Sorcerer for Greyhawk Ruins [Archive] - Wizards Community

Sorcerer for Greyhawk Ruins [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
fghj171983
03-08-07, 04:31 PM I am thinking about playing a sorcerer for Greyhawk Ruins. This will be my first sorcerer in LG so I would apprechiate any suggestions you all may have. So far I know that we will have a rog and a bard in our group. What prestige classes is really kinda stumping me. A friend of mine has a sorc going mage of the arcane order so i want to do something different than that. I like 4 lvls of fatespinner but besides that I am not sure. Heres my stats and some spells I will probly be taking. Feat wise I was thinking of possibly spell foc and greater spell foc conjuration or evocation. Also is energy substitution needed? I kinda want to be blaster/battlefield controller can anyone suggest any other good blasting spells I am missing?

Human
str 8
dex 14 maybe 12 dex
con 14
int 8 and 10 int if needed for a prestige class
wis 8
cha 18

1: Sor - spell foc, greater spell foc (magic missle, grease)
2: Sor -
3: Sor - empower(Enlarge)
4: Sor - (scorching ray), pump cha
5: Sor - (glitterdust, mage armor?)
6: Sor? - energy substitution cold?, (Lightning bolt)
7: Sor? - (Protection from evil?, Web, Fly)
8: Sor? - (Evard’s black tentacles) pump cha
9: Sor? - (False life, Slow, Dimension door) sculpt spell
10: Sor? - (Firebrand?)
11: Sor? - (2nd lvl spell?, 3rd lvl spell?, enervation, teleport?)
12: Sor? - (Disintegrate) pump cha, feat?
13: Sor? - (Dimensional Anchor, Hold monster?, Greater Dispel Magic)
14: Sor? - (Force cage?)
15: Sor? - (5th lvl spell?, true seeing, 7th lvl spell?)

Feel free to critique my spells chosen and order of them taken. Would love any help you all can give. :D
Alpha_Nerd
03-08-07, 04:35 PM You should look at the Draconic Heritage feats, specifically Draconic Breath. It's a solid way to deal no-SR damage to an area, freeing up your spells known. Also, you could drop the CHA down to a 16 and pick up a wisdom of 14 for Arcane Disciple.
fghj171983
03-08-07, 04:56 PM I may take a look at the heritage feats I hear the infernal ones are pretty good too though I don't have my phb2 on me so I'll look it up later. Not that into arcane disciple. It eats up a feat, skill points and stat points. Just not worth it too me. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Efekjek
03-08-07, 05:02 PM to me, it looks like you're goin for maximum DC ownage, so i think fatespinner is the way to go.

at least that's what i would do if i hadn't gone for mage o' the arcane order
Rerednaw
03-08-07, 05:04 PM ...Feat wise I was thinking of possibly spell foc and greater spell foc conjuration or evocation. Also is energy substitution needed? I kinda want to be blaster/battlefield controller can anyone suggest any other good blasting spells I am missing?
...

The spell selection looks fairly solid. More nuking than I would take but then I'm a battlefield control/summoner.

I would drop Enlarge. Wands of enlarge are now core. Most fighters I know that want enlarge are now carrying wands or they paid the 25gp each for a scroll or two.

Your spell DCs are going to be very high so maybe another save or die spell is in order. I'd also give Ray of Enfeeblement a look.

As an alternative to the Heritage nuking, the reserve feats from Complete Mage are worth taking a look at. The downside is that the spell casting requirements put your sorceror a level behind.

Another feat to consider is Metamagic School Focus. 3x a day metamagics in your chosen (i.e. specialist OR spell focus) school are at -1. i.e. Sculpt for +0, Extend for +0, Empower for +1, etc.

I'd move sculpt spell ahead of energy substitution. You have alternatives to nuking with fire already and having the capability to place glitterdust/grease/web in 4 neat 10x10 cubes can be huge.

With an 8 int you are only going to have 2 points per level. That's not my playstyle but if it works for you go ahead, I've seen many builds with 3 dump stats.

Another thing to consider, don't forget your free spell swaps. If you are going to take teleport, consider retraining dimension door into something else.
fghj171983
03-08-07, 05:05 PM to me, it looks like you're goin for maximum DC ownage, so i think fatespinner is the way to go.

at least that's what i would do

Yea with a high cha, spell foc, greater spell foc, along with fate spinner DC's should be pretty solid. Though thats still only 4 lvls Id prefer something better than Sor 11 Fatespinner 4. :P Still need suggestions!
Alpha_Nerd
03-08-07, 08:17 PM You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation
bitznarf
03-08-07, 08:19 PM You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation

:D
Evanta
03-08-07, 09:00 PM I'd put comprehend languages / tongues in somewhere so that your party will be able to understand all the ancient inscriptions whenever needed.

Except for me seriously disliking gnomes, shadowcraft mage is solid for increasing ur versatility and overall power.
magebeast
03-08-07, 10:15 PM If you're not going for any PRc in particular, fatespinner is a fairly solid choice - you're not required to invest to heavily to get into it. One thing to keep in mind is that level 15 as a sorcerer doesn't net you any higher level spells - only another spell of 7th level known and another cast per day. If you've already got four levels of the PrC under your belt before you hit 15, you can always make the choice of what to take *at* 15. If you find yourself pretty well set in the spells known department, but would like to have one of your save or die spells have a little extra kick, Fatespinner 5 isn't a terrible choice as far as I can see. Not having played to that level, I don't know absolutely, but it seems like a potential trade off ot me.
fghj171983
03-08-07, 11:53 PM You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation

Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D
bitznarf
03-09-07, 12:00 AM Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D

You might want to consider a level of Mindbender. It seems to fit the flavour you have presented, and doesn't cost you a feat. Some cross class skills, but still.
Evanta
03-09-07, 12:27 AM Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D

I think the only PrC that doesn't sacrifice caster levels, and is appropiate, is fatespinner. Only thing that might seem useful for nuker is holy scourge.

For feats though, suggest you drop greater focus, and take empower spell at level 1, then take craft wondrous at level 3. Find a place to slot metamagic school focus in too.

Alternatively, you might want to look at taking the heritage feats. Dragon breath, Sorcerer howl looks decent, Celestial Sorcerer Lore + Wings I like a lot, but the pre-reqs for Sorcerer Lore suck.
copper_wyrmling
03-09-07, 01:03 AM I think the only PrC that doesn't sacrifice caster levels, and is appropiate, is fatespinner. Only thing that might seem useful for nuker is holy scourge.

Wild Mage doesn't lose caster levels, but it's NONC and it requires a mostly-pointless feat (and then tempts you to take Practised Spellcaster, eating another feat slot). Ruathar has easy requirements but is NONC and doesn't give much besides skills (although those can make qualifying for other PrCs much easier). Mindbender is nice for a one-level dip, if you can get the skill requirements together, but is NONC.
Rerednaw
03-09-07, 09:57 AM Wild Mage doesn't lose caster levels, but it's NONC and it requires a mostly-pointless feat (and then tempts you to take Practised Spellcaster, eating another feat slot). Ruathar has easy requirements but is NONC and doesn't give much besides skills (although those can make qualifying for other PrCs much easier). Mindbender is nice for a one-level dip, if you can get the skill requirements together, but is NONC.

I consider Wild Mage a 1 level dip mainly for 1) Warmage or 2) Wizard. Both those classes get the extra feats so the 2 feats you lose with Wild Mage don't hurt as much. With a sorceror you don't really have the luxury.

But if you are playing an evoker, instead of spending two feats plus a class dip for extra 1-3 caster levels, you could take a Reserve feat instead to get 1 extra caster level with one type (fire, electricity, acid, summoning, etc...).

I'm kind of fond of Cloudy Conjuration myself. Sicken plus concealment when you summon is kind of neat.
Timlagor
03-09-07, 10:28 AM Attributes look good to me. You won't want to rely too heavily on Orbs and Rays with relatively low Dex and no PBS/PS. Given that and a probable general lack of AC you might dump Dex altogether except that you do want Initiative.

You said you want to blast stuff so I recommend
1) You don't use Heritage Feats for it. They are ok for freeing up slots and giving you some damage but they aren't for someone who wants to blast really effectively.
2) Consider Warmage (and probably dismiss it but at least consider it)
3) ..thought I had something else to say here...

1: Sor - spell foc, greater spell foc (magic missle, grease)

I would drop both these Feats.
Take Improved Initiative and probaly a Metamagic instead.

2: Sor -
3: Sor - empower(Enlarge)

Enlarge PERSON I presume. Only worth a spell known if you know you will spend a lot of time with people who want it. Otherwise scrolls/wand will cover this fine. There is something so be said for having the duration but...

4: Sor - (scorching ray), pump cha
5: Sor - (glitterdust, mage armor?)
6: Sor? - energy substitution cold?, (Lightning bolt)

You want Sculpt Spell by this point for Sculpted grease and Glitterdust.
If you have energy Substitution I'd go with Fireball as the ball is generally better than the line and you don't want to be Sculpting just for the sake of it.

Acid is generally the best Energy choice but there is certainly something to be said for Cold if you have a lot of Fire spells (few things are immune to both -elder elementals spring to mind...)

You should concentrate most of your Feats on Metamagic.
9th level Feat should be RAPID METAMAGIC! -there's just no competition (and then you can take Quicken).

Here's my minimal generalist sorceror spell list:
You don't need them all but if you have them you will certainly be fine.

1) MM, Grease,
I recommend Colour Spray &/or Sleep early and change at 4th -or keep CS.

2) Glitterdust, See Invisibility

3) Haste, Dispel Magic
Haste can be dropped later if you find people have Boots or Clerics/Bards are covering it. It is the most powerful first choice however.
Sometimes you just want to spam those Dispels until something goes away and no one else can do that (swap for Greater later)

4) Dimension Door, (Black Tentacles)
Your first chance to escape grapples (assuming you are already grappled and have the associated casting problems). If you get Boots of Big Stepping first then you can probably manage without it but it is great.

5) Mass Fly
Few other spells win encounters so reliably.

7) Limitted Wish!

After that pick stuff you like but I also recommend as much of the following as possible:
One Orb
One Lesser Orb (not so important once you have the full Orb)
Displacement (Blur if not)
(Improved/Greater) Blink
Some sort of Invisibility
Some sort of transport
Some debuffs for your enemies ('Save or ???'; preferably include one for Fort)
At least one more Buff for pre-combat prep when you have time. Heroism is nice here because of it's skill uses but there are others.
Ottiluke's Resilient Sphere. (Ref Save or 'be irrelevant')
Dragon's Breath: very versatile and can be shared with your familiar for a 'cheap twin'

Blasters should of course take Scorching Ray
Alpha_Nerd
03-09-07, 10:43 AM Sorc 6/Elemental Savant 4/Mindbender 1/Fatespinner 4

I think that lets you keep 15th level caster and not have to waste many levels in sorcerer (6th isn't bad)

Feats:

1 Improved Initiative
1 Empower Spell
3 Energy Substitution
6 Sculpt Spell
9 Rapid Metamagic
12 Quicken Spell
15 Something

You could drop Sculpt and Improved Init for Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
UMiskatonic
03-09-07, 10:50 AM I don't think you'll need energy substitution all that badly. If you do, don't take cold. It's a very common immunity for outsiders and undead, and doesn't really damage objects at all. Acid is a stronger choice.

You'll have empowered magic missiles to cut through a lot of things, so I think that will do vs energy immune critters. Take a different feat.

That said, magic missile is NOT a good 1st level spell. You do better damage with a crossbow. Take it later, when it's worth it. With your high CHA, focus on battlefield control or save-or-die spells (color spray, sleep, cause fear, etc)
Rerednaw
03-09-07, 12:15 PM One thing I should point out with all the multi-class builds, if you aren't bothering with a familiar go ahead. Otherwise I'd avoid diluting an already weak companion further.
copper_wyrmling
03-09-07, 01:13 PM I don't think you'll need energy substitution all that badly. If you do, don't take cold. It's a very common immunity for outsiders and undead, and doesn't really damage objects at all. Acid is a stronger choice.

Which outsiders are you looking at? Most demons and devils have cold resistance 10, but aren't immune. Skeletons and nightshades are cold-immune, but most undead aren't.

Remember, sorcerers apply metamagic spontaneously: it's always a choice of your existing spells or the substituted version. Thus, it's better to take an energy type that hurts things that your regular spells often don't - I don't think cold is a bad choice if your known spells are mostly fire-damage.

You'll have empowered magic missiles to cut through a lot of things, so I think that will do vs energy immune critters. Take a different feat.

Speaking from experience, empowered magic missile is really only useful as a finisher at mid-high levels (or when fighting dread wraiths that you can't hurt any other way). 25 damage / shot at L9+ is not really very significant.

My sorcerer doesn't have energy substitution, but it's probably the feat I would take if I had one more feat slot, and I've considered retraining Sculpt to get it. A full rod of energy substitution is right at the very top of her magic item wishlist.
Morgen
03-09-07, 01:43 PM I'd drop your charisma to like 16 or even 15. Almost none of the spells your taking have a save DC that's too important if a monster makes the save.

If you want to have high DCs be a cheesy Grey Elf Wizard with a 20 int.

Metamagic feats are quite lovely for Sorcerers, feel free to load up. Nothing better then a Sculpted, Empowered, Energy Substitution: Electricity, Born of Three Thunders Fireball.

There are a lot of different kinds of sorcerers you can build, but if you want to hurt things look for spells that ignore SR and even perhaps don't allow saves like Orb Spells (Orb of Force for example)
Timlagor
03-10-07, 05:59 PM Be wary of Elemental Savant. Having all your energy spells be of one type can be extremely restricting: definitely not something to do if you intend blasting to be a major part of your life.

Fatespinner 4 is excellent.
I'm not really sure what else to recommend.

Don't worry about Familiar Advancement: it's really not worth being in Sorceror for. You get a Familiar for
- free alertness
- a nice boost of some sort while it's with you
- maybe a useful scout
- the ability to twin your Dragon Breath for free.
- if you're as reckless as me you might actually use a flying familiar to deliver touch spells in combat at lower levels of against very carefully chosen targets. (aslo great when the familiar is invisible and has Silence on them)
- someone to take an AoO from a Wis-drainer so you can move.
Lupo
03-11-07, 12:46 PM Be wary of Elemental Savant. Having all your energy spells be of one type can be extremely restricting: definitely not something to do if you intend blasting to be a major part of your life.

Fatespinner 4 is excellent.
I'm not really sure what else to recommend.

Don't worry about Familiar Advancement: it's really not worth being in Sorceror for. You get a Familiar for
- free alertness
- a nice boost of some sort while it's with you
- maybe a useful scout
- the ability to twin your Dragon Breath for free.
- if you're as reckless as me you might actually use a flying familiar to deliver touch spells in combat at lower levels of against very carefully chosen targets. (aslo great when the familiar is invisible and has Silence on them)
- someone to take an AoO from a Wis-drainer so you can move.

the "searing spell" feat from sandstorm and its cold counterpart from frostburn would help a elemental savant a lot.

but you can't make a sandstorm character right now APART from using the fastplay characters in one of the bright sand modules (actually with "retraining" might be an option).

and the frostburn version is NONC.

going for "force" type spells=> magic missile and orb of force helps against elemental limitation.

having "infernal heritage" and the "infernal howl" might make up for elemental limitation as well.

but overall, "elemental savant" isn't on the top shelf of prestige classes :), more something for role playing a character with an obsession ;).

ciao

martin m.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fghj171983 03-08-07, 04:31 PM	I am thinking about playing a sorcerer for Greyhawk Ruins. This will be my first sorcerer in LG so I would apprechiate any suggestions you all may have. So far I know that we will have a rog and a bard in our group. What prestige classes is really kinda stumping me. A friend of mine has a sorc going mage of the arcane order so i want to do something different than that. I like 4 lvls of fatespinner but besides that I am not sure. Heres my stats and some spells I will probly be taking. Feat wise I was thinking of possibly spell foc and greater spell foc conjuration or evocation. Also is energy substitution needed? I kinda want to be blaster/battlefield controller can anyone suggest any other good blasting spells I am missing? Human str 8 dex 14 maybe 12 dex con 14 int 8 and 10 int if needed for a prestige class wis 8 cha 18 1: Sor - spell foc, greater spell foc (magic missle, grease) 2: Sor - 3: Sor - empower(Enlarge) 4: Sor - (scorching ray), pump cha 5: Sor - (glitterdust, mage armor?) 6: Sor? - energy substitution cold?, (Lightning bolt) 7: Sor? - (Protection from evil?, Web, Fly) 8: Sor? - (Evard’s black tentacles) pump cha 9: Sor? - (False life, Slow, Dimension door) sculpt spell 10: Sor? - (Firebrand?) 11: Sor? - (2nd lvl spell?, 3rd lvl spell?, enervation, teleport?) 12: Sor? - (Disintegrate) pump cha, feat? 13: Sor? - (Dimensional Anchor, Hold monster?, Greater Dispel Magic) 14: Sor? - (Force cage?) 15: Sor? - (5th lvl spell?, true seeing, 7th lvl spell?) Feel free to critique my spells chosen and order of them taken. Would love any help you all can give. :D
Alpha_Nerd 03-08-07, 04:35 PM	You should look at the Draconic Heritage feats, specifically Draconic Breath. It's a solid way to deal no-SR damage to an area, freeing up your spells known. Also, you could drop the CHA down to a 16 and pick up a wisdom of 14 for Arcane Disciple.
fghj171983 03-08-07, 04:56 PM	I may take a look at the heritage feats I hear the infernal ones are pretty good too though I don't have my phb2 on me so I'll look it up later. Not that into arcane disciple. It eats up a feat, skill points and stat points. Just not worth it too me. Thanks for the suggestion though.
Efekjek 03-08-07, 05:02 PM	to me, it looks like you're goin for maximum DC ownage, so i think fatespinner is the way to go. at least that's what i would do if i hadn't gone for mage o' the arcane order
Rerednaw 03-08-07, 05:04 PM	...Feat wise I was thinking of possibly spell foc and greater spell foc conjuration or evocation. Also is energy substitution needed? I kinda want to be blaster/battlefield controller can anyone suggest any other good blasting spells I am missing? ... The spell selection looks fairly solid. More nuking than I would take but then I'm a battlefield control/summoner. I would drop Enlarge. Wands of enlarge are now core. Most fighters I know that want enlarge are now carrying wands or they paid the 25gp each for a scroll or two. Your spell DCs are going to be very high so maybe another save or die spell is in order. I'd also give Ray of Enfeeblement a look. As an alternative to the Heritage nuking, the reserve feats from Complete Mage are worth taking a look at. The downside is that the spell casting requirements put your sorceror a level behind. Another feat to consider is Metamagic School Focus. 3x a day metamagics in your chosen (i.e. specialist OR spell focus) school are at -1. i.e. Sculpt for +0, Extend for +0, Empower for +1, etc. I'd move sculpt spell ahead of energy substitution. You have alternatives to nuking with fire already and having the capability to place glitterdust/grease/web in 4 neat 10x10 cubes can be huge. With an 8 int you are only going to have 2 points per level. That's not my playstyle but if it works for you go ahead, I've seen many builds with 3 dump stats. Another thing to consider, don't forget your free spell swaps. If you are going to take teleport, consider retraining dimension door into something else.
fghj171983 03-08-07, 05:05 PM	to me, it looks like you're goin for maximum DC ownage, so i think fatespinner is the way to go. at least that's what i would do Yea with a high cha, spell foc, greater spell foc, along with fate spinner DC's should be pretty solid. Though thats still only 4 lvls Id prefer something better than Sor 11 Fatespinner 4. :P Still need suggestions!
Alpha_Nerd 03-08-07, 08:17 PM	You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation
bitznarf 03-08-07, 08:19 PM	You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation :D
Evanta 03-08-07, 09:00 PM	I'd put comprehend languages / tongues in somewhere so that your party will be able to understand all the ancient inscriptions whenever needed. Except for me seriously disliking gnomes, shadowcraft mage is solid for increasing ur versatility and overall power.
magebeast 03-08-07, 10:15 PM	If you're not going for any PRc in particular, fatespinner is a fairly solid choice - you're not required to invest to heavily to get into it. One thing to keep in mind is that level 15 as a sorcerer doesn't net you any higher level spells - only another spell of 7th level known and another cast per day. If you've already got four levels of the PrC under your belt before you hit 15, you can always make the choice of what to take at 15. If you find yourself pretty well set in the spells known department, but would like to have one of your save or die spells have a little extra kick, Fatespinner 5 isn't a terrible choice as far as I can see. Not having played to that level, I don't know absolutely, but it seems like a potential trade off ot me.
fghj171983 03-08-07, 11:53 PM	You could be a Gnome and go Shadowcraft Mage. If you get your Illusion DCs really high you could wreck some worlds with Shadow Conjuration/Evocation Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D
bitznarf 03-09-07, 12:00 AM	Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D You might want to consider a level of Mindbender. It seems to fit the flavour you have presented, and doesn't cost you a feat. Some cross class skills, but still.
Evanta 03-09-07, 12:27 AM	Well for one I don't want to be a gnome not really my style hence human. My spell selection is not very illusory inclined either so shadowcraft mage is out. Oh and I would prefer full caster progression all the way through. :) Thanks for the suggestions so far I would love any more you all have. :D I think the only PrC that doesn't sacrifice caster levels, and is appropiate, is fatespinner. Only thing that might seem useful for nuker is holy scourge. For feats though, suggest you drop greater focus, and take empower spell at level 1, then take craft wondrous at level 3. Find a place to slot metamagic school focus in too. Alternatively, you might want to look at taking the heritage feats. Dragon breath, Sorcerer howl looks decent, Celestial Sorcerer Lore + Wings I like a lot, but the pre-reqs for Sorcerer Lore suck.
copper_wyrmling 03-09-07, 01:03 AM	I think the only PrC that doesn't sacrifice caster levels, and is appropiate, is fatespinner. Only thing that might seem useful for nuker is holy scourge. Wild Mage doesn't lose caster levels, but it's NONC and it requires a mostly-pointless feat (and then tempts you to take Practised Spellcaster, eating another feat slot). Ruathar has easy requirements but is NONC and doesn't give much besides skills (although those can make qualifying for other PrCs much easier). Mindbender is nice for a one-level dip, if you can get the skill requirements together, but is NONC.
Rerednaw 03-09-07, 09:57 AM	Wild Mage doesn't lose caster levels, but it's NONC and it requires a mostly-pointless feat (and then tempts you to take Practised Spellcaster, eating another feat slot). Ruathar has easy requirements but is NONC and doesn't give much besides skills (although those can make qualifying for other PrCs much easier). Mindbender is nice for a one-level dip, if you can get the skill requirements together, but is NONC. I consider Wild Mage a 1 level dip mainly for 1) Warmage or 2) Wizard. Both those classes get the extra feats so the 2 feats you lose with Wild Mage don't hurt as much. With a sorceror you don't really have the luxury. But if you are playing an evoker, instead of spending two feats plus a class dip for extra 1-3 caster levels, you could take a Reserve feat instead to get 1 extra caster level with one type (fire, electricity, acid, summoning, etc...). I'm kind of fond of Cloudy Conjuration myself. Sicken plus concealment when you summon is kind of neat.
Timlagor 03-09-07, 10:28 AM	Attributes look good to me. You won't want to rely too heavily on Orbs and Rays with relatively low Dex and no PBS/PS. Given that and a probable general lack of AC you might dump Dex altogether except that you do want Initiative. You said you want to blast stuff so I recommend 1) You don't use Heritage Feats for it. They are ok for freeing up slots and giving you some damage but they aren't for someone who wants to blast really effectively. 2) Consider Warmage (and probably dismiss it but at least consider it) 3) ..thought I had something else to say here... 1: Sor - spell foc, greater spell foc (magic missle, grease) I would drop both these Feats. Take Improved Initiative and probaly a Metamagic instead. 2: Sor - 3: Sor - empower(Enlarge) Enlarge PERSON I presume. Only worth a spell known if you know you will spend a lot of time with people who want it. Otherwise scrolls/wand will cover this fine. There is something so be said for having the duration but... 4: Sor - (scorching ray), pump cha 5: Sor - (glitterdust, mage armor?) 6: Sor? - energy substitution cold?, (Lightning bolt) You want Sculpt Spell by this point for Sculpted grease and Glitterdust. If you have energy Substitution I'd go with Fireball as the ball is generally better than the line and you don't want to be Sculpting just for the sake of it. Acid is generally the best Energy choice but there is certainly something to be said for Cold if you have a lot of Fire spells (few things are immune to both -elder elementals spring to mind...) You should concentrate most of your Feats on Metamagic. 9th level Feat should be RAPID METAMAGIC! -there's just no competition (and then you can take Quicken). Here's my minimal generalist sorceror spell list: You don't need them all but if you have them you will certainly be fine. 1) MM, Grease, I recommend Colour Spray &/or Sleep early and change at 4th -or keep CS. 2) Glitterdust, See Invisibility 3) Haste, Dispel Magic Haste can be dropped later if you find people have Boots or Clerics/Bards are covering it. It is the most powerful first choice however. Sometimes you just want to spam those Dispels until something goes away and no one else can do that (swap for Greater later) 4) Dimension Door, (Black Tentacles) Your first chance to escape grapples (assuming you are already grappled and have the associated casting problems). If you get Boots of Big Stepping first then you can probably manage without it but it is great. 5) Mass Fly Few other spells win encounters so reliably. 7) Limitted Wish! After that pick stuff you like but I also recommend as much of the following as possible: One Orb One Lesser Orb (not so important once you have the full Orb) Displacement (Blur if not) (Improved/Greater) Blink Some sort of Invisibility Some sort of transport Some debuffs for your enemies ('Save or ???'; preferably include one for Fort) At least one more Buff for pre-combat prep when you have time. Heroism is nice here because of it's skill uses but there are others. Ottiluke's Resilient Sphere. (Ref Save or 'be irrelevant') Dragon's Breath: very versatile and can be shared with your familiar for a 'cheap twin' Blasters should of course take Scorching Ray
Alpha_Nerd 03-09-07, 10:43 AM	Sorc 6/Elemental Savant 4/Mindbender 1/Fatespinner 4 I think that lets you keep 15th level caster and not have to waste many levels in sorcerer (6th isn't bad) Feats: 1 Improved Initiative 1 Empower Spell 3 Energy Substitution 6 Sculpt Spell 9 Rapid Metamagic 12 Quicken Spell 15 Something You could drop Sculpt and Improved Init for Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
UMiskatonic 03-09-07, 10:50 AM	I don't think you'll need energy substitution all that badly. If you do, don't take cold. It's a very common immunity for outsiders and undead, and doesn't really damage objects at all. Acid is a stronger choice. You'll have empowered magic missiles to cut through a lot of things, so I think that will do vs energy immune critters. Take a different feat. That said, magic missile is NOT a good 1st level spell. You do better damage with a crossbow. Take it later, when it's worth it. With your high CHA, focus on battlefield control or save-or-die spells (color spray, sleep, cause fear, etc)
Rerednaw 03-09-07, 12:15 PM	One thing I should point out with all the multi-class builds, if you aren't bothering with a familiar go ahead. Otherwise I'd avoid diluting an already weak companion further.
copper_wyrmling 03-09-07, 01:13 PM	I don't think you'll need energy substitution all that badly. If you do, don't take cold. It's a very common immunity for outsiders and undead, and doesn't really damage objects at all. Acid is a stronger choice. Which outsiders are you looking at? Most demons and devils have cold resistance 10, but aren't immune. Skeletons and nightshades are cold-immune, but most undead aren't. Remember, sorcerers apply metamagic spontaneously: it's always a choice of your existing spells or the substituted version. Thus, it's better to take an energy type that hurts things that your regular spells often don't - I don't think cold is a bad choice if your known spells are mostly fire-damage. You'll have empowered magic missiles to cut through a lot of things, so I think that will do vs energy immune critters. Take a different feat. Speaking from experience, empowered magic missile is really only useful as a finisher at mid-high levels (or when fighting dread wraiths that you can't hurt any other way). 25 damage / shot at L9+ is not really very significant. My sorcerer doesn't have energy substitution, but it's probably the feat I would take if I had one more feat slot, and I've considered retraining Sculpt to get it. A full rod of energy substitution is right at the very top of her magic item wishlist.
Morgen 03-09-07, 01:43 PM	I'd drop your charisma to like 16 or even 15. Almost none of the spells your taking have a save DC that's too important if a monster makes the save. If you want to have high DCs be a cheesy Grey Elf Wizard with a 20 int. Metamagic feats are quite lovely for Sorcerers, feel free to load up. Nothing better then a Sculpted, Empowered, Energy Substitution: Electricity, Born of Three Thunders Fireball. There are a lot of different kinds of sorcerers you can build, but if you want to hurt things look for spells that ignore SR and even perhaps don't allow saves like Orb Spells (Orb of Force for example)
Timlagor 03-10-07, 05:59 PM	Be wary of Elemental Savant. Having all your energy spells be of one type can be extremely restricting: definitely not something to do if you intend blasting to be a major part of your life. Fatespinner 4 is excellent. I'm not really sure what else to recommend. Don't worry about Familiar Advancement: it's really not worth being in Sorceror for. You get a Familiar for - free alertness - a nice boost of some sort while it's with you - maybe a useful scout - the ability to twin your Dragon Breath for free. - if you're as reckless as me you might actually use a flying familiar to deliver touch spells in combat at lower levels of against very carefully chosen targets. (aslo great when the familiar is invisible and has Silence on them) - someone to take an AoO from a Wis-drainer so you can move.
Lupo 03-11-07, 12:46 PM	Be wary of Elemental Savant. Having all your energy spells be of one type can be extremely restricting: definitely not something to do if you intend blasting to be a major part of your life. Fatespinner 4 is excellent. I'm not really sure what else to recommend. Don't worry about Familiar Advancement: it's really not worth being in Sorceror for. You get a Familiar for - free alertness - a nice boost of some sort while it's with you - maybe a useful scout - the ability to twin your Dragon Breath for free. - if you're as reckless as me you might actually use a flying familiar to deliver touch spells in combat at lower levels of against very carefully chosen targets. (aslo great when the familiar is invisible and has Silence on them) - someone to take an AoO from a Wis-drainer so you can move. the "searing spell" feat from sandstorm and its cold counterpart from frostburn would help a elemental savant a lot. but you can't make a sandstorm character right now APART from using the fastplay characters in one of the bright sand modules (actually with "retraining" might be an option). and the frostburn version is NONC. going for "force" type spells=> magic missile and orb of force helps against elemental limitation. having "infernal heritage" and the "infernal howl" might make up for elemental limitation as well. but overall, "elemental savant" isn't on the top shelf of prestige classes :), more something for role playing a character with an obsession ;). ciao martin m.