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| CrystalBlue05-05-07, 09:04 AM | Hehe...yeah. I'm posting this again, cause my special mission needs to be put in now. So here's the progression of my character, baring me dieing horribly at the hands of naughty critters. Please help me figure out if this will be survivable. Human Str: 16 Dex: 12 Con: 14 Int: 14 Wis: 10 Cha: 8 1: Monk (Improved Unarmed) (Improved Grapple) (Dodge) (Mobility) 2: Monk (Combat Reflexes) 3: Monk (Combat Expertice) 4: Monk [Increase Strength] 5: Beguiler And then, assuming that I don't die horribly on my special mission.. 6: Dragon Diciple (Improved Trip) 7: Dragon Diciple 8: Dragon Diciple [Increase Strength] 9: Dragon Diciple (Elusive Target) 10 - 15: Dragon Diciple Here are the things about my build that I don't want to change... 1.) I am going to be a dragon diciple at 6 and stick with it till retirement. Period. Play around with the classes, but do not play around with the PrC. 2.) I want to be a great grappler and a mediocer damage dealer, in a pinch. 3.) I like the idea of being a monk and being a (mostly) unarmed attacker. I'll take other classes, but only if I keep the main idea of the class 4.) Play around with the feats. I didn't know what to take, as there aren't that many good grappler feats, and unarmed attacks require stunning fist, most of the time...plus I don't see them being TOO effective at higher levels. Ok...that should do it. :P |
| Mommy was an Orc05-05-07, 09:54 AM | I'd probably change around the build as follows: 1: Monk 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 2: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 3: Fighter 1: Dodge, EWP: Scorpion Claws(Sandstorm - +4 to Grapple Checks) 4: Fighter 2: Mobility 5: Beguiler 1 6: DD 1: Combat Acrobat(PHB II - you fail to trip, you make a balance check to not be tripped among other things) 9: DD 4: Elusive Target 12: DD 7: Delay Potion(if you get cheap access to 50 gp potions of Enlarge Person, you might want this sooner) This lets you wear a chain shirt a lot earlier. You could also swap Beguiler 1 and Monk 1-2 - the feats need to be a little reordered, but Beguiler spells are great at 1st, not so great at 5th. |
| CrystalBlue05-05-07, 10:22 AM | I'd probably change around the build as follows: 1: Monk 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 2: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes 3: Fighter 1: Dodge, EWP: Scorpion Claws(Sandstorm - +4 to Grapple Checks) 4: Fighter 2: Mobility 5: Beguiler 1 6: DD 1: Combat Acrobat(PHB II - you fail to trip, you make a balance check to not be tripped among other things) 9: DD 4: Elusive Target 12: DD 7: Delay Potion(if you get cheap access to 50 gp potions of Enlarge Person, you might want this sooner) This lets you wear a chain shirt a lot earlier. You could also swap Beguiler 1 and Monk 1-2 - the feats need to be a little reordered, but Beguiler spells are great at 1st, not so great at 5th. I won't be able to do that, as this monk is already made. :P First level with two AR's on him. I could put the Beguiler at 3rd maybe...but the beguiler is only really there for acess to the DD. The next thing I'd need to ask is if I need to ever worry about trying to do any damage or if I should ALWAYS focus on grappling. With only two monk levels, I don't get ki strike or improved hand to hand damage. And, thank you. :D |
| CrystalBlue05-05-07, 01:29 PM | Also...I just want to make sure that I will be able to use a multi-attack as well as a flurry of blows in a full attack. I've seen this happen before. |
| Mommy was an Orc05-05-07, 03:01 PM | I won't be able to do that, as this monk is already made. :P First level with two AR's on him. I could put the Beguiler at 3rd maybe...but the beguiler is only really there for acess to the DD. The next thing I'd need to ask is if I need to ever worry about trying to do any damage or if I should ALWAYS focus on grappling. With only two monk levels, I don't get ki strike or improved hand to hand damage. And, thank you. :D No problem - that's the thing - with the levels in Fighter, you get to put in Combat Acrobat, EWP: Scorpion Claws, and you can then wield a Guisarme in the first couple of rounds of combat - someone charges in, you trip them, then you move in for the grapples. As soon as you want to flurry/claw, you drop the Guisarme. So, the build then goes: Monk Monk Fighter Fighter Beguiler(want to raise Know(arcana) for DD, balance, and tumble for Combat Acrobat) The Ki Focus, just remember, you're eventually going to want GMW cast on you anyway for the bonuses to hit/damage. You can always enchant a Kama for extra damage. You also might want to consider Deadly Defense, too. |
| Dr.Cornelius05-05-07, 04:55 PM | Mommy - Based on the wording of Scorpion Claws I don't believe it is practical to fight with both Scorpion Claws and any other weapon. This is subject to table variation, but based on earlier threads I believe you cannot hold a weapon when you have SC on and it takes at least a round to put on / take off Scorpion Claws. CrystalBlue: 1) If you want to be a Dragon Disciple at least learn to spell it. 2) IMHO Special Missions are deeply problematic, especially a SM for the sole benefit of one character's ambition. See reply #5 in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=837011). |
| Mithreinmaethor05-05-07, 05:52 PM | What is the special mission for any how by the way ? |
| ragecage7905-05-07, 08:20 PM | What is the special mission for any how by the way ? I'm assuming his character is a Highfolk character. You need to do a special mission to be a Dragon Disciple in Highfolk. |
| _metz_05-05-07, 09:39 PM | Mommy - Based on the wording of Scorpion Claws I don't believe it is practical to fight with both Scorpion Claws and any other weapon. This is subject to table variation, but based on earlier threads I believe you cannot hold a weapon when you have SC on and it takes at least a round to put on / take off Scorpion Claws. I would agree with this. CrystalBlue: 1) If you want to be a Dragon Disciple at least learn to spell it. Fair point. 2) IMHO Special Missions are deeply problematic, especially a SM for the sole benefit of one character's ambition. See reply #5 in this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=837011). Personally I like special missions, If you remove them you take away the fun a bit from RPGA - if everyone has to be the same, whilst it removes table variation, it's less fun. I know of lots of character who are committed to plot arcs, that if they didn't get a special wouldn't be allowed to do their funky class. Dragon Disciple is a great example of this, its a funky class that if you ever get all the way through it, people will be like "hey thats cool". (One of my Friends is a 3rd level red dragon disciple, when she gets to level 10 in the class, she is going to have a hard time explaining to the dragon born register and everyone else why she is half red lol) |
| King Kashue05-05-07, 10:07 PM | I'm assuming his character is a Highfolk character. You need to do a special mission to be a Dragon Disciple in Highfolk. I wasn't aware that any region could require more stringent conditions than the LGCS... Unless he's going for an unusual dragon type, the PrC is open per the LGCS. |
| ragecage7905-05-07, 10:16 PM | I wasn't aware that any region could require more stringent conditions than the LGCS... Unless he's going for an unusual dragon type, the PrC is open per the LGCS. It's open in Highfolk but it's very dangerous to be an unregistered Dragon Disciple. Kind of a play at your own risk type of dangerous. However, as far as I know, you can get registered by completing a special mission. |
| King Kashue05-05-07, 11:35 PM | It's open in Highfolk but it's very dangerous to be an unregistered Dragon Disciple. Kind of a play at your own risk type of dangerous. However, as far as I know, you can get registered by completing a special mission. Sort of like Registered Arcanists in the Pale, except it doesn't seem that there's any mechanism for trying to evade the issue (because at lower levels it's not readily apparent that you're a DD, and even at higher levels, illusions and the disguise skill can hide it)... And it's just for DD's with Highfolk as their home region, which is different than arcane registration (obviously, since it requires a SM) Edit: HA! I just noticed the Metadocument is more than three years old...It's got Bulmahn on the Circle and Tulach still as a triad member :D |
| Bold05-06-07, 02:46 AM | It's open in Highfolk but it's very dangerous to be an unregistered Dragon Disciple. Kind of a play at your own risk type of dangerous. However, as far as I know, you can get registered by completing a special mission. From what I hear, attemping that special mission is almost as dangerous as the consequences of not registering (i.e. the extra encounter included in every Highfolk mod just for unregistered Dragon Disciples). Which leads me to ask Crystal Blue, why the heck do you want to play a DD in Highfolk mods? $10 says that in a few months, we'll see another post from you complaining about the unrecoverable death of this character. ;) |
| King Kashue05-06-07, 03:17 AM | From what I hear, attemping that special mission is almost as dangerous as the consequences of not registering (i.e. the extra encounter included in every Highfolk mod just for unregistered Dragon Disciples). Which leads me to ask Crystal Blue, why the heck do you want to play a DD in Highfolk mods? $10 says that in a few months, we'll see another post from you complaining about the unrecoverable death of this character. ;) Eh, just put the character in another region and then you don't have to worry about it :D What I'm actually wondering is what the basis for the rule is. Where does it come from in Canon, since I've never seen anything resembling a prejudice against dragons. And since Highfolk is primarily elves, who tend toward good, and also tend to be educated about arcane matters, they would know that a metallic dragon disciple is almost certainly good. |
| CrystalBlue05-07-07, 07:56 AM | A few things. 1.) It doesn't matter if Highfolk is your home region or not. You walk into a Highfolk regional with a DD, you get the random encounter. And it's almost always designed to kill you. 2.) I understand that this is going to be deadly. I'm going into it with that knowledge. |
| Bold05-07-07, 10:58 AM | What I'm actually wondering is what the basis for the rule is. Where does it come from in Canon, since I've never seen anything resembling a prejudice against dragons. To learn more you'd have to play Highfolk mods, especially the current plot arc. There's more to the Vesve forest than meets the eye; without giving away spoilers for modules still in-play, I can at least confirm that the "extra" encounter vs. dragon disciples found in each Highfolk module makes perfect sense once you know more about the Vesve. |
| King Kashue05-07-07, 01:49 PM | A few things. 1.) It doesn't matter if Highfolk is your home region or not. You walk into a Highfolk regional with a DD, you get the random encounter. And it's almost always designed to kill you. Ah, so the Triad (three years ago, with no further updates) set a policy whereby any Dragon Disciple gets an extra encounter, with no means of avoiding it through illusion or subterfuge (i.e., omniscient opponents), and the only way to avoid said encounter is to get a special mission... A special mission which, by its very nature, is difficult to impossible to play for an out of region character whose player does not live in Wisconsin... Yeah, that's entirely reasonable...:rolleyes: |
| Reylance05-07-07, 02:08 PM | (One of my Friends is a 3rd level red dragon disciple, when she gets to level 10 in the class, she is going to have a hard time explaining to the dragon born register and everyone else why she is half red lol) Sounds like someone spent a romantic evening with Morganstaler. :D |
| Reylance05-07-07, 02:26 PM | Ah, so the Triad (three years ago, with no further updates) set a policy whereby any Dragon Disciple gets an extra encounter, with no means of avoiding it through illusion or subterfuge (i.e., omniscient opponents), and the only way to avoid said encounter is to get a special mission... A special mission which, by its very nature, is difficult to impossible to play for an out of region character whose player does not live in Wisconsin... Yeah, that's entirely reasonable...:rolleyes: I'm not privy to the background of the region, but the impression I have is that the dragons native to the region don't like those with other dragons' blood around, and take actions to oppose them. But their region is the only one to take this approach. I also don't know how they know you've arrived with 100% accuracy. |
| King Kashue05-07-07, 05:53 PM | I also don't know how they know you've arrived with 100% accuracy. That, more than anything else, is the primary issue for me. According to the Metadoc, you either do the special mission or you get the encounter. That's what seems odd. If I have a Dragon Disciple with a +25 Disguise skill and a Hat of Disguise, and a Bluff of +35, and people need a sense motive and spot of DC 50 to realize I'm not whatever I'm pretending to be, I still get the encounter... If that's not the case, then it is likely more reasonable, but as it's worded, it seems off... |
| Bold05-07-07, 09:45 PM | That, more than anything else, is the primary issue for me. Er... Have you even played in the Highfolk region? Do you plan to? Do you even have a Dragon Disciple? If the answer to any of these is "no", why is this even an issue for you? It seems like you're getting riled-up based on secondhand info passed along by people who themselves don't even have the whole story, about something that doesn't even affect you. Then again, this is the Internet... :rolleyes: |
| _metz_05-07-07, 09:49 PM | Sounds like someone spent a romantic evening with Morganstaler. :D Maybe... lol its wuite interesting as the character had always planned to go Dragon Disciple, and was on the Dragonborn Register and everything, lol after the game was going to take first level in it. didn't know it was going to happen, it was just fantastic. Though what She did with the Dragon has earned her no end of crap from all the other PCs since then... |
| King Kashue05-07-07, 11:43 PM | Er... Have you even played in the Highfolk region? Do you plan to? Do you even have a Dragon Disciple? Yes to the first question, and (in one more level) yes to the second. :D If the answer to any of these is "no", why is this even an issue for you? It seems like you're getting riled-up based on secondhand info passed along by people who themselves don't even have the whole story, about something that doesn't even affect you. And even if the answers were "no", I'd be concerned for the same reason I'm concerned about modules with unfair fights, under CRed monsters, etc., in that they're bad for the game and might cause players to leave and/or have bad experiences. And I'm not sure I'd call the official Metadocument "secondhand info" (even if it hasn't been updated in three years) ;) |
| Bold05-08-07, 10:27 AM | Er... Have you even played in the Highfolk region? Do you plan to? Do you even have a Dragon Disciple?Yes to the first question, and (in one more level) yes to the second. :D But "no" to the third, meaning you don't have a Dragon Disciple? Or at least one which will be played in Highfolk mods? Unless you A) have a Dragon Disciple and B) plan to actually PLAY your Dragon Disciple in a Highfolk module, none of this even concerns you. And as for general concern about the well-being of the campaign, I think you're doing more damage by publicly railing against an encounter of which you apparently have NO firsthand knowledge. If you're truly interested in bettering this campaign, your efforts may be better directed towards obtaining factual information before you post complaints and criticism. And I'm not sure I'd call the official Metadocument "secondhand info" (even if it hasn't been updated in three years) ;) Again, there's more going on here than is public knowledge. But I don't have the whole story, and you certainly don't have all the info. And apparently neither of us has run this encounter in a Highfolk mod, so its exact mechanics are mere hearsay at this point (and thus, "secondhand"). As I said above, if you're concerned about this "issue" (even though it doesn't even affect you) I'd encourage you to contact the Highfolk triad for more information. Or you could contact the former Highfolk triad members who were around when this extra encounter was first added to the modules, such as Chris Tulach (now RPGA Content Manager) or Greg Marks (now a Xen’drik Expeditions campaign administrator). |
| King Kashue05-08-07, 10:42 AM | But "no" to the third, meaning you don't have a Dragon Disciple? Or at least one which will be played in Highfolk mods? Unless you A) have a Dragon Disciple and B) plan to actually PLAY your Dragon Disciple in a Highfolk module, none of this even concerns you. In one level I'll have a Dragon Disciple, which is why I wrote: Yes to the first question, and (in one more level) yes to the second. :D I guess I should have said "Yes to the first question, the second question is irrelevant given the answer to the first, and (in one more level) yes to the third"...It evidently would have been less confusing... As for your perception that I'm "railing against this" and should be trying to "obtain factual information", you're welcome to see it that way... However, considering several of my statements are interrogatives, and all of my statements have been based on the explicit premise of "this is what the Metadoc says, and thus what out of region players know", I'm going to disagree with your perception... |
| _metz_05-08-07, 10:48 AM | Whats the problem? you get an extra module to play, tailored for your character. I would see that as a plus. Means you earned your prestige class, and it means something, rather than just meeting some skill points prereqs. Adds to the role playing of the region, and means you can actually probably name the dragon or the being that got you to open up to your dragon within... Seems to be beneficial in the following ways: 1. Provides roleplaying reasopning for your class and direct regional connections 2. You get an Extra Module 3. Your Prestige Class means something in the region. Sure it may be a little dangerous, but sounds fun imho. wish I could do that instead of just hoping for random AR access based on a random conversation with a random NPC. |
| Bold05-08-07, 11:29 AM | In one level I'll have a Dragon Disciple But will you be playing it in Highfolk mods? You do realize that's the key issue, right? You could have a dozen Dragon Disciples, or play Highfolk mods exclusively, but unless you're playing a Dragon Disciple in a Highfolk mod none of this concerns you. As for your perception that I'm "railing against this" and should be trying to "obtain factual information", you're welcome to see it that way... You're making judgments about an encounter of which you have no firsthand knowledge. You're speculating on whether or not the mechanics of it are reasonable, even though you don't know even know what those mechanics are. (And again, for the record, I haven't run/played that encounter either... but I'm not criticizing it.) I'm not sure why you've set up this artificial constraint that your information can only come from published documents when it's clear that the campaign administration encourages the use of the regional discussion groups and even establishes a Point of Contact within each regional triad to respond to questions and concerns just like this. If you want the real scoop, contact the Highfolk triad (or Chris Tulach or Greg Marks). But if you'd prefer to continue to complain from a position of ignorance... meh, I can't help ya'. |
| Mommy was an Orc05-08-07, 11:37 AM | Whats the problem? you get an extra module to play, tailored for your character. I would see that as a plus. Sure it may be a little dangerous, but sounds fun imho. wish I could do that instead of just hoping for random AR access based on a random conversation with a random NPC. I don't think King minds the danger - I suspect he actually wants the danger. Just not the auto-kill kind which makes very little mechanical or game sense on multiple levels. Honestly, if there are creatures on Oerth that have the apparently Epic capability to detect Prestige Class with no defense, you think they'd have better things to do than to kill 6th level characters. |
| Bold05-08-07, 12:24 PM | Honestly, if there are creatures on Oerth that have the apparently Epic capability to detect Prestige Class I don't think it's a mere "creature" detecting the presence of Dragon Disciples. The impression I get (and I could well be wrong on this) is that the extra encounter for Dragon Disciples is... well, it's kinda' like white blood cells responding to foreign matter in your body. If you're just concentrating on the mechanics of the white blood cells, you're missing the big picture. And yes, this is Epic-level stuff goin' on, if it's what I think it is. At least, that's my relatively-uninformed impression based on events in recent mods (which I won't recap since they're still in play) and a little bit of behind-the-scenes info. King Kashue's initial complaint was about the canonical basis for this encounter, and from what I've seen it makes perfect sense. King Kashue's second complaint was about the mechanics involved; I'm not familiar with this encounter, but based on the entities involved, the encounter's mechanics (even if it is auto-detect) are quite justified. But again, any concerns (especially from those who it actually affects--that is, players who intend to run unregistered Dragon Disciples in the Vesve Forest) should be directed to the Highfolk triad. |
| King Kashue05-08-07, 03:15 PM | But will you be playing it in Highfolk mods? You do realize that's the key issue, right? You could have a dozen Dragon Disciples, or play Highfolk mods exclusively, but unless you're playing a Dragon Disciple in a Highfolk mod none of this concerns you. Once again, I appreciate your opinion, and once again I disagree... Since I don't actually know the future, I can't say whether I'll play him in a high folks module at some undetermined point multiple months from now...:rolleyes: If and when I play one this summer, I'll be sure to inform you that it now concerns me...Why what I'm concerned about is anything of your concern, I'm not sure, but evidently it is, so I'll be sure to keep you up to date... You're making judgments about an encounter of which you have no firsthand knowledge. You're speculating on whether or not the mechanics of it are reasonable, even though you don't know even know what those mechanics are. (And again, for the record, I haven't run/played that encounter either... but I'm not criticizing it.) I'm not sure why you've set up this artificial constraint that your information can only come from published documents when it's clear that the campaign administration encourages the use of the regional discussion groups and even establishes a Point of Contact within each regional triad to respond to questions and concerns just like this. [quote] Some of the mechanics have indeed been stated, officially, in the metadoc. I don't know why you think it's "artificial" for me to look at what the metadoc says and then base an opinion on that. I haven't "passed judgement" on anything that isn't explicitly stated in the metadoc...The things that are uncertain are what I'm inquiring about... [quote]If you want the real scoop, contact the Highfolk triad (or Chris Tulach or Greg Marks). But if you'd prefer to continue to complain from a position of ignorance... meh, I can't help ya'. Well, since I didn't ask for your "help", I'm not too broken up about it...:rolleyes: And as a note, I didn't realize "ignorance" evidently means "taken from the metadoc"... |
| King Kashue05-08-07, 03:16 PM | I don't think King minds the danger - I suspect he actually wants the danger. Just not the auto-kill kind which makes very little mechanical or game sense on multiple levels. Precisely...:D |
| Bold05-08-07, 03:56 PM | Why what I'm concerned about is anything of your concern, I'm not sure, but evidently it is, so I'll be sure to keep you up to date... I think you've misunderstood. It sounds like you're going all "Internet white knight" about an issue that doesn't even affect you. I only care about your unfounded criticism posted on a public forum. By the way, which Highfolk convention are you thinking about attending this summer? I don't know why you think it's "artificial" for me to look at what the metadoc says and then base an opinion on that. What's "artificial" is your insistance that you can use ONLY the published regional materials, and your refusal to use any other resource to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. But I suspect you won't bother to contact the Highfolk POC or Tulach or anyone else, because it's easier just to bash the volunteers than to ask for clarification, right? :rolleyes: And that's basically what it comes down to, for me. As a former Triad member (from a different region) and occasional module author, I understand how difficult it can be to create an immersive regional plotline and campaign world. The Highfolk triad (both current and former) has done an impressive job creating a rich, layered regional storyline, and the "extra DD encounter" is a side effect of a very cool concept integrated both into the previous 5-year story arc and the current 3-year story arc. It saddens me to see your judgmental appraisal (complete with sarcastic eye-rolling) of something about which you have absolutely no firsthand knowledge, rather than asking honest questions from people best-suited to answer them. |
| King Kashue05-08-07, 06:25 PM | I think you've misunderstood. It sounds like you're going all "Internet white knight" about an issue that doesn't even affect you. I only care about your unfounded criticism posted on a public forum. What's "artificial" is your insistance that you can use ONLY the published regional materials, and your refusal to use any other resource to fill in the gaps in your knowledge. But I suspect you won't bother to contact the Highfolk POC or Tulach or anyone else, because it's easier just to bash the volunteers than to ask for clarification, right? :rolleyes: I haven't insisted on any such thing, so pack that strawman back into the corn fields... I have made definite statements based off of the explicit info in the Metadoc. I have made conditional statements based off the secondhand info from other folks, and based off of my conclusions drawn from the explicit info. I.e., I've "passed judgment" where I have solid info and speculated where I don't. I've not made a definite statement regarding anything for which I don't have definite info. So any claim that I have (like, say, your claim that I have) is false. That's what you're not getting. You've lumped all my statements together without looking at what the basis is for each... As for what I will or won't "bother to do", feel free to stuff that logical fallacy back in your bag as well. It's been less than a day since my first post, and I won't have you passing judgment on me for something you cannot possible substantiate...For someone who seems to be harping on me for passing judgment when I don't have a basis, you seem to be doing a lot of it (and you're actually doing it, as opposed to me)... And that's basically what it comes down to, for me. As a former Triad member (from a different region) and occasional module author, I understand how difficult it can be to create an immersive regional plotline and campaign world. The Highfolk triad (both current and former) has done an impressive job creating a rich, layered regional storyline, and the "extra DD encounter" is a side effect of a very cool concept integrated both into the previous 5-year story arc and the current 3-year story arc. It saddens me to see your judgmental appraisal (complete with sarcastic eye-rolling) of something about which you have absolutely no firsthand knowledge, rather than asking honest questions from people best-suited to answer them. And once more, since you've missed it the previous times I've said it: I've only "passed judgment" on the information explicitly stated in the Metadoc. I've speculated/inquired as to other info, but I've not "condemned" them for anything that isn't part of their written policy. And more generally, I have nothing but thanks and praise for all the volunteers that make LG work. And despite your perception that something or someone needs to be defended, I wasn't attacking anyone. I was questioning regarding the elements I did not know, and took specific and limited issue with the elements I did know... Once again, your perception that my posts are some sort of general attack on the Triad doesn't change the fact they're specific, limited disagreements, and specific, limited questions... Between the two of us, you're the one who seems to be going White Knight, "opposing the unjust attacker", except there's no one who actually needs defending. By the way, which Highfolk convention are you thinking about attending this summer? The border-con in La Crosse in July. Not sure if I'll go though, it's a long drive from Detroit. As a final note, if it will make you happy, I'll email Chris. However, my only question to him would be one already answered, namely that this is story-arc, not canon. Anything about the current policy, he wouldn't know. And the only thing I'd have to ask them is "how does an out-of-region player get the SM", since the fact they need it is explicit, and the fact they get the encounter is explicit (again, I'm actually assuming very little, and I'm not basing any conclusive evaluation on speculation)... |
| Bold05-08-07, 07:07 PM | And more generally, I have nothing but thanks and praise for all the volunteers that make LG work. And despite your perception that something or someone needs to be defended, I wasn't attacking anyone. The tone of the following seems quite aggressive: Ah, so the Triad (three years ago, with no further updates) set a policy whereby any Dragon Disciple gets an extra encounter, with no means of avoiding it through illusion or subterfuge (i.e., omniscient opponents), and the only way to avoid said encounter is to get a special mission... A special mission which, by its very nature, is difficult to impossible to play for an out of region character whose player does not live in Wisconsin... Yeah, that's entirely reasonable...:rolleyes: Sounds like an attack to me. But maybe you're just misunderstood. ;) As for why you'd contact the Triad (current or former), I initially suggested it since you seemed to have such a problem with the mechanics of the encounter, what with your concern for anything which is "bad for the game and might cause players to leave and/or have bad experiences". You seem to to reiterate that position when you responded to MwaO's post by replying, "Precisely". If you have such an issue with this encounter, why not talk to someone who actually knows the full story? And/or would be in a position to do something about it? |
| King Kashue05-08-07, 08:15 PM | The tone of the following seems quite aggressive: Sounds like an attack to me. But maybe you're just misunderstood. ;) It's a criticism of an explicit policy. Saying "that policy is unreasonable" is not the same as "The Triad are a bunch of jerks/morons"...One is an address of a specific idea, one is a personal attack... |
| CrystalBlue05-09-07, 12:57 PM | *whines and looks up, all pouty* Come on, guys...chill. It's not that big of a deal. All I wanted was help on a grappler build to put my dragon diciple through. I didn't want this to become overblown or anything. Highfolk is a scary and hard region for anyone that wants to play a DD. And I've seen three players of the region in LaCrosse try and take on the mission. Two of them were masterful character makers and they both got owned...in the face (and I think I know why the third one became a DD... >.>;;). I'm taking this mission not because I want to circumvent the costs of my choice, but because I want to be counted in on the secrets in the region. I mean, hell, I've met Gil a few times already...(have yet to meet Morgy though...) and I want to know what they're all planning. The rules and exceptions that the triad use for this are no mechanics in D&D. But Living Greyhawk is a campaign just like any other that you'd play at home. And just like those, the DM (or triad in this case) is bound to make up some rules or mechanics to more easily tell the story the way they have invisioned. Players can rightfully question the DM about these rules, but to argue about them just detracts from the fun of the game. As a judge and player in LaCrosse here, I'll tell you straight that the encounters in year 5 and 6 were designed to keep draconic types out of Highfolk. You could technically run from these encounters, so I think they were just made to scare away people. Once the triad figured out that most players (stupidly enough) would actually FIGHT these things alone...unprepared...and typically outmatched, they introduced other methods to disuade people. I think I can remember one encounter where if you were a DD, the encounter was just a very scary warning and you were allowed to continue the mod. So...not to be a pain, but if you two would like to continue this conversation, please pull it to the main board. I'd only like help on this build. I understand, better then either of you, what the triad is fishing for in this story line. However, to actually explain it to you would be like telling you the ending to a great movie. I'd rather not do that to you. Though, I'll be happy to talk about it when the story is over. ^.^ And I do hope to see the both of you at Conflict this year. I'll be running most of the time...and I may get to run either of you through the interactive. I hope it's as deadly and scary as it was last year. Won't that be fun? :D *yaps and runs away now* Now...about my dragon d... :P I need to do damage, I think. And I've been told I can't add my natural attacks when I flurry. Is this true? |
| Japangirl05-09-07, 01:38 PM | Now...about my dragon d... :P I need to do damage, I think. And I've been told I can't add my natural attacks when I flurry. Is this true? Nope, not at all. You can flurry and then do all your natural attacks afterwards at a -7 penalty (-5 for secondary attack, -2 from flurry), as long as they weren't used in the flurry. For an example, see the troll hunter in the MM. He uses a battleaxe in one hand for two iterative attacks and then gets both his other claw and his bite as secondary natural attacks. So as DD, flurry of kicks then claw/claw/bite. I know a monk/druid/warshaper whose attack routine in dire bear form is flurry/flurry/iterative/claw/claw/bite/gore. That gets some funny looks from DMs who don't know him, that's for sure! |
| CrystalBlue05-09-07, 05:26 PM | So...I can get my natural attacks in, at the -7. And if I took Multiattack, then I could get those down to -4. The question then is...is it benificial to take the Multiattack and find a way to increase my damage? |
| Japangirl05-09-07, 05:45 PM | It would be if Multiattack was allowed to PCs . . . |
| bitznarf05-09-07, 05:55 PM | It is allowed as of LGCS 597. |
| Japangirl05-09-07, 06:03 PM | So it is. Then yes, it's a good feat to take with no caveats attached. |
| solbergb05-09-07, 06:27 PM | Well..you need 3 natural attacks to get multiattack. But a dragon disciple/monk can generally manage to meet that requirement. |
| Morgen05-14-07, 07:55 PM | Bah, we shall come to Highfolk and we shall ruin the little draconic council they've been coveting. Stopping out the spawn of Tiamat in the name of the Platinum One! Rawr. >.> |