Retrain Marshal Diplomacy Focus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Retrain Marshal Diplomacy Focus? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Painlord
09-11-07, 11:04 PM Hey All--

There are two parts to this question...representing both my evil side (munchkin/powergamer) and my rational side (the side I usually keep quiet with beer).

I have a Dwarf Marshal 2, going into some Fighter levels for some easy feats to take the character in a different direction and I think I'd like to retrain the Skill Focus (Diplomacy) feat.

I'm not sure that I can...and, if I can, I'm not sure it's within the spirit of the game.

Any thoughts?

-Pain
LeeShort
09-11-07, 11:09 PM I'm quite certain you can't. PHB II, pg 193: "You can exchange one of the feats you previously selected for another feat."

You didn't select SF: Diplomacy. You were simply given it.
jstorrie
09-11-07, 11:39 PM No, you can't retrain that away.
Painlord
09-11-07, 11:50 PM Ah. So, this gift horse, I shouldn't look it in the mouth?

Fine.

Thanks for the clarification.

-Pain
KarmaInferno
09-12-07, 12:03 AM Generally you can retrain a class feat if it gave you a choice from a selection. "Pick from choice A or B".

If it just gives you a feat with no alternative choice, you're stuck with it.

I'd love to have been able to retrain out of that Diplo skill focus otherwise. My marshal can get a 50 result just by taking ten. That extra +3 isn't as useful as another feat slot would be.

-karma
jstorrie
09-12-07, 01:46 AM The trick with Marshal SF: Diplomacy is to multiclass in to Marshal, not out. You take SF: Diplo as a 1 or 3 feat, and then 'swap' it for something with greater prerequisites at a higher level when you take Marshal 1. For example, my Paladin took SF: Diplo at 1, and multiclassed into Marshal at 5th level–this let him get both Sacred Healing and Divine Might without screwing up his feat progression.
Tonus
09-12-07, 12:29 PM The trick with Marshal SF: Diplomacy is to multiclass in to Marshal, not out. You take SF: Diplo as a 1 or 3 feat, and then 'swap' it for something with greater prerequisites at a higher level when you take Marshal 1. For example, my Paladin took SF: Diplo at 1, and multiclassed into Marshal at 5th level–this let him get both Sacred Healing and Divine Might without screwing up his feat progression.

Strictly speaking, the swap trick doesn't work for retraining - you have to select an option that would have been valid at the original level you got the feat. However, in this specific example you aren't actually using the retraining option - the Marshal description specifically says that if you already have the Skill focus (Diplomacy) feat you can select another feat.
jstorrie
09-12-07, 01:16 PM You could probably make a case for being able to do the swap via retraining as long as your first level wasn't Marshal. But if it is, you already have SF: Diplo, so you can't take SF: Diplo (and it wouldn't make any sense, anyway, to give up a first-level feat to get a first-level feat. Why bother?)

If you Marshal'd in at say 4 or 5, though, you wouldn't have had SF: Diplo at 1, so I'd argue you could retrain and the change would 'propagate up' your progression, altering your choice of feat at Marshal 1. ETV, ie, don't do this.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Painlord 09-11-07, 11:04 PM	Hey All-- There are two parts to this question...representing both my evil side (munchkin/powergamer) and my rational side (the side I usually keep quiet with beer). I have a Dwarf Marshal 2, going into some Fighter levels for some easy feats to take the character in a different direction and I think I'd like to retrain the Skill Focus (Diplomacy) feat. I'm not sure that I can...and, if I can, I'm not sure it's within the spirit of the game. Any thoughts? -Pain
LeeShort 09-11-07, 11:09 PM	I'm quite certain you can't. PHB II, pg 193: "You can exchange one of the feats you previously selected for another feat." You didn't select SF: Diplomacy. You were simply given it.
jstorrie 09-11-07, 11:39 PM	No, you can't retrain that away.
Painlord 09-11-07, 11:50 PM	Ah. So, this gift horse, I shouldn't look it in the mouth? Fine. Thanks for the clarification. -Pain
KarmaInferno 09-12-07, 12:03 AM	Generally you can retrain a class feat if it gave you a choice from a selection. "Pick from choice A or B". If it just gives you a feat with no alternative choice, you're stuck with it. I'd love to have been able to retrain out of that Diplo skill focus otherwise. My marshal can get a 50 result just by taking ten. That extra +3 isn't as useful as another feat slot would be. -karma
jstorrie 09-12-07, 01:46 AM	The trick with Marshal SF: Diplomacy is to multiclass in to Marshal, not out. You take SF: Diplo as a 1 or 3 feat, and then 'swap' it for something with greater prerequisites at a higher level when you take Marshal 1. For example, my Paladin took SF: Diplo at 1, and multiclassed into Marshal at 5th level–this let him get both Sacred Healing and Divine Might without screwing up his feat progression.
Tonus 09-12-07, 12:29 PM	The trick with Marshal SF: Diplomacy is to multiclass in to Marshal, not out. You take SF: Diplo as a 1 or 3 feat, and then 'swap' it for something with greater prerequisites at a higher level when you take Marshal 1. For example, my Paladin took SF: Diplo at 1, and multiclassed into Marshal at 5th level–this let him get both Sacred Healing and Divine Might without screwing up his feat progression. Strictly speaking, the swap trick doesn't work for retraining - you have to select an option that would have been valid at the original level you got the feat. However, in this specific example you aren't actually using the retraining option - the Marshal description specifically says that if you already have the Skill focus (Diplomacy) feat you can select another feat.
jstorrie 09-12-07, 01:16 PM	You could probably make a case for being able to do the swap via retraining as long as your first level wasn't Marshal. But if it is, you already have SF: Diplo, so you can't take SF: Diplo (and it wouldn't make any sense, anyway, to give up a first-level feat to get a first-level feat. Why bother?) If you Marshal'd in at say 4 or 5, though, you wouldn't have had SF: Diplo at 1, so I'd argue you could retrain and the change would 'propagate up' your progression, altering your choice of feat at Marshal 1. ETV, ie, don't do this.