Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyros_the_spawnslayer 10-31-07, 01:18 PM	After a recent convention and hearing about some of my new friend's characters I thought playing a pure-blooded suel warmage. I have his set up below to become your typical sniping warmage. Also going on with the whole sniping concept and knowing your foe I guess I can spend several skill points in a few Knowledge skills since I will only be worrying about meeting the required ranks for a feat or two. [Updated 11-1-07] Level Chart 1st – Warmage 2nd – Warmage 3rd – Warmage 4th – Warmage 5th – Warmage 6th – Warmage 7th – Warmage 8th – Warmage 9th – Warmage 10th – Warmage [I don't expect getting past this point] 11th – Warmage 12th – Warmage 13th – Warmage 14th – Warmage 15th – Warmage 16th – Warmage Feat Chart 1 – Pureblood Suel / Empower Spell 3 – Split Ray 6 – Invisible Needle 7 – Sudden Empower 9 – Rapid Metamagic 10 – Sudden Enlarge [I don't expect getting past this point] 12 – Spell Penetration 15 – Greater Spell Penetration Stat Chart Str 8 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 14 Wis 8 Cha 14
delewobmesid 10-31-07, 01:46 PM	I don't see enough meta magic early; I've regretted not taking still spell at 1st for my warmage as being able to case several extra MM at 4th level would have made surviving and playing up much easier; I wouldn't bother with the battle caster route as light armor is good enough until 8th when you can pick up mithral full plate if that is the direction you want to head; non-lethal subsitution fire is advisable as some times you want at throw a fireball in town; spell focus is nice, but the big damage spells for a warmage is the lesser orbs and orb of force which requires range tough;
kyros_the_spawnslayer 10-31-07, 01:58 PM	Well for this fellow he really won't be the blaster type. Mainly he'll wage into the frontlines after casting fist of stone and slam his way through the weaker foes. Also I am not to sure how soon I can get Mithral Fullplate in my region (Dyvers).
KarmaInferno 10-31-07, 02:29 PM	Well, there is the issue that you probably won't make it past lvl 10 before the campaign ends. :( Also, I would advise against going into melee as a warmage. Some arcane classes lend themselves to gish builds, melee-casters, but warmage isn't one of them. Not even near enough of the buffing spells that gish builds rely on, and Warmage is already a three-ability dependant class, needing Dex, Int, AND Cha. Adding melee into the mix means splitting up ability points even further, need better Str and Con. Warmages are primarily used as blasters for a reason. -karma
delewobmesid 10-31-07, 02:30 PM	As a warmage, you are artillery, not the tank (you won't have the HP to back up the battle field position); wading up to the front line is fun until apl 6 at which point your con won't keep you alive; my gnome warmage with con 18 still dies from damage when he attempts to go to the front lines playing down from lvl 10 to apl 8; burning hands or shocking grasp I find are more effective than fist of stone at lower levels for a warmage; the one time I tried using fist of stone I got stuck to an an aquatic create and went for a ride without water breathing; If the warmage is from the domain of greyhawk, you can take detect magic as a first level spell, which you'll find is important as an 'arcanist' in the party; I can't count how many times the party looked to me to detect magic and I have to say 'I'm a warmage; I don't have that spell' Warmage is a good way to learn about offensive arcane spells; it is one dimensional in the long run, but it makes combats fast as long you stick to your 'guns'.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 10-31-07, 06:08 PM	Alright so a warmage either needs to be dealing damage in a mass or sniping a foe with a ranged touch spell, that will be no problem then but the question is should I stick to warmage as far as I can take it with this character or add in a PrC?
delewobmesid 10-31-07, 06:26 PM	straight warmage unless you pick up access to a prestidge class that won't slow down your caster level. up to 4 levels of Fatespinner are also good... And most importantly, ignore the advice you don't like; I would make this character from the domain of greyhawk if you can as detect magic is that important in your role as arcane caster...
kyros_the_spawnslayer 10-31-07, 06:58 PM	Okay then I made the changes to make him more of a sniper warmage but I don't see the need of still spell, as long as your wearing light armor and a light shield there is no ASF. And I could get detect magic through eclectic learning if it seems to be that important to have.
TWG_Prometheus 10-31-07, 07:57 PM	Just to cover all of the bases, making a Gish character (Fighter/Arcane) that employs Fist of Stone is perfectly valid. Just don't try to do it with a pure Warmage. You'd need to multiclass to pull that build off.
kyros_the_spawnslayer 10-31-07, 08:50 PM	Yes I do know that, I came up with character after one of the judges talked to me about my first LG character, who was going to be a fighter with a level or two of warmage, can be quiet brutal with fist of stone. But also I was told by another game judge that with the current situation of LG ending next year, that multiclassing would just get bogged down, hence why I wanted to go with a solid warmage build. Also said that sometimes the best "PrC" is just taking more levels in your original class.
JamesMaissen 10-31-07, 10:39 PM	After a recent convention and hearing about some of my new friend's characters I thought playing a pure-blooded suel warmage. I have his set up below to become your typical sniping warmage. Stat Chart Str 8 Dex 15 Con 12 Int 14 Wis 10 Cha 15 Have you already played this character? I would not choose the stats this way. But then again I would suggest a halfling warmage over a human. Don't start with two odd stat points, don't start with less than a 14 CON, and don't overbuy Wisdom as you need all the creation points that you can muster. In other words move the points from wisdom to constitution and start with a 16 DEX or CHA and a 14 in the other stat. As to feats let me say that empower spell is essential for a warmage. If you are going to be human then point blank and precise shot will be useful for many levels. But I would suggest the following: Deep Halfling STR 6 INT 14 WIS 08 DEX 16 CON 14 CHA 16 Feats: 1st Empower Spell, 3rd Energy Substitution (pick one), 6th Nonlethal Substitution (that energy), 9th Sculpt Spell, 12th Twin Spell. If you don't care for Energy and Nonlethal sub then pick either conjuration or evocation and go with spell focus and MMSF in it. -James
kyros_the_spawnslayer 11-01-07, 12:51 AM	Well I am wanting to play this guy as a suel, and no I haven't played him yet, just getting down his mechaincs before busting him out at a convention. This past weekend I talked with the head guy there and he has a pureblood suel wizard that is played as your class pureblood, and I would like to make this guy similiar but trying to out do his suel "brother".
copperwyrmling 11-01-07, 02:59 AM	Have you already played this character? I would not choose the stats this way. But then again I would suggest a halfling warmage over a human. Don't start with two odd stat points, don't start with less than a 14 CON, and don't overbuy Wisdom as you need all the creation points that you can muster. In other words move the points from wisdom to constitution and start with a 16 DEX or CHA and a 14 in the other stat. Agreed on wisdom. On constitution... many people will say you need Con 14. It's certainly a benefit. Yet grey elf wizards get away with Con 12 and so can you, but it will influence the way you play. (I've been surprised to find that my second sorc - with Con 16 - feels far squishier than my first sorc, who had Con 12. The difference is all in playstyle.) Feats: 1st Empower Spell, 3rd Energy Substitution (pick one), 6th Nonlethal Substitution (that energy), 9th Sculpt Spell, 12th Twin Spell. If you don't care for Energy and Nonlethal sub then pick either conjuration or evocation and go with spell focus and MMSF in it. I'd try to fit in Rapid Metamagic at L9 or L12 if you get that far. For a spontaneous metamagic specialist, it's a superb feat. Metamagic School Focus would also be very good though. My first sorcerer was a Suel ray-mage who started with Str 8 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 8 Cha 16, took Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot as starting feats, and played almost like a warmage in the low-mid levels (she started with color spray and mage armor, then started accumulating ways of hurting and debuffing the bad guys: I think her first utility non-cantrips made an appearance around L7...). Her current feats (at L14) are Magical Aptitude (prereq for a prestige class), Empower Spell, Sculpt Spell, Split Ray, Quicken Spell and Rapid Metamagic. Sculpt is the one that gets used the least, but it's very useful when it comes up. The other metamagics are all solid, but Rapid Metamagic + Quicken are her favorite feats.
jstorrie 11-01-07, 04:15 AM	For sniping, you might consider something with extra damage dice–Scout 1 / Warmage 7 / Unseen Seer 7 or Scout 3 / Warmage 2 / Unseen Seer 10 work well, and give you some things to do when your blasting is inefficient or inapplicable.
magebeast 11-01-07, 10:49 AM	For sniping, you might consider something with extra damage dice–Scout 1 / Warmage 7 / Unseen Seer 7 or Scout 3 / Warmage 2 / Unseen Seer 10 work well, and give you some things to do when your blasting is inefficient or inapplicable. I think he is far more likely to run into things that aren't precision damageable than things he can't hurt with his spells.
jstorrie 11-01-07, 08:43 PM	Maybe. But a one-level scout dip is hardly going to cripple his ability to hurt things with his spells. I'd much rather see a Scout 1 / Warmage 7 / Unseen Seer 7 build than a Warmage 15 build in my party–specialization is powerful, but Warmages are just too specialized in something that's already a pretty inefficient way to win combat encounters.
Iswald 11-01-07, 10:33 PM	For sniping, you might consider something with extra damage dice–Scout 1 / Warmage 7 / Unseen Seer 7 or Scout 3 / Warmage 2 / Unseen Seer 10 work well, and give you some things to do when your blasting is inefficient or inapplicable. Do you recommend taking practiced spellcasting with these? Given that you lose one caster level for scout and another two or three for non-divination spells with unseen seer.
JamesMaissen 11-02-07, 01:56 AM	Maybe. But a one-level scout dip is hardly going to cripple his ability to hurt things with his spells. I'd much rather see a Scout 1 / Warmage 7 / Unseen Seer 7 build than a Warmage 15 build in my party–specialization is powerful, but Warmages are just too specialized in something that's already a pretty inefficient way to win combat encounters. Umm.. I would suggest the pure warmage build over it myself. Until you get rapid metamagic you are only going to benefit from skirmish when you don't need to empower something and want to be within 30 feet of it. -James
kyros_the_spawnslayer 11-02-07, 01:55 PM	I'll think I go with a straight warmage build here. Also I have updated the feat list. I put in taking invisible needle, so as long as I have a spell slot open to cast orb of force I can fire off a force dart as a standard action. I really don't plan on investing into any weapons so I make sure I got the proper spell components, good magic armor, and maybe a pair of gloves of dexterity.
RtrnofdMax 11-06-07, 11:27 AM	I put in taking invisible needle, so as long as I have a spell slot open to cast orb of force I can fire off a force dart as a standard action. Now, don't get me wrong, I really, really wanted to take a reserve feat with my warmage (especially this one since I was considering Argent Savant). But, I really don't think this is a good feat to take. Also, keep in mind that you're not going to get a better force spell till Wall of Force at 10th level using advance learning. Think about it: 1) It's Xd4 damage where X is your spell level. So you'll be doing 3-12 damage (4-13 with PBS). Not so good. 2) It's range is X*5ft where X is the spell level. So you can only fire it off from 15ft away or take a range penalty. You may not even be able to fire it from further than that since it says nothing about a range penalty. 3) It is a ranged attack, not a ranged touch attack. So with your orbs you're trying to hit touch ACs of usually around 10-14. With the needle, you're hitting their regular AC which will usually be much higher. I love the idea of this feat, but it is so weak as to be laughable. It may only be useful against incorporeals, but even then, good luck hitting them.
Nutation 11-06-07, 01:18 PM	I put in taking invisible needle, so as long as I have a spell slot open to cast orb of force I can fire off a force dart as a standard action. Reserve feats are for wizards who are afraid of running out of spells, particularly the right spell for the current situation. That doesn't describe your problem. If you want a reserve feat, take something like Blade of Force that gives you a new capability. The force effect is for the fighter standing in front of you, not for your own weapon. More likely, though, you want Rapid Metamagic earlier, then maybe Spell Focus: X and MMF, or the Spell Pen feats, or more metamagic.
Timlagor 11-07-07, 08:12 PM	Also note that Split Ray only works on rays and the vast majority of your Ranged-Touch will be Orbs. You should definitely look long and hard before turning down Nonlethal subsitution because there are a lot of occasions when you want to take prisoners. I can't imagine a LG situation where a warmage would need the Invisible Needle beyond level 5 -buy a wand of MM or lesser orb of acid if you're really worried.