Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Banor 07-18-07, 09:39 AM	I was thinking to build melee guy with a lot of supporting abilities. His role in combat is mostly to help with flanking and backing up people with his longspear while keep buffs ups. He might not shine too much in combat but other people get a big boost from him being around :) Halfelf Chaotic Good Str : 14 Dex : 10 Con : 14 Int : 12 Wis : 8 Cha : 16 1.Marshal 1 : Power Attack, Minor aura (Motivate Dexterity)* 2.Marshal 2 : Major Aura (Motivate attack)* 3.Bard 1 : Extra Song, Inspire Courage +1* 4.Bard 2 : Stat Boost Charisma (17) (Grabbing this level for Insipirational boost) 5.Fighter 1 : Weapon Focus (Longspear)* 6.Barbarian 1 : Extra Rage 7.Outcast Champion 1 : Aura of Confidence* 8.OC2 : Stat boost Charisma (18) Avenging Strike* 9.OC3 : Leadership, Desperate Fury* 10.OC4 : Teamwork* 11.OC5 : Desperate Fury (shared)* 12.Fighter 2 : Stat boost Int, Combat expertise, Improved Critical (longspear)* 13.Warchanter 1 : Inspire Toughness* 14.Warchanter 2 15.Warchanter 3 : Inspire recklesness*. Open feat slot So at level 11, I'll be giving passivly +1 to hit +5 to will saves, +6 Initiative, and a Rage ability if i drop to 50% HP with the possibility to start combats with Boosted Inspire Courage for an additional +2 to hit. Now the character itself will not be pushing inseane damage. Except when I Rage+Desperate Fury, my strenght will be a bit sub par for a melee type. Avenging strike will act as a super smite to help pumping some damage. At level 15, I'll turn my group in a Heedless charger group without the charging requirement (yea that at L15 but still :P) For my cohort, i was thinking to grab an arcanist with a lot of buffing magic or a fighter type to make use of the teamwork class feature (better aid action). I'm not too sure on that so idea would be appreciated :)
jimmy_dowdall 07-18-07, 09:54 AM	marshals get matrial weapon d'ont they, if they do why not take a glavie get d10 damage rather than d8, if they don't when u take ur fighter level pick ne up then and take wf for that.
Banor 07-18-07, 09:58 AM	marshals get matrial weapon d'ont they, if they do why not take a glavie get d10 damage rather than d8, if they don't when u take ur fighter level pick ne up then and take wf for that. They do and I gotta be blind ! I swear i had checked Martial Reach weapon before picking longspear :) Thanks for the input :) Any idea for cohort ?
jimmy_dowdall 07-18-07, 10:32 AM	gut feeling is cleric extra buffing and healing maybe go for mystic theurge and have the whole support package between your character and his cohort
Eric Anondson 07-18-07, 01:46 PM	Maybe a human cleric of Trithereon, with the chaos or good domains and the summoner domains. Take Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summonning, Extra Turning, Domain Spontaneity (summoner), and Divine Ward. Then the cohort can summon beasts spontaneously to flank the melee buddies, and if the beasts are chaotic or good depending on which you choose then the cleric summons them at +2 caster level. Divine Ward is just too excellent for a support cleric.
jstorrie 07-18-07, 03:55 PM	I don't think it's a great idea to build for Inspire Recklessness if you're only going to get it at level 15. You could instead go Paladin/Marshal/Outcast Champion and do very well; a Paladin/Marshal can get Divine Might at level 5 via the Skill Focus: Diplomacy jump, putting you very nicely above the power curve, not eating up your level 6 feat slot, and giving you excellent synergy as a Charismatic face/frontliner. Paladin/Marshal mutts don't even need Wisdom, since you multiclass out at 4 from Paladin and skip spellcasting anyway. If you really want to build around Warchanter, you absolutely need to get Inspire Recklessness online by APL8. Otherwise the stat investment (Int for Combat Expertise) pays off too late to be worth it. Does your region having anything that offers access to Snowflake Wardance? You could do a Swashbuckler/Bard/Warchanter that way, getting payoff on the Int investment by taking Deadly Defense and payoff on the Cha with the Wardance.
Banor 07-19-07, 03:01 AM	If you really want to build around Warchanter, you absolutely need to get Inspire Recklessness online by APL8. Yea that what i feared, Warchanter level might be a bit too late :( Maybe i could delay these Outcast champion level a bit to get it. I was thinking when i made the build to get it sooner but I wasnt too sure on the effectiveness of Inspire recklesness. On paper Inspire Recklesness seem insane, is it as good in game? I agree that paladin/marshal is great but i just finish a 2 years long home game where i played a paladin from 9 to 21 so, I kinda want to go in some other way :)
Banor 07-19-07, 03:18 AM	With sooner Warchanter that would look like that 1.Marshal 1 : Power Attack, Minor aura (Motivate Dexterity)* 2.Marshal 2 : Major Aura (Motivate attack)* 3.Bard 1 : Extra Song, Inspire Courage +1* 4.Fighter 1 : Weapon Focus (Glaive)* Stat Boost Int (13) 5.Fighter 2 : Combat Expertise, 6.Outcast Champion 1 : Leadership 7.Warchanter 1 : Inspire Toughness* 8.Warchanter 2 9.Warchanter 3 : Improved Disarm, Inspire recklesness*. 10.OC2 : Stat boost Charisma (18) Avenging Strike* 11.OC3 : Improved Critical (Glaive), Desperate Fury* 12.OC4 : Teamwork* 13.OC5 : Desperate Fury (shared)* 14.Warchanter 4 15.Warchanter 5 : Combine song
Tahldrehlian 07-21-07, 04:17 PM	I was recently coming up with a support-melee character as well... I'm still tweeking here and there... but Marshal 5/Outcast Champion 5/Holy Liberator 5 3 Minor Auras, 2 Major Auras, Will Save Aura from Outcast Champion, Charm/Compulsion Aura from Holy Liberator. The other ideas I'm still toying with are Fighter 2/Marshal 3 for better BAB and Feats... And switching out Holy Liberator for Champion of Correllon (hard to do, but possible), Darkwood Stalker or Wildrunner. There's lots of options... I just don't want to go the Bard route as that creates a dependency on intellgence. It's all about the Charisma and Con :)
Banor 07-21-07, 04:49 PM	I feel that Marshall 5 is a bit of a Waste, Motivate Dex is pretty much the best Minor Aura you can have and so is Motivate Attack, going past Marshall 2 isnt too good execept for Grant Move that might be cool from time to time. Fighter 2/Marshal 3 is great combo, it gives you an addition minor aura in case you need to switch it (Question do you loose the Init bonus of Motivate Dex if you swap it during combat?) I choose to sac a bit on my melee capacities (by taking Bard/Warchanter way) for a much better support (Recklesness) and a bit more Defense (Expertise/Disarm), which i feel, will give you more power than some BAB (I'll be standing at 13 at L15 its not too bad)
jstorrie 07-21-07, 05:14 PM	Marshal 5 allows you have enough auras to cover all situations–Motivate Cha for social encounters, Force of Will or Art of War for combat, and Motivate Dex for anything in between–and Motivate Attack for combat and Resilient Troops for not-combat. It's not a bad breakpoint, if you can deal with losing 2 BAB. If you already need to take Expertise for Warchanter, Improved Trip could be very good for you, with Art of War–and that would shore up your combat utility even when before your PrC abilities kick in. You could do, say– Half-Elf Str 14 Dex 12 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 14 1 Barbarian: Combat Expertise 2 Fighter: Improved Trip 3 Marshal: Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Extra Rage 4 Marshal 5 Marshal 6 Fighter: Intimidating Rage, Weapon Focus: Guisarme 7 Fighter 8 Fighter: Weapon Specialization: Guisarme 9 Marshal: Melee Weapon Mastery 10 Marshal 11 Outcast Champion 12 Outcast Champion: Sociable Personality 13 Outcast Champion 14 Outcast Champion 15 Outcast Champion: Leadership hm. got off track there a little, but still! I like the ability to start a fight with Motivate Dex up for the party init boost, then swap to Motivate Cha to use Intimidating Rage, then to Art of War while you go around tripping everything. Plus you are a good social guy.
myshkingfh 07-21-07, 08:22 PM	Doesn't Power Attack require BAB+1? And isn't Marshal 1 BAB+0?
jstorrie 07-21-07, 08:32 PM	Power Attack only requires Strength 13.
Banor 07-21-07, 08:58 PM	I like your idea, but my question is, if I swap an aura during Combat (from Motivate Dex to AoW), would my group loose the bonus init (thus maybe loosing rank into the init order)? Because if they keep it, i'd probably drop the last two level of Warchanter, and delay Outcast champion a bit to get an additional level of Marshal for Art of War. If not I think I'll stick with the previous build just changing the glaive for a Ranseur (or Guisarme), do you think I'd be better with a Ranseur and disarm or a Guisarme and trip, depsite my so-so strength ?
jstorrie 07-21-07, 09:46 PM	No, they keep it. Initiative is set at the beginning of combat and doesn't change based on your Dexterity changing during combat.
Banor 07-22-07, 08:34 AM	Great then the Art of War thing is indeed awsome, Guisarme and trip here i come :) Thanks a lot for the input :)
Tahldrehlian 07-22-07, 05:00 PM	You mentioned in your first post that you wanted to assist with flanks... Why not have the aura that gives your charisma to flanking damage? While +4-6 is nice on initiatives... it's much nicer on consistant damage output.
Banor 07-22-07, 05:15 PM	I feel this aura a bit lackluster, imo I'll help the rogues more by giving them a good change to start of a fight (most rogues should be able to open up with at least a sneak attack if they go first if not a full via range) and then sitting on the flanks tripping enemies very efficiently than providing a 4-6 damage on attacks. While tripping isnt that hard, with Enlarge, Art of War and improved trip, I'm looking at around +12 modifier without my strength. That will make tripping very reliable. Not mention the extra protection it will offer to the group agaisnt these sort of attacks (grappling mages will have now some sort of chances ... maybe :P)
Dr.Cornelius 07-22-07, 05:42 PM	Half-elf is a valid Role Playing choice but otherwise is a suboptimal race Unless you are shooting for Ruathar / Seeker of the Misty Isle or some other special feature limited to Elves / Half-elves it is not worth giving up a feat and skill points.
jstorrie 07-22-07, 06:42 PM	Half-elves are great faces given that they can take Sociable Personality. They also tend to make the best Outcast Champions, given that half-orcs have Cha penalties and no other LG race can be an Outcast Champion.
Banor 07-22-07, 07:26 PM	I'm not a fan of Half elves but Outcast champion is a pretty solid class and right on the spot for what i wanted to make. While the race is suboptimal, I dont see a PrC that is superior to OC in term of awsomeness :)
jstorrie 07-22-07, 08:29 PM	Outcast Champion is definitely the premier melee-face prestige class. Most of the Paladin-like PrCs are fair for talker-fighters too, though. Divine Crusader, for example, can get you Melee Weapon Mastery without Fighter or Templar levels.
myshkingfh 07-24-07, 09:18 AM	Power Attack only requires Strength 13. I see where my confusion was. You can take it at BAB+0, but you can't use it until BAB+1.