Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Suvarov454 06-24-07, 12:09 PM	like so many before me, I'm building a "batman" wizard as an intellectual exercise. I've decided to make a character whose personality I'd have no problem playing: one who knows a little bit about everything, and insists on sharing his knowledge with others. His role is party buffs, battlefield control, and save-or-suck spells (in that order). I have three competing designs that I would appreciate some comments on. I realize that these builds are very similar to jstorrie's Transmuter (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=11604080&postcount=32), so I'd prefer more of a compare-and-contrast discussion between my builds to avoid retreading the same path. All start with a Grey Elf Diviner with Elf Dilettante as the first level feat, and Cha instead of Str as the dump stat. I'm not wedded to either decision, but I'd like to explain why I made them. In addition to being very flavorful (setting up the "broad but shallow knowledge, jack-of-all-trades" feel of the character), Elf Dilettante saves me 6 skill points that I'd normally spend in a single rank in a bunch of Knowledge skills that I'd never visit again. Dumping Cha instead of Str fits in with the whole "haughty know-it-all" feel of the character, allows him to carry all his own gear in a light encumbrance, and avoids the shadow fodder problem. As I play in Keoland, I've decided to make Necromancy his prohibited school. My first build is more mechanics-based than the second, but all the unrelated PrC's play into the "broad but shallow, jack-of-all-trades" concept. 1: Wizard Scribe Scroll, Elf Dilettante 2: Wizard 3: Wizard Extend Spell (may retrain this to Empower Spell) 4: Wizard 5: Wizard Craft Wondrous Item 6: Wizard Reach Spell 7: Ruathar Word of Friendship, Gift of the Elves 8: Ruathar Low-light Vision, Elfwise 9: Ruathar Star Blessing, Arvandor's Grace, Quicken Spell 10: Argent Adept Force Specialization 11: Argent Adept Force Armor 12: Argent Adept Extended Force, Chain Spell 13: Fate Spinner Spin Fate 14: Fate Spinner Fickle Finger of Fate 15: Fate Spinner Spin Destiny, ??? While this build is a capable batman at any level, the crown jewel (at least to me) is his 12th level Mage Armor buffs. Thanks to Argent Adept, his Greater Mage Armor is AC 8 for 22 hours, and his Mass Mage Armor is AC 6 for the entire party for 22 hours. Yeah, this build gives up a level of caster and it is pretty much a one trick pony, but it is a very nice trick! The second build uses the more knowledge-based PrCs. 1: Wizard Scribe Scroll, Elf Dilettante 2: Wizard 3: Wizard Skill Focus (Knowledge [religion]) 4: Wizard 5: Wizard Craft Wondrous Item 6: Divine Oracle Oracle Domain, Scry Bonus, Extend Spell or Maximize Spell 7: Divine Oracle Prescient Sense, Trap Sense +1 8: Loremaster Secret knowledge of avoidance 9: Loremaster Lore, Quicken Spell 10: Loremaster Applicable knowledge( Sculpt Spell ) 11: Loremaster Bonus Language 12: Loremaster Secret lore of true stamina, Craft Rod 13: Loremaster Greater Lore 14: Loremaster Secrets of inner strength 15: Divine Oracle Divination Enhancment, Chain Spell With this build, I'll craft a number of metamagic rods to improve my spellcasting. I'd be grateful for any recommendations you may have as to the exact metamagic feats, and the order that I take them. Finally, I've got an Archmage build: 1: Wizard Scribe Scroll, Elf Dilettante 2: Wizard 3: Wizard Spell Focus (Enchantment) 4: Wizard 5: Wizard Craft Wondrous Item 6: Wizard Greater Spell Focus (Enchantment) 7: Wizard 8: Wizard 9: Wizard Spell Focus (one of Conjuration, Evocation, or Illusion) 10: Wizard Quicken Spell 11: Wizard 12: Wizard Skill Focus (Spellcraft) 13: Archmage Mastery of Shaping 14: Archmage Arcane Reach 15: Archmage Spell-like Ability, Chain Spell This is a fairly straight-forward mage build that uses DC boosted save-or-suck spells. One might ask what a Diviner is doing focusing on other schools, but I see it as a the way the "broad knowledge, jack-of-all trades" nature of this character manifests itself.
dkay807 06-24-07, 03:09 PM	Firstly, your third build is a bit off. You need to be able to cast 7th level spells in order to become an Archmage... so Wiz 13 would be a must. Having said that, the bottom two are fine... they're very popular, have been done countless times by countless gamers... you can't go wrong with either of them. I'm not a big fan of the first - Argent Savant makes you lose a level in spell progression which is a very big setback. However, the Wizard 6/Ruathar 3 to start is a popular choice that works well for obvious reasons. They all have their strengths and weaknesses - it all comes down to style. If you want a support knowledge-type caster, the loremaster build makes the most sense.
Timlagor 06-24-07, 04:20 PM	Can't see what this has to do with Batman You need to be more specific about attributes. The default min-max grey Elf Wizard dumps both Sterngth and Charisma spending all the points on Int Con and Dex. The ultimate knowledge guy is a Gnome with Trivial Knowledge. Crafting Metamagic Rods isn't much good since you need both the MM Feat and access to the specific Rod ...as well as the Craft Rod Feat.
Frumpkis 06-24-07, 09:22 PM	Can't see what this has to do with Batman I believe the reference alludes to the fact that Batman is a jack-of-all-knowledges, Renaissance man. He's educated himself to know a little something about every topic. You need to be more specific about attributes. The default min-max grey Elf Wizard dumps both Sterngth and Charisma spending all the points on Int Con and Dex. The ultimate knowledge guy is a Gnome with Trivial Knowledge. Agreed on both counts. Crafting Metamagic Rods isn't much good since you need both the MM Feat and access to the specific Rod ...as well as the Craft Rod Feat. Agreed here too. You most likely won't be crafting enough rods to justify taking this feat (unless you plan to heavily invest in Greater Rods). Save yourself the feat slot and just buy your rods.
Suvarov454 06-25-07, 08:09 AM	Thanks for the time on Trivial Knowledge, but you need to spend a skill point in the Knowledge to be eligible to roll for any DC higher than 10. Elf Dilittante lets you try to make any DC untrained. This includes things like Track, UMD, Craft, Profession, and all the rest. As for Craft Rods, isn't the savings on a single Minor Rod of Chain Spell (which can give Greater Mage Armor to the entire party) worth the feat? P.S. "batman" is a term for a wizard who has a spell for every situation that is in use in the Giant In The Playground forums.
Maesto 06-25-07, 09:59 AM	Note that you need _access_ the the lesser metamagic rod of chain spell to actually craft the stupid thing. I complained a bit about it in the LGCS discussion, but got nowhere. Also, greater mage armour isn't a valid spell for chaining. Go and read the chain spell description very carefully. You can only chain spells which go "You, this happens to you. (Make a save)". Anything which requires a ranged touch attack/melee touch attack, or is range touch or personal, or is an area of effect, or anything, can't be chained.
jstorrie 06-25-07, 11:55 AM	Any spell which specifies a single target and has a range greater than touch can be chained. Mage Armor/Greater Mage Armor are out, unfortunately, because they are Range:Touch.
Morgen 06-26-07, 01:38 AM	You'd have to take reach spell.
Suvarov454 06-26-07, 07:42 AM	Yup. I knew that... and then I forgot to read Greater Mage Armor's descriptor! D'oh! OK, what about chaining Unluck and Lesser Telepathic Bond? Or a Lesser Rod of Extend for Greater Mage Armor on the monk, or Mass Mage Armor for the party? No? Well, I have 12 levels to decide on the best use of that feat. Any suggestions?