Post/Author/DateTime	Post
awroe 07-09-07, 05:20 PM	I have a Rog 2 / Fig 1 / Rgr 1 / Swb 1 that's nearing 6th level, and I'm unsure where I should take him. He was my first character, so the multiple different levels at the start are more due to misunderstanding the importance of levels than any strategic plan. The character is lawful, a member of the Night Watch, and has lately been disarming opponents with his chain and getting them to surrender. I have noticed that my damage isn't very significant at the moment, and I would like to stay effective as I go up the APLs. Stats: Str 14, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 8 Feats: Combat Reflexes, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, EWP (Chain, Spiked) Class access: Dread Pirate, Drunken Master, Mage of the Arcane Order, Nightsong Enforcer, Nightsong Infiltrator, Spymaster, Tactical Soldier Rogue / Fighter PHBII alternative class features. Currently I'm planning on taking two more levels of Rogue to get the PHB II alternative feature (give up sneak damage on a hit to give -5 to target's AC for one round), and two levels of Justicar (to make all weapons non-lethal and the additional 1d6 + 1 str damage), but I'm not sure where to go from there. I'm not particularly attached to the chain / disarm tactics, so changing these feats is fine. One plan would be to continue with Rogue, aiming for Rogue 10 (Crippling Strike), and change focus to TWF. That would eventually get me 5 strikes with 6d6 sneak type damage and 3 strength damage, but only at 15th. Anyone want to take a stab at improving it?
Demoyn 07-09-07, 05:37 PM	Start off with another level of rogue and take power attack. Realize that when you trip someone in melee, you get a +4 to hit them (or a -4 to their AC... semantics, whatever). That's effectively 8 free damage if you power attack for -4 to attack (you only have to hit touch AC to trip, so you can afford to lose 4 from your attack anyway). After that, I'd suggest going tactical soldier. If you can get the party's wizard, sorcerer, or cleric with strength domain to cast enlarge person on you, you'll have a 20' reach with 2 AoO's (try to get some gloves of dex) that flanks from 3 different squares. Effectively you'll be able to add 12 damage +2d6 PER HIT for free to your attacks because of flank and trip bonuses (once you hit +6 BAB). Also, you control the battlefield, since most rooms aren't much larger than 20' x 20'.
awroe 07-09-07, 06:12 PM	Thanks for the suggestions. The main issue with tripping is that this isn't a Strength-based build, so I'm likely to fail on the trip attempt a lot. Without being able to take Barbarian levels, I'd need a Str-aura Marshal to get the checks high enough. Rather than spending a feat on cleave and a level on Tactical Fighter, I've considered a level of Fighter and the Vexing / Adaptable Flanker feats, as it gives me a little more leeway.
jimmy_dowdall 07-09-07, 08:23 PM	u could try going for another level of ranger nxt, getting twf and retraining ur ewp chain to lynx paw take the deadly defense feat and a level of extoic weapon master and flurry it, then stick with somthing that will stack ur sneak attack damage
Demoyn 07-09-07, 08:34 PM	Right now as it stands, you have a +2 from strength, +4 from improved trip. A typical monster will have only a +3 or +4 (depending on size category and amount of legs). Now get your party's buff caster to cast enlarge person and you're sitting on another +4. All this equates about a 75% chance to trip a standard APL 4-6 monster. Considering that, on a successful trip attempt, you'll get not only a +4 to hit (or +8 free damage), but you'll also get a guaranteed AoO (provided that you don't move away from your target) for another chance to hit, you're coming out on top of the damage total even calculating in your failed trip attempts. Either way, just realize that the difference between a 14 strength trip fighter and an 18 strength trip fighter is a 10% chance of success. One out of every 10 chances, your 14 strength will actually matter. Even so, you're well ahead of the damage curve for an average character of your level, and that's not even taking into consideration that your character's PRIMARY job as a tactical chain fighter is to CONTROL the battlefield, not neccessarily to destroy it.
Sieylianna 07-09-07, 08:35 PM	Swashbuckler 3 for INT to damage would help. Combine that with rogue levels and daring outlaw would also be beneficial. Unfortunately, you have a bunch of classes. Rogue X/ Fighter 2 / Ranger 2 / Swashbuckler 3 would be workable. You could pick up TWF style from ranger then use the fighter bonus feat for ITWF (I think you'd need gloves of Dex to qualify). Ed
clannagh 07-09-07, 09:11 PM	Swashbuckler 3 for INT to damage would help. Combine that with rogue levels and daring outlaw would also be beneficial. Unfortunately, you have a bunch of classes. Rogue X/ Fighter 2 / Ranger 2 / Swashbuckler 3 would be workable. You could pick up TWF style from ranger then use the fighter bonus feat for ITWF (I think you'd need gloves of Dex to qualify). Ed Swash 3 could work you could also retrain the chain feat into "hold the line" so you use two weapons but still retains some benefit from the combat reflexes
awroe 07-10-07, 06:48 PM	Thanks for all the advice. The Lynx Paw is interesting - like the chain, except a double weapon without reach. I'm not convinced it's better than Chain + Armour Spikes for TWF. Current Plan: Rog 4, Swb 3, Fig 2, Rng 2, EWM 2, Justicar 2 Take the full TWF tree, along with Staggering Strike and Daring Outlaw. This gives up to 7 attacks (at -4 to hit), each with weapon damage +5d6+2 non-lethal + 1 strength damage against sneak-attackable creatures, plus 7 fortitude saves. The first attack can be an off-hand attack for the -5 to AC, making the lower iteratives more likely to hit. Fixed feats: Track, Improved Grapple, Weapon Finesse, TWF (free feats) EWP (Spiked Chain), Weapon Focus (Spiked Chain), Skill Focus (Gather Information) (Prestige Class requirements) ITWF, GTWF (Extra attacks) Staggering Strike (Damage control) Daring Outlaw (+2d6 damage) I still have to decide what to do with the remaining 2 general feats. Choices under consideration: Combat Expertise - Extra AC is good Improved Disarm - Some battlefield control, better success rate than Trip, many monsters do not use weapons, works nicely with Staggering Strike Improved Trip - Battlefield control, potentially limited success Deadly Defense - Power Attack that works on light weapons, really needs CE Power Attack - Doesn't work on armour spikes, better range than Deadly Defense Quick Draw - Sneak attack with consumables/bow on first round, draw DR weapons when appropriate. Range doesn't work with Justicar ability Improved Initiative - Go first, but high dex means good initiative anyway Combat Reflexes - Extra attacks, good for disarm / trip, but unlikely to get sneak unless invisible/blinking I'm inclined to ignore the Improved X feats, as I can still do the moves without the +4 and I don't think they will come up as frequently as other feats. With all the extra attacks, and the ability to turn these on/off, I'm not sure Power Attack would be used - Deadly Defense might be more useful if I'm trying to cork for a while. Any opinions on which ones are most useful?
Sieylianna 07-10-07, 09:11 PM	There are also two weapon pounce and two weapon rend. The rend is basically free damage when you get your number of attacks up to 2 or 3. Ed