Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Shieldhart91 04-22-07, 01:53 PM	Hello, all. I'm trying to make an effective Cleric build that would be a great supportive party member. I haven't played a cleric yet, so I think this would be enjoyable for me (it's either this or the naked 80-year old Beguiler), so I'm leaning this or that. The cleric however... Starting Ability Scores: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 16 Level 1: Cleric | Tower Shield Proficiency, Consecrate Spell | Concentration 4 ranks, Heal 2 Ranks, Knowledge (Religion) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 2 ranks Level 2: Marshal | Retrain Tower Shield Proficiancy for Extend Spell | Concentration 1 rank, Heal 1 rank, Knowledge (Religion) 1 rank | Motivate Will Level 3: Cleric | [Open Feat] | Concentration +1, Heal +1, K (R) +1, Spellcraft +1 Level 4: Marshal | +1 to Cha | Con +1, Heal +1, K (R) +1 And the rest is history. Or the future. Whatever. I just want to be the best Marshal/Cleric combo in history. For a deity, I picked Mayaheine for the Nobility and Good domains. The tower shield proficiency is simply something to help survivability at first level so I can be an effective tank with my AC 19. Buy Full Plate and a better Tower Shield later on. Not looking to do damage, just buff the party and at Level 6- maybe get a Bard cohort to follow around and enhance the party even more. Help?
magebeast 04-22-07, 02:14 PM	Tanking with 8 HP seems moderately suicidal.
budleiser 04-22-07, 02:48 PM	Tanking with 8 HP seems moderately suicidal. Tanking with -8 is better.
Shieldhart91 04-22-07, 03:38 PM	I'm not tanking with 8 hp all of the time. Going Defensive makes it AC 21 at APL 2- which really isn't that bad. AC 10 (without armor) AC 19 (with +1 Full Plate) AC 24 (with +1 Tower Shield) AC 25 (with Amulet of Natural Armor +1) AC 26 (with Ring of Protection +1) Going Defensive...AC 28. Shield of Faith at lower levels, and it's AC 30. That sounds pretty effective as a tank. Being a supportive caster, I won't have to pull the crazy AC out of my ass until I run out of spells...just keep the Scroll of Shield of Faith handy for when I'm ready. Maybe take Craft Wand to make as many wands as Shield of Faith as I can. Then retrain it to something more useful. Using Combat Expertise might help even more at certain levels- but I don't have the INT for it.
clik_ml 04-22-07, 04:45 PM	Your stats are only strained because you made the questionable choice to put so much into Cha and Wis. Wisdom really doesn't have to be so high considering you aren't even a primary caster. You could get by with a 14 easily allowing 4 more points to go elsewhere for either an acceptable Con score or some Int for Combat Expertise (I'd lean towards Con however). It looks like your character wants to be a high AC blocker who can't hurt anything, and lends a couple small buffs to allies (so far just +3 to will saves, and domains ew). That's not terribly helpful. Smart enemies will simply ignore you, strong enemies will still crush you, and the buff support you grant is nothing bragable. Without any means to provoke enemies, you may often wind up just taking up space in a battlefield as your allies do all the work. I've played with allies like that, and it's something of a pain. A good offense really does make a better defense. I'd recommend finding something either offensive to add to the build or a whole lot more (and better) buffs to bring to the table.
cycloptic_squirrel 04-22-07, 05:11 PM	I play a bard 1/cleric X that tanks, and it's not too bad. With what you're looking for I'd suggest straight up cleric. You'd better be going for something very specific to justify diluting a cleric's levels. I sometimes regret missing even a single level. You could dip into marshal for a level, but I'm not sure it's worth it, and I'd definitely question the second level. And not starting with a 14 Con always provokes questions. Let me know what you think of something like... Human Str 10, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 15 (bumps here), Cha 14 Full cleric of Celestian (Destiny and Travel) feats to taste Wear full plate and a heavy shield. Starting AC of 21. Just take buff spells and add flanks with a spiked gauntlet. I can't tell you what this strategy is like at higher levels, but it works well up to lv 6 (as long as there is a beef stick to buff up).
Timlagor 04-23-07, 11:21 AM	* Dropping Cleric levels lowers your power -this may be acceptable: Clerics are pretty much the most powerful Class after all. * <6BP to Con is something that should only be done with extreme caution and never with a frontliner [..well unless you really want to but you're better know exactly what you're doing if you're goig to make it to 10th level] * A frontliner without Power Attack had better have something pretty impressive to get the enemies' attention. Your build looks like an entirely support caster with probably sub-iconic power to me. Playng him different would only lower your power further. I don't want to be discouraging but I really do think you'd come to regret playing the guy inthe original post in LG.