reach weapons and enlarge spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

reach weapons and enlarge spell [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
boogahwoof
03-31-07, 10:54 PM Ok, heres my misunderstanding. My wife plays a trip attacker, she has a +1 large spiked chain. All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach, and when you get enlarged does that make the reach longer as well, due to both the character getting bigger and the weapon. So if she was not enlarged, just a medium person with a large spiked chain what would her reach be? Also, what would it be when she is enlarged? Thanks for all your knowledge yall always gladly share.
Mithreinmaethor
04-01-07, 12:00 AM Ok, heres my misunderstanding. My wife plays a trip attacker, she has a +1 large spiked chain. All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach, and when you get enlarged does that make the reach longer as well, due to both the character getting bigger and the weapon. So if she was not enlarged, just a medium person with a large spiked chain what would her reach be? Also, what would it be when she is enlarged? Thanks for all your knowledge yall always gladly share.

NO. Just because the weapon is large does not give it extra reach. The reach is based upon the character in this instance not the weapon. So A Medium character wielding a Large Spiked Chain has 10' reach. If they are enlarged they have a 15' reach.

Using a larger reach weapon is of no use other than to increase the damage the weapon deals. And is kind of a waste of a Feat (Monkey Grip for a -2 to AB) for an already feat intensive build. And she can not use a larger spiked chain without that feat.
King Kashue
04-01-07, 12:07 AM Also important to note is that if a weapon is smaller than appropriate size, you do not have reach. A medium character with a small spiked chain (the idea being to wield it one handed) does not have reach.
Howie23
04-01-07, 12:34 AM NO. Just because the weapon is large does not give it extra reach. The reach is based upon the character in this instance not the weapon. So A Medium character wielding a Large Spiked Chain has 10' reach. If they are enlarged they have a 15' reach.

Medium enlarged with a reach weapon is 20', not 15'. A reach weapon doubles the natural reach of the character weilding it. An enlarged Medium has a 10' natural reach, so the reach weapon gives 20'. (FAQ p. 44)

David
Timlagor
04-03-07, 03:39 PM Also the spell is "Enlarge Person".
"Enlarge Spell" is a Metamagic Feat.
[/pedagogue]
clannagh
04-03-07, 07:12 PM Medium enlarged with a reach weapon is 20', not 15'. A reach weapon doubles the natural reach of the character weilding it. An enlarged Medium has a 10' natural reach, so the reach weapon gives 20'. (FAQ p. 44)

David

indeed correct .....

with the proviso that the reach weapon is an appropriate size for the wielder .. but "enlarge person" enlarges the weapon as well so it is automatically an appropriate size and doubles natural reach

In the case of a spiked chain and a TALL large creature the reach is from adjacent out to 20'. In the case of a nornal reach weapon like a longspear the reach is from 10" to 20' (the first 10' doesnt threaten).

A LONG large creature would gain no reach however as far as I am aware any medium creature that can wield a weapon enlarges as TALL
MysticRhythms
04-10-07, 11:52 AM Does an Enlarged Longspear user with Spiked Gauntlets still threaten to all squares?
Timlagor
04-10-07, 12:58 PM Yes.
awroe
04-10-07, 01:28 PM Does an Enlarged Longspear user with Spiked Gauntlets still threaten to all squares?

It depends whether your GM lets you threaten with the gauntlets while holding both hands on the long spear - but that doesn't change with Enlarge.
LeeShort
04-10-07, 03:17 PM It depends whether your GM lets you threaten with the gauntlets while holding both hands on the long spear - but that doesn't change with Enlarge.

In any event, Enlarge + Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes clearly allows you to threaten all squares within 20'. Cheesy, but I think the RAW clearly state this.
bitznarf
04-10-07, 03:39 PM In any event, Enlarge + Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes clearly allows you to threaten all squares within 20'. Cheesy, but I think the RAW clearly state this.
Your definition of cheese and mine must differ greatly. I don't personally think anything about that is cheesey, just good tactics.
trollbill
04-11-07, 10:20 AM Don't forget that Reach attacks are subject to the Cover rules for ranged attacks, thus a 20-foot reach can be severerly nerfed for AoO purposes in a melee with a large number of participants. An Enlarged Spiked Chain wielder is considerably more cheesy when DMs are unaware of this rule.
Bold
04-11-07, 11:05 AM All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach

This is covered in the Official D&D FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), page 44:

How do reach weapons work if they are of a different
size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding
a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the Monkey
Grip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for
each situation?

A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but
only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the
wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach.
An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach
weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack
foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large
creature wielding a non-reach weapon).

A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach
weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further),
and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away
(as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A
human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach
from the weapon.

And has already been pointed out, spells like Enlarge Person will increase the wielder's reach (along with the "notch" for reach weapons like a longspear) accordingly.
LachlarlanIII
04-11-07, 11:41 AM What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach.
bitznarf
04-11-07, 11:57 AM What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach.
This is D&D, reality need not apply.
King Kashue
04-11-07, 06:48 PM What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach.

It's easy to understand the game balance issue though, a one handed reach weapon would be ubernice (and quite powerful).
clannagh
04-11-07, 07:02 PM It's easy to understand the game balance issue though, a one handed reach weapon would be ubernice (and quite powerful).

Indeed .. aside from the obvious spike chain 10' reach tripper and tower shield combo .. the idea of facing an enlarged hasted ITWF EWM flurry chain fighter in an encounter is a bit of a worry. Of course you can still do all that with a small chain under current rules but at least TWF with a small chain means you lose the reach :)
LeeShort
04-12-07, 10:18 AM Your definition of cheese and mine must differ greatly. I don't personally think anything about that is cheesey, just good tactics.

Well, using armor spikes to attack an object 10' away is just unbelievable to me. Obviously, YMMV, and this is hardly the worst rules artifact in this regard.
bitznarf
04-12-07, 10:20 AM In a fantasy setting where people hurl fireballs, stop time, and can challenge the power of the gods, being able to attack something 10' away with armor spikes makes you pause?
trollbill
04-12-07, 12:04 PM Well, using armor spikes to attack an object 10' away is just unbelievable to me. Obviously, YMMV, and this is hardly the worst rules artifact in this regard.

What, you don't think the armor spikes extend to the part of the armor covering the arms, or legs?
bitznarf
04-12-07, 12:56 PM Heh, not if your armor is just a breastplate. Makes me wonder how you add armor spikes to something like gnome twistcloth.
NeSoDak
04-12-07, 01:02 PM Maybe they are more like thorns embedded into the cloth?

JAT
trollbill
04-12-07, 01:17 PM Heh, not if your armor is just a breastplate. Makes me wonder how you add armor spikes to something like gnome twistcloth.

Take a look at the picture of Breastplate armor in the PHB again. It's not just a breastplate.
bitznarf
04-12-07, 01:26 PM Well, I don't have my PHB in front of me, I was going solely on the name 'breastplate.' Regardless I don't actually have a problem with armor spikes hitting 'stuff' 10ft away from you. I can handle a bit of weirdness, like the fact that a small creature wielding a small spiked chain has 10' reach but a medium creature wielding the same chain only has 5'.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
boogahwoof 03-31-07, 10:54 PM	Ok, heres my misunderstanding. My wife plays a trip attacker, she has a +1 large spiked chain. All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach, and when you get enlarged does that make the reach longer as well, due to both the character getting bigger and the weapon. So if she was not enlarged, just a medium person with a large spiked chain what would her reach be? Also, what would it be when she is enlarged? Thanks for all your knowledge yall always gladly share.
Mithreinmaethor 04-01-07, 12:00 AM	Ok, heres my misunderstanding. My wife plays a trip attacker, she has a +1 large spiked chain. All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach, and when you get enlarged does that make the reach longer as well, due to both the character getting bigger and the weapon. So if she was not enlarged, just a medium person with a large spiked chain what would her reach be? Also, what would it be when she is enlarged? Thanks for all your knowledge yall always gladly share. NO. Just because the weapon is large does not give it extra reach. The reach is based upon the character in this instance not the weapon. So A Medium character wielding a Large Spiked Chain has 10' reach. If they are enlarged they have a 15' reach. Using a larger reach weapon is of no use other than to increase the damage the weapon deals. And is kind of a waste of a Feat (Monkey Grip for a -2 to AB) for an already feat intensive build. And she can not use a larger spiked chain without that feat.
King Kashue 04-01-07, 12:07 AM	Also important to note is that if a weapon is smaller than appropriate size, you do not have reach. A medium character with a small spiked chain (the idea being to wield it one handed) does not have reach.
Howie23 04-01-07, 12:34 AM	NO. Just because the weapon is large does not give it extra reach. The reach is based upon the character in this instance not the weapon. So A Medium character wielding a Large Spiked Chain has 10' reach. If they are enlarged they have a 15' reach. Medium enlarged with a reach weapon is 20', not 15'. A reach weapon doubles the natural reach of the character weilding it. An enlarged Medium has a 10' natural reach, so the reach weapon gives 20'. (FAQ p. 44) David
Timlagor 04-03-07, 03:39 PM	Also the spell is "Enlarge Person". "Enlarge Spell" is a Metamagic Feat. [/pedagogue]
clannagh 04-03-07, 07:12 PM	Medium enlarged with a reach weapon is 20', not 15'. A reach weapon doubles the natural reach of the character weilding it. An enlarged Medium has a 10' natural reach, so the reach weapon gives 20'. (FAQ p. 44) David indeed correct ..... with the proviso that the reach weapon is an appropriate size for the wielder .. but "enlarge person" enlarges the weapon as well so it is automatically an appropriate size and doubles natural reach In the case of a spiked chain and a TALL large creature the reach is from adjacent out to 20'. In the case of a nornal reach weapon like a longspear the reach is from 10" to 20' (the first 10' doesnt threaten). A LONG large creature would gain no reach however as far as I am aware any medium creature that can wield a weapon enlarges as TALL
MysticRhythms 04-10-07, 11:52 AM	Does an Enlarged Longspear user with Spiked Gauntlets still threaten to all squares?
Timlagor 04-10-07, 12:58 PM	Yes.
awroe 04-10-07, 01:28 PM	Does an Enlarged Longspear user with Spiked Gauntlets still threaten to all squares? It depends whether your GM lets you threaten with the gauntlets while holding both hands on the long spear - but that doesn't change with Enlarge.
LeeShort 04-10-07, 03:17 PM	It depends whether your GM lets you threaten with the gauntlets while holding both hands on the long spear - but that doesn't change with Enlarge. In any event, Enlarge + Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes clearly allows you to threaten all squares within 20'. Cheesy, but I think the RAW clearly state this.
bitznarf 04-10-07, 03:39 PM	In any event, Enlarge + Reach Weapon + Armor Spikes clearly allows you to threaten all squares within 20'. Cheesy, but I think the RAW clearly state this. Your definition of cheese and mine must differ greatly. I don't personally think anything about that is cheesey, just good tactics.
trollbill 04-11-07, 10:20 AM	Don't forget that Reach attacks are subject to the Cover rules for ranged attacks, thus a 20-foot reach can be severerly nerfed for AoO purposes in a melee with a large number of participants. An Enlarged Spiked Chain wielder is considerably more cheesy when DMs are unaware of this rule.
Bold 04-11-07, 11:05 AM	All I guess I am asking for here is a clarifaction on the rules of when a weapon is a larger size, does it have longer reach This is covered in the Official D&D FAQ (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20030221a), page 44: How do reach weapons work if they are of a different size than the creature wielding them? Say, an ogre wielding a Small or Medium glaive, or a human with the Monkey Grip feat wielding a Large ranseur? What is the reach for each situation? A reach weapon doubles its wielder’s natural reach, but only if the weapon is at least of an appropriate size for the wielder. Wielding a “too-small” reach weapon grants no reach. An ogre (Large) wielding a Medium or smaller reach weapon gains no reach from the weapon, and could thus attack foes either 5 feet or 10 feet distant (as normal for a Large creature wielding a non-reach weapon). A human (Medium) wielding a Large or larger reach weapon could attack a creature 10 feet away (but no further), and could not use the weapon to attack a creature 5 feet away (as normal for a Medium creature wielding a reach weapon). A human wielding a Small reach weapon would gain no reach from the weapon. And has already been pointed out, spells like Enlarge Person will increase the wielder's reach (along with the "notch" for reach weapons like a longspear) accordingly.
LachlarlanIII 04-11-07, 11:41 AM	What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach.
bitznarf 04-11-07, 11:57 AM	What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach. This is D&D, reality need not apply.
King Kashue 04-11-07, 06:48 PM	What I think is funny about that is a Human weilding a Small Spiked Chain only has 5' reach, whereas a Halfling weilding the same weapon has 10' reach. It's easy to understand the game balance issue though, a one handed reach weapon would be ubernice (and quite powerful).
clannagh 04-11-07, 07:02 PM	It's easy to understand the game balance issue though, a one handed reach weapon would be ubernice (and quite powerful). Indeed .. aside from the obvious spike chain 10' reach tripper and tower shield combo .. the idea of facing an enlarged hasted ITWF EWM flurry chain fighter in an encounter is a bit of a worry. Of course you can still do all that with a small chain under current rules but at least TWF with a small chain means you lose the reach :)
LeeShort 04-12-07, 10:18 AM	Your definition of cheese and mine must differ greatly. I don't personally think anything about that is cheesey, just good tactics. Well, using armor spikes to attack an object 10' away is just unbelievable to me. Obviously, YMMV, and this is hardly the worst rules artifact in this regard.
bitznarf 04-12-07, 10:20 AM	In a fantasy setting where people hurl fireballs, stop time, and can challenge the power of the gods, being able to attack something 10' away with armor spikes makes you pause?
trollbill 04-12-07, 12:04 PM	Well, using armor spikes to attack an object 10' away is just unbelievable to me. Obviously, YMMV, and this is hardly the worst rules artifact in this regard. What, you don't think the armor spikes extend to the part of the armor covering the arms, or legs?
bitznarf 04-12-07, 12:56 PM	Heh, not if your armor is just a breastplate. Makes me wonder how you add armor spikes to something like gnome twistcloth.
NeSoDak 04-12-07, 01:02 PM	Maybe they are more like thorns embedded into the cloth? JAT
trollbill 04-12-07, 01:17 PM	Heh, not if your armor is just a breastplate. Makes me wonder how you add armor spikes to something like gnome twistcloth. Take a look at the picture of Breastplate armor in the PHB again. It's not just a breastplate.
bitznarf 04-12-07, 01:26 PM	Well, I don't have my PHB in front of me, I was going solely on the name 'breastplate.' Regardless I don't actually have a problem with armor spikes hitting 'stuff' 10ft away from you. I can handle a bit of weirdness, like the fact that a small creature wielding a small spiked chain has 10' reach but a medium creature wielding the same chain only has 5'.