Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Vanadium 02-20-07, 11:00 AM	Generally, this is a question one asks themselves at the start of their Wizard's career, but I'm hammering this one out at 4th level. Thanks to the Retraining options we now have, I have the option of specializing. I have regretted not doing this ever since I noticed that I never really was casting from all my schools anyway, and it would be helpful to have another spell slot per level. However, there are spells in all schools I see as usable. The only problem is, of course, that even if there are usable spells at all levels, I'd probably get the most utility from a few strong ones, like Solid Fog. If I were to specialize, I would go for Conjurer, most likely. Most of the spells I prepare are conjurations, and there are always good conjurations to pick up so this would be a non-issue. However, I don't know what to drop. Necromancy: Noteworthy spells known: False Life, Command Undead, Ray of Enfeeblement, Scare. Evocation: Magic Missile. I was thinking about getting Gust of Wind and Shatter, though. Scorching Ray is also a possibility for random damage, although Conjuration can cover this. Enchantment: Nothing. I have a spell here or there from a captured spellbook, but I have yet to cast from this. I'm thinking that Enchantment can go, but I am unsure about the other school to drop. Then again, I could just not specialize, not lose any of my spells known, keep my 400 gold, and settle with one less slot per level. Seeing as I am indecisive about this, is specialization a good choice? Is it a good choice for LG in general?
Mommy was an Orc 02-20-07, 11:20 AM	I like Specialization a lot. What I think the real value is that when playing up 1, you have 7 instead of 5 of your two highest level spells - in a 3 combat and out mod, that's very worthwhile. If you're finding it hard to pick a 2nd school after Enchantment, just go for Divination. Enchantment does have two important considerations: Heroism - at higher levels, you can keep this up with Pearls of Power 2 and Rods of Lesser Extend Spell all day. Having an unusual +2 to all saves can be worthwhile(as well as the +2 to all skills/to-hit rolls) A lot of the spells in the Enchantment school are the most powerful 'save or be useless' spells around - Confusion is an area affect 4th level spell that can destroy a BDF encounter as an example. They don't always work, but look at it this way - would you rather the BDF be fighting for you with a Dominate Person(4th) or be Disintegrated(6th)
UMiskatonic 02-20-07, 12:31 PM	I'm a fan of specialization as well. There's no great answer here for school. Think about who you play with, and what kind of spells are fun for you. Pound for pound, I think evocation's weakest, although a whole lotta fun.
Sieylianna 02-20-07, 12:31 PM	I don't like specialization for pure wizards in LG. Yes, it gives a bonus spell per level, but it also seriously restricts learning new spells and can also impact your crafting opportunities. If you aren't going to take any crafting feats beyond scribe scroll, it's not a big deal. Ed
Mommy was an Orc 02-20-07, 01:04 PM	I don't like specialization for pure wizards in LG. Yes, it gives a bonus spell per level, but it also seriously restricts learning new spells and can also impact your crafting opportunities. If you aren't going to take any crafting feats beyond scribe scroll, it's not a big deal. Ed Unless you restrict Transmutation for who knows what reason, CWI works well enough. And Loremaster has UMD for scrolls if that's an eventual issue. A Wizard can only cast so many spells per day - being able to fire off an additional 1-8 spells assuming there's a max of 3 combats in a day makes a big difference. If you're a 5th level Wizard playing APL 6, you can take 2 castings of Haste and an additional choice instead of taking 1 casting of Haste and something else as an example. At higher APLs, that also starts to translate into spells that can be Quickened at even APLs without losing the ability to cast 2 top tier spells for each combat.
Randall Montgomery 02-20-07, 01:55 PM	I considered specializing when I first created my Wizard, and considered it again with the retraining options were announced, but I just can't justify giving up two schools of magic to get an extra spell/level each day. Off the top of my head, in addition to the spells you mentioned, dropping Necromancy would eliminate spells such as Enervation and Horrid Wilting, Evocation loses Fireball and Cone of Cold, Illusion would eliminate Invisibility and Phantasimal Killer, Enchantment would eliminate Charm Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and Power Word: Stun, Transmutation eliminates all your stat-boost spells, as well as Disintigrate, Evard's Black Tentacles, and Telekenesis, Conjuration eliminates all the Orb spells, and Abjuration eliminates Mage Armor, Shield, Dispel Magic, and Break Enchantment. And you can't choose Divination as a banned school according to RAW, so I won't even mention it. If you play regularly with other spellcasters, you can have them cover the spells you lose out of, and would be better off going specialist. In all other cases, I think losing any one of these schools might be worth the extra spells/day, but having to cut two just eliminates too much of the wizards versatility.
UMiskatonic 02-20-07, 02:18 PM	And there you have it Vanadium. Specialization means more power, less versatility. Overall, I think it's a pretty balanced choice, because there is no clear, best option. Kudos to the design team for that one. You'll have to just decide which factor is more important for you.
jstorrie 02-20-07, 04:33 PM	I am in favour of specialization, although I tend to always drop the same two schools (evocation and enchantment). Complete Mage makes necromancy, divination, and transmutation much more attractive, with its 'specialist' feats.
Frumpkis 02-20-07, 06:37 PM	.....Off the top of my head, in addition to the spells you mentioned, dropping Necromancy would eliminate spells such as Enervation and Horrid Wilting, Evocation loses Fireball and Cone of Cold, Illusion would eliminate Invisibility and Phantasimal Killer, Enchantment would eliminate Charm Person, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, and Power Word: Stun, Transmutation eliminates all your stat-boost spells, as well as Disintigrate, Evard's Black Tentacles, and Telekenesis, Conjuration eliminates all the Orb spells, and Abjuration eliminates Mage Armor, Shield, Dispel Magic, and Break Enchantment. Just a small note: both Evard's and Mage Armour actually fall under the Conjuration school. Of course, you can always specialize by being a Diviner. That way, you only have to face the agony of banning 1 school instead of 2. IMHO, Evocation and Abjuration are the easiest to ban. Evocation's schtick has largely been supplanted by Conjuration in D&D3.5. As for Abjuration, I find there's a lot of duplication with the cleric's spell list, and really, given the choice between the two, the party cleric should be the one preparing Abjuration spells over the wizzie. I guess Enchantment's also a good candidate for banning, but I like my Confusion, Feeblemind, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Hold Monster, and Dominate Person too much. :D Especially Feeblemind - nothing shuts down arcane casters better (except for a targeted Silence spell, but then the save DC isn't as good; and area Silences can be easily walked out of).
evilaustintom 02-21-07, 03:47 PM	I am a fan of diviners in LG. I usually opt for giving up enchantment, since there are so many encounters that mind-affecting spells are not effective (and if you're not focused on getting the DCs that high, the all-or-nothing way that school works tends to make it low on my list of priorities). Of course, it really depends on your preferred style of play, but I always find divination spells to be a good 'extra' spell to have each level. Master's Touch or Critical Strike (1st), See Invisibility (2nd)...heck, Greater Arcane Sight may be high level, but it lets you effectively see all illusions, every buff spell that is currently active (so you know where to throw you greater dispel magic). I also like to have options 'out of combat'. Leaving an empty slot with a wizard is an easy way to get a last-minute scry or locate person spell that you didn't think to prep originally. It seems like most schools still have some really good spell that you give up, even if you're character doesn't care for the rest of the spells in the school. Spells like Contingency, False Life, Dispel Magic...they are highly useful to ANY caster, and don't necessarily match the use of the other spells in their 'school'. You make a sacrifice specializing any way you go. It is just a matter of really deciding if you are willing to give up the spells you're considering. I don't think there is a wrong choice here. It really is all about your style of play, as well as your PC build (feats/race). I played my necromancer with an enchanter quite a bit in my early LG career - we had a lot of fun role-playing that. It was also quite versatile in battles. Like fighters, you usually build a caster with a certain 'tactic' in mind...blaster, buffer, info-gathering, generalist, etc. Aim for one or two styles, and odds are, you'll still play with another spellcaster who has a completely different style. It all works out in the end (usually). Tom Thowe
DuctShuiTengu 02-22-07, 12:57 PM	I think it depends on how much you plan on using expendables. If you're planning on using a lot of scrolls and wands, then you're probably losing more by denying yourself access to schools of magic than you'd be gaining from the extra spells. On the other hand, if you're going to be casting your spells from memory, you may, as MWaO suggested, need the extra spells at those higher spell-levels. Of course, there are downsides to relying on expendables as well. Scrolls and Wands continue to cast the spells in them at the level you crafted them no matter how much higher your Caster Level gets (though this may not matter depending on the spell in question); wands only work for spells of 4th level or less. Really, it's a question of which you think will hamper your character less and what fits them better.
Vanadium 02-23-07, 06:29 PM	Gah, this is like the third time I've begun this thing. Came here the first time, had the conclusion that I wouldn't specialize. Then I remembered Metamagic School Focus (or whatever the reduced metamagic cost 3 times/day feat in CM is). This is a powerful thing for me, as it would be three free sculpted Conjurations every day, and that, quite frankly to say, kicks ass. Then I got to thinking that most of the upper Conjurations don't really benefit from sculpting or extending, and I'd have plenty of low slots to do that to my greases and glitterdusts and whatever else. At about that time, I remembered just how kickass Divination is, and that there is at least one good spell in it per level, unlike even good schools like Conjuration which have some so-so levels. Thus, my bonus spell would never be wasted. I was worried that I would be 'wasting' a free spell every level, but I realize that if I didn't do this, I probably wouldn't be using Divination at all, and that's just sad. That, and my character wouldn't make much sense without it. I mean, he's going to be a Divine Oracle/Loremaster. It makes so much sense its painful. At about time, I realized that if I specialized my Wizard and didn't choose Divination, he'd probably materialize out of thin air and take a shot at my nads. So, Diviner dropping what? Enchantment seems like its more usable than Evocation, so I guess Evocation is gone. I mean, I can always get access to those lower level spells through Use Magic Deviced scrolls or Shadow Evocation or something, right?
Southernskies 02-23-07, 06:48 PM	There is another drawback to specialising: One of your Two free spells every wizard level has to be of that school. If you pick a school with few useful spells, then you're wasting those free learnt spells.
jhorred 02-23-07, 07:36 PM	I specialized my wizard. I traded Necromancy and Illusiuon spells to be an Evoker. I think it's worth it. I don't have a huge spell book and I tend heavily toward blasting with some other useful tools. In our group we also have a diviner and an illusionist.
Mommy was an Orc 02-23-07, 08:00 PM	Something I just noticed - you can retrain every level. On the odd levels, you're a specialist. On the even ones, you're a generalist. I'd swat someone who tried that in a home game though.
bhale187 02-23-07, 08:23 PM	Something I just noticed - you can retrain every level. On the odd levels, you're a specialist. On the even ones, you're a generalist. I'd swat someone who tried that in a home game though. *sigh* Just one of the many cans of worms retraining has opened......
Lupo 02-23-07, 08:38 PM	Something I just noticed - you can retrain every level. On the odd levels, you're a specialist. On the even ones, you're a generalist. I'd swat someone who tried that in a home game though. just train out of specialization around level 7, there the overall impact of one additional spell per level is starting to loose vs. versatility to have all schools available. anyway this seems to smell heavily like gouda :P any player who is doing a specialist - wizard - specialist flip-flop should be closely watched and be rewarded with a job in a dairy ;) ciao martin m.
LGMoses 02-23-07, 09:03 PM	Dropping specialization does sound sort of cheezy. I don't think you can multiclass as a normal wizard and a specialist wizard. Thought I heard someone mention that. I don't mind the idea of switching into or out of specialization cuz both of them have consequences. If you switch into specialization, then your prohibited school spells go poof. If you switch out, then stuff opens back up. Also, I'm certain you can't drop divination as a school so thats not an option vanadium. Thats in the phb. Since you're a 4th level spellcaster you can choose very simply what happens. Look at your spellbook and see if their are two schools of magic that you aren't using at all. Otherwise, at this point in time I would not become a specialist. You'll regret not being able to cast certain spells for sure.
King Kashue 02-23-07, 09:07 PM	If you pick a school with few useful spells, then you're wasting those free learnt spells. Um...why would anyone pick a school with few useful spells? That defeats the whole purpose :P "Cars are a good way to get places, but if you get one without an engine, it isn't as useful" :D
King Kashue 02-23-07, 09:09 PM	Also, I'm certain you can't drop divination as a school so thats not an option vanadium. Thats in the phb. You misread him. He's looking at a specialist Diviner, dropping another school (as a diviner, you only need to drop one other school).
King Kashue 02-23-07, 09:14 PM	Oh yeah, trifecta posting (I dislike doing that, but I dislike multiple topic/original poster replies even more)... That, and my character wouldn't make much sense without it. I mean, he's going to be a Divine Oracle/Loremaster. It makes so much sense its painful. Heh, I'm wondering how close he is to my Half Orc 1st Wizard - Still Spell 2nd Wizard 3rd Wizard - Skill Focus (Know: Religion) 4th Wizard 5th Wizard - Quicken Spell 6th Divine Oracle - Craft Wonderous Item 7th Divine Oracle 8th Loremaster 9th Loremaster - Spell Focus (Trans.) 10th Loremaster 11th Loremaster 12th Loremaster - Spell Focus (Evocation) 13th Loremaster 14th Archmage 15th Archmage - Spell Penetration
LGMoses 02-24-07, 01:06 AM	You misread him. He's looking at a specialist Diviner, dropping another school (as a diviner, you only need to drop one other school). Doh! hey, specialist diviners rock. Lots of divining the end of modules.