Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 09:50 AM	I'm playing my first Lg game this saturday. I want to Play a Scout but not sure that the way i assigned the points would be the best for him just wanted to ask your opinion. If any changes at all should be made please tell thats the whole point of posting it. Should i use other feats? Which race fits a Scout better these are the builds i got so far. Human 14 str 16 dex 14 con 10 int 12 wis 8 cha Feats: PointBlank Shoot and Tactile Trapsmith Halfling 12 str 18 dex 14 con 10 int 12 wis 8 cha Feats: Tactile Trapsmith
Demoyn 08-17-07, 10:02 AM	A lot of it depends on what you'd like to do with him. Do you want to be a very skill-dependant character, or a melee combat character, or ranged combat character, or what? I can tell you just by looking at this, though, not to take two-weapon fighting. The main ability of a scout is that he adds damage when moving. If you're moving, you don't get to make two attacks (until later when you can take special feats, but even then it's limited), so you'll do the same amount of damage with one weapon. Also, unless you have specific designs to go into a divine casting prestige class, I'd definitely take two points from wisdom and assign them to constitution.
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 10:24 AM	A lot of it depends on what you'd like to do with him. Do you want to be a very skill-dependant character, or a melee combat character, or ranged combat character, or what?. I Really want to make as much dmg as posible without being a tank an Archer that could do Rogue can cover a wide range either with dmg or in a dungeon envirment Or take as much advantage of the Skirmish ability as posible. Should i add other classes for this build? I can tell you just by looking at this, though, not to take two-weapon fighting. The main ability of a scout is that he adds damage when moving. If you're moving, you don't get to make two attacks (until later when you can take special feats, but even then it's limited), so you'll do the same amount of damage with one weapon. I did not realize this I'm relatively new to DnD as well and some details i'm still getting use to them. Probably weapon of choice will be Morningstar for now. Thanks for the info Also, unless you have specific designs to go into a divine casting prestige class, I'd definitely take two points from wisdom and assign them to constitution. I see i only did the wis for the mod points for the spot,liste etc...
Ralis 08-17-07, 11:48 AM	Something you should think about, is what sort of prestige classes do you want to take with this character. Character creation is the best time to think about this, as its when you have the most feats and skill points available. Another thing is to look at your regional Meta-orgs, and see if there are any of those you'd like to join. Some can be taken at character creation, while other have requirements for joining. (and some will give you access to prestige classes, and feats that wouldn't be available otherwise.)
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 12:20 PM	Something you should think about, is what sort of prestige classes do you want to take with this character. Character creation is the best time to think about this, as its when you have the most feats and skill points available. Another thing is to look at your regional Meta-orgs, and see if there are any of those you'd like to join. Some can be taken at character creation, while other have requirements for joining. (and some will give you access to prestige classes, and feats that wouldn't be available otherwise.) Wow so i need to do even more research I'm in FL so i will be part of the Principality of Ulek. Anyone that could point me in the direction of meta-orgs for my region? Any sugestions in prestige classes for a Scout? Also i took out the 2 wep fighting feat and took point blank Shoot. also went with the 14 con and 12 wis instead
Demoyn 08-17-07, 01:10 PM	Not really i either wanted to be an Archer that could do Rogue work when it comes to Traps or a Melee fighter and take as much advantage of the Skirmish ability Ok, that's a better start to build upon. If you think the archer path would be something you enjoy, I suggest building upon that. Being somewhat new to D&D, an archer is an easy way to learn, since you're not up front in combat and it's easier to move around in the back for your skirmish damage (don't have to worry as much about attacks of opportunity). The two must-have feats for an archer are point blank shot and precise shot. Tactile trapsmith is a moderately nice feat, but you can resolve the need for this by maneuvering your stats a bit. I know I suggested to increase your con, but if you're going to be a backfield archer you can live with 12. We can take the two points from con, and two more points from wisdom to set your int at 14. This will increase your search and disable by two, minimizing the loss of tactile trapsmith (while also giving you 8 more skill points and 2 more languages). The loss to listen, spot, and survival is minimal. These are just suggestions, obviously. Do whatever you think seems fun to you. Personally, I have an elven scout, because the bonus to dex is better than the bonus feat. Of course, with the human you'll have fun for the first two levels, whereas I have to sit around being bored until level 3.
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 01:40 PM	Ok, that's a better start to build upon. If you think the archer path would be something you enjoy, I suggest building upon that. Being somewhat new to D&D, an archer is an easy way to learn, since you're not up front in combat and it's easier to move around in the back for your skirmish damage (don't have to worry as much about attacks of opportunity). The two must-have feats for an archer are point blank shot and precise shot. Tactile trapsmith is a moderately nice feat, but you can resolve the need for this by maneuvering your stats a bit. I know I suggested to increase your con, but if you're going to be a backfield archer you can live with 12. We can take the two points from con, and two more points from wisdom to set your int at 14. This will increase your search and disable by two, minimizing the loss of tactile trapsmith (while also giving you 8 more skill points and 2 more languages). The loss to listen, spot, and survival is minimal. These are just suggestions, obviously. Do whatever you think seems fun to you. Personally, I have an elven scout, because the bonus to dex is better than the bonus feat. Of course, with the human you'll have fun for the first two levels, whereas I have to sit around being bored until level 3. I really like the archer route and if thats the case then the extra feat as a human won't matter because i don't have to be involve directly in the action.(on the front line) Elf sounds good but then i might have to arrange the points around i'm creating an elf scout as i finish this post can you suggest I got this so far Elf Scout (including mod) 12 str 18 dex 12 con 14 int 10 wis 8 cha Feat: PointBlank Shoot
Istaran 08-17-07, 02:01 PM	I personally recommend over prestige classing using feats from Complete Scoundrel for mid/late game. Concider: Scout 3/Ranger 1/Scout X At level 5 you get a Scout bonus feat which can be Swift Hunter. This lets Scout and Ranger stack for Skirmish and Favored Enemies (giving you 2d6/+1 AC and 2 enemies) and allows you to skirmish your favored enemies as though they were not immune to crits. Take undead as one; you will not regret it. The rest should likely be from the list of: elementals, oozes, constructs, and plants. These are things that will otherwise ignore your skirmish. Find out from experience and/or asking around which of those types show up a lot in your area. At level 6, because of Swift Hunter, you qualify for Improved Skirmish. Take it. At that point you have 4d6/+3AC skirmish if you move 20'. At level 15 this reaches 6d6/+6 AC w/ 20' move. Following above but using Rogue/Swift Ambusher instead of Ranger/Swift Hunter, and going Scout 3/Rogue 1/Scout 1(4th)/Rogue X - At level 15 you have 6d6/+6 AC improved skirmish and 6d6 sneak attack. They stack (for +12d6) but are more difficult to combine. For melee you could tumble around an opponent to get a flank and smack them, or for ranged you need invis or something. However, you will be much less effective when facing crit immune. (If you can, pick up the alt class feature that lets you do 1/2 SA to crit immune creatures.. All Greyhawk Ruins chars have access.) This makes the tactical manuevers a more interesting and complex problem but having +12d6 precision damage can hurt (average +42 damage.. you should be able to cause death from massive damage rolls regularly, which is always nice). Alternative approach would be taking an arcane caster class and picking up Unseen Seer from Complete Mage. As you level it will give you +1d6 skirmish (no AC bumps) every 3 levels (starting at 1st). You still want Improved Skirmish. In this case you are still denied your bonus damage vs undead and others, but you will have spells to suppliment your abilities. It can be nice when dealing with high armor/nat armor critters, because you can skirmish with a touch attack spell (shocking grasp, orbs, etc.) This would be like Scout 4/caster class 1/Unseen Seer 10. Warmage gives you a lot of offensive options with little thought on your side and I believe it autoqualifies for the casting requirements (I think they get True Strike and one other 1st level div spell..). It also benefits quite nicely from the Advanced Learning, and lets you keep up the light armor w/o spell failure. Downside is you need to invest in charisma. Wizard can be good, and just needs the int you already want for skills, but will give you some trouble with spell failure. You also need to put a lot more thought into spell selection. I would imagine Beguiler is a good choice but I haven't looked it over enough. Do they get the required 2 div spells at 1st level? Using this route at level 15 w/ improved skirmish you have +7d6/+3AC, and cast as an 11th level arcane caster (with CL 14 on div spells, CL 8 on non-div spells. CL 15/12 if you take Practiced spellcaster). Note that you lack HP though, and your BAB is not so good.
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 02:09 PM	I got this so far Elf Scout (including mod) 12 str 18 dex 12 con 14 int 10 wis 8 cha Feat: PointBlank Shoot wearing Studded leather armor.
bjdaredevil01 08-17-07, 02:20 PM	Concider: Scout 3/Ranger 1/Scout X At level 5 you get a Scout bonus feat which can be Swift Hunter. This lets Scout and Ranger stack for Skirmish and Favored Enemies (giving you 2d6/+1 AC and 2 enemies) and allows you to skirmish your favored enemies as though they were not immune to crits. Take undead as one; you will not regret it. The rest should likely be from the list of: elementals, oozes, constructs, and plants. These are things that will otherwise ignore your skirmish. Find out from experience and/or asking around which of those types show up a lot in your area. At level 6, because of Swift Hunter, you qualify for Improved Skirmish. Take it. At that point you have 4d6/+3AC skirmish if you move 20'. At level 15 this reaches 6d6/+6 AC w/ 20' move. I like this build the most because is a bit simpler than the rogue though the Rogue route sounds sweeter for all the Dmg. That would be the reason of picking Scout/Ranger/Scout. Since i'm new at it i don't want it to get to busy for me. That being said by the time i gain the lvls in 3 Lvl in Scout i might understand it all quite a bit more Following above but using Rogue/Swift Ambusher instead of Ranger/Swift Hunter, and going Scout 3/Rogue 1/Scout 1(4th)/Rogue X - At level 15 you have 6d6/+6 AC improved skirmish and 6d6 sneak attack. They stack (for +12d6) but are more difficult to combine. For melee you could tumble around an opponent to get a flank and smack them, or for ranged you need invis or something. However, you will be much less effective when facing crit immune. (If you can, pick up the alt class feature that lets you do 1/2 SA to crit immune creatures.. All Greyhawk Ruins chars have access.) This makes the tactical manuevers a more interesting and complex problem but having +12d6 precision damage can hurt (average +42 damage.. you should be able to cause death from massive damage rolls regularly, which is always nice). I love this build more because all the possible dmg. However having 2 preferred enemies could come very useful in my adventures as a ranger.
Demoyn 08-17-07, 04:48 PM	I really like the archer route and if thats the case then the extra feat as a human won't matter because i don't have to be involve directly in the action.(on the front line) Elf sounds good but then i might have to arrange the points around i'm creating an elf scout as i finish this post can you suggest I got this so far Elf Scout (including mod) 12 str 18 dex 12 con 14 int 10 wis 8 cha Feat: PointBlank Shoot That looks like a solid first character. Just keep in mind (as I said before), that without precise shot you won't have nearly as much fun. The enjoyment will start at level 3 (because you're going to take a -4 to hit every creature standing near an ally until you pick up that feat). Also, while this is a solid character, feats matter to ALL characters (except maybe clerics) the same. In fact, the only feat tree more heavily involved than the archer is two-weapon fighting. I still think elf makes the better scout though. Also, if you want to go with the scout/ranger concept (personally I like it), then you may want to think about switching to WOOD elf. It's the same for the most part, except you'd get more stats. Just simply take the stats you have right now and add +2 str and -2 int. It'll make your search and disable go down by a point, but it'll make your damage go up by a point (once you buy a composite bow). More importantly, though, ranger is the favored class for the wood elf (as opposed to wizard for the high elf), so you'll save yourself from an experience penalty that way later on in life.
Infinitive 08-17-07, 05:23 PM	I'm going to throw a couple of suggestions your way that most around here would probably hesitate at, but since you're relatively new, i think simple ought to be a good thing. One of the best options for a Scout (especially a ranged one) is actually Order of the Bow Initiate, a prestige class that is actually very weak for most classes. However, since a scout must move to gain his skirmish damage, firing a single shot as a standard action is really not a drawback for them, and as OotBI give you an additional 1d8 damage at each odd level, that one shot can become almost absurdly powerful. Consider the following: Scout 3/ Fighter 2/ Swashbuckler 1/ Order of the Bow Initiate 10 Make sure to take Improved Skirmish as one of your feats as soon as you can (3rd level is usually a good choice). In addition to pumping your skirmish to 3d6, you'll end up with Weapon Finesse for melee and 2 more feats that you can use to customize your character further. The PHB2 has several great archery feats, so be sure to check that out. Option B (My personal favorite): The Skirmish Dervish. Scout 3/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 1/ Dervish 1/ Fighter 1 (for Imp. TWF)/ Dervish X Again, pick up Improved Skirmish early; it'll never stop being good for you. Here, though, Swift Hunter enables your skirmish against more potential enemies and increases it by a die category. Even better, once you get into Dervish, you get to start making movement during your full attack sequence. Picture this (A sequence available almost as soon as you enter Dervish): 5-foot step into position. First attack. 5-foot step (Dervish Dance). Offhand attack, now with basic skirmish. 5-foot step. Second iterative attack, including skirmish. 5-foot step. Second offhand attack, now with Improved Skirmish as well as standard skirmish. In this particular attack sequence (presuming all attacks connected), Skirmish will have added a whopping 8d6 damage to your standard attack progression. make sure to get a nice, high strength and decent armor for this, though, because your accuracy is key, and those 5-foots provoke AoO's.
JamesMaissen 08-17-07, 08:00 PM	I'm playing my first Lg game this saturday. I want to Play a Scout but not sure that the way i assigned the points would be the best for him just wanted to ask your opinion. Well this depends on a lot of factors. Early on the scout's +1d6 skirmish is significant and is felt, so a low level archer does moderately well. But archery is really based on the full attack action in order to do damage.. scout doesn't work well with it. Dervish (complete warrior) is a *very* natural fit for a scout and something to strongly consider (or even assume) for the character. I would make the following scout-dervish character: Human Scout4/Ranger1/Fighter1/Dervish3 and then either continue with Dervish, or pick up a level of wizard and go into Unseen Seer. Now this is ignoring all the consternation of 4e being around the corner and all that, so you will want to weigh that into things. STR 14 INT 14 WIS 08 DEX 14 CON 14 CHA 08 with 4 points left over to raise STR, DEX or CON to a 16. Scout 1 Dodge, Mobility Scout 2 Fighter1 Weapon Focus (Falchion or Guisarme), Combat expertise Ranger1 (track) Scout 3 Scout 4 Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish Dervish1 Dervish2 Dervish3 (Spring attack), Whirlwind And then go from there into whatever conversion to 4e that keeps the character's identity intact, James
waynec 08-18-07, 04:00 AM	I've played a scout for a while. Great class for a new player. Theres lots of ways you could go but the way that your going is great. I'd personally drop the tactile trapsmith for the moment and add precise so that you can shoot into melee. The 3 point gain from tact trap will not have the same advantage as precise. Traps don't come up as often as combat and you can still contribute with your skill points. Move 10, shoot and stay with 30' for point blank damage and you'll find yourself doing 1d8 + 1d6 +1. Nice at 1st level. That and your 36 skill points and your party will love you. 1st rule of LG - Have fun!!! Wayne C.
Hariman 08-18-07, 06:41 PM	Well this depends on a lot of factors. Early on the scout's +1d6 skirmish is significant and is felt, so a low level archer does moderately well. But archery is really based on the full attack action in order to do damage.. scout doesn't work well with it. Dervish (complete warrior) is a *very* natural fit for a scout and something to strongly consider (or even assume) for the character. I would make the following scout-dervish character: Human Scout4/Ranger1/Fighter1/Dervish3 and then either continue with Dervish, or pick up a level of wizard and go into Unseen Seer. Now this is ignoring all the consternation of 4e being around the corner and all that, so you will want to weigh that into things. STR 14 INT 14 WIS 08 DEX 14 CON 14 CHA 08 with 4 points left over to raise STR, DEX or CON to a 16. Scout 1 Dodge, Mobility Scout 2 Fighter1 Weapon Focus (Falchion or Guisarme), Combat expertise Ranger1 (track) Scout 3 Scout 4 Swift Hunter, Improved Skirmish Dervish1 Dervish2 Dervish3 (Spring attack), Whirlwind And then go from there into whatever conversion to 4e that keeps the character's identity intact, James Looks cool. You might consider taking fighter one level earlier so that you can take Weapon Focus and Dodge at first level then take Mobility at second level. That +1 from Weapon Focus means more at level 1 than at level 3.
JamesMaissen 08-19-07, 02:58 AM	Looks cool. You might consider taking fighter one level earlier so that you can take Weapon Focus and Dodge at first level then take Mobility at second level. That +1 from Weapon Focus means more at level 1 than at level 3. You can't take weapon focus without a +1 BAB. Also of all the classes, scout benefits the most from getting mobility early on as if you are in melee you need to tumble away for the skirmish. Also there are a fair number of skills that give synergies, and allowing them to come online at 2nd is nice when everything else is equal. Living with a longspear isn't all that hard for 2 levels, James
Hariman 08-20-07, 12:14 PM	You can't take weapon focus without a +1 BAB. Also of all the classes, scout benefits the most from getting mobility early on as if you are in melee you need to tumble away for the skirmish. Also there are a fair number of skills that give synergies, and allowing them to come online at 2nd is nice when everything else is equal. Living with a longspear isn't all that hard for 2 levels, James Oops. Forgot about that. Still, getting Weapon Focus at level 2 as opposed to 3 could help. Having the character's attack bonus jump by 2 instead of 1 a level earlier is a good thing.
Istaran 08-22-07, 04:53 PM	Scout 3/ Fighter 2/ Swashbuckler 1/ Order of the Bow Initiate 10 Make sure to take Improved Skirmish as one of your feats as soon as you can (3rd level is usually a good choice). In addition to pumping your skirmish to 3d6, you'll end up with Weapon Finesse for melee and 2 more feats that you can use to customize your character further... I've been wrong at least once in my life, but I'm quite certain Improved Skirmish requires 2d6/1 ac of skirmish, meaning minimum level 5. And since you don't get a feat at 5 and the feats that let you stack classes for skirmish aren't available at level 3 (they all require 1d6/1 ac skirmish plus something from another class) you basically are stuck getting it at 6th. However, since those class-stacking feats are explicitly allowed as Scout bonus feats (and so is Improved Skirmish), it's possible to get both a stacking feat and Improved Skirmish by 6th as long as you get your other class started before Scout level 4. So this build will never have more than 1d6/1ac of skirmish. I would make the following scout-dervish character: Human Scout4/Ranger1/Fighter1/Dervish3 and then either continue with Dervish, or pick up a level of wizard and go into Unseen Seer. Do Ranger 1 before 4th level of Scout and this can work quite well I think. Anything that gets you multiple hits after moving will help a scout greatly.
Mithreinmaethor 08-22-07, 05:06 PM	I've been wrong at least once in my life, but I'm quite certain Improved Skirmish requires 2d6/1 ac of skirmish, meaning minimum level 5. And since you don't get a feat at 5 and the feats that let you stack classes for skirmish aren't available at level 3 (they all require 1d6/1 ac skirmish plus something from another class) you basically are stuck getting it at 6th. However, since those class-stacking feats are explicitly allowed as Scout bonus feats (and so is Improved Skirmish), it's possible to get both a stacking feat and Improved Skirmish by 6th as long as you get your other class started before Scout level 4. So this build will never have more than 1d6/1ac of skirmish. Do Ranger 1 before 4th level of Scout and this can work quite well I think. Anything that gets you multiple hits after moving will help a scout greatly. Ranger 1 / Scout 4 can get you improved Skirmish at 5th. You just need to take swift hunter at 3rd
Infinitive 08-22-07, 05:18 PM	Yeah, i messed up on that post- for some reason, I thought the req was 1d6/+1. Still, juggle a couple of levels of Ranger into the build and it works. Scout 3/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 1/ OotBI X Costs you an extra feat. Oh well. Play human, win the game. I know it's a bit cynical, but seriously. I've played 3.X since it came out, and I can count the number of instances in that time where it's been worth it to play a nonhuman on the finger of one hand, and those instances almost always correspond to a racial PrC, like Champ of Correllon. On a side note, that build has you doing 2d8+4d6+Str on your big shot at 7th level. Not too bad for a PC that's going to be able to function as a party skillmonkey as well.
TWG_Prometheus 08-22-07, 05:39 PM	Ranger 1 / Scout 4 can get you improved Skirmish at 5th. You just need to take swift hunter at 3rd Swift Hunter at 3rd is impossible. You need to be able to Skirmish +1d6/+1 AC, and have a Ranger level. You can't meet those requirements until level 4 at the earliest. (Ranger 1/Scout 3)
Istaran 08-22-07, 06:17 PM	Yeah, i messed up on that post- for some reason, I thought the req was 1d6/+1. Still, juggle a couple of levels of Ranger into the build and it works. Scout 3/ Ranger 2/ Fighter 1/ OotBI X Costs you an extra feat. Oh well. Play human, win the game. I know it's a bit cynical, but seriously. I've played 3.X since it came out, and I can count the number of instances in that time where it's been worth it to play a nonhuman on the finger of one hand, and those instances almost always correspond to a racial PrC, like Champ of Correllon. On a side note, that build has you doing 2d8+4d6+Str on your big shot at 7th level. Not too bad for a PC that's going to be able to function as a party skillmonkey as well. You want 4th level of scout for the bonus feat so you can get Improved Skirmish at 6th rather than 9th. So Scout 4/Ranger 1/Fighter 1/OotBI X. Especially since Rapid Shot and Two Weapon Fighting are both the opposite of your main combat strategy. Going human for the 1st level Point Blank Shot/Precise Shot combo will make you much happier at the beginning. Otherwise levels 1 and 2 will be unpleasant. If you insist on going elf or such, try to talk to your fellow players in advance and make sure they are concious of the fact you can contribute more if you get clean shots, and coordinate timing with them (i.e. you delay until they make their melee attack and 5' back, so you can get a clean shot off.) In my experience, melee characters don't think about that, but hopefully your party will be conciderate if politely reminded.
JamesMaissen 08-23-07, 04:12 PM	Do Ranger 1 before 4th level of Scout and this can work quite well I think. Anything that gets you multiple hits after moving will help a scout greatly. Nod, you'll note the suggested progression that I gave. Also towards the order of the bow scout.. even with all that wonderful skirmish, you will be far behind the damage curve to a volley archer. I suggest that you go with the melee route, if you need to use a bow then do so and still enjoy your skirmish dice. But investing all the feats and the class levels won't get sufficient return for you. -James
jhorred 08-29-07, 04:28 PM	I have a Scout 3 that I was planning on making a dervish after 7 levels of scout. I don't know if I'll be able to play him enough to get him that high with the other things I want to do with my other characters.