Spells for a Sublime Chord? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spells for a Sublime Chord? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lightblade
03-29-07, 01:02 AM I'm 1 AR away from becoming a Sublime Chord, and am trying to figure out my spell selection. Here are my ideas for the first two levels:

4th:
Dimension Door
Phantasmal Killer
Orb of Force
Next Level: Orb of acid/lightning/sonic? or Trollshape/wolfshape?
(something to cue off a reserve feat...)

5th:
Cone of Cold or Vivitrolic Sphere
Next level: Greater Heroism
(Mainly so i can craft a Vest of Legends)

At first, i thought Cone of Cold was a sure thing, but V. Sphere is long range, does more damage on a failed save (though it is over time) and is a conjuration, so it bypasses SR. The smallish area isn't a problem, as I own a rod of sculpt spell. (Based on the Magic Item Compendium, i'm hoping to get a refund, btw) Also, the acid reserve feat is better than the cold one by far, if I decide to go that route. Drawbacks include the 3 rounds of damage equals 3 chances of acid resistance (including a chance to cast a defensive spell), and less damage on a successful save. What do people think?

As for 12th level, I'm strongly considering a reserve feat. One option would be to take one of the damaging ones (acid and lightning are the frontrunners), with the corresponding orb at 4th level. Another idea i've had was to go with trollshape, and take the polymorph reserve feat to give me 10+ temp hp pretty much every round. Also, the spell might occasionally be useful when a 6 Str gnome is just not enough muscle. Finally, I could take the dim door reserve feat and always be able to move twenty+ feet away without provoking AOOs. Thoughts?
Mommy was an Orc
03-29-07, 01:16 AM Hey, good to see you at the Con...

I'd look strongly at Greater Dispel Magic - with the Song of Arcane Power, that spell tends to rock. Solid Fog/Freezing Fog is a good choice to have available. Freedom of Movement and Mass Suggestion are useful spells, too.

I'm not particularly fond of Phantasmal Killer - those two saves are hard to make stick...
Lomiat
03-29-07, 01:30 AM For Sublime Chord spells, I'd look very closely at the spells which let you benefit from your increased caster level (with the song of power -- or whatever). Skip the save-or-die spells; there will be a tweaked out max-INT Fatespinner around half the time who can do that stuff and who will appreciate if you provide some of the more utilitarian spells.

4th - Orbs are good if you want to do damage, but take something other than Orb of Force as, right away, you'll be able to shoot over the 10 dice mark.

Dimension Door, Evard's Black Tentacles, Freedom of Movement, and Wall of X are all good choices. Enervation isn't bad later on as it will assist some of your other possible options.

5th - Teleport, Dismissal, Wall of Force, Telekinesis and Cone of Cold all make good use of level-dependent variables.

6th - Greater Dispel Magic, Disintegrate, Contingency.
Lightblade
03-29-07, 01:32 AM Hey, good to see you at the Con...

I'd look strongly at Greater Dispel Magic - with the Song of Arcane Power, that spell tends to rock. Solid Fog/Freezing Fog is a good choice to have available. Freedom of Movement and Mass Suggestion are useful spells, too.

I'm not particularly fond of Phantasmal Killer - those two saves are hard to make stick...

I'll take greater dispel once I actually pick up song of arcane power; I'll advance SC casting with FL for a couple levels before i pick that up once again. Freedom of Movement is worth considering; at 15th level I hope to pick up razing strike and rain death on constructs... or something.

The various fogs look good. If I can combine then with listening lorecall i'll be able to do a good amount of damage. It's handy that SC requires i have the right number of ranks for the blindsight magic to occur.

Haven't looked into mass suggestion; in combat it seems kinda hairy and out of combat i can already fascinate and suggest 3 people at moment, even if i assume that on average each person will save against suggestion once. Those numbers will only go up once i have a Vest of Legends.

Phantasmal killer is on my list to deal with rogues, mainly. I suppose I can always chuck orbs at them, but still. It's really more a flavor selection (i'm a gnome) than anything else. My in game "cousin" (not sure of the exact relation) is a shadowcraft mage, and i'd feel like less of a gnome without it. Too bad i couldn't pick up Lyric Thurmaturge at the rebuild; captivating song would have gone really well with it.
Japangirl
03-29-07, 01:53 AM I wouldn't pick up any of the "shape" spells. Because of the way the polymorph errata works, all your equipment melds with you. Your stat items, magic items, weapons, etc all meld so you lose all your bonus spells per day (as per the FAQ, when you lose a stat bumping item all your bonus spells disappear until you rest and regain spell slots). Your spell component pouch melds, making spells with material components uncastable. X-shape spells are a WOTC attempt to fix their broken errata, but it doesn't work.

*no, I'm not bitter at all*
Mommy was an Orc
03-29-07, 10:02 AM Phantasmal killer is on my list to deal with rogues, mainly. I suppose I can always chuck orbs at them, but still. It's really more a flavor selection (i'm a gnome) than anything else. My in game "cousin" (not sure of the exact relation) is a shadowcraft mage, and i'd feel like less of a gnome without it. Too bad i couldn't pick up Lyric Thurmaturge at the rebuild; captivating song would have gone really well with it.

In general, if you can Phantasmal Killer them, there's much worse things you can do to them. Hold Monster as an example, especially against Winged creatures. Or if you're worried about doing something illusionary, why not Shadow Conjuration instead?
LachlarlanIII
03-29-07, 10:06 AM I always liked Defenestrating Sphere.

Especially when you cast it toward a narrow bridge swarming with enemies and only two directions that don't involve falling to one's death. :D
Mommy was an Orc
03-29-07, 10:09 AM I wouldn't pick up any of the "shape" spells. Because of the way the polymorph errata works, all your equipment melds with you. Your stat items, magic items, weapons, etc all meld so you lose all your bonus spells per day (as per the FAQ, when you lose a stat bumping item all your bonus spells disappear until you rest and regain spell slots). Your spell component pouch melds, making spells with material components uncastable. X-shape spells are a WOTC attempt to fix their broken errata, but it doesn't work.

*no, I'm not bitter at all*

He's not taking it for the spell, he's taking it for the Reserve feat. Minor Shapeshift gives you your HD in temporary hit points as a swift action among other things...
Timlagor
03-29-07, 11:00 AM Mass Fly would be my first choice at 5th level.
One Orb should be enough and I wouldn't take the damaging Reserve Feats.

Minor Shapeshift probably isn't worth a Feat and a Spell.
Lightblade
03-29-07, 12:26 PM Just to be clear, here are the next few levels (brd7/rog2/drd1 is what i have now)
Sublime Chord
Fochlycan Lyrist
Fochlycan Lyrist
Sublime Chord
Fochlycan Lyrist

I'm taking them in that order for two reasons:
1)Access to 2nd level druid spells. Listening Lorecall will give me blindsense and blindsight, which as I now realize will make Solid Fog / Freezing Fog quite nice.
Also, all the ability buffs come in then, and I'd like to craft gloves of dex / amulet of con / belt of strength (mostly to keep me from being encumbered)
2) Bardsong advancement. First level of FL gives me inspire courage +2. Second level of FL gives me Inspire Greatness. With a Vest of Legends on, I'll have Inspire Courage +3, and with the right instrument, I can inspire 3 people at once.

So the high-caster-level reasoning doesn't apply just yet, and when it does i'll be so close to the things that cap out at 15th level that's not an issue. Of course, i'll be set for all the things that cap out at 20, such as Greater Dispel.

Mommy: My character is from Bissel, so shadow magic is illegal, and Evard's Black Tentacles is really, really, really not something to throw around, for obvious roleplay reasons. If Phantasmal Killer really is that suboptimal for what i'm doing, then i guess i'll figure something else out.

As for a reserve feat, is there any consensus on which ones are worthwhile?
Mommy was an Orc
03-29-07, 12:50 PM Mommy: My character is from Bissel, so shadow magic is illegal, and Evard's Black Tentacles is really, really, really not something to throw around, for obvious roleplay reasons. If Phantasmal Killer really is that suboptimal for what i'm doing, then i guess i'll figure something else out.

As for a reserve feat, is there any consensus on which ones are worthwhile?

The reserve feats are all kind of lousy. In general, you're simply not going to need to do a subpar action every round all day long in LG.

I didn't actually mention Evard's for that reason and I understand Shadow Magic is illegal, but isn't your 'cousin' a Shadowcraft Mage? The PrC itself should be illegal in Bissel by definition...
Lightblade
03-29-07, 12:58 PM I didn't actually mention Evard's for that reason and I understand Shadow Magic is illegal, but isn't your 'cousin' a Shadowcraft Mage? The PrC itself should be illegal in Bissel by definition...

Heh, yeah, funny you should mention. He was a shadowcraft mage before shadow magic became illegal. He's *very* unhappy about it, and has sorta laid low recently, and let other members of clan Von Foodle handle some of the action.
Nutation
03-29-07, 02:24 PM As for 12th level, I'm strongly considering a reserve feat. One option would be to take one of the damaging ones ..., with the corresponding orb at 4th level. Another idea i've had was to go with trollshape, and take the polymorph reserve feat to give me 10+ temp hp pretty much every round. ... Finally, I could take the dim door reserve feat and always be able to move twenty+ feet away without provoking AOOs. Thoughts?

The dim door reserve feat is Closed. I like the reserve feats that don't cost a standard action. For example, if you learn Orb/Wall of Force, you can take the swift action Blade of Force feat.
mlund
03-29-07, 02:42 PM I recommend:

Level 4:
Orb of Acid
Dimension Door
Enlarge Personal, Mass / Evard's Black Tentacles / Enervation / Greater Invisibility (depending on what role you need to fill)

Level 5:
Greater Dispel Magic

Orb of Acid is probably the most solid orb you can get in the long-run, especially considering Song of Arcane Power. Even Fiends of all stripes only have ER against Acid, rather than outright immunity. The Save Effect is top-notch, and Acid attacks have a nifty perk against Hardness as well.

- Marty Lund
Lightblade
03-29-07, 02:57 PM Ok, so far here are my ideas for spells through retirement.
I believe I end up knowing 4/3/2/1 for levels 4-7.

4th:
Orb of Acid (maybe cold instead?)
Dim Door
Solid Fog
Freedom of Movement

5th:
Cone of Cold (or Vitriolic Sphere, if i don't have an acid orb)
Greater Heroism (changed out at 14th level, per the class)
Greater Dispel Magic
Wall of Force

6th:
Otto's Irrisistable Dance
Chain Lightning

7th:
Limited Wish

Question on Limited Wish: Will it let me cast all those annoying spells that are 7 for Wizards but 5 for clerics? Plane shift is the one i really care about, here.

Edit: Whoops, freezing fog is a 6th level spell. In that case, i'll probably stick with Solid Fog, as Otto's and Chain Lightning seem like better choices.
evilaustintom
03-29-07, 10:44 PM I disagree. While there are usually more useful things you can do in combat (since the actual spell the feat is benefiting from is better than the feat itself), there are some uses to this family of feats.

One of them lets you see in the darkness - any darkness - if only for a round.

Fiery burst may only be 30' range, but it is indirect (so you could stay hidden, or being a supernatural power, pull off the effect in a crowd and no one knows you did it).

Acid Splatter basically can turn a wizard into a minor warlock...and for an unseen seer, you can actually do some reasonable damage (also works well with the sonic attack feat).

These feats are also good for PCs who don't have a lot of spell resources to burn. For example, I've got a cleric healer build I'm working on with a reserve feat in mind. With Heighten spell (so I can raise the particular spell level), I should always have an attack spell handy (and I can keep the rest of my spell slots for buffing and healing). While it is not a power spell I'll be throwing, at least I'm doing something in the combat other than 'aid another' or providing a flank.

I know LG has a tendency to the '3 combats a mod' structure, and burning resources is usually not a big deal. However, it can always be useful to NOT burn resources - and these feats are a way to do that while still making your PC be more than just a speed bump to bad guys.

Plus, I love their flavor...

"You think Grengor the Mighty needs to cast spells to bring you to your knees?! <CRACK of lighting!> That is what Grengor the Mighty thinks of you and your feeble goblin companions. Shall I show you a sign of my might again?..."

Or perhaps your snow elf would like to throw a cold supernatural attack whenever he wants. With these, he can.

As I say, there are more 'heavy-hitting' feats you can take...but there is certainly a place in LG for reserve feats.

Tom Thowe
Lightblade
03-30-07, 04:31 PM In general, if you can Phantasmal Killer them, there's much worse things you can do to them. Hold Monster as an example, especially against Winged creatures.

Hmmm, hold monster. That gives me an idea. It's kind of ridiculous, but since i've concluded that none ot the reserve feats are that great, here's my plan:

11th level: pick up orb of cold, dim door, solid fog, and vitrolic sphere, and have fun with those. (I'm leaning for vitrolic because it shapes very well, and the orb of cold will means i'd rather have something with some range on it)

12th: grab hold monster and Craft Arms and Armor.
Craft a sudden stunning dagger (found a sudden stunning heavy mace at a core special), and go to town with it and Whirling Blade.
Timlagor
04-03-07, 03:52 PM Shadow Magic is illegal and you're taking Phantasmal Killer? .. are the NPCs really going to be happy about that?
Lightblade
04-03-07, 04:54 PM Eh, more happy than they'd be if i was casting actual shadow magic, and plenty more happy than if I threw down an Evard's. Besides, only the recipient sees the killer...

At any rate, i think the boards have convinced me to let go of PK in favor of Solid Fog and Hold Person. That's partly due to the bad idea of picking up Craft Arms and Armor so I can make Daggers of Sudden Stunning to lob at enemies via Whirling Blade, and possibly make melee attacks from time to time.

Solid fog + listening lorecall also seems like a fun way to get that extra d6 of sneak on Orbs of Cold that I throw.
frupton
04-04-07, 03:05 AM A couple of options I'm fond of which I haven't seen discussed:

Cure Critical Wounds (4) and Mass CLW (5), to provide more party healing. You may not want both of these, but consider picking up at least one. These also benefit from your SC caster level boost. Note that since you cast spontaneously, you have the flexibility to use your level 4/5 spells for either offense or for party healing, depending on the circumstances.

Harmonize, Greater (4). Lets you double your party-buffing speed at the start of combats, since you can do bardic music (Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness) as move actions while also casting buffing spells (Haste, etc.)

Shout, Greater (6). Foes are deafened 2d6 rounds even if they make their save. Nasty for enemy spellcasters. Few foes have resistance to sonic damage.

I agree with those who have suggested Greater Dispel and Irresistable Dance. Greater Dispel is particularly effective once you've taken SC level 2 and can get the +4 caster level boost.
UMiskatonic
04-04-07, 11:11 AM I'm not fond of cone of cold, because I've found most of my fellow players are unused to cone-shapes.

I've seen perfectly good cone spells ruined by generous and well-intended tanks who step in front of the wizard to protect her.

I think orb of acid is really the way to go. And not cold either, EVERYONE's got cold resistance, and you can't really affect objects at all.

I'd skip the reserve feats. Considering that this would be about 1/5 of your total feats, the pay-off isn't worth it. If you want more staying power, take Craft wand or Scribe Scroll, and make yourself something to do on round #127.

I'll throw Heroes' feast in as a 6th level contender. Yes, every cleric in the world can cast it. But, you're saving the cleric a 6th level spell, so that's one more Empowered Flame Strike/Bolt of Glory/Fire Seeds available.
Timlagor
04-04-07, 12:31 PM ..and there may not be a Cleric

I still think you'll regret not having Mass Fly though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lightblade 03-29-07, 01:02 AM	I'm 1 AR away from becoming a Sublime Chord, and am trying to figure out my spell selection. Here are my ideas for the first two levels: 4th: Dimension Door Phantasmal Killer Orb of Force Next Level: Orb of acid/lightning/sonic? or Trollshape/wolfshape? (something to cue off a reserve feat...) 5th: Cone of Cold or Vivitrolic Sphere Next level: Greater Heroism (Mainly so i can craft a Vest of Legends) At first, i thought Cone of Cold was a sure thing, but V. Sphere is long range, does more damage on a failed save (though it is over time) and is a conjuration, so it bypasses SR. The smallish area isn't a problem, as I own a rod of sculpt spell. (Based on the Magic Item Compendium, i'm hoping to get a refund, btw) Also, the acid reserve feat is better than the cold one by far, if I decide to go that route. Drawbacks include the 3 rounds of damage equals 3 chances of acid resistance (including a chance to cast a defensive spell), and less damage on a successful save. What do people think? As for 12th level, I'm strongly considering a reserve feat. One option would be to take one of the damaging ones (acid and lightning are the frontrunners), with the corresponding orb at 4th level. Another idea i've had was to go with trollshape, and take the polymorph reserve feat to give me 10+ temp hp pretty much every round. Also, the spell might occasionally be useful when a 6 Str gnome is just not enough muscle. Finally, I could take the dim door reserve feat and always be able to move twenty+ feet away without provoking AOOs. Thoughts?
Mommy was an Orc 03-29-07, 01:16 AM	Hey, good to see you at the Con... I'd look strongly at Greater Dispel Magic - with the Song of Arcane Power, that spell tends to rock. Solid Fog/Freezing Fog is a good choice to have available. Freedom of Movement and Mass Suggestion are useful spells, too. I'm not particularly fond of Phantasmal Killer - those two saves are hard to make stick...
Lomiat 03-29-07, 01:30 AM	For Sublime Chord spells, I'd look very closely at the spells which let you benefit from your increased caster level (with the song of power -- or whatever). Skip the save-or-die spells; there will be a tweaked out max-INT Fatespinner around half the time who can do that stuff and who will appreciate if you provide some of the more utilitarian spells. 4th - Orbs are good if you want to do damage, but take something other than Orb of Force as, right away, you'll be able to shoot over the 10 dice mark. Dimension Door, Evard's Black Tentacles, Freedom of Movement, and Wall of X are all good choices. Enervation isn't bad later on as it will assist some of your other possible options. 5th - Teleport, Dismissal, Wall of Force, Telekinesis and Cone of Cold all make good use of level-dependent variables. 6th - Greater Dispel Magic, Disintegrate, Contingency.
Lightblade 03-29-07, 01:32 AM	Hey, good to see you at the Con... I'd look strongly at Greater Dispel Magic - with the Song of Arcane Power, that spell tends to rock. Solid Fog/Freezing Fog is a good choice to have available. Freedom of Movement and Mass Suggestion are useful spells, too. I'm not particularly fond of Phantasmal Killer - those two saves are hard to make stick... I'll take greater dispel once I actually pick up song of arcane power; I'll advance SC casting with FL for a couple levels before i pick that up once again. Freedom of Movement is worth considering; at 15th level I hope to pick up razing strike and rain death on constructs... or something. The various fogs look good. If I can combine then with listening lorecall i'll be able to do a good amount of damage. It's handy that SC requires i have the right number of ranks for the blindsight magic to occur. Haven't looked into mass suggestion; in combat it seems kinda hairy and out of combat i can already fascinate and suggest 3 people at moment, even if i assume that on average each person will save against suggestion once. Those numbers will only go up once i have a Vest of Legends. Phantasmal killer is on my list to deal with rogues, mainly. I suppose I can always chuck orbs at them, but still. It's really more a flavor selection (i'm a gnome) than anything else. My in game "cousin" (not sure of the exact relation) is a shadowcraft mage, and i'd feel like less of a gnome without it. Too bad i couldn't pick up Lyric Thurmaturge at the rebuild; captivating song would have gone really well with it.
Japangirl 03-29-07, 01:53 AM	I wouldn't pick up any of the "shape" spells. Because of the way the polymorph errata works, all your equipment melds with you. Your stat items, magic items, weapons, etc all meld so you lose all your bonus spells per day (as per the FAQ, when you lose a stat bumping item all your bonus spells disappear until you rest and regain spell slots). Your spell component pouch melds, making spells with material components uncastable. X-shape spells are a WOTC attempt to fix their broken errata, but it doesn't work. no, I'm not bitter at all
Mommy was an Orc 03-29-07, 10:02 AM	Phantasmal killer is on my list to deal with rogues, mainly. I suppose I can always chuck orbs at them, but still. It's really more a flavor selection (i'm a gnome) than anything else. My in game "cousin" (not sure of the exact relation) is a shadowcraft mage, and i'd feel like less of a gnome without it. Too bad i couldn't pick up Lyric Thurmaturge at the rebuild; captivating song would have gone really well with it. In general, if you can Phantasmal Killer them, there's much worse things you can do to them. Hold Monster as an example, especially against Winged creatures. Or if you're worried about doing something illusionary, why not Shadow Conjuration instead?
LachlarlanIII 03-29-07, 10:06 AM	I always liked Defenestrating Sphere. Especially when you cast it toward a narrow bridge swarming with enemies and only two directions that don't involve falling to one's death. :D
Mommy was an Orc 03-29-07, 10:09 AM	I wouldn't pick up any of the "shape" spells. Because of the way the polymorph errata works, all your equipment melds with you. Your stat items, magic items, weapons, etc all meld so you lose all your bonus spells per day (as per the FAQ, when you lose a stat bumping item all your bonus spells disappear until you rest and regain spell slots). Your spell component pouch melds, making spells with material components uncastable. X-shape spells are a WOTC attempt to fix their broken errata, but it doesn't work. no, I'm not bitter at all He's not taking it for the spell, he's taking it for the Reserve feat. Minor Shapeshift gives you your HD in temporary hit points as a swift action among other things...
Timlagor 03-29-07, 11:00 AM	Mass Fly would be my first choice at 5th level. One Orb should be enough and I wouldn't take the damaging Reserve Feats. Minor Shapeshift probably isn't worth a Feat and a Spell.
Lightblade 03-29-07, 12:26 PM	Just to be clear, here are the next few levels (brd7/rog2/drd1 is what i have now) Sublime Chord Fochlycan Lyrist Fochlycan Lyrist Sublime Chord Fochlycan Lyrist I'm taking them in that order for two reasons: 1)Access to 2nd level druid spells. Listening Lorecall will give me blindsense and blindsight, which as I now realize will make Solid Fog / Freezing Fog quite nice. Also, all the ability buffs come in then, and I'd like to craft gloves of dex / amulet of con / belt of strength (mostly to keep me from being encumbered) 2) Bardsong advancement. First level of FL gives me inspire courage +2. Second level of FL gives me Inspire Greatness. With a Vest of Legends on, I'll have Inspire Courage +3, and with the right instrument, I can inspire 3 people at once. So the high-caster-level reasoning doesn't apply just yet, and when it does i'll be so close to the things that cap out at 15th level that's not an issue. Of course, i'll be set for all the things that cap out at 20, such as Greater Dispel. Mommy: My character is from Bissel, so shadow magic is illegal, and Evard's Black Tentacles is really, really, really not something to throw around, for obvious roleplay reasons. If Phantasmal Killer really is that suboptimal for what i'm doing, then i guess i'll figure something else out. As for a reserve feat, is there any consensus on which ones are worthwhile?
Mommy was an Orc 03-29-07, 12:50 PM	Mommy: My character is from Bissel, so shadow magic is illegal, and Evard's Black Tentacles is really, really, really not something to throw around, for obvious roleplay reasons. If Phantasmal Killer really is that suboptimal for what i'm doing, then i guess i'll figure something else out. As for a reserve feat, is there any consensus on which ones are worthwhile? The reserve feats are all kind of lousy. In general, you're simply not going to need to do a subpar action every round all day long in LG. I didn't actually mention Evard's for that reason and I understand Shadow Magic is illegal, but isn't your 'cousin' a Shadowcraft Mage? The PrC itself should be illegal in Bissel by definition...
Lightblade 03-29-07, 12:58 PM	I didn't actually mention Evard's for that reason and I understand Shadow Magic is illegal, but isn't your 'cousin' a Shadowcraft Mage? The PrC itself should be illegal in Bissel by definition... Heh, yeah, funny you should mention. He was a shadowcraft mage before shadow magic became illegal. He's very unhappy about it, and has sorta laid low recently, and let other members of clan Von Foodle handle some of the action.
Nutation 03-29-07, 02:24 PM	As for 12th level, I'm strongly considering a reserve feat. One option would be to take one of the damaging ones ..., with the corresponding orb at 4th level. Another idea i've had was to go with trollshape, and take the polymorph reserve feat to give me 10+ temp hp pretty much every round. ... Finally, I could take the dim door reserve feat and always be able to move twenty+ feet away without provoking AOOs. Thoughts? The dim door reserve feat is Closed. I like the reserve feats that don't cost a standard action. For example, if you learn Orb/Wall of Force, you can take the swift action Blade of Force feat.
mlund 03-29-07, 02:42 PM	I recommend: Level 4: Orb of Acid Dimension Door Enlarge Personal, Mass / Evard's Black Tentacles / Enervation / Greater Invisibility (depending on what role you need to fill) Level 5: Greater Dispel Magic Orb of Acid is probably the most solid orb you can get in the long-run, especially considering Song of Arcane Power. Even Fiends of all stripes only have ER against Acid, rather than outright immunity. The Save Effect is top-notch, and Acid attacks have a nifty perk against Hardness as well. - Marty Lund
Lightblade 03-29-07, 02:57 PM	Ok, so far here are my ideas for spells through retirement. I believe I end up knowing 4/3/2/1 for levels 4-7. 4th: Orb of Acid (maybe cold instead?) Dim Door Solid Fog Freedom of Movement 5th: Cone of Cold (or Vitriolic Sphere, if i don't have an acid orb) Greater Heroism (changed out at 14th level, per the class) Greater Dispel Magic Wall of Force 6th: Otto's Irrisistable Dance Chain Lightning 7th: Limited Wish Question on Limited Wish: Will it let me cast all those annoying spells that are 7 for Wizards but 5 for clerics? Plane shift is the one i really care about, here. Edit: Whoops, freezing fog is a 6th level spell. In that case, i'll probably stick with Solid Fog, as Otto's and Chain Lightning seem like better choices.
evilaustintom 03-29-07, 10:44 PM	I disagree. While there are usually more useful things you can do in combat (since the actual spell the feat is benefiting from is better than the feat itself), there are some uses to this family of feats. One of them lets you see in the darkness - any darkness - if only for a round. Fiery burst may only be 30' range, but it is indirect (so you could stay hidden, or being a supernatural power, pull off the effect in a crowd and no one knows you did it). Acid Splatter basically can turn a wizard into a minor warlock...and for an unseen seer, you can actually do some reasonable damage (also works well with the sonic attack feat). These feats are also good for PCs who don't have a lot of spell resources to burn. For example, I've got a cleric healer build I'm working on with a reserve feat in mind. With Heighten spell (so I can raise the particular spell level), I should always have an attack spell handy (and I can keep the rest of my spell slots for buffing and healing). While it is not a power spell I'll be throwing, at least I'm doing something in the combat other than 'aid another' or providing a flank. I know LG has a tendency to the '3 combats a mod' structure, and burning resources is usually not a big deal. However, it can always be useful to NOT burn resources - and these feats are a way to do that while still making your PC be more than just a speed bump to bad guys. Plus, I love their flavor... "You think Grengor the Mighty needs to cast spells to bring you to your knees?! <CRACK of lighting!> That is what Grengor the Mighty thinks of you and your feeble goblin companions. Shall I show you a sign of my might again?..." Or perhaps your snow elf would like to throw a cold supernatural attack whenever he wants. With these, he can. As I say, there are more 'heavy-hitting' feats you can take...but there is certainly a place in LG for reserve feats. Tom Thowe
Lightblade 03-30-07, 04:31 PM	In general, if you can Phantasmal Killer them, there's much worse things you can do to them. Hold Monster as an example, especially against Winged creatures. Hmmm, hold monster. That gives me an idea. It's kind of ridiculous, but since i've concluded that none ot the reserve feats are that great, here's my plan: 11th level: pick up orb of cold, dim door, solid fog, and vitrolic sphere, and have fun with those. (I'm leaning for vitrolic because it shapes very well, and the orb of cold will means i'd rather have something with some range on it) 12th: grab hold monster and Craft Arms and Armor. Craft a sudden stunning dagger (found a sudden stunning heavy mace at a core special), and go to town with it and Whirling Blade.
Timlagor 04-03-07, 03:52 PM	Shadow Magic is illegal and you're taking Phantasmal Killer? .. are the NPCs really going to be happy about that?
Lightblade 04-03-07, 04:54 PM	Eh, more happy than they'd be if i was casting actual shadow magic, and plenty more happy than if I threw down an Evard's. Besides, only the recipient sees the killer... At any rate, i think the boards have convinced me to let go of PK in favor of Solid Fog and Hold Person. That's partly due to the bad idea of picking up Craft Arms and Armor so I can make Daggers of Sudden Stunning to lob at enemies via Whirling Blade, and possibly make melee attacks from time to time. Solid fog + listening lorecall also seems like a fun way to get that extra d6 of sneak on Orbs of Cold that I throw.
frupton 04-04-07, 03:05 AM	A couple of options I'm fond of which I haven't seen discussed: Cure Critical Wounds (4) and Mass CLW (5), to provide more party healing. You may not want both of these, but consider picking up at least one. These also benefit from your SC caster level boost. Note that since you cast spontaneously, you have the flexibility to use your level 4/5 spells for either offense or for party healing, depending on the circumstances. Harmonize, Greater (4). Lets you double your party-buffing speed at the start of combats, since you can do bardic music (Inspire Courage, Inspire Greatness) as move actions while also casting buffing spells (Haste, etc.) Shout, Greater (6). Foes are deafened 2d6 rounds even if they make their save. Nasty for enemy spellcasters. Few foes have resistance to sonic damage. I agree with those who have suggested Greater Dispel and Irresistable Dance. Greater Dispel is particularly effective once you've taken SC level 2 and can get the +4 caster level boost.
UMiskatonic 04-04-07, 11:11 AM	I'm not fond of cone of cold, because I've found most of my fellow players are unused to cone-shapes. I've seen perfectly good cone spells ruined by generous and well-intended tanks who step in front of the wizard to protect her. I think orb of acid is really the way to go. And not cold either, EVERYONE's got cold resistance, and you can't really affect objects at all. I'd skip the reserve feats. Considering that this would be about 1/5 of your total feats, the pay-off isn't worth it. If you want more staying power, take Craft wand or Scribe Scroll, and make yourself something to do on round #127. I'll throw Heroes' feast in as a 6th level contender. Yes, every cleric in the world can cast it. But, you're saving the cleric a 6th level spell, so that's one more Empowered Flame Strike/Bolt of Glory/Fire Seeds available.
Timlagor 04-04-07, 12:31 PM	..and there may not be a Cleric I still think you'll regret not having Mass Fly though.