Spring Attack Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Spring Attack Build [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 11:19 AM This build uses parts of the PHB, PHB2, and Complete Scoundrel.

Human

Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8

1: Rogue 1 - Expeditious Dodge, Mobility
2: Scout 1
3: Scout 2 - Combat Expertise
4: Rogue 2 - Str 16
5: Rogue 3
6: Scout 3 - Spring Attack
7: Rogue 4
8: Shadowdancer 1 - Str 17
9: Rogue 5 - Swift Ambusher
10: Rogue 6
11: Rogue 7
12: Rogue 8 - Improved Skirmish, Str 18
13: Rogue 9
14: Rogue 10
15: Rogue 11 - Telling Blow

This build requires one to be mobile.

With Swift Ambusher, the PC can do 4d6 skirmish+6d6 sneak attack+weapon damage on a Spring Attack+Flank combination. If the PC moves at least 20 feet before attacking he gains an additional 2d6 skirmish damage via Improved Skirmish.
myshkingfh
02-14-07, 01:05 PM What about a shadowdancer level in there somewhere? Spring Attack seems far better when you're hidden all the time. plus you get to sneak attack more often.
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 01:08 PM What about a shadowdancer level in there somewhere? Spring Attack seems far better when you're hidden all the time. plus you get to sneak attack more often.

Unfortunately, any loss of BAB means the build can't take Bounding Assault at 15th.
Jay_Ibero_911
02-14-07, 01:23 PM Unfortunately, any loss of BAB means the build can't take Bounding Assault at 15th.

Hmm, one extra attack for one level...or getting sneak attack on almost all your attacks for many levels...I'd say shadowdancer would be well worth it...
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 02:08 PM Edited build above.

Replaced Scout 4 with Shadowdancer 1. Replaced 4 levels of Fighter with 4 more levels of Rogue.

Replaced EWP(Dire Pick) with Combat Expertise, and Bounding Assault with Telling Blow.

I'm not sure how effective Hide-in-Plain-Sight is going to be in a build designed to be mobile. I'm also not too sure what Telling Blow does but it sounds good (going on the description on that one).
myshkingfh
02-14-07, 02:33 PM Hiding occurs during a move, so on a spring attack you hide at both ends.
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 02:35 PM Hiding occurs during a move, so on a spring attack you hide at both ends.

Yes, but hiding also halves movement unless I want to take a large penalty.
Jay_Ibero_911
02-14-07, 02:52 PM if you take Scout 4 at 9th level, you can take Swift Ambusher as your scout bonus feat, freeing up your 9th level feat for something else...Also, you need COMBAT REFLEXES, not combat expertise to qualify for Shadwodancer.
myshkingfh
02-14-07, 02:53 PM But you'll have huge bonuses with all of those rogue levels, and in addition, you'll surely have something that increases your speed. Since you're only getting one a/r anyway, making shorter moves shouldn't be that big of a deal and the penalty for moving normal speed isn't that bad. I think that with a character like this, having a high speed is going to be key. For example, the Antlered Helm of Command I'm saving up for with my character (8th level will be shadowdancer 1) gives +30(!) to movement. So moving at half speed will still be 25.

I also wonder, with this character, you'll be moving all the time and hiding all the time, and consequently, you'll be the one determining the battle distances most often. Given that, how about a reach weapon? That way you can avoid some AOOs and from time to time you won't have to move as far to still get your sneak and skirmish bonuses. And (I've never used one) don't a lot of them give you damage bonuses on a charge?
Jay_Ibero_911
02-14-07, 02:56 PM But you'll have huge bonuses with all of those rogue levels, and in addition, you'll surely have something that increases your speed. Since you're only getting one a/r anyway, making shorter moves shouldn't be that big of a deal and the penalty for moving normal speed isn't that bad. I think that with a character like this, having a high speed is going to be key. For example, the Antlered Helm of Command I'm saving up for with my character (8th level will be shadowdancer 1) gives +30(!) to movement. So moving at half speed will still be 25.

I also wonder, with this character, you'll be moving all the time and hiding all the time, and consequently, you'll be the one determining the battle distances most often. Given that, how about a reach weapon? That way you can avoid some AOOs and from time to time you won't have to move as far to still get your sneak and skirmish bonuses. And (I've never used one) don't a lot of them give you damage bonuses on a charge?

Keep in mind he needs to move at least 20 feat before he attacks to benefit from IMproved Skirmish...
myshkingfh
02-14-07, 03:41 PM Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :)
clannagh
02-14-07, 05:38 PM Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :)

actually spring attack against vines can be a good thing
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 05:45 PM Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :)

You leave my commoner 15 build out of this! :)
martin_knoff
02-14-07, 05:57 PM Yes, but hiding also halves movement unless I want to take a large penalty.

You can move up to 5 feet less than your normal movement (but more than half) with only a -5 to your hide check. To this end, a level of barbarian can be very helpfull. My Dervish/Shadowdancer was very aware of this. :)

Martin.
LachlarlanIII
02-14-07, 06:05 PM In order to maximize skirmish/sneak attack I can only lose one level.

That level was taken by Shadowdancer.

I can still move 40 feet in a round even while at half movement though. Scouts get fast movement too. :)
Jay_Ibero_911
02-15-07, 01:32 AM In order to maximize skirmish/sneak attack I can only lose one level.

That level was taken by Shadowdancer.

I can still move 40 feet in a round even while at half movement though. Scouts get fast movement too. :)

Well, with the build you got there...Your base speed is 40...so at half move you'd only move 20ft with a move action or spring attack movement...
LachlarlanIII
02-15-07, 10:08 AM Well, with the build you got there...Your base speed is 40...so at half move you'd only move 20ft with a move action or spring attack movement...

Oh-ho! But I didn't say while spring attacking :embarrass

20 ft while spring attacking + 20 ft from my other move action = 40 ft. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 11:19 AM	This build uses parts of the PHB, PHB2, and Complete Scoundrel. Human Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8 1: Rogue 1 - Expeditious Dodge, Mobility 2: Scout 1 3: Scout 2 - Combat Expertise 4: Rogue 2 - Str 16 5: Rogue 3 6: Scout 3 - Spring Attack 7: Rogue 4 8: Shadowdancer 1 - Str 17 9: Rogue 5 - Swift Ambusher 10: Rogue 6 11: Rogue 7 12: Rogue 8 - Improved Skirmish, Str 18 13: Rogue 9 14: Rogue 10 15: Rogue 11 - Telling Blow This build requires one to be mobile. With Swift Ambusher, the PC can do 4d6 skirmish+6d6 sneak attack+weapon damage on a Spring Attack+Flank combination. If the PC moves at least 20 feet before attacking he gains an additional 2d6 skirmish damage via Improved Skirmish.
myshkingfh 02-14-07, 01:05 PM	What about a shadowdancer level in there somewhere? Spring Attack seems far better when you're hidden all the time. plus you get to sneak attack more often.
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 01:08 PM	What about a shadowdancer level in there somewhere? Spring Attack seems far better when you're hidden all the time. plus you get to sneak attack more often. Unfortunately, any loss of BAB means the build can't take Bounding Assault at 15th.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-14-07, 01:23 PM	Unfortunately, any loss of BAB means the build can't take Bounding Assault at 15th. Hmm, one extra attack for one level...or getting sneak attack on almost all your attacks for many levels...I'd say shadowdancer would be well worth it...
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 02:08 PM	Edited build above. Replaced Scout 4 with Shadowdancer 1. Replaced 4 levels of Fighter with 4 more levels of Rogue. Replaced EWP(Dire Pick) with Combat Expertise, and Bounding Assault with Telling Blow. I'm not sure how effective Hide-in-Plain-Sight is going to be in a build designed to be mobile. I'm also not too sure what Telling Blow does but it sounds good (going on the description on that one).
myshkingfh 02-14-07, 02:33 PM	Hiding occurs during a move, so on a spring attack you hide at both ends.
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 02:35 PM	Hiding occurs during a move, so on a spring attack you hide at both ends. Yes, but hiding also halves movement unless I want to take a large penalty.
Jay_Ibero_911 02-14-07, 02:52 PM	if you take Scout 4 at 9th level, you can take Swift Ambusher as your scout bonus feat, freeing up your 9th level feat for something else...Also, you need COMBAT REFLEXES, not combat expertise to qualify for Shadwodancer.
myshkingfh 02-14-07, 02:53 PM	But you'll have huge bonuses with all of those rogue levels, and in addition, you'll surely have something that increases your speed. Since you're only getting one a/r anyway, making shorter moves shouldn't be that big of a deal and the penalty for moving normal speed isn't that bad. I think that with a character like this, having a high speed is going to be key. For example, the Antlered Helm of Command I'm saving up for with my character (8th level will be shadowdancer 1) gives +30(!) to movement. So moving at half speed will still be 25. I also wonder, with this character, you'll be moving all the time and hiding all the time, and consequently, you'll be the one determining the battle distances most often. Given that, how about a reach weapon? That way you can avoid some AOOs and from time to time you won't have to move as far to still get your sneak and skirmish bonuses. And (I've never used one) don't a lot of them give you damage bonuses on a charge?
Jay_Ibero_911 02-14-07, 02:56 PM	But you'll have huge bonuses with all of those rogue levels, and in addition, you'll surely have something that increases your speed. Since you're only getting one a/r anyway, making shorter moves shouldn't be that big of a deal and the penalty for moving normal speed isn't that bad. I think that with a character like this, having a high speed is going to be key. For example, the Antlered Helm of Command I'm saving up for with my character (8th level will be shadowdancer 1) gives +30(!) to movement. So moving at half speed will still be 25. I also wonder, with this character, you'll be moving all the time and hiding all the time, and consequently, you'll be the one determining the battle distances most often. Given that, how about a reach weapon? That way you can avoid some AOOs and from time to time you won't have to move as far to still get your sneak and skirmish bonuses. And (I've never used one) don't a lot of them give you damage bonuses on a charge? Keep in mind he needs to move at least 20 feat before he attacks to benefit from IMproved Skirmish...
myshkingfh 02-14-07, 03:41 PM	Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :)
clannagh 02-14-07, 05:38 PM	Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :) actually spring attack against vines can be a good thing
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 05:45 PM	Well, sometimes it wouldn't work, but also sometimes he'll be fighting zombies, vines and golems and he'll be about as helpful as a commoner 15 :) You leave my commoner 15 build out of this! :)
martin_knoff 02-14-07, 05:57 PM	Yes, but hiding also halves movement unless I want to take a large penalty. You can move up to 5 feet less than your normal movement (but more than half) with only a -5 to your hide check. To this end, a level of barbarian can be very helpfull. My Dervish/Shadowdancer was very aware of this. :) Martin.
LachlarlanIII 02-14-07, 06:05 PM	In order to maximize skirmish/sneak attack I can only lose one level. That level was taken by Shadowdancer. I can still move 40 feet in a round even while at half movement though. Scouts get fast movement too. :)
Jay_Ibero_911 02-15-07, 01:32 AM	In order to maximize skirmish/sneak attack I can only lose one level. That level was taken by Shadowdancer. I can still move 40 feet in a round even while at half movement though. Scouts get fast movement too. :) Well, with the build you got there...Your base speed is 40...so at half move you'd only move 20ft with a move action or spring attack movement...
LachlarlanIII 02-15-07, 10:08 AM	Well, with the build you got there...Your base speed is 40...so at half move you'd only move 20ft with a move action or spring attack movement... Oh-ho! But I didn't say while spring attacking :embarrass 20 ft while spring attacking + 20 ft from my other move action = 40 ft. ;)