church in question allows you to belong without your alignment exactly matching its alignment, then you should qualify. There are very few example of pantheonic worship in LG, although I believe Perrenland allows worship of the "Old Faith" -- in such a case, I would say the "church" has no alignment, and would not allow you to qualify, regardless of your alignment.
kenobi65 11-30-06, 11:27 AM	I have a few questions regarding Prestige Classes which require a specific Alignment as a prerequisite to joining a church or religious order. It might help a bit if you gave a specific example from the rules...I *think* I can help answer your questions, but it'd help to see the exact wording of the PrC you're looking at. First of all, if my character is required to be a patron of a Lawful Good church or religious order, is the Alignment of those institutions determined by the Aligment of the Deity these institutions promote, or are religious institutions only required to have Aligments on at least one axis of the Alignment of the Deity they promote to be considered fulfilling this requirement? Generally speaking, the "church" of a deity isn't going to have a specific alignment, unless having that particular alignment is a stated requirement for church membership. For example, Heironeous is Lawful Good. By the D&D rules, clerics of Heironeous could be LG, NG, or LN, and you'd likely find all of the above within the Heironean church. If you had to characterize the church's alignment, you'd probably describe it as LG...but the individual clerics wouldn't necessarily all be LG. More specifically, is a 'church' representative of a single 'Deity' or can it represent a more abstract ideal? So for example if my Alignment was Lawful Neutral and I worshipped a Lawful Good Deity and the requirements for taking a lvl in a Prestige Class were belonging to a Lawful Good church, would I qualify? Generally, church organizations in Living Greyhawk are going to be of a particular deity (or, a group of deities). They aren't going to be to an alignment. Does the wording of the PrC requirements say, "must be a member of the church of Deity X {who happens to be Lawful Good}", or does it say, "must be a member of a Lawful Good church"? The exact wording will help a lot here. Secondly, I am in Perrenland and I want to know if there are region specific religious orders and if so, where can I find out what they are and what their membership requirements are. Time to go check out your region's web resources. Perrenland's web site is at: http://perrenland.rpga-apac.com/main.php There's also a Yahoo Group for Perrenland, which is probably going to be your best bet for region-specific questions. It's at: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/perrenland/
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 11:46 AM	Without more specifics on the prestige class or church in question, it's a little difficult to say. What is the prestige class?. Church Inquisitor. Must belong to a Lawful Good church or organisation. If that means my Deity has to be Lawful Good, then it restricts my choices in regard to other Prestige Classes I may want to take in future. However, if I am only required to be a member of an organisation which is Lawful Good and isn't the Church of my Deity, then Alignment may play only some or no part in determining my eligability for membership. I may only have needed to perform a Lawful Good act or aid them in a quest for whatever personal reasons in order to qualify. This is why I need a list of organisations.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 11:54 AM	It might help a bit if you gave a specific example from the rules...I *think* I can help answer your questions, but it'd help to see the exact wording of the PrC you're looking at. Have a look at my reply to the previous person who posted for the specific information. What you said here is quite helpful and I am going to see if the Perrenland website has a list of local religious organisations. Cheers.
Arvagor 11-30-06, 12:08 PM	Church Inquisitor. Must belong to a Lawful Good church or organisation. If that means my Deity has to be Lawful Good, then it restricts my choices in regard to other Prestige Classes I may want to take in future. However, if I am only required to be a member of an organisation which is Lawful Good and isn't the Church of my Deity, then Alignment may play only some or no part in determining my eligability for membership. I may only have needed to perform a Lawful Good act or aid them in a quest for whatever personal reasons in order to qualify. This is why I need a list of organisations. The requirement for the PrC is "Must be a member of a lawful good church or religious order". Your regional documentation (links already provided) is going to have lists of such organizations. But I think you're going to have to ask more specific questions to the leadership of your region. For example, Veluna has two orders of monks, the Brotherhood of the Vale and the Monastery of the Unseen. The former has requirements of "must worship Rao" and must be of LG or LN alignment. The latter has the same alignment restrictions, but the members may also be worshippers of St. Cuthbert. Both groups are definitely not churchs, although I would certainly consider them religious orders. So what is the alignment of such groups? One could argue that both could be considered Lawful Good organizations, since both Rao and St. Cuthbert are Lawful Good deities; but by allowing LN worshippers, that could mean the org is also considered LN. Since such organizations are regional in nature, interpretations of such matters really need to be done by your region's leadership. OTOH, a group such as Veluna's Mitrik Temple Guard, despite requiring its members to worship Rao, and despite being sworn to the defense of the Church of Rao ("always protect church property and Priests of Rao", always defend worshippers of Rao, "always obey the lawful orders of a Priest of Rao"), they are not considered a church or religious order, but actually a military order.
kenobi65 11-30-06, 02:44 PM	The other issue you're going to run into with Church Inquisitor is the special requirement. I don't have my book in front of me, but I believe there's a requirement along the lines of "must have uncovered corruption within your church." You may or may not ever get that opportunity in regular LG play -- you'd be at the mercy of the writers and Triad in your region, to have happened to include such a plotline within a module. Probably the only other option there is to request a "special mission" from your Triad to give you that experience, and thus, that access. Unfortunately, special missions are usually not a priority for the Triads, and there's no guarantee your request will be granted. The fact that you're looking at Delleb (based on your post in another thread) as your deity probably doesn't help, either, as he's an Oeridian god, whereas your region is predominantly Flan, worshipping the "Old Kerk" gods. There are likely very few worshippers of Delleb in Perrenland, and little in the way of an organized church for your PC to "inquire". Thus, you're probably *never* going to encounter corruption in the church of Delleb in Perrenland, and your Triad may not be particularly interested in creating a special mission module for such an uncommon god. (This is the downside of picking a deity based on domains you want, versus what's common in your region...you can't expect the same level of involvement / support in the regional plotline and orgs.)
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 03:13 PM	The other issue you're going to run into with Church Inquisitor is the special requirement. I don't have my book in front of me, but I believe there's a requirement along the lines of "must have uncovered corruption within your church." You may or may not ever get that opportunity in regular LG play -- you'd be at the mercy of the writers and Triad in your region, to have happened to include such a plotline within a module. Probably the only other option there is to request a "special mission" from your Triad to give you that experience, and thus, that access. Unfortunately, special missions are usually not a priority for the Triads, and there's no guarantee your request will be granted. The fact that you're looking at Delleb (based on your post in another thread) as your deity probably doesn't help, either, as he's an Oeridian god, whereas your region is predominantly Flan, worshipping the "Old Kerk" gods. There are likely very few worshippers of Delleb in Perrenland, and little in the way of an organized church for your PC to "inquire". Thus, you're probably *never* going to encounter corruption in the church of Delleb in Perrenland, and your Triad may not be particularly interested in creating a special mission module for such an uncommon god. (This is the downside of picking a deity based on domains you want, versus what's common in your region...you can't expect the same level of involvement / support in the regional plotline and orgs.) I'll have to see if I can join one of the Lawful Good organisations in Perrenland as a Cleric of Delleb. Whether the Triad would consider making an allowance for some corruption to be discovered is another matter. It wouldn't be hard though, having some minor character caught stealing from the coffers or lying etc. Zone of Truth or some scrying spell could prove effective in unearthing it.
Lupo 11-30-06, 03:30 PM	The other issue you're going to run into with Church Inquisitor is the special requirement. I don't have my book in front of me, but I believe there's a requirement along the lines of "must have uncovered corruption within your church." You may or may not ever get that opportunity in regular LG play -- you'd be at the mercy of the writers and Triad in your region, to have happened to include such a plotline within a module. Probably the only other option there is to request a "special mission" from your Triad to give you that experience, and thus, that access. Unfortunately, special missions are usually not a priority for the Triads, and there's no guarantee your request will be granted. The fact that you're looking at Delleb (based on your post in another thread) as your deity probably doesn't help, either, as he's an Oeridian god, whereas your region is predominantly Flan, worshipping the "Old Kerk" gods. There are likely very few worshippers of Delleb in Perrenland, and little in the way of an organized church for your PC to "inquire". Thus, you're probably *never* going to encounter corruption in the church of Delleb in Perrenland, and your Triad may not be particularly interested in creating a special mission module for such an uncommon god. (This is the downside of picking a deity based on domains you want, versus what's common in your region...you can't expect the same level of involvement / support in the regional plotline and orgs.) the text from the lgcs for church inquisitor is somehow open to interpretation by your TRIAD: LGCS p. 36: Church Inquisitor: The corruption must be either specifically noted on an AR for an adventure or the triad has designated the occurrence as valid. Contact your local triad for more information. but when delleb isn't one of the major deities in your region you will hardly encounter the church in normal modules. and even in core modules they would not pop up every second one, actually i have seen a delleb representative once. since then my druid can become contemplative of delleb :banghead:, he wouldn't even consider it if loosing all his druidic powers and being reincarnated as a pumpkin :D ciao martin m.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 03:53 PM	the text from the lgcs for church inquisitor is somehow open to interpretation by your TRIAD: but when delleb isn't one of the major deities in your region you will hardly encounter the church in normal modules. and even in core modules they would not pop up every second one, actually i have seen a delleb representative once. since then my druid can become contemplative of delleb :banghead:, he wouldn't even consider it if loosing all his druidic powers and being reincarnated as a pumpkin :D ciao martin m. I might as well worship Daoud or Lirr then and get Magic and Travel as domains.
_m_ 12-07-06, 05:15 PM	I might as well worship Daoud or Lirr then and get Magic and Travel as domains. travel i get, but why are you so hung up on the magic domain?
clannagh 12-07-06, 05:36 PM	travel i get, but why are you so hung up on the magic domain? The granted ability for magic is that clerics can use wands scrolls etc like an arcane caster .. in other words pick up a CL5 fireball wand and let fly
clannagh 12-07-06, 05:45 PM	I might as well worship Daoud or Lirr then and get Magic and Travel as domains. If you are a perrender there are substantial advantages to being a member of the old kerk .. to the point that it may even be worth atoning to an old kerk god. The church and the army are the two big forces in perrenland. not Nerull though .. even though he is old kerk open worship of Nerull is frowned upon .... there are also probably enough radiant servants of Pelor in perrenland to last all eternity (though its a great PrC helping clerics excel at being clerics for once) otherwise you can join the non-kerk temples but they do not provide near as much benefit as worshipping one of the core god's
_m_ 12-07-06, 05:53 PM	The granted ability for magic is that clerics can use wands scrolls etc like an arcane caster .. in other words pick up a CL5 fireball wand and let fly i know what it does, it just dosent seem that helpfull. if you really want to be an arcane caster, be an arcane caster. if you want to be a serious arcane casting cleric, be a theurge or hierophant. if you want to be a cleric, their are better domains then magic, imo. of course, you may not think so, but hey, thats what opinions are for. i just think that when the bard, hexsblade, wizard, sorcerer and umd people can all already do that, why sacrifice potentially an entire prc qualification, and some other obviously cheesy domain abilities, just to be able to do what half of everyone else can already do?
Lupo 12-07-06, 06:10 PM	i know what it does, it just dosent seem that helpfull. if you really want to be an arcane caster, be an arcane caster. if you want to be a serious arcane casting cleric, be a theurge or hierophant. if you want to be a cleric, their are better domains then magic, imo. of course, you may not think so, but hey, thats what opinions are for. i just think that when the bard, hexsblade, wizard, sorcerer and umd people can all already do that, why sacrifice potentially an entire prc qualification, and some other obviously cheesy domain abilities, just to be able to do what half of everyone else can already do? mystic theurge and arcane hierophant are way below the raw power curve of a pure cleric. especcially in living greyhawk i don't see them as "good" prestige classes. a cleric with the magic domain can use some arcane items that are moderately low in price, especcially scrolls up to level 3 and wands of 1st and 2nd level spells. in addition with some cheap scrolls you expand your crafting abilities remarkably. i agree that there are some more powerfull domains, but there are also some weaker domains. not every cleric picks one or both out of the most "powered" domains: luck, strength, destruction, travel and to some extend war (when you really want a martial weapon proficiency). ciao martin m. ps: only one of my two lg clerics has exactly one of these :), ok, one of the "not yet brought to a table" characters of me uses destruction and war :D (but he only dips into some three or maybe four levels of cleric, and goes full BAB for the rest).
Britt 12-07-06, 06:17 PM	Mystic Theurge is highly underrated, IMO. You can build some really cool, versatile, and powerful characters with it.
_m_ 12-07-06, 06:36 PM	Mystic Theurge is highly underrated, IMO. You can build some really cool, versatile, and powerful characters with it. i agree. i like the idea of having the power of cleric and wizard at ones disposal. if you have a tome of magic lying around: nocturnmancer. its a theurge, only it has arcane / shadow instead of arcane / divine.
clannagh 12-07-06, 06:36 PM	not every cleric picks one or both out of the most "powered" domains: luck, strength, destruction, travel and to some extend war (when you really want a martial weapon proficiency). ciao martin m. ps: only one of my two lg clerics has exactly one of these :), ok, one of the "not yet brought to a table" characters of me uses destruction and war :D (but he only dips into some three or maybe four levels of cleric, and goes full BAB for the rest). Celerity (the 10' movement bonus is un-named and hence stacks with scout/barabarian etc) and Glory are also good domains. I see war as more for a fighter build that is short of feats and needs weapon focus for a Prc such as Pious Templar. My Bright Sands character is a war/destruction cleric of Gendwar. Travel and Strength really come into there own with Domain Spontaniety.
_m_ 12-07-06, 06:50 PM	Celerity (the 10' movement bonus is un-named and hence stacks with scout/barabarian etc) and Glory are also good domains. I see war as more for a fighter build that is short of feats and needs weapon focus for a Prc such as Pious Templar. My Bright Sands character is a war/destruction cleric of Gendwar. Travel and Strength really come into there own with Domain Spontaniety. if you're in perenland, id really, REALLY think about glory.
Lupo 12-07-06, 06:58 PM	i agree. i like the idea of having the power of cleric and wizard at ones disposal. if you have a tome of magic lying around: nocturnmancer. its a theurge, only it has arcane / shadow instead of arcane / divine. the problem is that a double caster like mystic theurge or arcane hierophant trades in his highest level spell slots and spell progression for additional low level spell slots and another spelllist. in addition one gives up some other class abilities to a certain extend, like turning (ok, that is not so good in lg anyway, unless you are a radiant cleric of mighty cheese) or extra feats. and in addition feel the one feels the need to invest in supplement feats like practiced spellcaster or natural bond. even with a build that uses his turnings to divine metamagic quicken i still would prefer a single class caster at the table. most of the time he just can only pull one spell per round, so in combat he only gets more versatility and more low level spells but lacks the big loads of either damage or healing that are required. mystic theurge gets some additional power squeezed out of the familiar/animal companion hybrid, but to get a really powerfull animal you have to throw in another prestige class, a level of beastmaster and therefore loosing caster progression again. they are nice to have as secondary casters at the table, or makeshift replacement for the real vanilla when neither a straight cleric or wizard is there. btw., is anyone out there with a sorcerer/favoured soul/mystic theurge? this one at least could concentrate on one stat for casting (taking the divine spells for buffing and healing exclusively, so that wisdom isn't important). ciao martin m.
_m_ 12-07-06, 07:52 PM	the problem is that a double caster like mystic theurge or arcane hierophant trades in his highest level spell slots and spell progression for additional low level spell slots and another spelllist. in addition one gives up some other class abilities to a certain extend, like turning (ok, that is not so good in lg anyway, unless you are a radiant cleric of mighty cheese) or extra feats. and in addition feel the one feels the need to invest in supplement feats like practiced spellcaster or natural bond. even with a build that uses his turnings to divine metamagic quicken i still would prefer a single class caster at the table. most of the time he just can only pull one spell per round, so in combat he only gets more versatility and more low level spells but lacks the big loads of either damage or healing that are required. mystic theurge gets some additional power squeezed out of the familiar/animal companion hybrid, but to get a really powerfull animal you have to throw in another prestige class, a level of beastmaster and therefore loosing caster progression again. they are nice to have as secondary casters at the table, or makeshift replacement for the real vanilla when neither a straight cleric or wizard is there. btw., is anyone out there with a sorcerer/favoured soul/mystic theurge? this one at least could concentrate on one stat for casting (taking the divine spells for buffing and healing exclusively, so that wisdom isn't important). ciao martin m. 1 stat focus really isnt very hard. twin 15 then double bump is easily achievable without being gimped, especially with booster items. whilst you dont nescicarily get the high end spells, and in that respect arent quite as powerfull, you get 2x as many spells, from two entirely different schools of magic. alrite, you have slower progresion, but sometimes a lvl 12 wizard and a lvl 12 cleric is better than a lvl 15 wizard.
jstorrie 12-07-06, 08:13 PM	Not many people are Sor/FS because you have to take one more level of each class to qualify for Theurge, putting you even further behind the curve. Not good.
Britt 12-07-06, 08:31 PM	That and Favored Soul kinda sucks.
_m_ 12-07-06, 09:39 PM	That and Favored Soul kinda sucks. lol yrah, its ok for a save boosting 1 drop, but its kind of... not as good as any of its counterparts :D
Japangirl 12-07-06, 10:02 PM	I almost prefer Mystic Theurges to straight clerics, though I suspect that's because I never get to play with straight clerics :(. The theurge I play with a fair amount of the time can't do Heroes Feast yet, which sucks, but he heals and buffs with both divine and arcane buffs. He can dish out the damage, too, when he has too. The party with him is generally a ranger, an evoker, the theurge, a Nature's Warrior druid, and me (fighter/rogue). Things die pretty quickly most of the time.
_m_ 12-07-06, 10:51 PM	it really depends what ur using it for. i mean, a buffing theurge is going to be way better at buffing than a straight buffing wizzard. dmg is not the only way to be up on the curve.
Iswald 12-07-06, 11:02 PM	mystic theurge gets some additional power squeezed out of the familiar/animal companion hybrid, but to get a really powerfull animal you have to throw in another prestige class, a level of beastmaster and therefore loosing caster progression again. I think you meant arcane heirophant here.
Gaelforcwynd 12-08-06, 03:50 AM	a cleric with the magic domain can use some arcane items that are moderately low in price, especcially scrolls up to level 3 and wands of 1st and 2nd level spells. Why only up to 2nd lvl spells? You only need to have the spells on your class list in order to use a wand and wands store up to 4th lvl spells. The Magic Domain allows the Cleric to effectively to become a Wizard of half the Cleric's lvl in regard to spell completion and spell trigger items. This should include using wands of any lvl spell. This is one of the main reasons I consider the Magic Domain so worthwhile.
Gaelforcwynd 12-08-06, 04:09 AM	travel i get, but why are you so hung up on the magic domain? As well as being able to use wands of up to 4th lvl Wizard spells, I would have access to some great Domain Spells. I could cast Identify, which I imagine would be quite useful in relation to magic items. Dispel Magic, which you would always want to have at least one of memorised anyway, could be memorised as a Domain Spell, freeing up slots for regular spells. I can see Imbue with Spell Ability being useful in some situations, but would always have Fly from the Travel Domain in that slot anyway. Spell Resistance would be handy for buffing melee characters. Antimagic Field could be used for support from behind when frontline melee fighters need to wade in against buffed monsters. I can also see Spell Turning and Protection from Spells having their uses. Of course Wish needs no advocation from me. While I would be mostly using the Travel Domain spells in the higher lvls, having access to wands and these Domain Spells seems to me very worthwhile, especially in battle.
Lupo 12-08-06, 04:58 AM	I think you meant arcane heirophant here. uhps :eek: yea, of course ;)
Lupo 12-08-06, 05:07 AM	Why only up to 2nd lvl spells? You only need to have the spells on your class list in order to use a wand and wands store up to 4th lvl spells. The Magic Domain allows the Cleric to effectively to become a Wizard of half the Cleric's lvl in regard to spell completion and spell trigger items. This should include using wands of any lvl spell. This is one of the main reasons I consider the Magic Domain so worthwhile. it's a moral decision :D you know one of those where moral meets money ;) wand 1st level spells: 750 gp wand 2nd level spells: 4500 gp wand 3rd level spells: 11250 gp wand 4th level spells: 21000 gp unless you take craft wand or find lots of bargain wands (those with fewer than maximum charges) it is an expensive hobby. in addition the number of wands my characters have found so far isn't very impressive. ciao martin m.
Lupo 12-08-06, 05:13 AM	I almost prefer Mystic Theurges to straight clerics, though I suspect that's because I never get to play with straight clerics :(. The theurge I play with a fair amount of the time can't do Heroes Feast yet, which sucks, but he heals and buffs with both divine and arcane buffs. He can dish out the damage, too, when he has too. The party with him is generally a ranger, an evoker, the theurge, a Nature's Warrior druid, and me (fighter/rogue). Things die pretty quickly most of the time. that is exactly what i meant, a theurge is fine as backup, but has problems on his or her own. ciao martin m. ps: yea heroe's feast is one of the best cleric spells, especcially at APL 10 and 12. afterwards the characters are somehow sturdier on themselves but still like the taste :D
Iswald 12-08-06, 10:39 AM	I could cast Identify, which I imagine would be quite useful in relation to magic items. Could be but, probably isn't. Everything is identified for free and requires no time for it, at the end of the mod. 100 gold and 1 hour to use it during a mod.
Gaelforcwynd 12-08-06, 11:32 AM	Why only up to 2nd lvl spells? You only need to have the spells on your class list in order to use a wand and wands store up to 4th lvl spells. The Magic Domain allows the Cleric to effectively to become a Wizard of half the Cleric's lvl in regard to spell completion and spell trigger items. This should include using wands of any lvl spell. This is one of the main reasons I consider the Magic Domain so worthwhile. Edit - Sorry I misread your post, I see now that you were referring to cost efficiency of the lower level spells.
Mommy was an Orc 12-08-06, 12:39 PM	it really depends what ur using it for. i mean, a buffing theurge is going to be way better at buffing than a straight buffing wizzard. That's simply not true. When my Buffing/Summoning Wizard is level 7, I'm going to be casting Haste and Polymorph on my fellow party members - what 2nd level spells do you think are going to compete with that? I'll have no qualms about playing up to APL 8 either. The advantage of a Mystic Theurge is that no one expects you to accomplish that much. Pair it with a very well-organized player, and they're not too weak. Mind you, they're not great except at specifically levels 2, 4, 12, 14, and 15, but they're not horrible. But that's a reflection on the player, not the PrC. Utility is way undervalued by most pure casters and by 3.5 in general. A Mystic Theurge doing utility is going to often be better than a pure caster doing boom. They've got three huge weaknesses compared to a pure caster: When they're playing up, they're down 2 spell levels. And the response of a lot of Mystic Theurge players is 'oh, I never play up' - if half of your levels, you're saying you won't play up, that's a weak build. Summon Monster - a lot of summon'd creatures in the high level games can simulate Wizard or Cleric spells. At some points, they actually are Wizards or Clerics. An Avoral that a Wizard can summon at level 13 can do a 65 cure spell with a touch - he then provides defensive values to whoever he's near - then he starts firing off either debuffs or empowered magic missles for the rest of the combat. At level 13, a Mystic Theurge is only casting Cure Critical Wounds for 5d8+13 for an average of about 35 or so. Sure, that Wizard 13 can't do it all day and it takes a full round, but big point here is that a standard Wizard 13 with no specific feats can heal more damage with a single spell than a Mystic Theurge 13 can. Opportunity Cost - the Mystic Theurge is almost certainly spending 1-2 feats on Practiced Spellcaster. That's 1-3 feats to spend on other things by non-Mystic Theurges - Magic of the Land, Arcane Disciple(Healing or Animal), Domain Spontaneity(Clerics), interesting Prestige Classes prereqs especially for extra domains, etc...a near pure Cleric with Domain Spont on Travel and Trickery who picks up the Oracle Domain and say one more useful domain is nearly a Sorcerer in terms of spell choice(hypothetical build: Cleric 5/Ruathar 3/Seeker of the Misty Isle 4/Divine Oracle 2/Contemplative 1 - that's 5 domains, decent reflex saves+evasion in heavy armor and lots of skill points. Yes, there's some access issues, but...) I'm not saying it is impossible to make a Mystic Theurge work, but they're not a strong PrC.
jstorrie 12-08-06, 07:51 PM	If you're going to theurge, it had better be with Pal2/Bard7/Divine Crusader2/Sublime Chord1. And if you're going to do that, you are crazy and I wish you the best of luck, sucker.