Post/Author/DateTime	Post
lunarfish 03-18-07, 05:31 PM	Due to a combination of incredible boredom at the time of writing and the need for another character (hey, someone's gotta play cores while my other characters are engaged in various plotlines), I've decided to partake of the "wisdom" of these boards. I'm trying for a mounted archer (think the Mongol horse archers), and beyond this (very basic) build concept, I'm pretty open for suggestions. Here goes nothing (well, something, but not much): Race: Human Str - 14 Dex - 16 Con - 14 Int - 10 Wis - 12 Cha - 8 Requirements for the PrCs are bolded. 01 - Ranger - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Track, 02 - Ranger - Rapid Shot, Archery Combat Style 03 - Fighter - Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Mounted Combat 04 - Fighter - Weapon Focus (Longbow) 05 - Ranger - Endurance 06 - Ranger - Manyshot, Animal Companion 07 - Beastmaster - 08 - Fighter - 09 - Fighter - Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Ranged Weapon Mastery (Piercing) 10 - Beastmaster - Scent (because it's just too useful not to grab) 11 - Wild Plains Outrider - 12 - Wild Plains Outrider - Improved Precise Shot 13 - Wild Plains Outrider - 14 - Ranger - 15 - Ranger - Manyshot (retrain 6th level feat), Improved Rapid Shot, Improved Combat Style 16 - Ranger - Level bumps 04: Dexterity 08: Dexterity 12: Dexterity 16: Dexterity Any (constructive) input is welcome, and constructive advice especially so.
Mommy was an Orc 03-18-07, 06:54 PM	Well, something I'd look at is that Mounted Archery, Manyshot, and Improved Rapid Shot really don't do a lot for you. How often are you not taking a full attack action and not using your horse to move. I'd make your 1st 9 levels like so: 01 - Ranger - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Track 02 - Ranger - Rapid Shot, Archery Combat Style 03 - Fighter - Mounted Combat, Skill Focus(Handle Animal) 04 - Fighter - Weapon Focus (Longbow) 05 - Ranger - Endurance 06 - Ranger - Skill Focus(Handle Animal), Animal Companion 07 - Beastmaster 1 08 - Fighter 09 - Fighter 4: Weapon Specialization, Ranged Weapon Mastery(Piercing) Then pick up Wild Plains Outrider 1-3 with Improved Precise Shot at 12th. Beastmaster 2 followed by Ranger 5-6 with Manyshot/Improved Rapid Shot at 15th.
lunarfish 03-18-07, 08:49 PM	Why do you suggest taking Skill Focus (Handle Animal) twice? Wouldn't Manyshot or Mounted Archery fit in the second feat slot? Also, could you be more specific as to why your presented progression would be a superior one? I'm not sure I understand, since yours looks almost like an unmounted archer and an animal companion - which is not what I'm trying to build.
cetiken 03-18-07, 09:39 PM	Here's the odd thing about mounted archery. You don't actually need the feets to do it in 90% of the situations. I'm playing an 8th level archer (Ranger 6/ Horizon Walker 2) and since I've had my animal companion (light horse) I've often used him whenever feasible (and when I didn't forget). According to mounted rules, you don't take any penalty if your mount makes a single move action. How often on a battle mat situation is it really viable to move more than 50 ft/ rd? Also, you can almost always make a full round attack on a mount (assuming sufficient ride skill). Based on this experience I'd recommend dropping your int to 8, boosting str to 16. Get an +2 wis amulet and take 6 ranger levels. that'll give you Manyshot as a bonus feat and let you take Improved Rapid Shot. Cast 2 level 1 ranger spells per day (Resist Energy and Arrowmind (SC) are my favorite options) the extra strength will let you deal +1 damage. You'll also get a favored enemy upgrade (choosing that wisely baised on region can be very good). Okay, I wandered off and read about the Wild Plains Outrider, and since it only requires the Mounted Combat feat (definatly not a great feet but not that bad either) and does improve your ride check (making mounted combat more likely to succeed) as well as actually improving your companion it wouldn't be a bad thing to take two levels of. Level three seems to do almost nothing for you (other than +1 to druid companion level and +1 to ride) so I'd stop at two levels. You might be better off continuing straight ranger - evasion at level nine is nice. If you went that path, I'd go ahead and boost wis to 14 instead of str. That'll give you more of the cool Spell Compendium ranger spells. Going straight fighter after you get your companion is another valid choice gaining Weapon Spec, and Greater Weapon Focus eventually. I'd make sure you keep your survival maxed out though so you can keep tracking things - that'll be your expected role outside of combat.
Mommy was an Orc 03-18-07, 09:42 PM	Ah, free bonus feat. I was just suggesting something, and did it twice.
Akhamshyy 03-18-07, 09:48 PM	Why are you taking Weapon Focus: Longbow? Shouldn't that be Weapon Focus: Shortbow. Is there something in your build I'm missing that lets you use a longbow while mounted?
cetiken 03-18-07, 09:52 PM	Why are you taking Weapon Focus: Longbow? Shouldn't that be Weapon Focus: Shortbow. Is there something in your build I'm missing that lets you use a longbow while mounted? I think I made the same mistake as you initially. Let me quote you the Composite Longbow entry from the SRD (emphasis mine) Longbow, Composite You need at least two hands to use a bow, regardless of its size. You can use a composite longbow while mounted. All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a -2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. For purposes of weapon proficiency and similar feats, a composite longbow is treated as if it were a longbow. So no need to gymp yourself with a shortbow.
Akhamshyy 03-18-07, 10:03 PM	OK, good to know if I ever need to shoot while mounted.
lunarfish 03-19-07, 04:41 PM	OK, Well, I've fiddled with the build in class today, and here's what I've come up with - I think intelligence needs to stay at a 10 minimum. I plotted his first five levels on Heroforge, and he has a requirement of at least 5 skills - Handle Animal, Ride, Spot, Listen, Survival. On top of that, I'm going to need Knowledge: Geography for the local meta-org I'm planning for him to join, Knowledge: Nature and Search for their synergy bonuses to certain Survival checks, and I'd like to fit in a cross-class rank or two of Knowledge: Local. Having only 1 "flex" skill point per ranger level, and being at a severe shortage during my fighter levels, is going to be a hard pill to swallow, and I can forget about any synergy skills. However, those two points of Int (from 12 to 10) could be put into Wisdom or Strength - allowing me to either cast ranger spells or eventually have a +3 strength bow. The statements involving Mounted Archery prompted me to re-read the section on it, and I had read it incorrectly. My (incorrect) interpretation was that I took a -4 penalty any time my mount took a move action. Without factoring in the -4 penalty, the attack modifiers look much more reasonable. I've edited the build to account for your input. Thanks for all of your help, and I will continue to appreciate any comments, excepting any that would encourage me to play a Wood Elf. If you encourage me to Wood-elfdom, I will be ashamed of you.
clannagh 03-21-07, 12:27 AM	Due to a combination of incredible boredom at the time of writing and the need for another character (hey, someone's gotta play cores while my other characters are engaged in various plotlines), I've decided to partake of the "wisdom" of these boards. I'm trying for a mounted archer (think the Mongol horse archers), and beyond this (very basic) build concept, I'm pretty open for suggestions. Here goes nothing (well, something, but not much): Race: Human Str - 14 Dex - 16 Con - 14 Int - 10 Wis - 12 Cha - 8 Requirements for the PrCs are bolded. 01 - Ranger - Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Track, 02 - Ranger - Rapid Shot, Archery Combat Style 03 - Fighter - Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Mounted Combat 04 - Fighter - Weapon Focus (Longbow) 05 - Ranger - Endurance 06 - Ranger - Manyshot, Animal Companion 07 - Beastmaster - 08 - Fighter - 09 - Fighter - Weapon Specialization (Longbow), Ranged Weapon Mastery (Piercing) 10 - Beastmaster - Scent (because it's just too useful not to grab) 11 - Wild Plains Outrider - 12 - Wild Plains Outrider - Improved Precise Shot 13 - Wild Plains Outrider - 14 - Ranger - 15 - Ranger - Manyshot (retrain 6th level feat), Improved Rapid Shot, Improved Combat Style 16 - Ranger - Level bumps 04: Dexterity 08: Dexterity 12: Dexterity 16: Dexterity Any (constructive) input is welcome, and constructive advice especially so. a few generic comments - ranged fighters generally have no trouble hitting but problems with damage, consider less dex and more strength, some people even take a level of barbarian and a second bigger bow to get rage strength added - many shot and rapid shot do not go together well in the same build - consider woodland archer instead of improved rapid shot, depending on your stats, statistically it can work out giving you more hits - natural bond will help this build if you can get access - if your mount flies consider craigtop archer
cetiken 03-21-07, 07:21 PM	- many shot and rapid shot do not go together well in the same build Gota disagree with this. I initially took Ranger 6 mostly to qualify for Improved Rapid Shot, but I've found there's a lot of instances where its useful to pop off a Manyshot. When readying an action to disrupt spellcasting In the surprise round When you have to make a listen check to locate the invisible enemy