Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DuctShuiTengu 06-14-07, 04:23 PM	So, I came up with this idea a while back (shortly after getting my copy of Complete Arcane) but was never quite happy enough with it to actually make the character. Given that there's a couple newer PrCs that could help fill in some gaps, I thought I'd post it up here to see if other people could help me iron out some of the kinks. Halfling (tentative decision, could change) Str 8, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8 Rogue 1: Two-Weapon Fighting Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll Wizard 2: Quick Draw Wizard 3: +1 Int Wizard 4 Wizard 5: Craft Wand, Dual Wand Wielder Rogue 2 Rogue 3: +1 Int Arcane Trickster 1: Practiced Spellcaster (or Craft Wondrous Item) Arcane Trickster 2 Arcane Trickster 3 Arcane Trickster 4: <Undecided Feat> +1 Int Arcane Trickster 5 Arcane Trickster 6 Arcane Trickster 7: <Undecided Feat> The idea here is to have the rogue skills for dealing with traps (and ideally, locks as well, though I can probably work around that one if necessary), while providing arcane spell casting for the party. In combat, either provide battlefield control spells and let others mop up the bad guys, or drop a Greater Invisibility and then use the wands to start flinging appropriate orbs (with 2 a round and decent sneak-attack progression, I should be able to provide a decent amount of damage in situations where that's what's needed) The main area that I’m unhappy with is the 2 Rogue levels at 7 and 8, which bring me to 3 levels behind on caster progression. While I don't really foresee the loss of caster level being too much of a problem, being behind another spell level easily could be. Also, suggestions on feats there towards the end would be appreciated. (Other advice is welcome as always, but these are the main things I'm looking for)
TWG_Prometheus 06-14-07, 05:18 PM	Take a look at Unseen Seer from Complete Mage. The entry prerequisites are much easier for a Rogue/Wizard allowing you to get to where you want to be much quicker. Arcane Trickster always suffered from starting off too late to be convincing. I'd also recommend Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot over the Dual Wand Wielder route. Even Touch AC can be hard to hit with a -4 penalty and a poor BAB. You can retrain them out later if needed.
UMiskatonic 06-14-07, 05:20 PM	TWF at first level seems like a waste. It will mean that you miss twice a round instead of once. I'd switch it with quickdraw. Other than that, you can minimize caster levels lost with rogue1/wizard 5/geometer 5, or rogue 1/wizard 5/unseen seer X/arcane trickster Y. Have you looked at spellwarp sniper? That might do well for you as well.
TWG_Prometheus 06-14-07, 05:46 PM	TWF at first level seems like a waste. It will mean that you miss twice a round instead of once. I'd switch it with quickdraw. Quick Draw requires a BAB.
Lupo 06-14-07, 06:59 PM	So, I came up with this idea a while back (shortly after getting my copy of Complete Arcane) but was never quite happy enough with it to actually make the character. Given that there's a couple newer PrCs that could help fill in some gaps, I thought I'd post it up here to see if other people could help me iron out some of the kinks. Halfling (tentative decision, could change) Str 8, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 16, Wis 8, Cha 8 Rogue 1: Two-Weapon Fighting Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll Wizard 2: Quick Draw Wizard 3: +1 Int Wizard 4 Wizard 5: Craft Wand, Dual Wand Wielder Rogue 2 Rogue 3: +1 Int Arcane Trickster 1: Practiced Spellcaster (or Craft Wondrous Item) Arcane Trickster 2 Arcane Trickster 3 Arcane Trickster 4: <Undecided Feat> +1 Int Arcane Trickster 5 Arcane Trickster 6 Arcane Trickster 7: <Undecided Feat> The idea here is to have the rogue skills for dealing with traps (and ideally, locks as well, though I can probably work around that one if necessary), while providing arcane spell casting for the party. In combat, either provide battlefield control spells and let others mop up the bad guys, or drop a Greater Invisibility and then use the wands to start flinging appropriate orbs (with 2 a round and decent sneak-attack progression, I should be able to provide a decent amount of damage in situations where that's what's needed) The main area that I’m unhappy with is the 2 Rogue levels at 7 and 8, which bring me to 3 levels behind on caster progression. While I don't really foresee the loss of caster level being too much of a problem, being behind another spell level easily could be. Also, suggestions on feats there towards the end would be appreciated. (Other advice is welcome as always, but these are the main things I'm looking for) nearly my build for the greyhawk story arc :) after unseen seer is now open prestige class, just substitute rogue 2 with one level of unseen seer, so you only loose two "real" caster levels and end up with 7th level spells. quicken spell combined with metamagic spell trigger let you use three wands per round - first burns one charge second two charges and third five charges - so better use only zero or first level wands with this ;) Rogue 1: Two-Weapon Fighting Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll Wizard 2: Quick Draw Wizard 3: +1 Int Wizard 4 Wizard 5: Craft Wand, Dual Wand Wielder Unseen Seer 1: Rogue 2: +1 Int Arcane Trickster 1: Craft Wondrous Item Arcane Trickster 2 Arcane Trickster 3 Arcane Trickster 4: quicken spell +1 Int Arcane Trickster 5 Arcane Trickster 6 Arcane Trickster 7: metamagic spell trigger i am planning this with a grey elf, i just like the mini :D, but halfling is actually even better, for the additional +1 on attack. ciao martin m.
JamesMaissen 06-14-07, 10:55 PM	Also, suggestions on feats there towards the end would be appreciated. (Other advice is welcome as always, but these are the main things I'm looking for) Okay, as other people have mentioned Unseen Seer is a good PrC. It's what Arcane Trickster should have been to start. It gives 6+INT skills and the skills bleed to enter into it isn't as bad as Trickster is. It also gives a Rogue based BAB rather than the Trickster's Wizard BAB. Secondly, you will need to retrain skills and even still crossclass a few times to achieve the following build. I'll leave you to figure out the particulars (or Andy will find this thread and help you out with it as I know he's done it all out with more strict requirements). Regardless you will need to plan out your skills as that's a good part of what makes a Rogue stay a Rogue. Dual Wand Wielder is a good feat and has some good uses. But like using consumables with anything if you handle them poorly, you will suffer for it. Be more than a one trick pony and you'll be fine. I'd go with a Rogue1/Wizard5/US4 build at the very least. Take a look at your skills and see if Arcane Trickster has a place for you after level 10 or if you are better off continuing with Unseen Seer. As to feats, you've listed the main ones for low level. With this build practiced caster can compete with quick draw (pity you can't quick sheathe as well.. though unseen servant is a nice spell in that regard) for the otherwise bad levels of AT (ie 7-9). By this point you will have seen how much quick draw is worth to you, and how you've suffered (or not) from a lack of having Craft Wondrous Items. At 9th level you should have a good view for yourself which two of the three feats you want to have. A proper amount of Pearl 1s will be what you are missing here as you will burn through 1st level swift spells at a good speed. By 12th level craft wondrous would come on line a bit too late, so 9th is where it shows up by or it doesn't appear. By 12th you might wish to look to more traditional wizard type feats to employ. Likely you won't need quicken as you'll have a slew of 1st level swift spells that you regularly use, but you may find use for some of the higher end feats from Complete Arcane and Complete Adventurer to suit you. -James
Timlagor 06-16-07, 11:48 AM	Lupo take Rogue 2 before US1 and you save yourself a whole bunch of skillpoint hassle.
Lupo 06-17-07, 09:34 AM	Lupo take Rogue 2 before US1 and you save yourself a whole bunch of skillpoint hassle. uhps, yes, should be the other way round, just accidentally switched them ;), otherwise the necessary skillpoints for unseen seer would be expensive. Rogue 1: Two-Weapon Fighting Wizard 1: Scribe Scroll Wizard 2: Quick Draw Wizard 3: +1 Int Wizard 4 Wizard 5: Craft Wand, Dual Wand Wielder Rogue 2: +1 Int Unseen Seer 1:Arcane Trickster 1: Craft Wondrous Item, + 1 int Arcane Trickster 2 Arcane Trickster 3 Arcane Trickster 4: quicken spell +1 Int Arcane Trickster 5 Arcane Trickster 6 Arcane Trickster 7: metamagic spell trigger ciao martin m.
copper_wyrmling 06-18-07, 06:55 AM	I don't have my books with me atm (they're all in storage in the US), but does metamagic spell trigger work with quicken? I remember looking at that combination for my sorcerer (who has very high UMD and a lot of metamagic feats), and thinking that it wouldn't work - because wands of quickened spells still take a standard action to activate.
Lupo 06-18-07, 08:48 AM	I don't have my books with me atm (they're all in storage in the US), but does metamagic spell trigger work with quicken? I remember looking at that combination for my sorcerer (who has very high UMD and a lot of metamagic feats), and thinking that it wouldn't work - because wands of quickened spells still take a standard action to activate. metamagic spell trigger has the example of the feat not be applicable to spell from a staff to be quickened IF the spell would end up higher than level 9, otherwise the thing seems to be fine. ciao martin m.
DuctShuiTengu 06-18-07, 10:57 AM	Thanks for the suggestions. Just a few quick questions: Prometheus: I looked at point blank and precise shot, but I don't really see that they'll be that necessary. With a decent portion of my damage coming from sneak attack, I'm going to be doing my best to make sure that my targets are flat-footed when I'm throwing around rays. Flat Footed Touch AC should be low enough that even with the -4 for firing into melee, I should be able to hit reliably. Lupo: Is Evasion from that 2nd level of Rogue really worth the lost caster level? Also, having looked at Unseen Seer, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to stick with it at least for a while longer before switching to Arcane Trickster (Or even drop AT all-together and stay with Unseen Seer). I'm also unsure about whether the metamagic spell trigger idea is worth the investment, but that's far enough down the line that I can wait to make that decision. JamesMaissen: With the number of lost caster levels having dropped to 2 (or possibly even 1), is Practiced Spellcaster really still worth a feat? Quick Draw is there to let me get both wands out and use them in a single round (though this may be less necessary than I'd originally anticipated, since I'll likely be using the first round for a Greater Invisibility when I'm wanding and can draw wands and move in that round.) Thanks for the warning about the possible problems with overusing wands, though between rogue skills out of combat, and wizard spells both in and out, I think I should be okay.
Timlagor 06-18-07, 11:40 AM	I don't have my books with me atm (they're all in storage in the US), but does metamagic spell trigger work with quicken? I remember looking at that combination for my sorcerer (who has very high UMD and a lot of metamagic feats), and thinking that it wouldn't work - because wands of quickened spells still take a standard action to activate. It definitely works for the Artificer ability of that name (Quicken is even used as an example).
Sieylianna 06-18-07, 12:24 PM	Thanks for the suggestions. Just a few quick questions: Prometheus: I looked at point blank and precise shot, but I don't really see that they'll be that necessary. With a decent portion of my damage coming from sneak attack, I'm going to be doing my best to make sure that my targets are flat-footed when I'm throwing around rays. Flat Footed Touch AC should be low enough that even with the -4 for firing into melee, I should be able to hit reliably. If the target has cover, something that happens a lot in melee situations, it's another -4 to hit. So you're looking at a lot of attacks at -8. Your foes are only flat-footed the first round of combat (barring invisibility, etc). Ed
Lupo 06-18-07, 03:50 PM	Thanks for the suggestions. Just a few quick questions: <snip>Lupo: Is Evasion from that 2nd level of Rogue really worth the lost caster level? Also, having looked at Unseen Seer, I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better to stick with it at least for a while longer before switching to Arcane Trickster (Or even drop AT all-together and stay with Unseen Seer). I'm also unsure about whether the metamagic spell trigger idea is worth the investment, but that's far enough down the line that I can wait to make that decision.<snip> i like the evasion for a very low on hp character :), and the sneak dice for arcane trickster are coming in faster than for unseen seer. and going further unseen seer would make "practiced spellcaster" mandatory again, a feat that i would like to not spend. the arcane trickster also has more skills in common with the rogue than the unseen seer - ok, the unseen seer gets some two skill points more per level for compensation - but both would be needed to keep "disable device" and "tumble" at maximum. ciao martin m.
JamesMaissen 06-18-07, 04:51 PM	Thanks for the suggestions. Just a few quick questions: JamesMaissen: With the number of lost caster levels having dropped to 2 (or possibly even 1), is Practiced Spellcaster really still worth a feat? Quick Draw is there to let me get both wands out and use them in a single round (though this may be less necessary than I'd originally anticipated, since I'll likely be using the first round for a Greater Invisibility when I'm wanding and can draw wands and move in that round.) Thanks for the warning about the possible problems with overusing wands, though between rogue skills out of combat, and wizard spells both in and out, I think I should be okay. Well Unseen Seer lowers your caster level on casting nondivination spells so there is some pressure to balance that out. I put it down as something to consider. It's value will depend upon how you are playing your character and roles he needs to fill. Also you will by 9th have a solid idea of how valuable quick draw is for you and how much CWI will allow you to do (getting more Pearl 1s alone).. but the later will be mitigated by how much time you spend crafting wands. Most likely you will be happy without Practiced Caster. However if you don't consider it fully you will feel a nagging thought that you should have it even when that's not truely the case. Being down in CL can be quite annoying, especially at breakpoints. If you think it fully through though you'll have no regrets. As far as dealing with cover and lack of precise shot mentioned by another poster, this can be a concern for some ranged touch builds. It won't be an issue for you. -James
copper_wyrmling 06-18-07, 11:28 PM	Prometheus: I looked at point blank and precise shot, but I don't really see that they'll be that necessary. With a decent portion of my damage coming from sneak attack, I'm going to be doing my best to make sure that my targets are flat-footed when I'm throwing around rays. Flat Footed Touch AC should be low enough that even with the -4 for firing into melee, I should be able to hit reliably. Also note that if you can aim at a square 10ft away from your ally (usually possible if the creature is Huge or larger, sometimes possible if they're Large) you can ignore the -4 for firing into melee (PHB p140).
Lupo 06-19-07, 08:14 AM	Also note that if you can aim at a square 10ft away from your ally (usually possible if the creature is Huge or larger, sometimes possible if they're Large) you can ignore the -4 for firing into melee (PHB p140). :eek: there are no attacks on "parts" of a creature in the current rules, with the exception of some few critters with long tentacles - and there the special possibility to attack specific body parts is mentioned in the monster description. the whole paragraph is moot for large and bigger critters as long as they occupy a square directly adjacent to your allies, except that one doesn't take the -4 for shooting at critters that attack with reach weapons or have natural reach AND there is a gap of at least 10-ft between your allies and the critter. it is the same silly "no go" as some claim that as long as they are riding a large mount, they can attack with a reach weapon (lance:)) from one of the back squares to hit foes directly in front of them. anyway, critters that are huge normally have such a lousy touch AC that almost every attack will hit them, as long as you don't roll 1s :). ciao martin m. edit: if there WERE attacks possible at certain parts of a critter, close quarter fighting wouldn't be so plutonized . . . i would really appreciate it :)
Mommy was an Orc 06-19-07, 09:21 AM	i like the evasion for a very low on hp character :), and the sneak dice for arcane trickster are coming in faster than for unseen seer. and going further unseen seer would make "practiced spellcaster" mandatory again, a feat that i would like to not spend. the arcane trickster also has more skills in common with the rogue than the unseen seer - ok, the unseen seer gets some two skill points more per level for compensation - but both would be needed to keep "disable device" and "tumble" at maximum. ciao martin m. An Unseen Seer shouldn't technically be a 'low hit point' character for very long. False Life + Amulet of Health = solid hit points. If you've got an Amulet of Health +4(crafting) and are casting False Life at 8th, even with a starting Con of 12, a Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 2 will have about 61 hit points. That doesn't even include the advantages of casting Blink or Greater Invis on your hit points. Where a normal Rogue 8 with an Amulet of Health +2 and 14 Con will have 58 hit points. And losing a 2nd caster level is painful. With only 1 caster level loss, you're a primary caster half the time. It means you're waiting one more level for Blink/Greater Invis/Greater Blink. Also, if you're willing to spend some TUs/cash, the lack of Disable Device/Tumbling isn't a problem. Every 4 levels, you retrain the extra 8 skill points into Disable Device/Tumbling - in essence getting two extra skills for a minor amount of gold - would you pay 2200 gold for an item that gave you +8 skill points? As a skill monkey, I'd certainly would. Finally, don't forget Guided Shot - useful spell for negating cover and concealment.
Lupo 06-19-07, 09:44 AM	An Unseen Seer shouldn't technically be a 'low hit point' character for very long. False Life + Amulet of Health = solid hit points. If you've got an Amulet of Health +4(crafting) and are casting False Life at 8th, even with a starting Con of 12, a Rogue 1/Wizard 5/Unseen Seer 2 will have about 61 hit points. That doesn't even include the advantages of casting Blink or Greater Invis on your hit points. Where a normal Rogue 8 with an Amulet of Health +2 and 14 Con will have 58 hit points. And losing a 2nd caster level is painful. With only 1 caster level loss, you're a primary caster half the time. It means you're waiting one more level for Blink/Greater Invis/Greater Blink. Also, if you're willing to spend some TUs/cash, the lack of Disable Device/Tumbling isn't a problem. Every 4 levels, you retrain the extra 8 skill points into Disable Device/Tumbling - in essence getting two extra skills for a minor amount of gold - would you pay 2200 gold for an item that gave you +8 skill points? As a skill monkey, I'd certainly would. Finally, don't forget Guided Shot - useful spell for negating cover and concealment. the problem lies partly in the requirements for unseen seer ;) Skills: Hide 8, Search 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, Spot 8 to take unseen seer 1 at level 6, one has to spend either 24 skillpoints for cross class skills for a wizard OR pay for retraining during the very first levels. ciao martin m. <edit> i have checked my build for rogue/wizard/unseen seer/arcane trickster, it already needs 8 cross-class ranks (actually only 6 but i think the balance 5 and jump 5 are worth it) without the second rogue level this would explode to 26 (24) ranks, together with the needed ranks in spellcraft, this would consume all your 30 skillpoints you get in total for the five levels of wizard. and you cant reduce all of these with retrainings, as you only can swap ranks from ONE skill to ONE other per retraining.
Mommy was an Orc 06-19-07, 04:48 PM	the problem lies partly in the requirements for unseen seer ;) Skills: Hide 8, Search 8, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 4, Spot 8 to take unseen seer 1 at level 6, one has to spend either 24 skillpoints for cross class skills for a wizard OR pay for retraining during the very first levels. ciao martin m. I think if you're going Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10, retraining should be considered a must, throughout the build. 4(Search), 5(Spot), 6(Disable Device), 7(Tumbling), 9(Disable Device), 10(Tumbling), 13(Disable Device), 14(Tumbling) - that does cost 6800 gold and 32 TUs. But you actually end up with about 19 or so extra skill points for doing that - given how useless Escape Artist and Decipher Script are generally going to be for a wizard and that Escape Artist/Disable Device need to be cross-classed, even if you have an 18 Int Human/20 Int Grey Elf.
DuctShuiTengu 06-19-07, 05:40 PM	Hmm... number-crunching on how to meet the skill requirements (assuming I stick with the original build, but substitute 2 levels of US for the latter 2 levels of Rogue) has me coming up with the following: DS 4, DD 4, EA 4, Hi 4, K(L) 4, OL 4, Se 4, SM 4, Sp 4, Tu 4, UMD 4 Cn 5, K(L)->K(A) 4 Cn 6, K(N) 4, UMD-> SC 4 Cn 7, K(R) 4, K(N)->DD 7 Cn 8, Sp 6, K(R)->Se8 Cn 9, Sp 8, OL->Hi 8 Cn 10, DS 7, Se 10, K(R) 4 Cn 11, K(A) 5, Se 11, SC 11 K(R)->EA 7 "Final" skill-list: Concentration 11, Decipher Script 7, Disable Device 7, Escape Artist 7, Hide 8, Knowledge(Arcana) 5, Knowledge (Religion) 1, Search 11, Sense Motive 4, Spellcraft 11, Spot 8, and Tumble 4; costs 2,800 gold and 24 TUs. Anyone seeing a better way to do this (Aside from the obvious answer of getting more skill points by being human or grey-elf)?
Lupo 06-19-07, 06:08 PM	I think if you're going Rogue 1/Wizard 4/Unseen Seer 10, retraining should be considered a must, throughout the build. 4(Search), 5(Spot), 6(Disable Device), 7(Tumbling), 9(Disable Device), 10(Tumbling), 13(Disable Device), 14(Tumbling) - that does cost 6800 gold and 32 TUs. But you actually end up with about 19 or so extra skill points for doing that - given how useless Escape Artist and Decipher Script are generally going to be for a wizard and that Escape Artist/Disable Device need to be cross-classed, even if you have an 18 Int Human/20 Int Grey Elf. and this type of build is exactly why i think "retraining" will not be as liberal in the campaign as it is today :) besides, burning so much of ones money for retraining seems silly, especially for a wizard who needs some money to scribe scrolls and copy spells. and your build is missing the 5th wizard level, something that costs another feat. ciao martin m.
Timlagor 06-21-07, 04:37 PM	:eek: there are no attacks on "parts" of a creature in the current rules, with the exception of some few critters with long tentacles - and there the special possibility to attack specific body parts is mentioned in the monster description. Actually you can target any square of a creature. This is not the same as targetting a 'body part'.
Mommy was an Orc 06-21-07, 04:59 PM	and this type of build is exactly why i think "retraining" will not be as liberal in the campaign as it is today :) besides, burning so much of ones money for retraining seems silly, especially for a wizard who needs some money to scribe scrolls and copy spells. and your build is missing the 5th wizard level, something that costs another feat. ciao martin m. I think a lot of skill monkeys would easily pay 6800 gold for 19 extra skill points over 15 levels. It also isn't an impossible build without retraining. Retraining just boosts how many skill points you have and makes it so you don't need a superhigh Int. That's also really overvaluing the feat that level 5 provides - Wizard 5 gives you no benefit to BAB, saves, only gives you 2 skill points. The feat isn't worth it - do you realize you're going to have a +3 BAB at 9th level? How do you expect to consistently hit with your wand attacks when shooting into melee?
copper_wyrmling 06-21-07, 07:57 PM	Actually you can target any square of a creature. This is not the same as targetting a 'body part'. Yeah - this is why the cover rules work the way they do (if I have a clear shot to one square of a large creature, then I have a clear shot). To quote the exact rule from PHB p140 (I assumed people would just look it up, but I guess I was wrong): "If your target (or the part of your target you're aiming at, if it's a big target) is at least 10 feet away from the nearest friendly character, you can avoid the -4 penalty, even if the creature you're aiming at is engaged in melee with a friendly character." That seems pretty clear to me.
Grantor 06-22-07, 05:21 PM	Could someone briefly describe how this character plays during combat, say at 3rd level, 6th level and 12th level? What types of fights is this character good at and which situtations are the bane for this character? Thanks!
Lupo 06-22-07, 05:48 PM	Could someone briefly describe how this character plays during combat, say at 3rd level, 6th level and 12th level? What types of fights is this character good at and which situtations are the bane for this character? Thanks! ok, the basics of a ranged attacking arcane trickster are simple low level spells that DO hit and carry some additional d6es from sneak attack. as any arcane trickster starts with a level of rogue (ok, scout might work, but let's stick with the basic :)) the first level is a slightly suboptimal rogue, but not as bad that one can't score a hit with an additional d6 from time to time. at level 3 the arcane trickster wannabe already has two levels of wizard, so a small number of arcane spells can be used as well. the moment such a rogue 1/wiz2 can catch a foe flatfooted, he can use a simple "acid splash" for some damage that isn't much less than a magic missile. some other spells can be used to buff party members, like "enlarge person" or make even more foes flatfooted "grease". level 6 is a nice one, no matter how you build it, now the character is something like rogue 1/wizard 5 or maybe rogue 1/wizard 4/unseen seer 1. so there are the nice spell options like "glitterdust" and "scorching ray", having "guided shot" is a nice tool for such a character. with only one spellcaster level behind a full caster one can still be THE arcane caster, as long as one doesn't play up :). at level 9 the caster level is down by two (one for the unseen seer variant) but with some careful skill point allocation and maybe a retraining here and there such a character can still be a respectable trap finder and device disabler ;) at level 12 there are some 4 d6es of sneak attack on a lot of ones attack, and getting the foes flatfooted wit a grease or glitterdust or because the arcane trickster is invisible . :D ciao martin m.
Hariman 06-29-07, 08:31 PM	And losing a 2nd caster level is painful. With only 1 caster level loss, you're a primary caster half the time. It means you're waiting one more level for Blink/Greater Invis/Greater Blink. I second this: DON'T LOSE TWO CASTER LEVELS!!!!! IT WILL KILL YOUR CHARACTER AT EVEN LEVELS!!! I say this so Vehemently because I'm playing a rogue2/Conjurer3, and I wish I could get rid of the second level of rogue. Evasion doesn't really do that much. With 16 Con and Halfling (STAY HALFLING, +1 to all saves and ability/skill bonuses help A LOT.) You'll be getting 6 HP a level, and if you do take the prior advice of other posters, an Amulet of Health will give your character 38 HP at level 5. That is pretty damn good at that level. Evasion also only saves you from HALF of the damage of a spell. If you fail your save (As I have, and died three time because of it even WITH evasion.) you take full damage. If you make your save, without evasion, you take half, so on a 30 damage fireball you only save 15 damage with evasion. Compare that with having 3rd level spells at the same time as a sorcerer instead of getting each new level of spells AFTER a sorcerer. Forget evasion and just take a Weasel Familiar so that you are less likely to fail critical reflex saves. If you really want to be more durable, take Improved Toughness as soon as you get the +2 fortitude save prereq. And please don't repeat my mistake of thinking Evasion is better than spellcasting. Here's another big thing: Which might have already been said. If you only take 2 levels in Unseen Seer, you get the 2d6 Sneak Attack to get into Arcane Trickster, extra skill points, a divination spell from ANY CLASS' SPELL LIST (Hello GraveStrike or better!) AND you can go directly into Arcane Trickster while losing only ONE spellcasting level. It is definitely worth the effort of juggling skill points and possibly retraining two or three times to gain the increase in spellcasting. I know, I'm two levels behind and it's killed my rogue2/wizard3 twice. Hariman PS: I recommend either conjurer, evoker or necromancer. All have great synergies for a Trickster. Necromancy rules on debuffs and has great spells like enervation and ray of enfeeblement. Evocation has a wealth of blasting spells, both area and ray/single target. And conjuration is a must for the orbs and spells like glitterdust, among other spells. TAKE GREASE AND GLITTERDUST! Grease is remarkably useful for ANY caster, but at higher levels, enemies will make their save and stand flat footed for you to blast. OR they'll fall and become easy prey for the melee characters. Glitterdust, while limited without Heighten spell, is a must for fighting invisible creatures AND it can blind opponents, which helps the whole party. Just make sure you mix up you spell selection. Take only a few reliable attack spells, orb of sound should be enough for first level, although I would recommend taking another lesser orb for those times when you must blast into silence. Buy a few scrolls and scribe them into your spellbook or copy from other spellbooks. Add in a decent number of the "must have" spells, like fly, haste, Enlarge Person, etc. You WILL need the capability to buff party members instead of relying on your own power. You won't be doing massive amounts of damage with your spells until level 8, when you can get a 4th level orb spell. Oh yeah, buy at least a few Pearls of Power if you can, and a Boccob's Blessed Book at the first chance. It is worth much more than it's weight in gold. And consider a crafting feat like Craft Wondrous Item. You can craft a number of items which will save you a great deal in the long run. Also, squeeze in Empower Spell and Metamagic Spell Focus (Combine this with being a specialist wizard) so that you can empower your attack spells for only +1 spell levels!