Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LGMoses 12-06-06, 01:26 AM	How dumb is 6 intelligence. I've been looking at this and agonizing over this for some time. How dumb is it? I looked it up and a wyvern has 6 intelligence. What about 6 charisma? What I'm really asking is for someone to explain this out and just to hear some roleplaying tips for this for my character and other people in my gropus characters so we don't just have a ton of, "ME SMASH" barbarians running around. Just any good roleplaying tips for that intelligence. I got this barbarian, he's got 6 int, 6 cha but 12 wis. I'm just looking for a realistic way to play this character that will be original. I like the character. Have a hell of a backstory for him and everything. I just want someone to reassure me what those 2 six's on my paper mean. Anything at all
Britt 12-06-06, 01:31 AM	The Charisma mainly has to do with interaction and force of personality. A 6 CHA would basically mean that they do not know how to deal with people, have a hard time convincing others of pretty much anything, and would probably be butt ugly. The Intelligence and Wisdom usually interact, IMO. With a 6 INT and 12 WIS, I would think that you understand concepts better and have more common sense than the average human. However, you would have horrible memory, reasoning abilities, vocabulary, and general knowledge. That's my take on it.
copper_wyrmling 12-06-06, 02:41 AM	The Charisma mainly has to do with interaction and force of personality. A 6 CHA would basically mean that they do not know how to deal with people, have a hard time convincing others of pretty much anything, and would probably be butt ugly. I like the way I heard someone describe it a while back: low Cha means that your character doesn't know how to interact with people in a way that gets them what they want. That can mean they're a sweet and kind person, they're just very shy or very impressionable, and find it impossible to argue with people or ask for anything. It can mean they're fairly strong-willed (probably in combination with high Wisdom), but the way they try to get people to do what they want is to bludgeon them into it, and then they're surprised when people react badly to that. It can mean that they have good intentions and actually understand how people work (probably in combination with high Wis or Int), but when they try to talk to people, they always manage to put their foot in their mouth (I remember someone describing their low-Cha PC as coming across as a very apologetic megalomaniac). Either way, people tend to ignore or avoid them. They're not scary, though: being scary is a function of high Charisma. Also, keep in mind that you want this PC to be able to function in a party. That means you really shouldn't make them too obnoxious. I saw a very low-Int low-Cha dwarf barbarian roleplayed very well earlier this year (she started with Cha at either 6 or 8, then took a permanent -1 Cha penalty, then got a curse that gave her -3 on all charisma skill checks...) She was a very sweet and generous soul (she was the only PC who thought of repairing the playground for the kiddies - of course, she then wanted to build them a solid stone seesaw, and had to be dissuaded from this plan by the smarter PCs), but she had this amazing ability to (a) go off on the *weirdest* tangents, and (b) stumble onto exactly the most inadvertently offensive thing to say in any given situation. She never understood why she got chased out of that store by the human shopkeeper... Of course, a lot of players won't be able to pull this off, but it can be truly hilarious when it works. It does help if you've got a smarter and more charismatic PC to act as a foil (and keeper) for your character as they blunder through the world (the dwarf in my example usually travels with her brother). The Intelligence and Wisdom usually interact, IMO. With a 6 INT and 12 WIS, I would think that you understand concepts better and have more common sense than the average human. However, you would have horrible memory, reasoning abilities, vocabulary, and general knowledge. Planning ahead and understanding the consequences of your actions seem like they could be associated with either Int or Wisdom. Note also that Wisdom is linked to awareness of your environment and other people. If I was playing an Int 6 / Wis 12 / Cha 6 type, I would probably run them as a quiet type - attuned to their environment, and very centered, but they find the complexities of the human world hard to deal with. Maybe they've had a head injury in the past: for some reason, they have trouble remembering things, even on short timescales, and they just don't have much to talk about, so they find it very hard to keep up conversations. They would make their decisions based mostly on gut instinct, not long analysis. But that's just how I'd do it, since I'm not confident in my ability to play someone who's trying really hard to be personable and failing horribly. I'm considering playing a Wis 8 / Int 16 / Cha 6 dwarf. She would be a sweet girl, just very lacking in confidence - because while she knows the theory really well, and thinks she understands how things work, everything always seems to go wrong when she tries to put it into practice (her backstory would involve being an apprentice smith + engineer). Hope some of that helps...
Lupo 12-06-06, 03:31 AM	How dumb is 6 intelligence. I've been looking at this and agonizing over this for some time. How dumb is it? I looked it up and a wyvern has 6 intelligence. What about 6 charisma? What I'm really asking is for someone to explain this out and just to hear some roleplaying tips for this for my character and other people in my gropus characters so we don't just have a ton of, "ME SMASH" barbarians running around. Just any good roleplaying tips for that intelligence. I got this barbarian, he's got 6 int, 6 cha but 12 wis. I'm just looking for a realistic way to play this character that will be original. I like the character. Have a hell of a backstory for him and everything. I just want someone to reassure me what those 2 six's on my paper mean. Anything at all the "me smashhhhhhhhhhh" is usually reserved for int 6, wis 8, cha 6 types. int 6: a character has a hard time figuring out plans AND following them, is easy distracted and tends to try "simple" solutions, that may include "me smash" but also things like prefer frontal assaults instead of sophisticated plans (this often collides with a smart player, who out of combat comes up with elaborate fancy intrigueing ideas). wis 6: bad at judging situations and making ad hoc decisions. a character is likely to misinterpret interaction with NPCs, ignore or don't get a discrete question for a bribe to pass a guardpost or a tip to get a valuable information. will often try the wrong thing to smoothen interaction. like trying to bully a stern and lawful guard. cha 6: the character does not impress NPCs very much. will have a hard time to get NPCs to cooperate or persuade to be helpful. might be attacked by foes "just for showing the rest how powerfull we are, and he is definitely the least important/impressive". the problem with the stats in D&D is that they can't be tied to a real world mechanic easily. the three "personal" stats int, wis and cha are covering the fields of raw intelligence (whatever that might be), life experience, emotional perception, empathy, wits, looks, behaviour, charme, personal aurae and so forth, without being an exact and exclusive model for a single one of these. in addition real world has no numerical model for being twice as smart or being half as good looking. ciao martin m.
ArchMageQuandolf 12-06-06, 04:57 AM	I figured its about 8X (ability scores points) for an average IQ in real life. A person with an 18 INT would be considered a genius. The mensa organization categorizes geniuses at 140 I.Q. A person with an 18 INT would have an IQ of 144. So a person with a 6 INT would have a 48 I.Q. or about a 6 year old average intelligence. Thats my opinion. :)
UMiskatonic 12-06-06, 09:54 AM	Here's what NOT to do. Don't play your guy as so dumb that you actually make it harder for everyone else. If you get thrown out of the shop, great. If you get them thrown out of the shop, then they won't like you. Also, Keep in mind that some of these decisions are matters of life and death for your character. I've played with a person that roleplayed her character as too dumb to switch weapons to overcome damage reduction. That hurts the entire table, and makes goals harder. Don't expect a lot of help (healing, buffs, for example) if you act against the best interests of the group.
trollbill 12-06-06, 10:15 AM	Am am currently running a Neutral Good Barbarian 1/Cleric of Kord 2 Half-Orc with a 6 Int, 14 Wis and 6 Cha. He is soft spoken and kind hearted. He usually goes along with what everyone else wants and doesn't push issues. He can be blunt some times (In murder mysteries his common form of interigation is simply to ask people if they committed the murder, often during the intrduction, and if they say, "no" he leaves it at that.) He also likes cuddly animals. His stupidity makes him obnoxious as he usually doesn't get subtelty or expressions (What do you mean someone put murder dagger here as plant. How can murder dagger be plant when it made of metal?) I try to hold off on having 'bright' ideas unless the party desperately needs one. In which case I pawn it off as being an intuitive idea. I don't think I could play a character with both low Int and low Wis. In combat I don't play him quite so stupid. I look at it this way. Animals with only a 2 Int have some very effective combat/hunting tactics that play to their strengths. This is due both to genetics and parental training. Certainly my 6 Int character would be effective in a similar way.
Britt 12-06-06, 10:15 AM	Oh, one complaint I always had with my 6 INT 8 WIS 6 CHA half-orc was when people tried to tell me that my 16th level fighter didn't have the mental skills to implement combat strategy or, as mentioned above, switch weapons. I'm a fighter! That's what I do! Even if you are stupid, if you do something long enough and train all the time, you're going to know how to do something the right way.
kenobi65 12-06-06, 10:15 AM	Also, Keep in mind that some of these decisions are matters of life and death for your character. I've played with a person that roleplayed her character as too dumb to switch weapons to overcome damage reduction. That hurts the entire table, and makes goals harder. That's where the 12 Wisdom could save the PC in question. Intelligence is "book smarts", learning, etc. Obviously, with a 6 Int, he lacks much of that. Wisdom is common sense, insight, etc. He's above-average in that regard. I'd play this kind of character as someone who can't think through a problem to save his life, but his gut reaction to things is usually pretty good.
RedKnightofKet 12-06-06, 04:27 PM	I play an INT 6 Ranger/Barb - going for Wildrunner very soon, and I haven't received any complaints on him. Mind you, his 20 Str makes him popular :D He was my Shedding Scales guy, so he got VERY close to dropping to 5 INT - would have possibly made him the dumbest character in LG. I play his INT like most of you have describe, as weak in knowledge. He often mispronounces names, like when he went to "Furry-undies". And his buddy, an INT 6 Centaur he's encountered a few times is a "horsey-man".
Lomiat 12-06-06, 06:03 PM	The low-INT, low-CHA PC I've seen roleplayed most effectively (now retired) was my friend's half-orc barbarian/fighter, Drivaal. It was really hard for Drivaal not to prove effective in combat, so there were some rounds where my friend would simply let Drivaal drift off and look for flowers and squirrels and shiny things while everyone else started into the melee. In one adventure, we were outside the chamber where we were momentarily scheduled to meet with the Lords and Ladies of the Shield Lands, and he asked the guard to the room where the bathroom was, staring intently at a corner on the other side of a bench... He liked the aforementioned flowers, squirrels, and shiny things, and would wipe snot from his nose with his forearm during important conversations. In short, he had absolutely no sense of propriety. And, of course, he was willing to take his lead from the grey elf wizard who, with a plethora of shiny things, lured him into acting as a bodyguard. It was always amusing, though, when the player got tired, stopped roleplaying the voice, and just focused on Power Attack and damage... The less mental energy the player had, the more the PC had.
clannagh 12-06-06, 06:54 PM	My favorite low int/charisma/wisdom character was my now deceased dwarf Dorin Dorin duel weilded dwarven waraxes without any of the feats cos he thought it looked cool. A typical incidents with Dorin was a mod where the party couldnt open a door and somehow quite accidently he found the key. Dorin proceeded to run up .. put the key in the lock .. and hit the key hard with his axe and say "open". My least favorite characters are the ones where the player is using the low int/wisdom as an excuse to be a deliberate pain in the butt and harass and annoy the other players.
_m_ 12-06-06, 10:21 PM	i loved dorin. i miss him lots. meanwhile... on the flipside, exactly HOW smart is smart. i know how i do it, but how would u other folk play an int 25 wisdom 12 charisma 14 character?
LGMoses 12-06-06, 10:29 PM	If I was playing an Int 6 / Wis 12 / Cha 6 type, I would probably run them as a quiet type - attuned to their environment, and very centered, but they find the complexities of the human world hard to deal with. Maybe they've had a head injury in the past: for some reason, they have trouble remembering things, even on short timescales, and they just don't have much to talk about, so they find it very hard to keep up conversations. They would make their decisions based mostly on gut instinct, not long analysis. But that's just how I'd do it, since I'm not confident in my ability to play someone who's trying really hard to be personable and failing horribly. Hope some of that helps... Thanks for the help. This is how i've been playing the character sort of. He's been very quiet and doesn't talk. (Obviously, realizing that the more he speaks the more he seems to get in trouble.) When he does talk its been in spatterings of orc common. I think the three common words said most so far have been: No, back, don't. Our party likes to run ahead and set off very obvious traps which he seems to notice. Kinda wouldn't think 6 intelligence would notice that but Wisdom is for noticing stuff and he's got TRAPSENSE so i figure he probably would point out the more obvious ones. He's a survival specialist barbarian who led our party through the Blood on Bright Sands mod. People who've played with us by now have noticed that he doesn't care for orcs OR other half-orcs too though. But usually he's just got this dopey grin on his face with 2 bottom canines sticking up....
Britt 12-06-06, 10:50 PM	i know how i do it, but how would u other folk play an int 25 wisdom 12 charisma 14 character? You play it as being as smart as you can, since no human player would have an INT of 25 :) This is one of those issues where you run into the problem of the player not being able to play the character perfectly, ever. You get the same problem with some very smart people trying to play stupid characters and just not realizing that the character is not as smart as they are. Similarly, unfortunately, some people just aren't very smart and can't properly roleplay a 12 or 14 INT, but you do what you can :/
clannagh 12-06-06, 11:10 PM	You play it as being as smart as you can, since no human player would have an INT of 25 :) This is one of those issues where you run into the problem of the player not being able to play the character perfectly, ever. You get the same problem with some very smart people trying to play stupid characters and just not realizing that the character is not as smart as they are. Similarly, unfortunately, some people just aren't very smart and can't properly roleplay a 12 or 14 INT, but you do what you can :/ i would extend that as far as DM's that sometimes seem incapable of playing INT 1 or 2 creatures. Something with INT 2 is not going to really be smart enough to hold an action until it gets a flank from the other monster hidden in the bushes across the path for example.
_m_ 12-06-06, 11:38 PM	the thing is, int 25 is like, einstein x newton to the power of around 50. an int 25 person in rl, would single handedly have inveted... everything that exists... ever... i mean hey, im not stupid... but i think even i may not be quite that smart.
Reska 12-06-06, 11:53 PM	i would extend that as far as DM's that sometimes seem incapable of playing INT 1 or 2 creatures. Something with INT 2 is not going to really be smart enough to hold an action until it gets a flank from the other monster hidden in the bushes across the path for example. While I'd like to concur, I must point out the general tactics of a "Wolf", who will flank from the other wolf. At least, that's what it's like in real life.
Lupo 12-07-06, 04:14 AM	While I'd like to concur, I must point out the general tactics of a "Wolf", who will flank from the other wolf. At least, that's what it's like in real life. yea, but only some animals have a "pack tactics" included in their writeup. most other animals will just go for the nearest foe. from the srd: Wolves are pack hunters known for their persistence and cunning. Combat A favorite tactic is to send a few individuals against the foe’s front while the rest of the pack circles and attacks from the flanks or rear. ciao martin m.
Lupo 12-07-06, 04:25 AM	the thing is, int 25 is like, einstein x newton to the power of around 50. an int 25 person in rl, would single handedly have inveted... everything that exists... ever... i mean hey, im not stupid... but i think even i may not be quite that smart. actually the D&D system of absolute numbers for stats that can go up till the roof (ok, i think even epic characters and monsters stay below 100 in any stat) has no coherence with the (or any) IQ determination system. ciao martin m. ps: i would give einstein something like a int 36 (double any normal human) and wis 27. it would have been wiser to erase any trace of e=m*c^2 ;) and newton definitely gets a wisdom of 6 and a charisma of 6, according to his quarrels and behaviour towards fellow scientists :D not to mention his later imersion into occult studies and doubtful practices of alchemical experiments :rolleyes:
trollbill 12-07-06, 10:56 AM	You play it as being as smart as you can, since no human player would have an INT of 25 :) This is one of those issues where you run into the problem of the player not being able to play the character perfectly, ever. You get the same problem with some very smart people trying to play stupid characters and just not realizing that the character is not as smart as they are. Similarly, unfortunately, some people just aren't very smart and can't properly roleplay a 12 or 14 INT, but you do what you can :/ One way to simulate being smarter than you actually are is to metagame. Your character knows things you don't and can make deductions you never would to give it information you normally wouldn't think it should have. Unfortunately, most DMs frown on this, especially since it is hard to draw the line on how much metagaming equals how much intelligence. But I do find it is a good way, as a DM, to simulate super-intelligent creatures.
Lomiat 12-07-06, 05:21 PM	One way to simulate being smarter than you actually are is to metagame. Your character knows things you don't and can make deductions you never would to give it information you normally wouldn't think it should have. Unfortunately, most DMs frown on this, especially since it is hard to draw the line on how much metagaming equals how much intelligence. But I do find it is a good way, as a DM, to simulate super-intelligent creatures. I agree--to an extent. A wizard, for example, with an INT of 26 and ranks in every knowledge skill in existence is likely to know as much about monsters from the MM as the player does. The MM monsters are the basic studies for such a character. When you start facing monsters from sources other than the MM, then, assuming the player doesn't know them as well as the MM monsters, the PC's ranks and rolls matter more. There's no reason for the player of a 26 INT wizard to pretend the PC doesn't know what sort of weapon bypasses a vampire's DR, nor to have to pretend the PC doesn't know all the basic monster types and their rules for advancement. Etc. Metagaming social encounters is less cool, but can still work from time to time. However, it's also important to remember that a good portion of that 26 INT is frequently devoted to exploring ways of manipulating the energies of the Oerth in order to create something from nothing or to tuck something into nothing or to call a monster from the celestial plane or to turn one thing into another or... etc. Casting a spell IS a way to roleplay a character's particular genius (unlike sorcerers, who simply stumble into spellcasting, or clerics, who beg their deities for their spells [we could say "contract" with their deities], wizards proceed to master the arcane through research and careful application). In the meantime, my wizard is frequently bemused by much that transpires. He's typically aloof, except when he's excited by something magical or simply impatient. It's easy to play a super-intelligent character whose goal is to gather and assimilate information, not necessarily to share it.
clannagh 12-07-06, 05:32 PM	actually the D&D system of absolute numbers for stats that can go up till the roof (ok, i think even epic characters and monsters stay below 100 in any stat) has no coherence with the (or any) IQ determination system. ciao martin m. ps: i would give einstein something like a int 36 (double any normal human) and wis 27. it would have been wiser to erase any trace of e=m*c^2 ;) and newton definitely gets a wisdom of 6 and a charisma of 6, according to his quarrels and behaviour towards fellow scientists :D not to mention his later imersion into occult studies and doubtful practices of alchemical experiments :rolleyes: Newton was also into Astrology but yes .. agreed .. particularly given that the D&D stats sytem is relatively linear and the IQ system is probabilistic (based on 100 being the mean intelligence for your age and every 15 points above or below moving the subject a full standard deviation away from that mean)
denny1824 12-07-06, 07:29 PM	I have always had a problem with trying to roleplay int. When roleplaying a 6int Half-Orc, the other players tend to act like the player is really that stupid, not that he is just acting the part. I have a bigger problem with the 20 int gray elf wizards that are being played by a moron so of course the character acts like a total moron too. When role-playing a low charisma character I always think of this one guy from college. He was a real goof. A nice guy who was smart enough to get A's in class, but was social inept. He even walked like a goof. Kinda like the disney character Goofy. It is hard to describe fully. He was someone unable to intimdate others, or motivate others, or to get his point across in an argument. He was not dumb, but he ended up very low on the social scale.
trollbill 12-07-06, 09:48 PM	yea, but only some animals have a "pack tactics" included in their writeup. most other animals will just go for the nearest foe. The funny thing that gets me is actually how most animals in real life are smarter than their D&D equivalents. At least how most DMs run them. For example, if a party of adventurers encountered a tiger in D&D, it would likely just charge/pounce the nearest target. In the real world, the tiger would most likely have surprise as its senses are even keaner compared to humans IRL than they are in D&D. If it didn't have surprise, it would simply retreat until it could gain surprise. Assuming it decided it just had to eat one of the party members, it would stalk them, possibly for hours, until one of the party members seperated himself from the rest of the party (for whatever reason) and it would take that one by surprise and most likely disappear with the body before anyone could respond. That's far more deadly than D&D.
_m_ 12-07-06, 10:50 PM	The funny thing that gets me is actually how most animals in real life are smarter than their D&D equivalents. At least how most DMs run them. For example, if a party of adventurers encountered a tiger in D&D, it would likely just charge/pounce the nearest target. In the real world, the tiger would most likely have surprise as its senses are even keaner compared to humans IRL than they are in D&D. If it didn't have surprise, it would simply retreat until it could gain surprise. Assuming it decided it just had to eat one of the party members, it would stalk them, possibly for hours, until one of the party members seperated himself from the rest of the party (for whatever reason) and it would take that one by surprise and most likely disappear with the body before anyone could respond. That's far more deadly than D&D. it wouldn't be out of the realms of ordinary thinking for a whole encounter to go and get a whole pack of itself (for animals that hunt in packs), and then just wait until the party were otherwise occupied (ie. starting climbing a cliff, sleeping, or fighting something else) and then just ambushing the crap out of one of the pc's. of course, its at this stage that we must of course be sure to remember that logic really has no place in dungeons and... DRAGONS, and simply take it all in stride.
trollbill 12-07-06, 11:20 PM	it wouldn't be out of the realms of ordinary thinking for a whole encounter to go and get a whole pack of itself (for animals that hunt in packs), and then just wait until the party were otherwise occupied (ie. starting climbing a cliff, sleeping, or fighting something else) and then just ambushing the crap out of one of the pc's. of course, its at this stage that we must of course be sure to remember that logic really has no place in dungeons and... DRAGONS, and simply take it all in stride. My point is that it goes to show just how intelligent a 2 Int creature can be when it comes to combat/survival situations.
_m_ 12-07-06, 11:22 PM	My point is that it goes to show just how intelligent a 2 Int creature can be when it comes to combat/survival situations. indeed. i was, in fact, agreeing with you.
jhorred 12-08-06, 12:40 AM	I didn't read the whole thread.... but here's something I did... I have a half-orc cleric with 12 Int that I played somewhat 'dumb' when spoke common. (You see it was his third language...) When he spoke Orc (his native tongue) he was fluent and even eloquent to a point. The way I made him dumb was to not use pronouns. As in, "Oort not stupid, Common Oort third language." Just come up with a unique, less than perfect speech pattern. He'll come across as being "dumb" but you won't have to play him that way, especially if he does have a decent Wisdom.
kenobi65 12-08-06, 01:51 AM	The way I made him dumb was to not use pronouns. As in, "Oort not stupid, Common Oort third language." Chuckle...sounds exactly like my dumb wood elf barbarian in our home game. "Me take class in Common as Second Language." ;)
paigeoliver 12-08-06, 03:05 AM	Most people seem to overemphasize low intelligence or ignore it completely. While many other people mistakenly act as if 1 point of INT equals 10 IQ points. INT doesn't REALLY translate into IQ at all, but if you want to translate it into IQ then the scale would probably be more like this. INT - IQ 6 - 80 8 - 90 10 - 100 12 - 110 14 - 120 16 - 130 18 - 140 The above chart is based on multiplying the result of the character taking 10 on an INT check by 10, rather than multiplying the raw score by 10. You could also make a chart with very similar numbers simply by matching the 3d6 bell curve to the male IQ bell curve, those two bell curves are really similar in shape. The female bell curve doesn't match up as well though. I myself never dump ALL the mental stats. There isn't a very compelling game mechanic reason to do so unless you really NEED your character to have 16, 16, 15 physical stats. Although I could see the 18, 14, 14 point buy being tempting. I always like to buy at least a 12 in one mental stat, even if the others are at 6 or 8. Usually that means INT or CHA. I currently have the following arrays on characters, not including magic items, but including level bumps, racial adjustments and reincarnations and such. INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 18 (Melee human). INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 12 (Halfling archer). INT 14, WIS 8, CHA 8 and -3 on all charisma skills (Melee halfling). INT 8, WIS 8, CHA 16 (Half-orc cavalry). INT 16, WIS 8, CHA 8 (elven gish). And a 6 charisma dwarven cleric whose other mental stats I don't remember, but they were both positive modifiers. I haven't been able to play him since feb or march, so I just can't remember. I always consider wisdom an automatic stat dump for any character lacking in wisdom based class abilities. I'd rather give my low INT character some Charisma points so they can at least be menacing, attractive, likable, or forceful. Plus, when it comes down to it WISDOM simply isn't as good a choice for characters with few skill points who don't cast. They simply don't have the skill ranks to make their higher wisdom worthwhile. Wisdom as the automatic dump stat could actually be an entire thread by itself.
LGMoses 12-08-06, 10:30 AM	I disagree. Wisdom controls your spot/listen skills and several other skills that are precious to your barbarians including survival. It takes sense to survive in nature. I try not to max my characters out like this one which is a half orc barb feat the following stats: str18/dex14/con15/int6/wis12/cha6. The entire reason this character was made originally was we first learned about LG and its point buy system and some of us were kinda bummed cuz it looked like we might not see an 18. I told everybody I could make a character with an 18 and I did. I then read up on Greyhawk so I could make a decent backstory, made the backstory, and enjoyed the character. He's a VERY useful character so far. We only played one Bright Sands mod but he gave everyone bumps to their fort saves. Absorbed a lot of damage (2hp after the first encounter. Around their rest of game. Comes out fine, goes unconscious once.) He also carries a lot of spare gear that everybody can use on his pack mule. He's just a very friendly half orc that everyone can love :D
trollbill 12-08-06, 10:39 AM	Well, there are a lot of low wisdom adventurers out there. But considering their chosen profession, maybe that's accurate.
Japangirl 12-08-06, 01:28 PM	Wisdom gives will saves, making it ineligible as automatic dump stat to me. After playing a character to 13th level with really bad will saves (5/2/5 in classes with bad will saves, gives me a base will save of +2 at 12th), I can tell you that practically auto-failing the fear or the charm or the dominate or the interact-with-illusions or what have you really really sucks.
Lomiat 12-09-06, 12:15 AM	Wisdom gives will saves, making it ineligible as automatic dump stat to me. After playing a character to 13th level with really bad will saves (5/2/5 in classes with bad will saves, gives me a base will save of +2 at 12th), I can tell you that practically auto-failing the fear or the charm or the dominate or the interact-with-illusions or what have you really really sucks. Go, go WIS dump stat... and permanent mind-blank ability (Occult Slayer)!
paigeoliver 12-09-06, 09:22 AM	Aha, but wisdom vs. INT for spot and listen ends up with wisdom losing. More INT gives you more skill ranks to put in spot and listen, while dumping INT means you won't have enough ranks to max them out (unless you are a ranger, but rangers are a wisdom casting class anyway).
Mattastrophic 12-13-06, 09:52 PM	My least favorite characters are the ones where the player is using the low int/wisdom as an excuse to be a deliberate pain in the butt and harass and annoy the other players. I've played with a lot of roleplayers, ranging from very good to very bad, and here's the guideline I came up with: "If you have to use the excuse 'but that's what my character would do,' to explain why you just made the rest of the table really mad, you're doing something wrong." This covers stuff ranging from refusing to change weapons to bypass DR to blocking charge lanes to automatically spouting racist remarks at any half-Suel you come across. There are PLENTY of ways to roleplay low stats without angering anyone. -Matt
Mattastrophic 12-13-06, 09:57 PM	Now that we're on the topic, any advice on how to run 28 Int, 7 Wis, 20 Cha? I've been running him as very intelligent, very eloquent, but very naive. -Matt
kenobi65 12-13-06, 10:02 PM	Now that we're on the topic, any advice on how to run 28 Int, 7 Wis, 20 Cha? I've been running him as very intelligent, very eloquent, but very naive. Could be reflected as lots of book smarts / education (high Int), strong force of personality (high Cha), but little common sense or real-world experience. Feels like a stereotypical academic. :)
rockondon 12-24-06, 05:00 PM	best way to roleplay 6 chr is to flirt heavily with members of the opposite sex. My main character is a female cleric with 8 chr and the only guy that doesn't turn away from her is an undead guy ;) I play her as being ill-mannered. Being an elf she loves to make fun of half-orcs and dwarves in the party. Dwarves, a race where the men are men and so are the women, a race that can best be removed from your presence with a threat of a bar of soap or a lesson in manners, a race known for humping rocks but can you blame them - look at the women! Half orcs eat their dead, they're strong like ox and smart like the oxcart, and smell so bad that they make ghouls retch not the other way around. I also play her as being socially inept. When someone invites the party into their home she quickly starts eatting their food and any food that falls or spills is concealed with a candelabra or wiped (smeared) with their finest linens. If an NPC is relating a tragic emotional story, my cleric might ruin the atmosphere with laughter. "oops sorry, I just figured out a joke someone told me a few days ago" (she's got 6 int too). If that NPC is crying about her father who's been missing for a week she might matter-of-factly say "oh maybe he's dead." She's very crude. Nose picking isn't frowned upon. And she's oblivious to people's feelings. --Don
KShaver 12-26-06, 09:48 AM	The Intelligence and Wisdom usually interact, IMO. With a 6 INT and 12 WIS, I would think that you understand concepts better and have more common sense than the average human. However, you would have horrible memory, reasoning abilities, vocabulary, and general knowledge. Exactly, though I would go as far as to say the character has an innate sense often of what not to do (like stick his hand in a fire), but has trouble relaying his wisdom to others. All of the mental attributes interact together.The wisom should keeps the character from directly insulting people too often, but the charisma means whatever he does say isn't worded well (or intellectually with 6 int), or hes just plain disgusting to be around. Cha 6 and Int 6 means he just isn't smart enough to fix his own social problems, with wisdom 12 he may have known he should try, but probably eventually gave up after failing miseerably to meet other peoples social standards for the umpteenth time. I think in general he is wise enough to know that many things are simply beyond his mental and social abilities. Of course he is also going to know what his strengths are (even if he can't relay them to others very well) and to put himself between his companions and his opponents in most combat encounters.
LachlarlanIII 12-26-06, 11:45 AM	Now that we're on the topic, any advice on how to run 28 Int, 7 Wis, 20 Cha? I've been running him as very intelligent, very eloquent, but very naive. -Matt I have a character like this, but at his level his stats aren't nearly as high. I play off his 8, soon to be 6, Wis as madness. After encountering That-Which-Was-Not-Meant-To-Be-Known during his first adventure, it seemed only fitting. I took the cue for madness from the Allip. Insane spirits that drain wisdom and turn victims into insane spirits. Low Wisdom for me always equates to minimal common sense or insanity, and insanity is much more fun :D
gomeztoo 12-31-06, 10:27 AM	During 2nd edition, I ha d anumber of PCs thatw ere all gnomes, all of tehs dame family. They were highly intelligent and incredibly naive, believing everyone had a soft spot, was innately good, and could thus be reasoned with. The family's specialty was crafting magic items that woudl never really work the way they wre supposed to. Like the 'urn of knocking', which would open eveything in a 15 foot radius... including trouser buttons, the knots in the ropes of a ship's rigging, purses, and, if you were particularly unlucky, the nails in the floor boards.
draxynnic 01-01-07, 08:29 PM	On roleplaying insanely-high-Int characters... One trick I've used as a DM in one module was saying that any table-chatter is out loud (unless telepathic) front of any NPCs... except when someone was giving advice to a character with insane Intelligence, or to a character that was somehow mentally linked to such a character - the reason being that any character with such a high Intelligence stat would be able to come up with anything the players could on his or her own ;). And I concur with Matt. Like chaotic neutral alignments, low stats shouldn't be an excuse to ruin someone else's game.