Tripping Marshal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Tripping Marshal [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rabbidmonkie
12-04-06, 06:34 PM Human Marshal 9/Monk 2/Barbarian 2/Hexblade 2
Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15

1: Marshal 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Motivate Strength
2: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
3: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, EWP: Spiked Chain
4: Marshal 2: Motivate Attack: Cha 16
5: Marshal 3: Motivate Dexterity
6: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage
7: Marshal 4
8: Marshal 5: Cha 17: Motivate Charisma, Resilent Troops,
9: Hexblade 1: Power Attack
10: Hexblade 2
11: Marshal 6
12: Marshal 7: Cha 18: Motivate Intelligence, Improved Bullrush
13: Marshal 8
14: Marshal 9: Demand Fortitude, Motivate Care
15: Barbarian 2: Shock Trooper

I like this build a lot as a battlefield control tank. At level 6, assuming he has Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Cloak +2 and he's Raging, he'll essentially have a 26 Strength for purposes of Trip checks or Grappling. That's basically better than anyone else around(except for other builds that rely on Strength checks who happen to be near him)

This is the guy who does a lot with grapples and trips without necessarily being pointy while doing it. He functions as the party battlefield control tank - the enemy can't exactly ignore him doing his trip and grapple attacks as he tends to succeed at both of them, even on targets he shouldn't. He's going to have extremely good saves and there's nothing preventing him from focusing on AC except if he's raging. And out of combat, he goes from being a decent to a phenomenal face once he gets to Marshal 5 at level 8.

There is the somewhat uncomfortable aspect of being a build with Monk and Barbarian in it - you can swap out those levels with Fighter and take Improved Unarmed Strike/Improved Grapple for roughly the same effect - Combat Reflexes is a nice addition, but not essential. Or you could add Fighter 1/Exotic Weapon Master 1 and only go Marshal 7 so as to be able to do more things with that Spiked Chain.
~Mommy was an Orc
i saw this build and i liked it, i wanted to know if anyone had any ideas, or is it good to go?
is the ability to trip and grapple important?
DuctShuiTengu
12-04-06, 09:42 PM Why Marshal 9? Do you really want/need the 5 minor auras and 3 major ones that badly? I wouldn't recommend going above 4 Levels of Marshal (and I'd probably stop with less than 4.)

gets you a minor aura (I recommend Art of War)
gets you a major aura to go with the minor one
gets you a second minor aura for situations where the other isn't as useful (Motivate Charisma, Wisdom, or Dexterity seem to be the three most popular out of combat ones.)
gets you the ability to grant your allies a move action once per day

Investing another 5 levels for a +1 to the major aura, an extra grand move action, and a few more auras that will see less and less use seems a waste.

While I wouldn't recommend 3 Hexblade just for Mettle, since you have two already, it seems a shame to pull up just short of it. Besides, those 5+ levels of Marshall that you shouldn't be taking need to go somewhere.

Beyond that, I'd give serious consideration to at least a couple levels of Fighter for the bonus feats. Maybe finish up with some Exotic Weapon Master? Flurry of Strikes gets you an extra attack, Exotic Reach keeps cover from interfering with your AoOs, and Trip Attack nets an extra +2 to your trip attacks (though I expect most things will either be too weak to stand up to trip attempts without this trick, or too big to trip even with it.)
Cyber_Arch
12-04-06, 10:25 PM I have seen a couple tripping marshals. It is a great concept.

I have not seen a build that mixes barbarian and monk....I did not think that was valid due to the alignment restrictions. Is that possible? If it is possible, do the extra base movement from each class stack?

Thanks

John R
Britt
12-04-06, 10:29 PM My advice: don't mix barbarian and monk; it's stupid cheesy. Make it just Marshal/Hex/Monk, as that can have a character background that makes sense.
rabbidmonkie
12-04-06, 11:36 PM so you sugest marshal4/monk2/hex3?/barb2?/and fighter?/exoticwep3
what feet should i get with the fighter? (keep in mind i am kinda new at D&D)

or if anyone has any other class sugestions, i am compleatly open. I want a spike chain guy, but i would like something more original then pure fighter. i read somewhere that monk5/shadowdancer with a spikechain worked, is that somehting to look into?

Also I wanted to know if scout/shadow dancer was good. just jumping around to get the skirmish ahd using a bow the enire time, or would there be a better class for that?
DuctShuiTengu
12-05-06, 02:28 AM so you sugest marshal4/monk2/hex3?/barb2?/and fighter?/exoticwep3
what feet should i get with the fighter? (keep in mind i am kinda new at D&D)

or if anyone has any other class sugestions, i am compleatly open. I want a spike chain guy, but i would like something more original then pure fighter. i read somewhere that monk5/shadowdancer with a spikechain worked, is that somehting to look into?

Also I wanted to know if scout/shadow dancer was good. just jumping around to get the skirmish ahd using a bow the enire time, or would there be a better class for that?

As I said, Marshal 4 is the most I'd go. At that point, you've only lost a single point of BAB for it, you have two minor auras, a major aura, and the ability to grant a move action once per day. 1 and 2 are also popular levels at which to exit the class.

If you're going Hexblade (and with a charisma score that high, it's probably a good investment) then I'd go with 3 levels (4 if you want to hit a PrC that requires spellcasting). Mettle combines nicely with the good Fort and Will saves this character should have, and the Charisma to saves versus spells is useful as well.

I have to agree with Britt that at least from a thematics perspective, combining Barbarian and Monk seems a bit silly. Not to mention that about the only thing you're really getting from Monk is Improved Grapple and better Reflex saves (Combat Reflexes gives you 0 extra AoOs with 10 Dex, and Evasion only works in light or no armor (with that dex, you're going to want heavy)). So I'd probably drop Monk, or at least cut back to a single level of it (hadn't noticed the lack of Dexterity before.)

The lack of dex also makes the second level of Barbarian of dubious value as well. It keeps you from being sneak-attacked due to being flatfooted, but doesn't actually help your AC any.

2 levels of Fighter nets you 2 bonus feats. If you want to go EWM, you're going to need Weapon Focus. For the other, it depends on where we end up taking that level, and what else we do with this character, though I'd probably use it to move some of the other feats up to earlier levels.

I'm not sure I'd necessarily go all three levels of EWM (there's tricks that you could take for all of them, but by the time you get there, you may have better things to do with those levels.)

So, that leaves us with Marshal 1-4/Hexblade 3/Barbarian 1-2/Monk 0-1/Fighter 2/EWM 1-3, with up to 7 more levels to play around with (depending on which of the maybes get included we have anywhere from 8 levels to 15 there.)

Occult Slayer could be a good class for this character, though it's another one that can be tricky from a flavor perspective. If you don't mind making the character a Half-Elf, Outcast Champion is another possibility.

So, not exactly a fully planned-out build, but it's at least some ideas to play around with.
Haro
12-05-06, 02:57 AM Fritz, my Tripping Marshal (whom Britt played with at SRDU) just took a level of Bard, going into Warchanter. Being a second line melee character that can Inspire Recklessness etc. will hopefully be pretty fun.

I'll post a build later...

Joe
Britt
12-05-06, 02:58 AM I still recommend more Marshal. I had a cohort that was 9 (I think) Marshal with a couple of Bard levels and the versatility was amazing; you are useful in ANY situation, helping the party with whatever is needed at that moment.

I think you should do something like Marshal 7, Hexblade 3, Fighter 2, EWM 3. Move some points around to get a 12 Dex, look for mithral full plate at some point in your career, take Combat Reflexes late in levels, and get Gloves of Dex +4 at some point for 4 AoOs. Alternatively, you could give up on some of the combat feats and Marshal 9, Hexblade 4, EWM 2.

Those aren't the most twinked out builds you could make, but they are quite decent, avoid cheesy level dipping, and just feel cool. I don't like level dipping purely for abilities. I've done it and regretted it. I would now rather have a cool concept with fewer total classes.
Britt
12-05-06, 03:00 AM Fritz, my Tripping Marshal (whom Britt played with at SRDU) just took a level of Bard, going into Warchanter. Being a second line melee character that can Inspire Recklessness etc. will hopefully be pretty fun.
I like Fritz; he's fun to play with.
Mommy was an Orc
12-05-06, 11:34 AM Why Marshal 9? Do you really want/need the 5 minor auras and 3 major ones that badly? I wouldn't recommend going above 4 Levels of Marshal (and I'd probably stop with less than 4.)

The point of the build is that it serves two functions well:
Support character. Marshal is a pretty powerful, flexible support class. Having more levels isn't a bad thing - 7 levels boosts the Major Aura. The character by the way, doesn't need Art of War as Motivate Strength serves roughly the same purpose for the build. People vastly underestimate just how good a well-built Marshal is to a party. This particular build will allow a party to defeat most non-combat challenges easily - parties near him will eventually get a +7 to almost any skill he thinks necessary.

Battlefield control tank. At the same time this character is providing a strong support component, he can also stand on the front lines and protect the casters. His effective strength for purposes of Trips is phenomenal at high levels.

If you're at all uncomfortable with the Monk/Barbarian, just swap out the Monk levels for Fighter levels. In some ways, this is better - you can then take the level of Barbarian at 1st for the extra hit points and Extra Rage at 3rd.
paigeoliver
12-08-06, 05:00 AM Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for.

Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone.
Lupo
12-08-06, 05:56 AM Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for.

Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone.

yea IF your buddies are around, as a whip does not get any AoO, it does not threathen ;)

and you can't trip someone when he is standing up. you may ready an action for the moment he has completed his "standing up" action, but that's it.

ciiao

martin m.
paigeoliver
12-08-06, 08:11 AM Correct. I specifically chose an underpowered weapon (whip) as opposed to using a spiked chain. 20 charisma marshals are cheesy enough without putting a spiked chain in their hands. Plus I love the 15' reach.
Mommy was an Orc
12-08-06, 10:31 AM Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for.

Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone.

In most cases, they're roughly equal or Art of War is superior. But I like Motivate Strength for this character for three specific reasons:
It is abundantly clear that Motivate Strength applies when defending against strength check based attacks. Not so for Art of War.

It boosts Strength - lots of mods have weird little Climb/Swim/Jump checks required or break DCs. As you might note, this guy has a decent Strength and lots of skill points.

It isn't as popular as Art of War - if you run into an Art of War Marshal, you stack.
DuctShuiTengu
12-09-06, 12:52 AM It isn't as popular as Art of War - if you run into an Art of War Marshal, you stack.

Are you sure about that? It specificly states that "All bonuses granted by a marshal's auras are circumstance bonuses that do not stack with each other." Given that, I'm pretty sure you'd only get one bonus or the other to your trip.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rabbidmonkie 12-04-06, 06:34 PM	Human Marshal 9/Monk 2/Barbarian 2/Hexblade 2 Str 14, Dex 10, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 15 1: Marshal 1: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Motivate Strength 2: Monk 1: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple 3: Monk 2: Combat Reflexes, EWP: Spiked Chain 4: Marshal 2: Motivate Attack: Cha 16 5: Marshal 3: Motivate Dexterity 6: Barbarian 1: Extra Rage 7: Marshal 4 8: Marshal 5: Cha 17: Motivate Charisma, Resilent Troops, 9: Hexblade 1: Power Attack 10: Hexblade 2 11: Marshal 6 12: Marshal 7: Cha 18: Motivate Intelligence, Improved Bullrush 13: Marshal 8 14: Marshal 9: Demand Fortitude, Motivate Care 15: Barbarian 2: Shock Trooper I like this build a lot as a battlefield control tank. At level 6, assuming he has Gauntlets of Ogre Power and Cloak +2 and he's Raging, he'll essentially have a 26 Strength for purposes of Trip checks or Grappling. That's basically better than anyone else around(except for other builds that rely on Strength checks who happen to be near him) This is the guy who does a lot with grapples and trips without necessarily being pointy while doing it. He functions as the party battlefield control tank - the enemy can't exactly ignore him doing his trip and grapple attacks as he tends to succeed at both of them, even on targets he shouldn't. He's going to have extremely good saves and there's nothing preventing him from focusing on AC except if he's raging. And out of combat, he goes from being a decent to a phenomenal face once he gets to Marshal 5 at level 8. There is the somewhat uncomfortable aspect of being a build with Monk and Barbarian in it - you can swap out those levels with Fighter and take Improved Unarmed Strike/Improved Grapple for roughly the same effect - Combat Reflexes is a nice addition, but not essential. Or you could add Fighter 1/Exotic Weapon Master 1 and only go Marshal 7 so as to be able to do more things with that Spiked Chain. ~Mommy was an Orc i saw this build and i liked it, i wanted to know if anyone had any ideas, or is it good to go? is the ability to trip and grapple important?
DuctShuiTengu 12-04-06, 09:42 PM	Why Marshal 9? Do you really want/need the 5 minor auras and 3 major ones that badly? I wouldn't recommend going above 4 Levels of Marshal (and I'd probably stop with less than 4.) gets you a minor aura (I recommend Art of War) gets you a major aura to go with the minor one gets you a second minor aura for situations where the other isn't as useful (Motivate Charisma, Wisdom, or Dexterity seem to be the three most popular out of combat ones.) gets you the ability to grant your allies a move action once per day Investing another 5 levels for a +1 to the major aura, an extra grand move action, and a few more auras that will see less and less use seems a waste. While I wouldn't recommend 3 Hexblade just for Mettle, since you have two already, it seems a shame to pull up just short of it. Besides, those 5+ levels of Marshall that you shouldn't be taking need to go somewhere. Beyond that, I'd give serious consideration to at least a couple levels of Fighter for the bonus feats. Maybe finish up with some Exotic Weapon Master? Flurry of Strikes gets you an extra attack, Exotic Reach keeps cover from interfering with your AoOs, and Trip Attack nets an extra +2 to your trip attacks (though I expect most things will either be too weak to stand up to trip attempts without this trick, or too big to trip even with it.)
Cyber_Arch 12-04-06, 10:25 PM	I have seen a couple tripping marshals. It is a great concept. I have not seen a build that mixes barbarian and monk....I did not think that was valid due to the alignment restrictions. Is that possible? If it is possible, do the extra base movement from each class stack? Thanks John R
Britt 12-04-06, 10:29 PM	My advice: don't mix barbarian and monk; it's stupid cheesy. Make it just Marshal/Hex/Monk, as that can have a character background that makes sense.
rabbidmonkie 12-04-06, 11:36 PM	so you sugest marshal4/monk2/hex3?/barb2?/and fighter?/exoticwep3 what feet should i get with the fighter? (keep in mind i am kinda new at D&D) or if anyone has any other class sugestions, i am compleatly open. I want a spike chain guy, but i would like something more original then pure fighter. i read somewhere that monk5/shadowdancer with a spikechain worked, is that somehting to look into? Also I wanted to know if scout/shadow dancer was good. just jumping around to get the skirmish ahd using a bow the enire time, or would there be a better class for that?
DuctShuiTengu 12-05-06, 02:28 AM	so you sugest marshal4/monk2/hex3?/barb2?/and fighter?/exoticwep3 what feet should i get with the fighter? (keep in mind i am kinda new at D&D) or if anyone has any other class sugestions, i am compleatly open. I want a spike chain guy, but i would like something more original then pure fighter. i read somewhere that monk5/shadowdancer with a spikechain worked, is that somehting to look into? Also I wanted to know if scout/shadow dancer was good. just jumping around to get the skirmish ahd using a bow the enire time, or would there be a better class for that? As I said, Marshal 4 is the most I'd go. At that point, you've only lost a single point of BAB for it, you have two minor auras, a major aura, and the ability to grant a move action once per day. 1 and 2 are also popular levels at which to exit the class. If you're going Hexblade (and with a charisma score that high, it's probably a good investment) then I'd go with 3 levels (4 if you want to hit a PrC that requires spellcasting). Mettle combines nicely with the good Fort and Will saves this character should have, and the Charisma to saves versus spells is useful as well. I have to agree with Britt that at least from a thematics perspective, combining Barbarian and Monk seems a bit silly. Not to mention that about the only thing you're really getting from Monk is Improved Grapple and better Reflex saves (Combat Reflexes gives you 0 extra AoOs with 10 Dex, and Evasion only works in light or no armor (with that dex, you're going to want heavy)). So I'd probably drop Monk, or at least cut back to a single level of it (hadn't noticed the lack of Dexterity before.) The lack of dex also makes the second level of Barbarian of dubious value as well. It keeps you from being sneak-attacked due to being flatfooted, but doesn't actually help your AC any. 2 levels of Fighter nets you 2 bonus feats. If you want to go EWM, you're going to need Weapon Focus. For the other, it depends on where we end up taking that level, and what else we do with this character, though I'd probably use it to move some of the other feats up to earlier levels. I'm not sure I'd necessarily go all three levels of EWM (there's tricks that you could take for all of them, but by the time you get there, you may have better things to do with those levels.) So, that leaves us with Marshal 1-4/Hexblade 3/Barbarian 1-2/Monk 0-1/Fighter 2/EWM 1-3, with up to 7 more levels to play around with (depending on which of the maybes get included we have anywhere from 8 levels to 15 there.) Occult Slayer could be a good class for this character, though it's another one that can be tricky from a flavor perspective. If you don't mind making the character a Half-Elf, Outcast Champion is another possibility. So, not exactly a fully planned-out build, but it's at least some ideas to play around with.
Haro 12-05-06, 02:57 AM	Fritz, my Tripping Marshal (whom Britt played with at SRDU) just took a level of Bard, going into Warchanter. Being a second line melee character that can Inspire Recklessness etc. will hopefully be pretty fun. I'll post a build later... Joe
Britt 12-05-06, 02:58 AM	I still recommend more Marshal. I had a cohort that was 9 (I think) Marshal with a couple of Bard levels and the versatility was amazing; you are useful in ANY situation, helping the party with whatever is needed at that moment. I think you should do something like Marshal 7, Hexblade 3, Fighter 2, EWM 3. Move some points around to get a 12 Dex, look for mithral full plate at some point in your career, take Combat Reflexes late in levels, and get Gloves of Dex +4 at some point for 4 AoOs. Alternatively, you could give up on some of the combat feats and Marshal 9, Hexblade 4, EWM 2. Those aren't the most twinked out builds you could make, but they are quite decent, avoid cheesy level dipping, and just feel cool. I don't like level dipping purely for abilities. I've done it and regretted it. I would now rather have a cool concept with fewer total classes.
Britt 12-05-06, 03:00 AM	Fritz, my Tripping Marshal (whom Britt played with at SRDU) just took a level of Bard, going into Warchanter. Being a second line melee character that can Inspire Recklessness etc. will hopefully be pretty fun. I like Fritz; he's fun to play with.
Mommy was an Orc 12-05-06, 11:34 AM	Why Marshal 9? Do you really want/need the 5 minor auras and 3 major ones that badly? I wouldn't recommend going above 4 Levels of Marshal (and I'd probably stop with less than 4.) The point of the build is that it serves two functions well: Support character. Marshal is a pretty powerful, flexible support class. Having more levels isn't a bad thing - 7 levels boosts the Major Aura. The character by the way, doesn't need Art of War as Motivate Strength serves roughly the same purpose for the build. People vastly underestimate just how good a well-built Marshal is to a party. This particular build will allow a party to defeat most non-combat challenges easily - parties near him will eventually get a +7 to almost any skill he thinks necessary. Battlefield control tank. At the same time this character is providing a strong support component, he can also stand on the front lines and protect the casters. His effective strength for purposes of Trips is phenomenal at high levels. If you're at all uncomfortable with the Monk/Barbarian, just swap out the Monk levels for Fighter levels. In some ways, this is better - you can then take the level of Barbarian at 1st for the extra hit points and Extra Rage at 3rd.
paigeoliver 12-08-06, 05:00 AM	Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for. Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone.
Lupo 12-08-06, 05:56 AM	Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for. Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone. yea IF your buddies are around, as a whip does not get any AoO, it does not threathen ;) and you can't trip someone when he is standing up. you may ready an action for the moment he has completed his "standing up" action, but that's it. ciiao martin m.
paigeoliver 12-08-06, 08:11 AM	Correct. I specifically chose an underpowered weapon (whip) as opposed to using a spiked chain. 20 charisma marshals are cheesy enough without putting a spiked chain in their hands. Plus I love the 15' reach.
Mommy was an Orc 12-08-06, 10:31 AM	Art of War defeats motivate STR though as there is very little else that motivate STR is good for. Plus, following up the trip with a disarm is even better than smacking them. I have a trip marshall who uses a whip instead of a spiked chain and I rarely see a bad guy come back from being prone and disarmed. Standing up and picking up items BOTH provoke AOOs, so it is like DOUBLE tripping someone. In most cases, they're roughly equal or Art of War is superior. But I like Motivate Strength for this character for three specific reasons: It is abundantly clear that Motivate Strength applies when defending against strength check based attacks. Not so for Art of War. It boosts Strength - lots of mods have weird little Climb/Swim/Jump checks required or break DCs. As you might note, this guy has a decent Strength and lots of skill points. It isn't as popular as Art of War - if you run into an Art of War Marshal, you stack.
DuctShuiTengu 12-09-06, 12:52 AM	It isn't as popular as Art of War - if you run into an Art of War Marshal, you stack. Are you sure about that? It specificly states that "All bonuses granted by a marshal's auras are circumstance bonuses that do not stack with each other." Given that, I'm pretty sure you'd only get one bonus or the other to your trip.