Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gerhexe 12-20-07, 05:24 PM	Just wanted some advice on building this character. Was thinking of using a light spiked shield and a scimitar or longsword. Shield is the offhand weapon for TWF. Str 18 Con 14 Dex 14 Int 8 Wis 8 Con 8 1 Scout 1 (BAB+0) skill focus handle animal, Expeditious Dodge 2 Scout 2 (BAB+1) 3 Scout 3 (BAB+2) Mounted Combat, (CF) speed 4 Ranger 1 (BAB+3) (+STR) (CF)Track 5 Scout 4 (BAB+4) (B) Swift Hunter 6 Beast Master (BAB+5) Improved Skirmish (CF) Animal Companion 7 Wild Plains Outrider 1 (BAB+6) (CF) WildP Stalker (CF) Ride Bonus 8 Wild Plains Outrider 2 (BAB+7) (+STR) (CF) WildP Swiftness 9 Wild Plains Outrider 3 (BAB+8) Imp Shield Bash (CF) WildP Offensive 10 Ranger 2 (BAB+5) (CF) TW Fighting 11 Ranger 3 (BAB+10) (CF) Endurance 12 Ranger 4 (BAB+11) Ride By Attack 13 Ranger 5 (BAB+12) 14 Ranger 6 (BAB+13) (CF) Imp TW Fighting (CF) Fav Enemy 3 15 Barbarian 1 (BAB+14) Dual Strike (CF) Speed (CF) Rage Favored enemies will be Undead, Construct, and plant or slime so i can skirmish them. Is there an advantage to using the shield without a spike against undead becuase its blunt instead of piercing and the difference is only 1d4 vs 1d3and most my damage will be from skirmish? Any advice or ideas would be appreciated PS I know my will save sucks : )
RtrnofdMax 12-20-07, 05:48 PM	I can see where you're trying to go here with the TWF and the mount, but the scout errata made it so you cannot skirmish mounted. It sure would be nice to have the horsie move 20 ft and allow you to dish out skirmish damage on a full attack, but alas it is not to be. Also, Dual Strike only applies precision damage once, so you don't get two sets of skirmish damage with that either.
Gerhexe 12-20-07, 06:00 PM	Ouch nerfed by errata
Gerhexe 12-20-07, 06:09 PM	Is dervish the only way to get skirmish damage on your full attack?
RtrnofdMax 12-20-07, 06:24 PM	If your DM with allow it, the anklets of translocation move you 10 feet. With my scout, I have just built him so he does one really meaty strike and then gets out. 2H weapon, power attack, swift hunter, improved skirmish, spring attack, expeditious dodge: I hit for up to +10 (PA) + 4d6 and I end my turn as far from the enemy as I can with an extra +5 to AC. Works for me. Also, I can rage so as long as I connect, it hurts.
Sieylianna 12-20-07, 06:29 PM	The belt of battle could do it too. Ed
bitznarf 12-20-07, 06:48 PM	Anklets of translocation specifically don't work, in the same way dimension door doesn't work. Belt of battle would work very well though I think.
Fakegoatee 12-20-07, 07:49 PM	Anklets of translocation specifically don't work, in the same way dimension door doesn't work. What's the reference for dim. door and anklets not working for this? I can't find it in the FAQ or errata.
Gerhexe 12-20-07, 08:35 PM	What book is belt of battle from?
Sieylianna 12-20-07, 10:13 PM	What book is belt of battle from? MIC
Gerhexe 12-20-07, 10:33 PM	sorry to be a pain but what does MIC stand for?
copperwyrmling 12-21-07, 12:40 AM	sorry to be a pain but what does MIC stand for? Magic Item Compendium.
Gerhexe 12-21-07, 01:02 AM	Is that open for greyhawk?
copperwyrmling 12-21-07, 01:12 AM	Is that open for greyhawk? No, you need to find access to MIC stuff. There's been quite a lot of it out there, though (although I've only seen Belt of Battle once: it's an extraordinarily powerful item).
bitznarf 12-21-07, 10:43 AM	What's the reference for dim. door and anklets not working for this? I can't find it in the FAQ or errata. Sorry, I was talking about the wrong thing. The quote in particular that I am looking at from the Complete Adventurer Errata: "The extra damage applies only to attacks made after the scout has moved at least 10 feet. The skirmish ability cannot be used while mounted." So if you cannot use it while mounted, I see absolutely no reason you would be able to use it after a dim door or anklet of translocation. This is a derivative of a rule however, not a direct rule, so I suppose you may find a DM that would allow it. I do seem to recall a rule somewhere that you can't use dim door or the like to activate your skirmish though.
Gerhexe 12-21-07, 11:40 AM	What if you are wildshaped to a form that gets pounce?
Fakegoatee 12-21-07, 11:44 AM	Sorry, I was talking about the wrong thing. The quote in particular that I am looking at from the Complete Adventurer Errata: "So if you cannot use it while mounted, I see absolutely no reason you would be able to use it after a dim door or anklet of translocation. This is a derivative of a rule however, not a direct rule, so I suppose you may find a DM that would allow it. I do seem to recall a rule somewhere that you can't use dim door or the like to activate your skirmish though. No prob. Just for the sake of argument, here's a reason you might be able to use skirmish with anklets but not dim door. If a scout moves via dim door, either he he cast it himself somehow or someone else cast it and took him along for the ride. In the former case, you can't skirmish because the dim door spell description says you can't take more actions on your turn after casting the spell. In the latter case, you can't skirmish because you didn't move yourself -- someone else moved you via the spell, just as your mount moves you when you ride it. Anklets work differently from dim door and mounts, though. Their description does not say you can't act after using them, and a scout who activates an anklet is not being moved by someone else. So, one might contend that you can skirmish using an anklet but not using dim door.
bitznarf 12-21-07, 11:50 AM	If a scout moves via dim door, either he he cast it himself somehow or someone else cast it and took him along for the ride. In the former case, you can't skirmish because the dim door spell description says you can't take more actions on your turn after casting the spell. In the latter case, you can't skirmish because you didn't move yourself -- someone else moved you via the spell, just as your mount moves you when you ride it. Anklets work differently from dim door and mounts, though. Their description does not say you can't act after using them, and a scout who activates an anklet is not being moved by someone else. So, one might contend that you can skirmish using an anklet but not using dim door. I can see the difference between the anklet and the dim door, but not between the mount and the anklet. In both cases, *you* have not moved: you can still take a 5' step.
bitznarf 12-21-07, 12:21 PM	What if you are wildshaped to a form that gets pounce? Yes, it would work then. Or with wildrunner pounce.
MwaO 12-21-07, 12:38 PM	Is dervish the only way to get skirmish damage on your full attack? Grapple. 5' step, then free action move 5' once you stick your grapple. Pin and release if you like. There are some cheesy things to do, such as grapple a friend, then pop out on the other side by releasing him. When you have the number of attacks that you will... I'd do the build roughly like this: Wood Elf Str 18, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 6, Wis 14, Cha 8 1: Scout 1: Power Attack 2: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist 3: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, Improved Grapple 4: Ranger 1: Track 5: Scout 2 6: Scout 3: Swift Hunter 7: Ranger 2: TWF 8: Ranger 3: Endurance 9: Ranger 4: ITWF->Ascetic Hunter(when hitting 11th) 10: Ranger 5 11: Ranger 6: ITWF 12: Wildrunner 1: Improved Natural Attack 13: Wildrunner 2 14: Fighter 1: The Water Breaks Stone feat from PHBII 15: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage(for that added level of being ridiculous)
Gerhexe 12-21-07, 12:59 PM	Okay im taking another stab at it... tear this one apart for me 1 Scout 1 (BAB+0) Expeditious Dodge, Cleave,(CF) Trapfinding, Skirmish 1d6, 2 Scout 2 (BAB+1) (CF) Uncanny Dodge, Battle F 1 3 Scout 3 (BAB+2) Mobility,(CF) Fast 10,Trackless Step 4 Ranger 1 (BAB+3) (+Dex) (CF)Track,Wild Empathy,Favored Enemy 5 Scout 4 (BAB+4) (B) Swift Hunter 6 Ranger 2 (BAB+5) Improved Skirmish (CF) TWF 7 Fighter 1 (BAB)+6 (B) Two Weapon Pounce 8 Fighter 2 (BAB+7) (+dex) (B) Spring Attack 9 Barbarian 1 (BAB+8) Improved Shield Bash (CF) Rage (CF) Fast 20 10 Ranger 3 (BAB+9) Endurance 11 Ranger 4 (BAB+10) (CF) Animal Companion 12 Ranger 5 (BAB+11) Skill Focus Handle Animal 13 Ranger 6 (BAB+12) (CF) Imp TWF (CF) FE3 14 Beastmaster 1 (BAB+13) (CF) Animal Companion 15 Beastmaster 1 (BAB+14) Bounding Assault
bitznarf 12-21-07, 01:07 PM	I'm not sure that the beastmaster levels wouldn't be better spent elsewhere, an EDL 8 animal companion is kinda underwhelming combat wise at level 15. You may want to look at Wildrunner for those 2 levels, you already have Endurance at that point.
Gerhexe 12-21-07, 01:59 PM	Well im working with a human scout lvl 3 already, so trying to build around that. But yeah if I started over id go elf or halfelf and take windrunner
RtrnofdMax 12-21-07, 04:33 PM	Okay im taking another stab at it... tear this one apart for me 1 Scout 1 (BAB+0) Expeditious Dodge, Cleave,(CF) Trapfinding, Skirmish 1d6, You have cleave without power attack. You probably don't want cleave anyways. Others can chime in on this one, but I have heard it said that cleave loses it's usefulness with escalating monster HPs. Perhaps you can take it and train out of it later, as long as you take power attack first ;) .
Al 12-21-07, 04:37 PM	My scout/swashbuckler uses a keen courtblade and telling blow, improved skirmish. Works out quite well.
bitznarf 12-21-07, 05:14 PM	Well im working with a human scout lvl 3 already, so trying to build around that. But yeah if I started over id go elf or halfelf and take windrunner You also appear to be taking xp/gp penalties: ranger6 scout4 fighter2 barb1 looks like 20% at level 10 and 40% at levels 11-15 to me.
Sieylianna 12-21-07, 05:17 PM	What if you are wildshaped to a form that gets pounce? Personally, I think it's suicidal for a druid to wild shape in combat after the changes to wild shape made earlier this year (and I have a 12th level druid). If you want to fight effectively, you need to be able to wild shape into a large animal, which requires 8 druid levels. So your skirmish is limited in LG. Ed
magebeast 12-21-07, 07:11 PM	Personally, I think it's suicidal for a druid to wild shape in combat after the changes to wild shape made earlier this year (and I have a 12th level druid). If you want to fight effectively, you need to be able to wild shape into a large animal, which requires 8 druid levels. So your skirmish is limited in LG. Ed The most broken character I know is a wildshaping Druid. You mean before the Large Animals, right?
Gerhexe 01-04-08, 10:39 AM	Okay, ive dropped the pet and im taking another stab at it using a Greatsword and armor spikes. STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 8 CHA 8 1 Scout 1 (BAB+0) Expeditious Dodge, Power Atk,(CF) Trapfinding,Skirmish 2 Scout 2 (BAB+1) (CF) Uncanny Dodge,Battle F 3 Scout 3 (BAB+2) Mobility,(CF) Fast 10, (CF) Trackless Step 4 Ranger 1 (BAB+3) (DEX) (CF)Track,Wild Empathy,Favored Enemy 5 Scout 4 (BAB+4) (B) Swift Hunter 6 Ranger 2 (BAB+5) Improved Skirmish (CF) TWF 7 Fighter 1 (BAB+6) (B) Spring ATK 8 Fighter 2 (BAB+7) (+DEX) (B) Imp TWF (NEED GLOVES OF DEX 2) 9 Tempest 1 (BAB+8) TW Pounce (CF) Tempest Defense 1 10 Tempest 2 (BAB+9) (CF) Ambidexterity -1 11 Tempest 3 (BAB+10) (CF) Two Weapon Versatility, Tempest Defense 2 12 Tempest 4 (BAB+11) Imp Buck Def (+DEX) (CF)Ambidexterity -0 13 Tempest 5 (BAB+12) (CF) Tempest Defense 3 (CF) TW spring attack <RT> TW Pounce to Cleave 14 Barbarian 1 (BAB+13) (CF) Fast 10 (CF) Rage 15 Barbarian 2 (BAB+14) Reckless Rage (CF) Improved Uncanny Dodge Possible lvl 15 feats: Reckless Rage, Weapon focus, extra rage
MwaO 01-04-08, 10:55 AM	Okay, ive dropped the pet and im taking another stab at it using a Greatsword and armor spikes. STR 18 DEX 14 CON 14 INT 8 WIS 8 CHA 8 1 Scout 1 (BAB+0) Expeditious Dodge, Power Atk,(CF) Trapfinding,Skirmish 2 Scout 2 (BAB+1) (CF) Uncanny Dodge,Battle F 3 Scout 3 (BAB+2) Mobility,(CF) Fast 10, (CF) Trackless Step 4 Ranger 1 (BAB+3) (DEX) (CF)Track,Wild Empathy,Favored Enemy 5 Scout 4 (BAB+4) (B) Swift Hunter 6 Ranger 2 (BAB+5) Improved Skirmish (CF) TWF 7 Fighter 1 (BAB+6) (B) Spring ATK 8 Fighter 2 (BAB+7) (+DEX) (B) Imp TWF (NEED GLOVES OF DEX 2) 9 Tempest 1 (BAB+8) TW Pounce (CF) Tempest Defense 1 10 Tempest 2 (BAB+9) (CF) Ambidexterity -1 11 Tempest 3 (BAB+10) (CF) Two Weapon Versatility, Tempest Defense 2 12 Tempest 4 (BAB+11) Imp Buck Def (+DEX) (CF)Ambidexterity -0 13 Tempest 5 (BAB+12) (CF) Tempest Defense 3 (CF) TW spring attack <RT> TW Pounce to Cleave 14 Barbarian 1 (BAB+13) (CF) Fast 10 (CF) Rage 15 Barbarian 2 (BAB+14) Reckless Rage (CF) Improved Uncanny Dodge Possible lvl 15 feats: Reckless Rage, Weapon focus, extra rage I think most of the first part looks good, but Tempest is a really underpowered PrC for the opportunity cost of getting into it. Swift Hunter is one of those feats that only gets better as you put more levels into it, and Tempest doesn't stack with it - Scout 4/Ranger 6/Fighter 4 does a lot of what you'd like to accomplish, but gives you an additional 2 favored enemies, an extra die of skirmish, and the ability to get MWM. Something to consider is using a Spiked Heavy Shield two-handed with Improved Shield Bash. If you get access to the Bashing Property, there's a 2d6 weapon that gives you an AC bonus.
Gerhexe 01-04-08, 12:14 PM	The reason for tempest was to get two skirmish attacks in a round, but if you can think of a better way to do it using ranger/scout please let me know. So far im up to lvl 3 and am human. Ill look at improved shield bash, thanks!
MwaO 01-04-08, 12:40 PM	The reason for tempest was to get two skirmish attacks in a round, but if you can think of a better way to do it using ranger/scout please let me know. So far im up to lvl 3 and am human. Ill look at improved shield bash, thanks! At the point where Tempest gives you this, you could have taken Bounding Assault one level earlier(PHB II)