Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gaelforcwynd 02-19-07, 04:23 AM	I'm still tinkering with sword using Clerics. I have a few queries regarding various aspects of this idea. First of all, in the LGCS 597, can all feats listed as Open be taken at 1st level, providing you fulfill all other criteria? Or must you be 3rd level or higher? Second, in the LG Deities v2.0, the Demigod Mayaheine's favoured weapon is a bastard sword(m). What does the (m) after the bastard sword mean? Does it mean that if you take the War domain, you only gain Martial Weapon Proficiency(bastard sword) and Weapon Focus(bastard sword) and not Exotic Weapon Proficiency(bastard sword)? Would I need to take Exotic Weapon Proficiency(bastard sword) on top of choosing the War domain in order to wield the bastard sword without penalties? Thirdly, if I worship Kelanen and gain Martial Weapon Proficiency(greatsword) and Weapon Focus(greatsword) and use a buckler at the same time as wielding the greatsword, can I use Improved Buckler Defence to keep the shield bonus, but I still suffer a -1 penalty to attack? If so, is there any feat such as Two Weapon Fighting that would reduce the attack penalty for wielding a greatsword while using a buckler?
Alpha_Nerd 02-19-07, 04:26 AM	Yes all open feats can be taken at first. Yes you only get martial proficiency and would need Exotic Weapon Proficiency to use it 1-handed but you can wield it two-handed no problem. If you take Improved Buckler Defense and use it wielding a greatsword you get the shield bonus but suffer -1 to hit, and as far as I know there is no way to get rid of that penalty.
Munkwunk 02-19-07, 01:57 PM	Alpha Nerd is correct on all points. I just thought I'd throw in that my own half-orc cleric of Mayaheine uses the bastard sword two-handed and has never bothered picking up the Exotic feat. If you get down the road and discover your AC is a bit lacking, try to pick up an animated heavy shield.
GenghisBob 02-20-07, 03:21 AM	Nothing worng with jsut taking the (m) Bastard sword, double handed power attacks when diving powering or rightiousmighted can be sweet. I assume you want a combat cleric? Mayahiene is an ideal choice coming from perth as you are in Perrenland. War + Nobility domains ... ALterantively you may consider the Vathris Long spear, Destruction + War domains with Smite, and Extra smite, and oh some MOre smite ;) On Ratik front, if you travel to the eastern states try a Kord Great Sword, Strength + Competiion domains (or luck) or even a Norebo cleric with Competion and Courage domains with a suitable 2 handed Weapon (dagger jsut dont seem right for this aspect of Noreboo) Then again you could mix in Pious templer with any of those builds.... Or Barbarain 1 (Extra Rage / Reckless Rage etc) with the Ratik Gods... Dont worry about the shields just get Animated, and use a buckler for inital first round defnece until you get access to the Animated. Regards GB
Gaelforcwynd 02-20-07, 03:56 AM	Thanks for all the help guys. That answers everything. I like Mayaheine, but if I'm going to wield a bastard sword two-handed, I might as well worship Kelanen and use a greatsword. I like the idea of an animated shield too. I won't waste a feat and take a -1 penalty to attack just for AC +1. Can you cast spells unhindered while using an animated shield, even if it's larger than a buckler? I have one other question. For the feat Innate Spell, it says you need to permanently devote a spell slot 8 levels higher than the spell you wish to use as the spell-like ability. How is this possible? If you were to take a 1st level spell as a spell-like ability, you would need to be able to cast 9th level spells. I know I must have read it wrong, but I don't have access to that literature anymore and am only going on memory. Someone enlighten me please. :)
Gallaway 02-20-07, 08:21 PM	Thanks for all the help guys. That answers everything. I like Mayaheine, but if I'm going to wield a bastard sword two-handed, I might as well worship Kelanen and use a greatsword. I like the idea of an animated shield too. I won't waste a feat and take a -1 penalty to attack just for AC +1. Can you cast spells unhindered while using an animated shield, even if it's larger than a buckler? I have one other question. For the feat Innate Spell, it says you need to permanently devote a spell slot 8 levels higher than the spell you wish to use as the spell-like ability. How is this possible? If you were to take a 1st level spell as a spell-like ability, you would need to be able to cast 9th level spells. I know I must have read it wrong, but I don't have access to that literature anymore and am only going on memory. Someone enlighten me please. :) If you go Mayaheine remember you only have deity weapon focus two handed .. you lose the focus when you swing it one handed as it becomes exotic. You are right about the buckler if its just a plain buckler ... but generally if you use a buckler you would make the buckler something like +2 mithral light fortification or death ward making the -1 to attack a bit more worthwhile. Animated shields have arcane failure and ACP as normal but do not tie up a hand for casting. Kelanen is good but check your home regions religious metaorgs before taking a non regional deity. Many regional meta-orgs offer pretty amazing access and bonuses.
Gaelforcwynd 02-21-07, 09:01 AM	If you go Mayaheine remember you only have deity weapon focus two handed .. you lose the focus when you swing it one handed as it becomes exotic. You are right about the buckler if its just a plain buckler ... but generally if you use a buckler you would make the buckler something like +2 mithral light fortification or death ward making the -1 to attack a bit more worthwhile. Animated shields have arcane failure and ACP as normal but do not tie up a hand for casting. I can always take Improved Buckler Defence later, when I can afford to pay for a decent one. Kelanen is good but check your home regions religious metaorgs before taking a non regional deity. Many regional meta-orgs offer pretty amazing access and bonuses. The bonuses for joining the Old Kerk aren't that great compared to the Non-Kerk Temples. Non-Kerk gives you access to Heavy Plate too, which I'll be wanting. So this is my idea, please correct me if I'm wrong.. Human Cleric of Kelanen (Travel/War) STR: 14(+2) - greatsword (+3 attack/ +3 damage) DEX: 10(0) - scalemail (AC 15) CON: 14(+2) - 10 HP + 7 HP/lvl INT: 10(0) - 12 ranks to start + 3 ranks/lvl WIS: 16(+3) - bonus spells up to 4th level with 2 bumps CHA: 10(0) - 3 turns + 4 turns via Extra Turning feat = 7 turns Concentration: 4 ranks Heal: 2 ranks (prerequisite for Aid Auszugen to access some good stuff) Knowledge(Religion): 4 ranks Spellcraft: 2 ranks Domain Spontaneity(War) Extra Turning Martial Weapon Proficiency(greatsword) Weapon Focus(greatsword) or.. Cleric of Olidamarra (Celerity/Trickery) Same deal but with different domains and a heavy mace and longspear instead of a greatsword. I would take Domain Spontaneity in the Celerity domain for lots of Blur and Haste. or.. Cleric of Boccob (Force/Magic,Rune or Trickery) Same as the last one but with Domain Spontaneity in the Force domain, which is quite good. Lots of Mage Armour and Magic Missile. Or lots of Invisibility etc. The Rune domain grants the Scribe Scroll feat. I would bump WIS to 18 straight off for access to a 4th level bonus spell at 8th level. I would get 5 ranks in Knowledge(Religion), at least 2 in Heal and maximise Concentration and Spellcraft. I would take Craft Wondrous Items as my next feat. I still need to look into the Innate Spell feat to see if it's worthwhile taking the Silent, Still and Quicken Spell feats. If so and I can only use it on a 1st level spell, I'd have to choose a domain with a good 1st level spell. I was also thinking of a Cleric of Ehlonna (Celerity/Plant) for some cool spell combos. What do you reckon?
ithardin 02-22-07, 10:48 AM	LGCS pg. 26 lists as "open" item found in table 7-2 of "Races of Stone." Heavy Plate is listed in that table (AND isn't an exotic armor) so anyone with the 2000gp and 100lbs to spare can get it. Ian
Gaelforcwynd 02-22-07, 09:47 PM	LGCS pg. 26 lists as "open" item found in table 7-2 of "Races of Stone." Heavy Plate is listed in that table (AND isn't an exotic armor) so anyone with the 2000gp and 100lbs to spare can get it. Ian Ah cool, thanks for pointing that out mate.
jstorrie 02-22-07, 09:56 PM	I wouldn't go with Heavy Plate unless you're aiming to a) get it in adamantine or b) starting with an 8 Dex. It's first of all very heavy, which is a pain for 14 Str character, and secondly you'll end up with lower AC in the long run because standard fullplate (or preferably mithril fullplate) allows you to get AC from gloves of dexterity. If you were playing 18 Str, 8 Dex, then adamantine heavy plate might be a good tactical decision. Otherwise save yourself the low-level gp and pick up mithril fullplate + dex gloves as you progress.
Munkwunk 02-22-07, 11:22 PM	Conversely, I am of the opinion that blowing a bunch of money on Gloves of Dex and Mithral Full Plate is pretty much worthless. At most, you'll get +3 AC out of it, and that's going to set you back, what, 45k or so? My own half-orc cleric uses heavy plate and is quite comfortable at 10 Dex. I may not be squeezing those few extra points of AC out of it, but I'm also not blowing a whole lot of money on three whole points. Granted, I have a 20 STR and I'm still at a light load while wearing the stuff. For a 14 STR cleric, you have to consider the pros and cons. Note that you can walk around carrying a heavy load and heavy plate and the penalties won't stack, but you'll have to be careful not to take any Strength damage or you're toast. IMO, there are better and cheaper ways to increase your AC before worrying about mithral full plate and Gloves of Dex +6. For starters, get your heavy plate enchanted up to +5 for a mere 25k and cast an extended magic vestment on your animated heavy shield. Grab a dusty rose ioun stone for a cool +1 insight bonus, which set you back a mere 5k. You can also start working on your Ring of Protection, though Magic Circle Against Evil is a good "dungeon buff" (10 min./level) which will give you a +2 deflection bonus against many of the creatures you'll be fighting anyway. At 11th level, I have a "walking AC" of 29. It's not quite the "APL+20" that everyone likes to talk about (though it's very close) but it also has been a cost effective andsteady progression. Most attacks miss me, but just enough land hits to make me a target that the enemy won't simply ignore and walk away from.
Gaelforcwynd 02-23-07, 04:04 AM	I wouldn't go with Heavy Plate unless you're aiming to a) get it in adamantine or b) starting with an 8 Dex. It's first of all very heavy, which is a pain for 14 Str character, and secondly you'll end up with lower AC in the long run because standard fullplate (or preferably mithril fullplate) allows you to get AC from gloves of dexterity. If you were playing 18 Str, 8 Dex, then adamantine heavy plate might be a good tactical decision. Otherwise save yourself the low-level gp and pick up mithril fullplate + dex gloves as you progress. If I decided on a deity with the Celerity domain, I might go for high DEX and use some medium armour, to benefit from the domain granted power.