Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 09:19 AM	I only have access to the Skill and Feat descriptions in the Core Rules books. I know there are many more non-Core Skills and Feats which can be chosen after 3rd lvl in LG. So I need some information on which non-Core Skills and Feats may help satisfy the requirements to access some Prestige Classes. Firstly I am wondering if there is any way to increase maximum allowed Ranks in a Skill in relation to the Character Level. Secondly, I need to know if there's a way of adding a cross-Class Skill to your Class Skill list, specifically the Survival Skill, by using a Feat or other unique method, besides taking a lvl in a Class which has Survival as a Class Skill. Thirdly, can I find a list of all Skills and Feats used in LG and their descriptions somewhere online?
Arinaad 11-30-06, 10:03 AM	To keep this short and sweet, there is no way to increase your max ranks in a skill except for levelling. I have quickly looked over the builder books and I did not find any feat that grants you survival as a class skill, so you will need to take a level of something that grants it as a class skill, or suck up the levels to get there. Arinaad
pedr 11-30-06, 10:06 AM	There are no skills in LG which aren't in the PHB. Conversely there are *loads* of feats from the various expansion books which WotC has published. The Wizards site seems to be down at the moment, but in the 'Game Rules' section of the D&D site there are consolodated lists of base classes, PrCs and feats which, I think, give a short description of each rules item and which book it is from. I can't think of any way to do the two things that you want, however. I'm almost certain that the max ranks is an absolute limit and that there's no way to exceed it. I don't believe I've seen a feat or ability which adds survival as a class skill, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist; others might be able to help more. Essentially, those two systems (max ranks and cross-class skills) are a way of regulating the 'cost' of entry to a particular PrC - part of the trade off in game-balance terms for the abilities you gain from the class. Hope that helps a bit!
clik_ml 11-30-06, 10:20 AM	I only have access to the Skill and Feat descriptions in the Core Rules books. I know there are many more non-Core Skills and Feats which can be chosen after 3rd lvl in LG. So I need some information on which non-Core Skills and Feats may help satisfy the requirements to access some Prestige Classes. Firstly I am wondering if there is any way to increase maximum allowed Ranks in a Skill in relation to the Character Level. Secondly, I need to know if there's a way of adding a cross-Class Skill to your Class Skill list, specifically the Survival Skill, by using a Feat or other unique method, besides taking a lvl in a Class which has Survival as a Class Skill. Thirdly, can I find a list of all Skills and Feats used in LG and their descriptions somewhere online? 1st) it is impossible to have skill ranks higher than 3+character level. 2nd) Really the easiest way is to take a class that has survival on its class list (barbarian, druid, ranger, cleric with travel domain, countless prestige classes, etc.). I don't recall any LG-legal feats that add Survival as a class skill with the exception of Draconic Heritage(bronze) for a sorcerer. With a more specific notion of what you had in mind for a build, I bet somebody could come up with a way to work in a class that has survival as a class skill to your build. 3rd) LG uses all the skills in the PHB, no more, no less. With documented AR access one may gain the ability to utilize variant skill uses from non-core books, making the existing skills more versatile.. For feats, all PHB feats are core, and the LGCS document lists all the core feats from other books (along with the restricted and NPC-only feats). Anything else from allowed books is considered limited, meaning you will require finding access in order to take those feats. A lot of the questions you've been posting lately are addressed in the LGCS. If you don't want to filter through handy pdf document, there is a web-based version hosted by the Theocracy of the Pale region's site. http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/lgcs/intro.html
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 10:57 AM	For feats, all PHB feats are core, and the LGCS document lists all the core feats from other books (along with the restricted and NPC-only feats). Anything else from allowed books is considered limited, meaning you will require finding access in order to take those feats. A lot of the questions you've been posting lately are addressed in the LGCS. If you don't want to filter through handy pdf document, there is a web-based version hosted by the Theocracy of the Pale region's site. http://www.theocracyofthepale.com/gamerules/lgcs/intro.html I only own a hardcopy of the PHD, DMG, MM and SpC. The LGCS, while referencing the relevant sources, only lists the Feats but doesn't contain any details. I was hoping to pick your brains regarding the material I cannot access physically. I haven't participated in a 3.5 Edition game of D&D yet, so I am seeking advice from seasoned players regarding the practical application of rules. Thank you for your help.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 11:02 AM	I have quickly looked over the builder books and I did not find any feat that grants you survival as a class skill Thanks, I haven't been able to get my hands on those supplimentary books to check other Feats, short of buying them all.
kenobi65 11-30-06, 11:13 AM	Just to clarify what others have indicated on skills vs. feats... Generally speaking, WotC almost never adds additional skills to the rules. Fundamentally, the skills in the PHB, plus the couple of extra psionic skills in the Expanded Psionics Handbook (which LG doesn't use anyway) are all the skills in D&D. Some of the expansion books have introduced new uses for skills, but they don't add new skills to the system. OTOH, as others have noted, the expansion books have added hundreds of feats to the game...some of which LG uses, some of which it doesn't. While it's indeed impossible to exceed (level+3) in ranks in a class skill, there are lots of ways to get additional modifiers to a particular skill. It sounds like Survival is a skill you're interested in. You can increase your total modifier in Survival via: - Increases in your Wisdom score (Periapt of Wisdom, ability score bumps every 4 levels) - Skill synergy (several Knowledge skills, as well as Search, give bonuses to Survival in relevant situations; the list is at the end of the description of the Survival skill in the PHB) - Feats (Skill Focus and Self-Sufficient would give bonuses to Survival) - Metaorganizational membership often gives circumstance bonuses to skills; any sort of metaorg focused on travel / outdoors skills likely will give a bonus to Survival Hope this helps.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 11:40 AM	With a more specific notion of what you had in mind for a build, I bet somebody could come up with a way to work in a class that has survival as a class skill to your build. I'm starting off with a Human, Elf or Half-Elf Cleric, depending on what Prestige Classes are practicable. Alignment will be Lawful Good or Lawful Neural. Deity will probably be Delleb. Starting Domains will be Magic and either Knowledge, Mind, Oracle or Rune. My aim is to have access to the Magic and Travel Domains without restricting Prestige Classes available to the character by Alignment. Only Daoud and Lirr provide these Domains. Ultimately, I want to try to gain the benefits of extra Domains and powers from Prestige Classes, while also having access to the Magic and Travel Domains. What I'm trying to do is see if I can get my Cleric 8 Ranks in Survival without taking the Travel Domain, so I can access Seeker of the Misty Isle. If there was a way to get Survival as a Class Skill, I could gain the Travel Domain and Martial Weapon access though this Prestige Class. Otherwise it would take a long time and the character would be most of the way through his career before meeting the requirements. Taking a lvl in Barbarian or Ranger might be a good way to fulfill these criteria, but I would be forced to take other Skills I don't need in order to spend the Skill Points. Another query, once you gain Class Skills through Multi-Classing, are maximum Ranks in newly aquired Skills determined retrospectively by Character Level or just the lvl in new Class through which you aquired those Skills? I have the idea of taking a lvl of Church Inquisitor as soon as I can. I would gain the Inquisition Domain and Detect Evil at will. From there, if I had Survival as a Class Skill I would look at taking a lvl in Seeker of the Misty Isle as soon as possible. Then I would gain the Travel Domain and Martial Weapon proficiency. Then I would either advance in Cleric or Church Inquisitor lvl's until I had 13 Ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and take a lvl in Contemplative, gaining whichever other Domain I hadn't already accessed (Knowledge, Mind, Oracle, Rune). All these Prestige Classes allow normal advancement in Cleric spellcasting lvl's, but penalise the Saving Throws, which is why I will probably only take 1 lvl in each, unless a 2nd or 3rd lvl ability makes it really worthwhile. By this time I would be close to retirement and would need to decide which Class to invest the rest of my lvl's in. That's roughly the plan. Thanks for your input.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 11:42 AM	It's Ranks that I need in Survival. Thanks anyway.
kenobi65 11-30-06, 11:45 AM	Taking a lvl in Barbarian or Ranger might be a good way to fulfill these criteria, but I would be forced to take other Skills I don't need in order to spend the Skill Points. You can always spend the skill points from that level on skills you'd take as a cleric (though likely at the two-for-one cross-class rate). Another query, once you gain Class Skills through Multi-Classing, are maximum Ranks in newly aquired Skills determined retrospectively by Character Level or just the lvl in new Class through which you aquired those Skills? Maximum ranks are (level+3) if it's a class skill for any of your classes. Thus, once you take a level of Ranger, Survival will be a class skill for you forevermore, for purposes of maximum ranks. However, the cost for buying a rank in that skill depend on your "current" class...i.e., if you take a level of Ranger, and max out your ranks in Survival, then go back to Cleric the next time you gain a level, it'll cost you 2 skill points to buy 1 rank in Survival (because Survival is still cross-class for clerics).
Arvagor 11-30-06, 11:50 AM	What I'm trying to do is see if I can get my Cleric 8 Ranks in Survival without taking the Travel Domain, so I can access Seeker of the Misty Isle. Just an FYI... Per the LGCS, even though Seeker of the Misty Isle is a 'Core' prestige class, it still requires an invitation of some kind to join -- either an invitation as an AR reward, or an invitation from another player at the same table who is already a member of the PrC. IMHO, it's never a good idea to "count" on gaining access to classes like that... ;)
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 12:06 PM	Just an FYI... Per the LGCS, even though Seeker of the Misty Isle is a 'Core' prestige class, it still requires an invitation of some kind to join -- either an invitation as an AR reward, or an invitation from another player at the same table who is already a member of the PrC. IMHO, it's never a good idea to "count" on gaining access to classes like that... ;) Yeah, dammit.
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 12:11 PM	I'll have to look at all the Prestige Classes again and see which one's might become more accessible though taking a Warrior lvl. This could be worthwhile just to gain the Feats, Hitpoints and weapon access of Warriors. I am mainly concerned with Prestige Classes which don't restrict spellcaster advancement though.
Arvagor 11-30-06, 12:16 PM	I'll have to look at all the Prestige Classes again and see which one's might become more accessible though taking a Warrior lvl. This could be worthwhile just to gain the Feats, Hitpoints and weapon access of Warriors. I am mainly concerned with Prestige Classes which don't restrict spellcaster advancement though. Sorry. No Warrior either. Remember, despite what you may think, the LGCS is your friend! ;)
Gaelforcwynd 11-30-06, 01:33 PM	Sorry. No Warrior either. Remember, despite what you may think, the LGCS is your friend! ;) Yeah I meant Barbarian or Ranger.